Who REALLY cares about Batista?

[Slyfox696]

Please elaborate. I fail to see how seeing more negatives than positives regarding one talent in one wrestling promotion equals a total failure to understand the entire profession as a whole.

Failure to see quality in one of the best workers in wrestling indicates a lack of understanding of what qualifies a wrestler as being quality.

Really? How so? I know that you consider Cena THE best worker in WWE, if not probably one of the top 3 at least, so for this part i'm going to ask you to compare Batista's work ethic to 1) Undertaker (since you did HBK already, i'll ask you to compare Batista to the only other 18 yrs+ veteran on the roster), 2) HHH, 3) Cena and 4) Chris Jericho

HHH sucks. Throw him out, he doesn't deserve to be in a discussion of good wrestlers. Undertaker is hit or miss, just depending upon if he wants to work. And I'd say that Cena and Jericho are also top workers in the WWE.

I won't ask you to elaborate on this part, because it's your opinion and neither of us going to convince the other in that regard.

Actually, it's not my opinion, it's fact. And we know it's fact because he is one of the biggest draws in the company, which means he's one of the most entertaining guys in the company. People don't pay to see wrestlers who are boring. One look at ROH can show you that.

I'd appreciate a list of what he does that makes you want to watch.

So, whaddya say Sly?

I say you should read my other posts more carefully, as I do believe I've already answered this.

Are you capable of posting without personally insulting people?

I don't insult people, I insult comments and I insult ideas. But, I don't insult every comment or idea, just the stupid ones. Don't want me to say your comment is stupid? Then don't make a stupid comment.

Do I HAVE to do that? No, but I also don't have to wake up and go to work every morning. I don't have to eat lunch every day. I don't have have sex with my girlfriend every night. But, it just makes life so much more enjoyable when I do.

This is a serious question.

I'm always serious. Unless I'm joking.

I think you have a lot of good points to make but they tend to fall on deaf ears because you don't seem capable of just making your point.

Wait...how do my points fall on deaf ears if you acknowledge I make good points? Fail.

Instead, for some reason you decide that you need to inform everyone that if they don't agree with you then they're faulty and must be wrong.

Well, why would I lie? If you disagree with me it's because you are wrong.

Do you genuinely feel that your point of view is always superior and 100% correct or is it simply that you like to get a rise out of people?

A lot from column A and a lot from column B.

I'd love to have an actual intelligent conversation with you man but it just seems like you do everything in your power to make that into an impossible task.

No offense, but what infuriates you, and others, more than my snide comments regarding intelligence of your comments, is the fact that I'm right when I say it. And you know I'm right, and yet, you want so desperately for me to be wrong. That's why it bothers people so much. There are a ton of people on these boards who do the same thing...except they also make stupid points, so nobody takes them seriously. If I wasn't always right, you wouldn't care. It's the fact that I AM always right which is what gets you upset.

Yeah it probably is for you.

No, I think Batista is a good wrestler, thus, it can't be true for me.

However, since you criticize Batista, it's clear it's true that you don't understand wrestling.

Let's also add HHH

HHH hasn't been interesting since 2004.

HBK

...1997

Mysterio

2006

Jeff Hardy

I like Jeff Hardy and think he's underrated, but I got to ask.

If you use poor psychology and botches as criticisms against Batista, how the fuck can you say that Hardy is more entertaining? Methinks you be making a hypocrite out of yourself.

Edge

Good on the mic, terrible in the ring in any match that doesn't involve a gimmick.

The Miz

I agree he's underrated, but laugh at you if you think he's in Batista's league.

Morrison

You're kidding right?

Christian

A multi-time failure as World Champion. Not even close.

Jack Swagger

Now you're just bullshitting to waste my time.

CM Punk

If you find bland personality and a moveset poorly ripped off from signature moves from Japanese workers to be entertaining, then you prove that you don't understand wrestling.

Umaga

Quality, but not as good as Batista.

and at the rate he's going soon I'll add Jimmy Wang Yang and Funaki to this list.

Quit exaggerating. At least with your other guys someone might agree with you, albeit foolishly. With these two guys you just are making silly assertions.

No for being entertained by a bad wrestler.

Who is mega over with fans every where he goes, and has put on some of the best matches over the last couple of years.

You're not very good at this.

Are you paying attention? I said I don't like Batista.

Which means you must like watching terrible wrestlers. I didn't think this was that hard to understand.

Then I will be frank also.

Cool, then I'll be Slyfox. You're Frank, I'm Sly. It works.

Botching moves qualifies you as a bad wrestler.

Then I guess Owen Hart was a bad wrestler, since he botched the piledriver. Chris Benoit was a bad wrestler because he botched and broke Sabu's neck. The Great Sasuke was a bad wrestler because he botched a springboard.

Or maybe you just have no clue as to what makes good wrestling. Yeah, I'll go with that.

What has Batista done in the last 4 years?

Be entertaining? Put on great matches? Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

A Punajbi Prison match with The Great Khali? Having a one week title run in October?

Or his great feud with the Undertaker, his feud with Edge, carrying Smackdown for several years, his incredible match with John Cena...you know, stuff like that.

HBK is Match of the Year winner for 5 years in a row and it will be 6 after his WM 25 performance with the Undertaker.

LOL, says who? PWI magazine? Are you kidding? HBK vs. McMahon wasn't even the best match on the card...wasn't even in the Top 5 of Wrestlemania 22 (MITB, JBL vs. Benoit, Edge vs. Foley, Stratus vs. James, and Cena vs. HHH were all better). Cena vs. Batista or Cena vs. Triple H were both much better matches than Flair vs. HBK, which was a TERRIBLE match and people only care about because Flair retired from wrestling forever( wait...whoops).

HBK vs. Angle is totally overrated, and wasn't even the best match on the WM 21 card (MITB), and 2009 isn't even halfway over yet. So, basically, the only match where HBK WAS in arguably the best match, was his match against Cena, who is the best wrestler in the WWE.

Poor point.

Batista entertains simple minded people. People who understand storytelling, acting, in ring psychology, and promo skills dismiss Batista in a real discussion.

False, because unlike you, I can actually define those terms, and I see them applied to Batista in far greater ways than HBK.

Please show me your figures and show me a direct correlation between Batista, HBK, and PPV buy rates and ratings over the past 5 years,

Look at Smackdown ratings when Batista was champion and when he wasn't, and then compare that to Shawn Michaels as champion back in '96, and see who led a ratings increase, and who led a ratings decrease.

Its stupid for Batista to actually sell moves and work a match without messing up?

He does sell moves, and does work plenty of matches without messing up.

But please describe to me how that has fuck all to do with technical wrestling. Thanks.

I'm a smark because I want to watch a wrestler that can sell a move, cut a promo, perform and entertain me? Sorry fanboy, Batista is just plain not fun to watch anymore.

No, you're a smark because you DON'T want people who can do that.

If you want wrestlers who can do that stuff, then you would like Batista.

You can't tell me I'm wrong because I want to watch a wrestler who is good at what he does. You obviously don't. Batista isn't good anymore.

So, you're taking the cowards way out, and refusing to describe how you understand wrestling? Good call.

I'll tell you what, make another post full of words that say absolutely nothing original again. Those are fun. But, I'll pretty much ignore most of it, unless you answer my challenge. But, you won't, because you and I both know that you don't really know what wrestling is about. So, you hide behind your smark mentality, toss around terms you don't understand and use them to criticize one of the best workers in the WWE while simultaneously defending one of the most uninspired workers in the WWE.

And Black Snow wonders why I insult people's comments.

 

[TwistofRKO]

Anyone who criticizes Batista doesn't understand wrestling, or was touched by their father when they were little.

Or just wants to be entertained. Batista hasn't carried a show, and the WWE has been reluctant to have him carry a show for a reason. I don't like Batista, but I won't say he sucks, he just sucks to me.

Batista is one of the best workers in the WWE.

Towards, or at the bottom of the main eventers, but overall? Yes.

Recently I made a thread stating that Batista is a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels and I stand by that position.

That's not very bold. Agreed on that.

Batista is exciting, he's fun, he's entertaining,

You may think so.

and he makes people want to watch.

Not everyone.

If you don't care about Batista, it's because you just don't understand good wrestling.

That's a poor assessment.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Holy crap, I shouldnt have just left this up to Sly.

I wont go back and quote people, becuase I dont have near the paitence to waste time with usch moronic things. If you dont think Batista displays good ring phsycology, you dont understand the term. Just becuase the guy is stiff, doesnt mean he doesnt sell. He is just stiff.

If you would like to say Batista bores you, as you dont enjoy the style of match he works, then fair enough, I suppose but to say he isnt one of the best workers in the WWE is incredibly foolish.

 

[TwistofRKO]

Holy crap, I shouldnt have just left this up to Sly.

I wont go back and quote people, becuase I dont have near the paitence to waste time with usch moronic things. If you dont think Batista displays good ring phsycology, you dont understand the term. Just becuase the guy is stiff, doesnt mean he doesnt sell. He is just stiff.

If you would like to say Batista bores you, as you dont enjoy the style of match he works, then fair enough, I suppose but to say he isnt one of the best workers in the WWE is incredibly foolish.

I can agree with this. He's obviously a good worker because he couldn't main event if he wasnt. A giant push needs something behind it for it to work, so Batista had to possess something. I don't think that can be argued. I would just say he's not the best main eventer in this regard.

The second part is what I mainly agree with. Just because someone draws ratings from other people doesn't render one incompotent for not being a fan of his or enjoying his work.

 

[Slam Master]

Batista = powerslam, spinebuster, shake ropes, spear/powerbomb....every single match. Maybe a clothesline, but thats its. He's one of the least versatile guys out there. He hurts people (Cena Summerslam 2008) He's slow, and he sucks on the mic. The only thing going for him is his steroided physique. Get him out of the main event..

 

[Dave]

OMG! Why does everyone always go back to the "He only has 5 move" argument? Batista is a good superstar. The guy is huge and has a good presence in the ring. His mic skills need a bit of work but he is the first to admit it. I like Batista, I like to cheer for Batista. I think he could work as a heel or a face. Being face works better for him and I enjoy his title reigns. So if you ask me wether I care about Batista I would say yes. Yes I do. I like to see him in the ME picture and I would rather watch him than Randy Orton.

Also, I think it funny that the person who started thos thread was asking if we cared about Batista and has The Miz as his sig. The Miz is just horrible!

 

[Skillz]

Who cares about Batista? Hmm, let me think about this one. Maybe, just maybe, and I might be going out on a limb here, that the thousands of people who cheer loudly for Batista every week on Raw, the fans who consistently give him one of the top three pops of the night, perhaps they are the ones that care about him?

Just because he doesn't fit the ridiculous IWC mentality that the only good wrestlers are technical wrestlers, doesn't mean he isn't a good wrestler. A good wrestler is one that plays his character well, can connect with the crowd, and can tell a good story in the ring. Batista does this better than just about everyone in the business not named John Cena.

Batista is one of the biggest draws the WWE has had in the past 5 years. That means people pay to see him. That must mean he is entertaining, because why would people pay to see someone that they don't find entertaining? So, for the people who find him boring and think he sucks, your opinions are worthless. One opinion can be better than another, and it just so happens that for Batista fans, our opinions are backed up by logic and an understanding of what wrestling is about. For Batista haters, your opinions are based on a faulty understanding of what wrestling is about.

 

[Big Sexy]

As far as Batista goes he's not one of my favorites, but to say he sucks and no one cares about him is ignorant. If that was the case then he wouldn't be a main eventer. He puts on very good matches, is decent on the mic, and he's a lot better then the majority of the guys on the WWE roster.

 

[X]

Batista is about as bland and untalented as wrestlers come. He is exhibit A of muscled jocks with no wrestling talent or charisma being hired purely off of their physical looks. I'm not saying physical looks shouldn't come into play, of course they should when hiring an entertainer for an international television show. But you should probably also have the ability to mix some variation into your in-ring skills, as well as being able to talk on the microphone without sounding like an idiot.

Of course fans love him--- not to hate on our own kind, but the majority of wrestling fans I meet and see are morons, or little kids, or women who like him because he has big muscles. Or a combination of those three.

It won't be long before Batista fades away, a few years and he'll be lucky to get a midcard pop I think.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I agree with Sly here. I don't want to see Batista ever even think about jumping off the top rope or laying on the mat trying thirty variation of the arm bar. He is a body builder with a mean streak. His gimmick determines his moveset. He picks you up and throws you down. Then he hits you, then he picks you up and throws you.

What do you guys want from him? He's not going to do planchas. He's not going to do a shooting star press. I understand that the IWC's vision of a wrestler is Evan Bourne, but seriously, that guy is nothing more than an epileptic monkey.

Let's examine Batista.

Selling: He remembers which part of his body has been worked on. To contrast that, watch an HBK match. He gets out of a figure four and holds his back. The announces constantly cover for him by mentioning his history of back injuries. Batista never has a miracle comebacks. He never "hulks up" or finds the energy to do some kind of flipping move. His comebacks are always about punching a guy until he falls, taking a break, then trying a power move. Cena, Hogan, even The Undertaker, get beat up and then throw someone across the ring. Batista makes his comebacks look more realistic, which is the goal of the in-ring product.

Storytelling: This goes along with selling, but adds his offense to it. Every move Batista does focuses on the head and back because his finisher is a powerbomb. He sets it up by knocking the wind out of his opponent with a spear. This leaves his opponent dazed and gasping, and then he gets them into the powerbomb. Contrasting this, most of the top guys finishers come out of nowhere. I am tired of watching HBK get beat up for half an hour and then with a superkick. Whoopty fucking doo. You got lucky that landed. Batista's wins look earned, which is part of the reason the crowd loves him. He looks like he scratched tooth and nail for his wins. HBK wins matches just like heel Edge does, out of nowhere.

Promos: I don't see how people think his promos are so bad. He was brought in as an enforcer, not a poet. He is one of the only guys who booking has been consistent since he started. He was hired muscle, he branched out on his own. He speaks very softly in his promos with an attitude that he has nothing to prove. Once again, this is his character. He does his talking in the ring. His promos are watchable to an audience, and the style is integral to his character. What the fuck do you want him to do? Do you want him to rap like Cena? Should he end every sentence with Brotha!?! Should he give long rants with esoteric references to ancient warrior cults? Fuck no! He should talk like he's a big fucking dude who has better things to do that match wits with a psychotic jackass like Orton. He says what needs to be said, and then moves on.

Character: Once again, he is consistently booked. There is never any doubting what his position is. Guys like Edge try to be cool. HBK tries to be funny, but they mix heelish tactics with face-like pandering. Either guy could turn, and we would never know. Jericho, Batista, Punk, Orton, Rey, and Cena are the only guys who could have shocking turns. Undertaker is nothing but a heel that is cheered. Batista is an honorable loner who questions friendships because HHH burned him before. This is what wrestling used to be. Guys would play the same character for years because there wasn't enough TV to alert everyone to what they were this week. He is a throwback to the old Southern heroes who went about their business, signed some autographs, then got back on the road to do it again. People identify with him. Everyone has been burned by friends, everyone gets tired of a lunatic ranting at work, everyone would love to just throw their hands up and fight instead of talking for hours about an issue that can only be resolved in one way.

Match history: Match of the Year 2007. He is the only person to ever get a good match out of Khali (Punjabi Prison). He stole the show with Cena at SummerSlam. He and Undertaker put on an epic match at the end of 2007 on SD! That's a lot of quality matches for a guy who sucks.

 

[Suneeboy]

Failure to see quality in one of the best workers in wrestling indicates a lack of understanding of what qualifies a wrestler as being quality.

HHH sucks. Throw him out, he doesn't deserve to be in a discussion of good wrestlers. Undertaker is hit or miss, just depending upon if he wants to work. And I'd say that Cena and Jericho are also top workers in the WWE.

Actually, it's not my opinion, it's fact. And we know it's fact because he is one of the biggest draws in the company, which means he's one of the most entertaining guys in the company. People don't pay to see wrestlers who are boring. One look at ROH can show you that.

I say you should read my other posts more carefully, as I do believe I've already answered this.

I don't insult people, I insult comments and I insult ideas. But, I don't insult every comment or idea, just the stupid ones. Don't want me to say your comment is stupid? Then don't make a stupid comment.

Do I HAVE to do that? No, but I also don't have to wake up and go to work every morning. I don't have to eat lunch every day. I don't have have sex with my girlfriend every night. But, it just makes life so much more enjoyable when I do.

I'm always serious. Unless I'm joking.

Wait...how do my points fall on deaf ears if you acknowledge I make good points? Fail.

Well, why would I lie? If you disagree with me it's because you are wrong.

A lot from column A and a lot from column B.

No offense, but what infuriates you, and others, more than my snide comments regarding intelligence of your comments, is the fact that I'm right when I say it. And you know I'm right, and yet, you want so desperately for me to be wrong. That's why it bothers people so much. There are a ton of people on these boards who do the same thing...except they also make stupid points, so nobody takes them seriously. If I wasn't always right, you wouldn't care. It's the fact that I AM always right which is what gets you upset.

No, I think Batista is a good wrestler, thus, it can't be true for me.

However, since you criticize Batista, it's clear it's true that you don't understand wrestling.

HHH hasn't been interesting since 2004.

...1997

2006

I like Jeff Hardy and think he's underrated, but I got to ask.

If you use poor psychology and botches as criticisms against Batista, how the fuck can you say that Hardy is more entertaining? Methinks you be making a hypocrite out of yourself.

Good on the mic, terrible in the ring in any match that doesn't involve a gimmick.

I agree he's underrated, but laugh at you if you think he's in Batista's league.

You're kidding right?

A multi-time failure as World Champion. Not even close.

Now you're just bullshitting to waste my time.

If you find bland personality and a moveset poorly ripped off from signature moves from Japanese workers to be entertaining, then you prove that you don't understand wrestling.

Quality, but not as good as Batista.

Quit exaggerating. At least with your other guys someone might agree with you, albeit foolishly. With these two guys you just are making silly assertions.

Who is mega over with fans every where he goes, and has put on some of the best matches over the last couple of years.

You're not very good at this.

Which means you must like watching terrible wrestlers. I didn't think this was that hard to understand.

Cool, then I'll be Slyfox. You're Frank, I'm Sly. It works.

Then I guess Owen Hart was a bad wrestler, since he botched the piledriver. Chris Benoit was a bad wrestler because he botched and broke Sabu's neck. The Great Sasuke was a bad wrestler because he botched a springboard.

Or maybe you just have no clue as to what makes good wrestling. Yeah, I'll go with that.

Be entertaining? Put on great matches? Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

Or his great feud with the Undertaker, his feud with Edge, carrying Smackdown for several years, his incredible match with John Cena...you know, stuff like that.

LOL, says who? PWI magazine? Are you kidding? HBK vs. McMahon wasn't even the best match on the card...wasn't even in the Top 5 of Wrestlemania 22 (MITB, JBL vs. Benoit, Edge vs. Foley, Stratus vs. James, and Cena vs. HHH were all better). Cena vs. Batista or Cena vs. Triple H were both much better matches than Flair vs. HBK, which was a TERRIBLE match and people only care about because Flair retired from wrestling forever( wait...whoops).

HBK vs. Angle is totally overrated, and wasn't even the best match on the WM 21 card (MITB), and 2009 isn't even halfway over yet. So, basically, the only match where HBK WAS in arguably the best match, was his match against Cena, who is the best wrestler in the WWE.

Poor point.

False, because unlike you, I can actually define those terms, and I see them applied to Batista in far greater ways than HBK.

Look at Smackdown ratings when Batista was champion and when he wasn't, and then compare that to Shawn Michaels as champion back in '96, and see who led a ratings increase, and who led a ratings decrease.

He does sell moves, and does work plenty of matches without messing up.

But please describe to me how that has fuck all to do with technical wrestling. Thanks.

No, you're a smark because you DON'T want people who can do that.

If you want wrestlers who can do that stuff, then you would like Batista.

So, you're taking the cowards way out, and refusing to describe how you understand wrestling? Good call.

I'll tell you what, make another post full of words that say absolutely nothing original again. Those are fun. But, I'll pretty much ignore most of it, unless you answer my challenge. But, you won't, because you and I both know that you don't really know what wrestling is about. So, you hide behind your smark mentality, toss around terms you don't understand and use them to criticize one of the best workers in the WWE while simultaneously defending one of the most uninspired workers in the WWE.

And Black Snow wonders why I insult people's comments.

You may think you're funny and clever, but when you look past your sarcasm and your 1995 AOL Chat Room Wit your comments on this topic are just ridiculous. You just rambled on and on but didn't actually say anything of relevance. You can't make a point by issuing a challenge on someone's understanding of wrestling, especially when you've shown nothing in this thread that qualifies anyone to present anything to you for validation. I see you like to entertain on forums, so I will let you continue. I actually enjoy it, so please continue to dance for us and keep us entertained.

Now to those who actually stayed on topic. Where were we? Oh yeah....Batista is shit, he is the worst main eventer in the WWE, and the worst in the past 5 years after Khali. He gets pops out of respect for when he was good. He's not good anymore. Drop him to the mid-card or let him go. He'll retire in a year or so or most likely get injured soon again anyway so at least we don't have to see too much of him.

 

[Big Sexy]

Now to those who actually stayed on topic. Where were we? Oh yeah....Batista is shit,

Not really

he is the worst main eventer in the WWE, and the worst in the past 5 years after Khali.

Batista is far from the worst main eventer. That honor belongs to the Big Show with Jeff Hardy as a close second.

He gets pops out of respect for when he was good.

Well he must be good all the time then because gets one of the biggest pops out of anyone in the WWE every time he sets foot in the ring.

He's not good anymore.

So now you're saying that he was once good but now he sucks. If anything Batista has only gotten better every year he's been in the WWE.

Drop him to the mid-card or let him go.

Great idea. Let's take one of our more popular superstars who is making us money and take him out of the main event. What a great business decision.

 

[TwistofRKO]

I don't think everyone is arguing the same thing. The typical arguement against Batista may involve critique of his moveset, but that hasn't really been an issue brought to the table here.

He has an established character, and it's worked because Batista has been capable of selling it to the fans. But that doesn't make anyone wrong for growing tired of him, or thinking he's boring. My problem with his promos is that he does try to be funny, that's the point. He isn't natural at all anymore. He's obviously not gifted in the department, but never has he been this bad, and was always passible because you got what you expected.

To say he's not a good worker, or he's one of the worst guys on the roster is wrong, but for someone to express their lack of entertainment from Batista is completely acceptable as it is for someone not to be entertained by Jeff Hardy, Triple H, John Cena, or Randy Orton. You cant force or fault people by not being entertained by what everyone else is. That's why they have different characters.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Failure to see quality in one of the best workers in wrestling indicates a lack of understanding of what qualifies a wrestler as being quality.

Well, i can see why people like him, but his work simply doesn't do it for me. Does this still mean i don't understand wrestling?

HHH sucks.

True, but i thought it only fair as he's at the top of the WWE food chain. I've hated HHH since he became a Main Eventer, but with the exception of his selling and his face promos, he's got all the bases covered

Undertaker is hit or miss, just depending upon if he wants to work.

Do you really think that Taker has that kind of attitude? More specifically, do you think he has that attitude now, as in since he came back as the Deadman? Lord of Darkness Taker always came across like he couldn't care less, Bad Ass Taker looked like he was being himself more than he was working, and Big Evil was the same except his promos were better, but since his '04 return, i can't honestly think of any Taker matches where the match was THAT bad (except the Khali matches but that's to be expected tbh), and if it did, it wasn't because Taker couldn't be bothered.

And I'd say that Cena and Jericho are also top workers in the WWE.

Agreed.

Actually, it's not my opinion, it's fact. And we know it's fact because he is one of the biggest draws in the company, which means he's one of the most entertaining guys in the company.

The only fact is that he's one of the biggest draws. You said he's entertaining, exciting etc etc, which is an opinion that you obviously share with the majority of the WWE Universe, but that still doesn't make it a fact. Thousands of fans find Batista exciting and entertaining to watch, which in fact makes him one of the biggest draws in WWE.

People don't pay to see wrestlers who are boring. One look at ROH can show you that.

Yeah but they don't pay to see everyone on the card either do they? No one goes to watch everyone from Batista and Cena all the way down to Chavo and Regal do they? And on the other hand, i doubt anyone paid £40 to see JUST Batista and no one else.

I didn't pay to go to Raw last month to see Batista powerbomb Chavo twice and then do a run in at the end of the show. I paid for Jericho and Orton and both of their matches delivered. I didn't pay to watch Rey Mysterio kick the Big Show a few times and then get punched in the face while he was cradled like a baby, but i bet the majority of that audience paid for Rey. I didn't pay to watch Kane job to CM Punk and having to retape the ending, but again, the majority of that audience paid for Punk.

My point, is that you can't say, 'Batista must be entertaining because people wouldn't pay to see him otherwise' because the people who paid probably didn't pay JUST to see him, and i'm sure there would have been people who would've been happier without him on the card at all.

I say you should read my other posts more carefully, as I do believe I've already answered this.

Yeah, but i wanted more details. Plus, i haven't read what else you and suneeboy have said since my original post.

Basically, here are my main problems with Batista:

1) His in ring work is nothing special. Watching him in the ring is not really much different from watching Kane circa 2003, while being better than modern day Kane, it's still not great (ironically the two tend to have very good matches together).

2) Why can he never be beaten these days? The guy can't lose a match unless he's counted out or gang raped by like 5 guys. Otherwise, he gets a DQ win and pulls that stupid 'WTF? How did this happen?' look. What is the deal with that?

Obviously who he beats and who he loses to is not up to him, but would it hurt for him to be pinned at least once in 2009, without someone hitting him in the head on the outside or the ref being a twat? How can a guy who is portrayed as being dumb muscle never be outmanoeurved or simply outwrestled?

3) You've heard one Batista promo, you've heard them all. He, much like John Cena, is a stuck record.

4) People say he gets huge pops. Randy Orton and Edge get huge pops as well, what's your point? Kane gets pops just because he's been there for so long. Jericho insults the fans every week without fail and people STILL chant 'Y2J'. Somebody earlier in this thread said Batista doesn't get boo'ed. I distinctly remember him getting boo's at Judgment Day as he was preparing for the Batista Bomb. He even said 'fuck you' to one of the fans at ringside before he did the rope down. Santino doesn't get boo'ed, does that make him one of WWE's greatest workers or a top draw?

There's some kind of weird ass revolution going on amongst the fans at the moment. There's the group of fans who are happy to move on and accept the direction that WWE is going with its top talent, and then there's the fans who wish we were still in the Attitude Era, and want their heroes to lust for blood, cripple their opponents and destroy each others property.

With this weird flux in amongst the fans, i wouldn't say it's fair to use pops as a measure of success.

5) I don't feel he could successfully pull off a long standing fued like HBK and Y2J did last year. His longest fued was what, 3 months at the most? His HHH title fued in '05 and his title fued with Edge in '07. Based on that, i'd have to describe Batista as a novelty act who's novelty is sorely overused by WWE. If he's not getting repeated title shots in succession, he's usually doing nothing or has a 3 week fued with someone like Umaga and then the cycle starts again.

Your thoughts Sly?

 

[Hero]

You may think you're funny and clever, but when you look past your sarcasm and your 1995 AOL Chat Room Wit your comments on this topic are just ridiculous. You just rambled on and on but didn't actually say anything of relevance. You can't make a point by issuing a challenge on someone's understanding of wrestling, especially when you've shown nothing in this thread that qualifies anyone to present anything to you for validation. I see you like to entertain on forums, so I will let you continue. I actually enjoy it, so please continue to dance for us and keep us entertained.

Now to those who actually stayed on topic. Where were we? Oh yeah....Batista is shit, he is the worst main eventer in the WWE, and the worst in the past 5 years after Khali. He gets pops out of respect for when he was good. He's not good anymore. Drop him to the mid-card or let him go. He'll retire in a year or so or most likely get injured soon again anyway so at least we don't have to see too much of him.

The only reason you think Sly was off-topic is because you're clearly either unable to understand that he has you completely covered by all bases, or that you're just in denial. Fact is that everything that can be said in this thread already has been. You're just burying your head in the sand and choosing to ignore it. You back your opinion up by just saying he's shit over and over again. Others back up their opinions with facts. Others are winning.

Though, I guess based on this last post, you're going by the system that posting any facts to back up your evidence is off-topic, and therefore spam.

 

[pyrusane]

Ah, I do so love to watch a good debate.

Personally, I'm not a huge Batista fan. I don't think he's shit, I don't think he's a bad wrestler, matter of fact I think he is quite good at playing his role and doing what he does. It just happens that he kinda bores me. He obviously doesn't bore the majority of fans, because they freaking love this guy.

Comparing Batista to Warrior is just stupid. Yes, they have similar movesets. Yes, they have similar physiques. You know who else had similar movesets and physiques? Shawn Michaels and Marty Janetty. Think about that for a second. You can love HBK or hate him, but its undeniable that he has had a far better career and a far bigger impact than Janetty. The last impact Janetty made was on that Barber Shop window.

Warrior had absolutely no understanding of ring psychology, of pacing a match, or of how to cut an understandable promo. Batista may cut boring promo's, but at the end of it you damn well know what he meant to say. He knows how to work the timing of a match, and he knows how to tell a story in the ring.

I also find it somewhat silly to compare Batista to HBK. Two totally different styles, and really, c'mon, one guy has been at the top for over a decade, been in the business for over twenty years, and I honestly believe just goes out to the ring now to have fun doing what he does. The other guy treats it as exactly what it is for him...his job. He goes out there to take care of business, then goes home (or to the next hotel room) at the end of the day. Regardless of what you, or I, or anyone else here thinks of either one of these guys, the fact remains that the majority of wrestling fans, the ones that buy the tickets and order the PPVs, love both of them.

The question was is it time for Batista to exit the main event scene. Well, if the general public likes seeing him there, and still pops huge for him every time he makes an appearance, then the answer is fairly obviously no, it isn't. To argue otherwise, and to argue it so vehemently, is really just verbal *********ion.

 

[kurtisraw07]

I don't really have anything intellectual to say but I'll give my opinion. I don't like Batista because he's basically portrayed as someone who could win a "Entire Raw Lockerroom vs Batista" handicap match. How lame is that. Hell he basically squashes everyone who gets in the ring with him. I also find it to be bullshit that he is the face in the Orton feud. Yea I know Orton attacked and took out the McMahon family (since when was that a heel thing) and broke Shanes ankle but come on. Orton has been through hell in kayfabe. I mean he rightfully and cleanly won the World Title and was cowardly attacked by Batista and thrown out of Evolution. By all rights, Orton should be cheered even if he were to hit Batista in the nads with a sledgehammer. Yes I know this is all kayfabe, but it makes sense from a real life point of view. It's also fun to think back to a time when a one legged Goldberg kicked Batista's big dumb ass. Orton should've been portrayed as a face this whole time, and the whole attacking of Steph could've been lowered to a few consectutive weeks of RKOs. That way it would be more akin to that of Austin stunning people so it wouldn't be so barbaric in the sense of man on woman violence. It could've been portrayed as Orton getting his revenge against Triple H for all that bullshit. Batista could've been portrayed as secretly selfishly just wanting the title and it could've been revealed that Batista was always jealous of Orton. Well now I'm just rambling about a bunch of speculative what if shit which I apologize for. My main point being, I just don't get the logic of Orton being the bitch in this feud, when it was Batista who fucked over Orton years ago.

 

[hater]

Half of you aren't even old enough to remember when HBK started. How you can compare someone who has done it well for over 20 years(longer than most of you have been alive) to someone who has been average for his 6-7 year exsistance? As far as spam goes, fry it up, add mustard and it's actually not bad.Batista does get a good pop when he enters the arena. I think it has more to do with the heels he is working with . When he had his Wrestlemania match with Umaga a couple of years ago, his pop wasn't that great. He is just a big, boring(IMO), guy,that happens to be the only main eventer left besides Cena right now to challenge Orton. All of you have valid points. His moveset is what it can be for a 6"5 300 lb. man. How many other guys of that size do you remember being chain wrestlers or high flyers? And don't come back with Kane(one clothesline?) or the Undertaker(the rope walking is not as hard as it used to be). I personally hate Batista, but Vince loves the muscle freaks, and the crowd eats it up. Other than his match with Cena at SummerSlam(which stole the show) he hasn't had a memorable one after 2005.(IMO) By the way, I respect Cena for what he gives in the ring, Ijust need a little more out of my wrestlers than 4-5 moves.(fireman's carry into a slam: even 8 year olds can take that and get up) I miss the days of Angle,Benoit(crazy,motherfucker),Guerrerro,Malenko.

 

[Slyfox696]

You may think you're funny and clever

The fact that you pick up funny and clever from my serious posts tells me that I probably am funny and clever.

but when you look past your sarcasm and your 1995 AOL Chat Room Wit

I didn't post in AOL Chat Rooms in '95.

your comments on this topic are just ridiculous.

If by ridiculous you mean, "ridiculously accurate", then I agree.

You just rambled on and on but didn't actually say anything of relevance.

Really? Mentioning impressive feuds and matches isn't relevant? Explaining what quality is in wrestling isn't relevant? Proving that Batista is one of the best workers in the WWE by showing how he is superior to other guys isn't relevant?

Please tell me what is relevant then, because I thought the whole purpose of this thread was to discuss the quality of Batista. And if it is, then my post was VERY relevant.

You can't make a point by issuing a challenge on someone's understanding of wrestling

And YOU still won't define wrestling...and I think we both know why. You don't know.

especially when you've shown nothing in this thread that qualifies anyone to present anything to you for validation.

Sure I have...

I always thought that wrestling was supposed to be about larger than life characters, going out in front of a live audience and entertaining them and exciting them by doing the job they are booked to do, and to do it well over a period of time so people will pay to see you do it. That describes Batista.

That's from earlier in this thread. Perhaps you should actually read the thread?

I see you like to entertain on forums, so I will let you continue. I actually enjoy it, so please continue to dance for us and keep us entertained.

Ooooh, you're so wicked and manipulative. What the hell was I thinking even talking to you? Oooh!

Now to those who actually stayed on topic. Where were we? Oh yeah....Batista is shit

No, he's not, he's quite good.

he is the worst main eventer in the WWE

That goes to guys like Jack Swagger, Christian, Kane and Shawn Michaels.

He gets pops out of respect for when he was good.

Batista is better now than he has ever been in his career. Your lack of wrestling knowledge and comprehension cracks me up.

Well, i can see why people like him, but his work simply doesn't do it for me. Does this still mean i don't understand wrestling?

Not necessarily. I've never been a fan of Rey Mysterio, but for a long time he was one of the best workers in the WWE. I think he's taken a step back since his return from injuries but he was very good.

As long as you're not saying his in-ring work is poor, then you're fine. Saying it doesn't appeal to you is one thing, saying it sucks is different.

Do you really think that Taker has that kind of attitude?

I was referring more to the fact that the guy only works about half the year.

The only fact is that he's one of the biggest draws. You said he's entertaining, exciting etc etc, which is an opinion that you obviously share with the majority of the WWE Universe, but that still doesn't make it a fact. Thousands of fans find Batista exciting and entertaining to watch, which in fact makes him one of the biggest draws in WWE.

The fact that he IS one of the biggest draws is what proves he's entertaining. People don't pay money to see someone that isn't entertaining.

Yeah but they don't pay to see everyone on the card either do they? No one goes to watch everyone from Batista and Cena all the way down to Chavo and Regal do they? And on the other hand, i doubt anyone paid £40 to see JUST Batista and no one else.

I didn't pay to go to Raw last month to see Batista powerbomb Chavo twice and then do a run in at the end of the show. I paid for Jericho and Orton and both of their matches delivered. I didn't pay to watch Rey Mysterio kick the Big Show a few times and then get punched in the face while he was cradled like a baby, but i bet the majority of that audience paid for Rey. I didn't pay to watch Kane job to CM Punk and having to retape the ending, but again, the majority of that audience paid for Punk.

My point, is that you can't say, 'Batista must be entertaining because people wouldn't pay to see him otherwise' because the people who paid probably didn't pay JUST to see him, and i'm sure there would have been people who would've been happier without him on the card at all.

No, with the exception of John Cena, there's probably no one in the WWE that people pay just to see by themselves. However, cards that feature Batista do better than ones that don't. And that's the point. If you could have Batista in the main-event or Punk in the main-event, the one with Batista will sell better than the one with Punk.

Yeah, but i wanted more details. Plus, i haven't read what else you and suneeboy have said since my original post.

Basically, here are my main problems with Batista:

1) His in ring work is nothing special. Watching him in the ring is not really much different from watching Kane circa 2003, while being better than modern day Kane, it's still not great (ironically the two tend to have very good matches together).

His in-ring work is very solid. He plays his character remarkably, he has good power offense, and he lights up a crowd when he's in there. That's the mark of a good wrestler.

2) Why can he never be beaten these days? The guy can't lose a match unless he's counted out or gang raped by like 5 guys. Otherwise, he gets a DQ win and pulls that stupid 'WTF? How did this happen?' look. What is the deal with that?

You'd have to take that up with the booking committee. You can't criticize Batista for the booking he receives.

3) You've heard one Batista promo, you've heard them all. He, much like John Cena, is a stuck record.

If you've heard one face promo, you've heard them all. If you've heard one Steve Austin interview, you've heard them all. If you've heard one heel promo, you've heard them all.

The only person in the history of wrestling to be unique in his promos was the Rock.

4) People say he gets huge pops. Randy Orton and Edge get huge pops as well, what's your point? Kane gets pops just because he's been there for so long. Jericho insults the fans every week without fail and people STILL chant 'Y2J'. Somebody earlier in this thread said Batista doesn't get boo'ed. I distinctly remember him getting boo's at Judgment Day as he was preparing for the Batista Bomb. He even said 'fuck you' to one of the fans at ringside before he did the rope down. Santino doesn't get boo'ed, does that make him one of WWE's greatest workers or a top draw?

They don't pop for those guys like they do for Batista. But, look at the main-event guys you named there. Wouldn't you say that most of them are solid workers?

There's some kind of weird ass revolution going on amongst the fans at the moment. There's the group of fans who are happy to move on and accept the direction that WWE is going with its top talent, and then there's the fans who wish we were still in the Attitude Era, and want their heroes to lust for blood, cripple their opponents and destroy each others property.

With this weird flux in amongst the fans, i wouldn't say it's fair to use pops as a measure of success.

The Attitude fans should just go away. The Attitude had NOTHING to do with wrestling.

5) I don't feel he could successfully pull off a long standing fued like HBK and Y2J did last year.

Sure he could. He could do it the same way Y2J and HBK did...with good writing and creative booking....and a lack of injuries.

The only reason you think Sly was off-topic is because you're clearly either unable to understand that he has you completely covered by all bases, or that you're just in denial. Fact is that everything that can be said in this thread already has been. You're just burying your head in the sand and choosing to ignore it. You back your opinion up by just saying he's shit over and over again. Others back up their opinions with facts. Others are winning.

Though, I guess based on this last post, you're going by the system that posting any facts to back up your evidence is off-topic, and therefore spam.

Good point.

Half of you aren't even old enough to remember when HBK started.

But I am though.

How you can compare someone who has done it well for over 20 years(longer than most of you have been alive) to someone who has been average for his 6-7 year exsistance?

I take exception with two things there.

1) No one is saying that Batista is better than HBK was at his best. I'm saying he's better than HBK that wrestles now.

2) Batista has continued to get better every year he works, with the exception of 2006 (which I think was due more to injuries than anything else), and has surpassed averaged and moved on to very good.

As for the rest of your post, which talks about moves, and stuff...moves have nothing to do with being a good wrestler. The great wrestlers could only use three moves in a match, and tear the house down.

 

[Davey McBoy]

If I may toss this in, I think Batista was pushed wrong and too early. Same old story with big guys. He had heat and he was getting over as a monster heel. Seems like when the brass ring was presented to him either Vince or Dave decided to go all cutesy with the character and try to create the next Rock. Bad idea for a bodybuilder like he was. There was money there in giving Batista the Kane push and not fucking it up. An extra year as a heel dominating everyone and rarely speaking could have done him the world of good and made his main event push more sucessful, but it turned out to be lukewarm and thats how I saw him for a few years.

He has paid his dues though and is far better in the ring than people make him out to be. A guy like him needs to protect his body as much as possible and he needs to avoid over exposure. There aren't many big guys who know what they are doing in the ring and with so many top guys out for the forseeable I trust they'll use Batista to his fullest potential over the summer.

 

[2012isbs]

Every mark and half the smarks. I'm not a big fan of him but, I can see why peolpe like him. He can put on a decent match was part of the best NWO ripoff had epic Hiac matches with HHH and Taker. He loves teh fans is a pretty nice guy from what I can gather. Also batista is fucking 40 so he's pretty good for a 40 year old. Also I liked him the first few matches i saw him. For peple that complain about him always getting the gold look at him, he is jacked and a main evneter it just wouldn't make sense for him to not be No. 1 contender, in a major feud, or Champ.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

As long as you're not saying his in-ring work is poor, then you're fine. Saying it doesn't appeal to you is one thing, saying it sucks is different.

Well i never complained back in the day about Austin and Foley, so it would be hypocritical to do it for Batista now. That means i have to wait about 5 years after Batista is retired before i can do that, lol.

I was referring more to the fact that the guy only works about half the year.

That's fair enough, although i stand by my view that if they put him in less gimmick matches, he wouldn't take so much time off. Out of maybe 8 PPV appearances, 5 of them are usually in gimmick matches of some kind, 1 of which is always HIAC and another is always EC considering that he's been in both of the last two since it became a NWO tradition.

No, with the exception of John Cena, there's probably no one in the WWE that people pay just to see by themselves. However, cards that feature Batista do better than ones that don't. And that's the point. If you could have Batista in the main-event or Punk in the main-event, the one with Batista will sell better than the one with Punk.

Yes that's true. The only counter argument i could think of (and i might not be right anyway), is that the RAW ratings didn't improve between his return the night after Mania, and Judgment Day. They didn't improve until Ric Flair cropped up....... A-GAIN! So, in that 2 month period, Batista hadn't benefitted Raw at all. But yeah Batista>Punk

His in-ring work is very solid. He plays his character remarkably, he has good power offense, and he lights up a crowd when he's in there. That's the mark of a good wrestler.

I'd say the same for his ring work, but like i say, it doesn't really appeal to me. His character to me seems like it's simply him. Not him with the volume turned up like they used to say about Austin and Rock, but just him, and i just struggle to find a reason to care.

You'd have to take that up with the booking committee. You can't criticize Batista for the booking he receives.

Yeah, but what i was really getting at is the way his matches end. I mean did Randy and Dave sit down with Vince Sunday, and Vince said to them:

"Ok guys, i want you to go for about 20 minutes, mostly with Randy kicking your ass Dave. Around the 14 minute mark Randy, i want you to signify that you're going for a punt, and then Dave you spear him and then Randy you spend the next 5 minutes running away. Dave counter a couple of RKOs and then Randy, you slap the ref, because that ending worked soooooo well last time, and then Cody and Ted run in, then Ric runs in and that's it."

Actually now i think about it, that probably IS what happened.

I've never been certain, but do the talent decide the end of a match or the bookers? I always thought the bookers said, 'you lose and you win after he comes out and hits you' and the rest was arranged by the talent and the talent only?

If you've heard one face promo, you've heard them all. If you've heard one Steve Austin interview, you've heard them all. If you've heard one heel promo, you've heard them all.

I dunno dude. Sometimes the character and the situation in the storyline can affect the promos. But then i guess when all you do is chase the title or retaliate at sneak attacks, then you're limited to what you can say.

They don't pop for those guys like they do for Batista. But, look at the main-event guys you named there. Wouldn't you say that most of them are solid workers?

All except Orton yeah.

The Attitude fans should just go away. The Attitude had NOTHING to do with wrestling.

But nearly everything to do with the promos. Plus i don't think we'd have had so much going on in the lower mid card if the 'Attitude' hadn't come around. Think of all the jobbers and loveable losers that wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds in WWE if they hadn't had things like the Hardcore Title? Crash and Hardcore Holly, Al Snow and God knows how many ex-ECW talent would have really struggled without that, for instance.

Sure he could. He could do it the same way Y2J and HBK did...with good writing and creative booking....and a lack of injuries.

Ah, so that's where the problem lies. I'm unconvinced but would happily sit down and watch to be proven wrong. I just doubt we'll ever get the chance. Right now on Raw, who's he got to do that with?

 

[Suneeboy]

The only reason you think Sly was off-topic is because you're clearly either unable to understand that he has you completely covered by all bases, or that you're just in denial. Fact is that everything that can be said in this thread already has been. You're just burying your head in the sand and choosing to ignore it. You back your opinion up by just saying he's shit over and over again. Others back up their opinions with facts. Others are winning.

Though, I guess based on this last post, you're going by the system that posting any facts to back up your evidence is off-topic, and therefore spam.

Dude have you read half of the posts in this thread? Obviously not. The points were made long ago. The discussion has now has come down to who understands wrestling or some other bullshit that really has nothing to do with Batista.

No one's ignoring anything, so take the time to actually read if that's not too hard to do for you before you start saying what I do or do not understand.

Others are winning? Uhm is this a wrestling match or a conversation? Do we get prizes for winning? Get your head out of your ass and come to real world. This is an internet discussion forum and we are all on here just talking shit basically. Nothing comes from it, and nothing can come from it. Its all anonymous. The fact that you collate winning with anything on this forum says that you have way too much time on your hands and use that time to over analyze forum culture and posting.

Now since the thread has become long (which actually is a good thing ) I will restate a point.

Batista rose to prominence when he had his face turn and went over HHH at WM 21. He became a huge draw and had some decent matches albeit quite forgettable in my eyes, and in the eyes of many hardcore fans. Between Wrestlemania 21 to now he has missed significant time at least 3 times (I don't have the exact number), has missed 2 Wrestlemania's. Injuries are no fault of his own however they do change the complexion of a career. Batista's in ring skills leave a lot to be desired. Of course he is not supposed to be technical like Benoit or Angle, etc. however he is supposed to exhibit in ring "technique", which he hasn't shown since his match with Taker at WM 23 on a consistent basis.

Remember the original point of the thread is who really cares about Batista (the character)? Don't equate that with a hard working man, which I have no choice but to respect. Being taken off topic with the pointless bantering calls for the point to be restated.

Let's do a quick run down of his feuds since WM 23 when he lost the strap to Taker and then see if he is as good as some claim. (Using Wikipedia to refresh my memory on the last 3 years of this boring character). Let's see, his next feud was with Edge which was forgettable and he was out performed in every way by Edge...on the mic and in the ring. Then he feuded with Khali which may have been one of the worst world title feuds of the decade. He feuded with Taker and Edge again but was a throw in basically who no one cared about. He went over 'Taker once but the whole feud was about Edge and 'Taker. He then feuded with Umaga, HBK, Cena, Jericho then Orton, then got injured and came right back in to feud with Orton. Name any of these feuds that he carried? Name any of these matches that he carried? His hand was being held by everyone on how to put on a show other than Khali. Batista doesn't perform at the same level of the other main eventers...not even The Big Show. Big Show/Cena is a way more interesting program than Batista/Orton right now, and that is because Batista is bringing the value of the feud down. When it was Orton/HHH it was the WM25 headliner, but now it can't even headline Judgement Day and is followed by two matches one of them not even for a title.

He still has some drawing power, but since when has he been the headliner of a PPV or a show? He gets pops but so does Ric Flair, does that mean Ric Flair is still one of the best workers in Pro Wrestling? The logic here is all wrong. Batista was good, but due to injuries he has lost steps and he is not good enough to cover up his flaws. He gets cheered out of respect for the work he's put in, not because he is still "one of the best". To be fair to him he is "the worst of the best". When you go to a house show and Cena or HHH are scheduled to be there and for whatever reason they can't make it, the crowd is offered a refund. If Batista can't make it, the show continues.

Since Batista has come back Raw ratings have dropped considerably, and when his program with Orton is done the ratings will go back up because he will be out of the main feud on the show.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Dude have you read half of the posts in this thread? Obviously not. The points were made long ago. The discussion has now has come down to who understands wrestling or some other bullshit that really has nothing to do with Batista.

No one's ignoring anything, so take the time to actually read if that's not too hard to do for you before you start saying what I do or do not understand.

Others are winning? Uhm is this a wrestling match or a conversation? Do we get prizes for winning? Get your head out of your ass and come to real world. This is an internet discussion forum and we are all on here just talking shit basically. Nothing comes from it, and nothing can come from it. Its all anonymous. The fact that you collate winning with anything on this forum says that you have way too much time on your hands and use that time to over analyze forum culture and posting.

Now since the thread has become long (which actually is a good thing ) I will restate a point.

Batista rose to prominence when he had his face turn and went over HHH at WM 21. He became a huge draw and had some decent matches albeit quite forgettable in my eyes, and in the eyes of many hardcore fans. Between Wrestlemania 21 to now he has missed significant time at least 3 times (I don't have the exact number), has missed 2 Wrestlemania's. Injuries are no fault of his own however they do change the complexion of a career. Batista's in ring skills leave a lot to be desired. Of course he is not supposed to be technical like Benoit or Angle, etc. however he is supposed to exhibit in ring "technique", which he hasn't shown since his match with Taker at WM 23 on a consistent basis.

Remember the original point of the thread is who really cares about Batista (the character)? Don't equate that with a hard working man, which I have no choice but to respect. Being taken off topic with the pointless bantering calls for the point to be restated.

Let's do a quick run down of his feuds since WM 23 when he lost the strap to Taker and then see if he is as good as some claim. (Using Wikipedia to refresh my memory on the last 3 years of this boring character). Let's see, his next feud was with Edge which was forgettable and he was out performed in every way by Edge...on the mic and in the ring. Then he feuded with Khali which may have been one of the worst world title feuds of the decade. He feuded with Taker and Edge again but was a throw in basically who no one cared about. He went over 'Taker once but the whole feud was about Edge and 'Taker. He then feuded with Umaga, HBK, Cena, Jericho then Orton, then got injured and came right back in to feud with Orton. Name any of these feuds that he carried? Name any of these matches that he carried? His hand was being held by everyone on how to put on a show other than Khali. Batista doesn't perform at the same level of the other main eventers...not even The Big Show. Big Show/Cena is a way more interesting program than Batista/Orton right now, and that is because Batista is bringing the value of the feud down. When it was Orton/HHH it was the WM25 headliner, but now it can't even headline Judgement Day and is followed by two matches one of them not even for a title.

He still has some drawing power, but since when has he been the headliner of a PPV or a show? He gets pops but so does Ric Flair, does that mean Ric Flair is still one of the best workers in Pro Wrestling? The logic here is all wrong. Batista was good, but due to injuries he has lost steps and he is not good enough to cover up his flaws. He gets cheered out of respect for the work he's put in, not because he is still "one of the best". To be fair to him he is "the worst of the best". When you go to a house show and Cena or HHH are scheduled to be there and for whatever reason they can't make it, the crowd is offered a refund. If Batista can't make it, the show continues.

Since Batista has come back Raw ratings have dropped considerably, and when his program with Orton is done the ratings will go back up because he will be out of the main feud on the show.

Big Show performing better than Batista...lol....Had to get that one out of the way.

Big Show/Cena being better than Orton/Batista is just laughable. The Batista/Orton match was ten times better than Show/Cena. Let's see- Show dominates Cena for the entire match and Cena hits the AA and that's it. Hardly a good match my friend. HHH/Orton was horrible and after the first month, the feud completely lost momentum and you say that was a headliner. It shouldn't even have been last on the card but I'll leave it up to you to figure out why. Just face it that Batista has had the better feuds in the past three or fours with Taker, Edge, and Cena. And let's wait and see when Batista gets past his feud with Orton if the ratings will improve because I bet it won't be because of Batista, but because of Randy Orton still being champ.

That's my opinion.

 

[kurtisraw07]

I don't respect Batista for anything. He's a one dimensional generic muscleman.