Who is Truly Mr. WrestleMania: The Undertaker or Shawn Michaels?

[SSJPhenom]

It's WrestleMania season so this goes with the territory. I know I've seen some posts discussing this very thing, however, I've never come across a thread discussing this topic so being a huge 'Taker and HBK mark I wanted to throw it out there.

I've just recently watched WrestleMania 29 again and after the CM Punk/'Taker match the commentators referred to 'Taker as the greatest performer in WrestleMania history. That's all well and good, however, Shawn Michaels is still referred to as Mr. WrestleMania.

For me, it all depends on what you look at and judge as to who is Mr. WrestleMania. If you look at match quality only, then Shawn Michaels is Mr. WrestleMania hands down. I don't think that he's ever had a bad match at WrestleMania. That's not to say that he hasn't had some uneventful matches at WrestleMania because he certainly has, however, I don't really remember any of his matches that one could call bad. So when you compare HBK's body of work at WrestleMania to 'Taker's, you definitely have to go with HBK. Let's be honest, 'Taker has had some clunkers at WrestleMania. With all due respect to 'Taker, however, not all of them were his fault because he was in the ring with some god awful performers during his early years at WrestleMania. Honestly, his matches don't start to get really good at WrestleMania until around WrestleMania 17 with HHH. After that match, it seemed that people started to recognize that 'Taker was a great performer at WrestleMania.

What really works in 'Taker's favor, though, is the Streak. The Streak has become as big, if not bigger, than the Championship matches at WrestleMania and when it's all said and done, whether 'Taker loses or not, people will still look back and remember that he was undefeated at WresteMania for a very long time. So if you look at legacy and overall importance to the event, then 'Taker is Mr. WrestleMania.

I can't really decide between the two because IMO they are both deserving of the title, however, if you had to pick just one person who is deserving of the moniker Mr. WrestleMania; who would it be: The Undertaker or ole HBShizzle?

 

[justinept]

Here's why it's Shawn Michaels... because wrestling is scripted. Wins and losses don't matter. I get that The Streak has become a brand, but it's a manufactured brand that the company likely stumbled upon over time.

What Michaels did at WrestleMania went far beyond the script. It didn't matter if he was booked to win or to lose, he flat stole the show at pretty much every WrestleMania he participated in from WrestleMania 10-26.

PWI Match of the Year (1994) vs. Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X
PWI Match of the Year (1995) vs. Diesel at WrestleMania XI
PWI Match of the Year (1996) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
PWI Match of the Year (2004) vs. Chris Benoit and Triple H at WrestleMania XX
PWI Match of the Year (2005) vs. Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 21
PWI Match of the Year (2006) vs. Vince McMahon at WrestleMania 22
PWI Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
PWI Match of the Year (2009) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXV
PWI Match of the Year (2010) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVI

So from WrestleMania 10-26, Michaels wrestled in 12 matches. Of those 12, NINE were honored as the PWI Match of the Year. Of those nine matches, there were nine completely unique opponents. Of those nine unique opponents, two of them were 60-year old men. Of those two 60-year old men, one of them wasn't even a wrestler.

What I'm saying is simple. It didn't matter who Michaels was in the ring with at 'Mania. Whether his opponent was a technical wrestler (Hart, Benoit, Angle), a brawler (Hall, Trips), a big man ('Taker, Nash) or a broken down old man (Flair, McMahon), Michaels was still going to steal the show. The old phrase says Ric Flair could've had a 60-minute match with a broom and made it interesting... well, Michaels pretty much proved that he could do the same at WrestleMania.

Just as interesting to the guys he stole the show with; here are the matches that didn't win Match of the Year:

WrestleMania 14 vs Austin. We can forgive Michaels for this one since he wrestled it with a broken back...

WrestleMania 19 vs Chris Jericho. This might not have won Match of the Year, but it was clearly the Match of the Night.

WrestleMania 23 vs John Cena. This was the highest-rated match of the night at WrestleMania according to PWI... and it might've been the match of the year if Michaels and Cena didn't top it a few weeks later in their match-up on Raw.

As impressive as The Streak is in terms of kayfabe, it's still just a result of scripted finishes. Michaels WrestleMania resume is much, much more impressive.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Here's why it's Shawn Michaels... because wrestling is scripted. Wins and losses don't matter. I get that The Streak has become a brand, but it's a manufactured brand that the company likely stumbled upon over time.

What Michaels did at WrestleMania went far beyond the script. It didn't matter if he was booked to win or to lose, he flat stole the show at pretty much every WrestleMania he participated in from WrestleMania 10-26.

PWI Match of the Year (1994) vs. Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X
PWI Match of the Year (1995) vs. Diesel at WrestleMania XI
PWI Match of the Year (1996) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
PWI Match of the Year (2004) vs. Chris Benoit and Triple H at WrestleMania XX
PWI Match of the Year (2005) vs. Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 21
PWI Match of the Year (2006) vs. Vince McMahon at WrestleMania 22
PWI Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
PWI Match of the Year (2009) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXV
PWI Match of the Year (2010) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVI

What's amazing is I don't know if anyone else could've done that with the guys he did. Flair at his age, Diesel, and VInce? That's just amazing.

WrestleMania 14 vs Austin. We can forgive Michaels for this one since he wrestled it with a broken back...

IMO it's HBK's most impressive match and it was unbelievable how good the match was considering.
[/QUOTE]

WrestleMania 19 vs Chris Jericho. This might not have won Match of the Year, but it was clearly the Match of the Night.

And probably Jericho's best WM match and a classic by any standard.

WrestleMania 23 vs John Cena. This was the highest-rated match of the night at WrestleMania according to PWI... and it might've been the match of the year if Michaels and Cena didn't top it a few weeks later in their match-up on Raw.

Cena's best WM match and imo his best two matches were with HBK and this one is only SLIGHTLY overshadowed by the other.

As impressive as The Streak is in terms of kayfabe, it's still just a result of scripted finishes. Michaels WrestleMania resume is much, much more impressive.

Exactly, takers streak could be given to anyone, but the matches Michael's put on couldn't be.

 

[RicSpade]

Undertaker is impressive don't get me wrong, but I think if you look at what HBK did pre attitude era is what helped put him on the upper eschelon over Taker, Taker had an impressive run but his run didn't really start as impressive until 17 in all honesty and certain matches weren't even above par with those from HBK from a technical standpoint I mean his best matches were with Triple H, Ric Flair, HBK, CM Punk, Sid and Diesil. I mean don't get me wrong Shawn had matches that weren't 5 star with guys like Tatanka, his tag matches with Marty against the orient express but he had 2 years of back to back wwe title matches, an hour long match with Bret which was unprecidented at the time he had a hell of a match with Austin despite his back injury, he comes back and makes old guys like Vince and Flair look like they were in their prime, he made John Cena a bigger star, his return to WM against Jericho was a great match and his back to back matches with Taker were some of the best wrestling I have ever seen in my life.

Takers streak they mainly will talk about Taker/Triple H, Taker/HBK, Taker/Flair but will people talk about his almost tag match with nathan jones? no, will they talk about Taker vs. King Kong Bundy? no, will they talk about his match with Mark Henry very doubtful, so in essence the performance outlives the Streak which is why HBK will be Mr. Wrestlemania

 

[L@RISANO]

Being a huge Taker mark, obviously I will go with the Undertaker.

Why? Because in the coming years, when people think about Wrestlemania, the first thing that comes to mind will be Undertaker's Streak at Wrestlemania. People will remember the great matches he put on when the Streak became widely known and acknowledged from Orton onwards.

I will admit that HBK is the better in-ring performer overall and has had his great share of classics.

However, after hearing how fellow professionals have talked about Taker at Mania. How he brings his "A" Game" when Wrestlemania comes around and suchlike.
Even Diesel in one documentary complimented Taker on their match at Wrestlemania,saying he never really thought he could have a good match with another big guy.

The Old School, Flying over the ropes, Flying clothesline,the Chokeslam, Hell's Gate, the Tombstone, the Entrance itself, etc...
All things that the Undertaker brings to Wrestlemania and the Streak match.

lMO, Shawn Michaels, HBK, is arguably the greatest Wrestler ever in many people's opinions but when I think of Wrestlemania...I think of the Phenom,the Deadman...the Undertaker!

 

[jameyt2003]

Honestly, it has to be Hulk or Stone Cold. Hulk Hogan headlined the first nine WrestleMania's. I know that statement is up for debate, but just hear me out.
Hogan was the centerpiece of WrestleMania's evolution from Starrcade rival to Super Bowl of wrestling.
Now, Stone Cold defined wrestling for the new generation of older wrestling fan. He headlined 4 of the most important WrestleMania's of the WWF's most most popular stretch of exposure.

IMO, I give it to Hulk Hogan.

Between Taker and HBK. I enjoy HBK matches a lot more than I do any UT match. The WM X Ladder match and the match vs Stone Cold was amazing. Plus the Iron man match and the Jericho match at WM XIX.

 

[lowandmighty]

Yeah I'd have to go with the Hogan guy, especially since Wrestlemania is obviously named after Hulkamania.

Between The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels or "HBShizzle" as refered to by the OP why? who knows, I'd have to go with Undertaker.

Purely because he's what 21 and 0 and Wrestlemania. Shawn Michaels lost 11 times. that would have to be one of the losingest records for Wrestlemania there is.

 

[justinept]

Yeah I'd have to go with the Hogan guy, especially since Wrestlemania is obviously named after Hulkamania.

Actually, they're both named after BeatleMania... but I won't hold that tiny slip-up against you. Hogan certainly has his name in the hat - as does Austin. They both belong in this discussion. In my opinion, they're the only two that can take the title of being Mr. WrestleMania away from Shawn Michaels.

There's no doubt that Hogan and Austin were more important to the event's history. They sold the tickets. They made people buy the event on pay-per view. Without those two guys, there's no WrestleMania... there's probably no WWE at all. Forget Mr. WrestleMania. Those two should duke it out for the title of Mr. WWE. Hell, we can throw The Rock into that fight as well. To me, that's a more apt title for those guys.

But as for Mr. WrestleMania, I just struggle to take the moniker away from Michaels. We can certainly knock him from a business stance. Despite all his great matches, despite being in the WWE Championship match at five different events, he was really only counted on to sell the event once - WrestleMania 12 - and the result was the second-lowest WrestleMania buy rate of all-time. WrestleMania 11 was sold by Lawrence Taylor. WrestleMania 14 was sold by the ascension of Austin. WrestleMania 20 was sold by The Rock's return. And WrestleMania 23 was sold by John Cena.

So it isn't like Michaels pushed the needle from a business perspective. But he did push the needle in terms of what to expect at the event. With Michaels, the hype always lived up to expectations. He was always the guy that made us talk and left us wanting more.

 

[roipdh123]

I really cannot make a decision so I decided I will just rate each of these man's matches {including the buildup} and the man with the bigger average is the real Mr.Wrestlemania:

Undertaker:
WM 7 - defeated Jimmy Snuka - 4
WM 8 - defeated Jake Roberts - 7
WM 9 - defeated Giant Gonzalez - 5
WM 11 - defeated King Kong Bundy - 6
WM 12 - defeated Diesel - 7
WM 13 - defeated Sycho Sid - 6
WM 14 - defeated Kane - 8
WM 15 - defeated Big Boss Man - 6
WM 17 - defeated Triple H - 7
WM 18 - defeated Ric Flair - 8
WM 19 - defeated both Big Show and A Train - 5
WM 20 - defeated Kane - 6
WM 21 - defeated Randy Orton - 8
WM 22 - defeated Mark Henry - 5
WM 23 - defeated Batista - 8
WM 24 - defeated Edge - 9
WM 25 - defeated Shawn Michaels - 9
WM 26 - defeated Shawn Michaels - 10
WM 27 - defeated Triple H - 8
WM 28 - defeated Triple H - 9
WM 29 - defeated Cm Punk - 7

Record:21-0
Average:7.04

HBK:
WM 5 - The Rockers were defeated by The Twin Towers - 5
WM 6 - Tanaka and Sato defeated The Rockers - 5
WM 7 - The Rockers defeated The Barbarian and Haku - 6
WM 8 - defeated Tito Santana - 6
WM 9 - was defeated by Tatnaka - 6
WM 10 - was defeated by Razor Ramon - 10
WM 11 - was defeated by Diesel - 8
WM 12 - defeated Bret Hart - 10
WM 14 - was defeated by Stone Cold - 8
WM 19 - defeated Jericho - 8
WM 20 - was defeated by Benoit in a 3 way match {also involving HHH} - 10
WM 21 - was defeated by Angle - 8
WM 22 - defeated Vince McMahon - 9
WM 23 - was defeated by John Cena - 7
WM 24 - defeated Ric Flair - 8
WM 25 - was defeated by The Undertaker - 9
WM 26 - was defeated by The Undertaker - 10

Record:6-9
Average:8.8


So yes in my opinion HBK is indeed Mr.Wrestlemania !

 

[Sundar]

HBK hands down because wrestling is scripted so wins and losses don't matter.

 

[TDFG]

Comparing the matches that HBK & Undertaker have had at WrestleMania, my vote would go to Shawn Michaels.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I respect everyone's opinion but the argument that Professional Wrestling is scripted therefor wins and losses don't matter is ridiculous. When you say something like that you're pretty saying that the Streak doesn't matter and that it is unimportant. That's a slap in the face of the Undertaker IMO.

Like I said in my post, HBK clearly has the better matches at WrestleMania, however, The Undertaker is clearly more important to the event. He's more important to event legacy wise and financially speaking he's drawn a hell of a lot more money for WrestleMania than HBK has.

So those of you saying that Shawn Michaels is a better in ring performer, well you're correct, however, you can't just discount the Undertaker. Again, if one considers the legacy of WrestleMania and the overall importance to the event then 'Taker is your guy.

 

[lowandmighty]

Actually, they're both named after BeatleMania... but I won't hold that tiny slip-up against you.

I can assure you they were not thinking of the Beatles when they decided on the name for Wrestlemania. It was no slip up.

 

[justinept]

I can assure you they were not thinking of the Beatles when they decided on the name for Wrestlemania. It was no slip up.

Were you in the room? Because I wasn't either. And as such, I'm inclined to take the WWE's word for it. They explicitly say in the History of WrestleMania DVD that it was named after Beatlemania. Yes, they could be lying or making up their own history - but the 'assurances' of someone that wasn't in the room when the decision was made doesn't actually convince me.

As for the argument from another poster that referring to wins and losses as meaningless is an insult to The Undertaker's career - I disagree. Wrestling has always been about blurring the lines of reality and fiction. This is why our Mr. WrestleMania conversation right now centers around one guy that's 21-0 at the event, and another guy that went 6-10.

In context, the idea is absurd. If this were a legitimate sports league, The Undertaker would be ahead 12.5 games in the standings. So why are we having this conversation, then? It's simply because wins and losses in a scripted sport don't matter. The performance of the wrestler is the biggest factor.

I think people get the wrong idea of the streak. It's kayfabe build centers around the idea that The Undertaker is undefeated in the ring. But the real significance to it as a fan is two-fold. The first part is that The Undertaker has only wrestled once each year since 2010. So seeing The Undertaker at WrestleMania is special. The other part is that The Undertaker, for at least the last 7-8 years, has put up great performances at 'Mania. We know he's going to win the match, but we stay invested because of the performance in the ring. So saying wins and losses are irrelevant doesn't minimize the streak in my eyes... it's just a statement of fact that causes us to examine the streak from a manner that the wrestler can actually control - the in-ring performance.

And in terms of in-ring performance at WrestleMania, no one has performed at the level of Shawn Michaels.

 

[thebarber]

I really cannot make a decision so I decided I will just rate each of these man's matches {including the buildup} and the man with the bigger average is the real Mr.Wrestlemania:

Undertaker:
WM 7 - defeated Jimmy Snuka - 4
WM 8 - defeated Jake Roberts - 7
WM 9 - defeated Giant Gonzalez - 5
WM 11 - defeated King Kong Bundy - 6
WM 12 - defeated Diesel - 7
WM 13 - defeated Sycho Sid - 6
WM 14 - defeated Kane - 8
WM 15 - defeated Big Boss Man - 6
WM 17 - defeated Triple H - 7
WM 18 - defeated Ric Flair - 8
WM 19 - defeated both Big Show and A Train - 5
WM 20 - defeated Kane - 6
WM 21 - defeated Randy Orton - 8
WM 22 - defeated Mark Henry - 5
WM 23 - defeated Batista - 8
WM 24 - defeated Edge - 9
WM 25 - defeated Shawn Michaels - 9
WM 26 - defeated Shawn Michaels - 10
WM 27 - defeated Triple H - 8
WM 28 - defeated Triple H - 9
WM 29 - defeated Cm Punk - 7

Record:21-0
Average:7.04

HBK:
WM 5 - The Rockers were defeated by The Twin Towers - 5
WM 6 - Tanaka and Sato defeated The Rockers - 5
WM 7 - The Rockers defeated The Barbarian and Haku - 6
WM 8 - defeated Tito Santana - 6
WM 9 - was defeated by Tatnaka - 6
WM 10 - was defeated by Razor Ramon - 10
WM 11 - was defeated by Diesel - 8
WM 12 - defeated Bret Hart - 10
WM 14 - was defeated by Stone Cold - 8
WM 19 - defeated Jericho - 8
WM 20 - was defeated by Benoit in a 3 way match {also involving HHH} - 10
WM 21 - was defeated by Angle - 8
WM 22 - defeated Vince McMahon - 9
WM 23 - was defeated by John Cena - 7
WM 24 - defeated Ric Flair - 8
WM 25 - was defeated by The Undertaker - 9
WM 26 - was defeated by The Undertaker - 10

Record:6-9
Average:8.8


So yes in my opinion HBK is indeed Mr.Wrestlemania !

my maths as HBK 6-11, he lost the last two to Undertaker

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I respect everyone's opinion but the argument that Professional Wrestling is scripted therefor wins and losses don't matter is ridiculous. When you say something like that you're pretty saying that the Streak doesn't matter and that it is unimportant. That's a slap in the face of the Undertaker IMO.

Like I said in my post, HBK clearly has the better matches at WrestleMania, however, The Undertaker is clearly more important to the event. He's more important to event legacy wise and financially speaking he's drawn a hell of a lot more money for WrestleMania than HBK has.

So those of you saying that Shawn Michaels is a better in ring performer, well you're correct, however, you can't just discount the Undertaker. Again, if one considers the legacy of WrestleMania and the overall importance to the event then 'Taker is your guy.

The Legacy of Wrestlemania is about the remarkable performances and things that happen on that night. Sure from a booking perspective Takers a big deal but honestly, HBK made that his own personal highlight tape and honestly, the hype of facing HBK at wrestlemania was just as big as facing Taker when HBK was around if you've forgotten. The buildup for Angle vs HBK, Cena vs HBK, and Flair vs HBK had everything to do with how great HBK was in that moment and how big it was just to face him at Wrestlemania. Not to mention the fact that he's 6-11 at Mania and no one has really ever debated his greatest in that moment. That's kind of amazing.

Taker being 21-0 is a happenstance of booking. You might think that's disrespectful but it's true. Michaels earned the title Mr. Wrestlemania through his performance, you want to give it to someone based on something that was decided before taker ever stepped in the ring.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

PWI Match of the Year (1994) vs. Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X
PWI Match of the Year (1995) vs. Diesel at WrestleMania XI
PWI Match of the Year (1996) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
PWI Match of the Year (2004) vs. Chris Benoit and Triple H at WrestleMania XX
PWI Match of the Year (2005) vs. Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 21
PWI Match of the Year (2006) vs. Vince McMahon at WrestleMania 22
PWI Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
PWI Match of the Year (2009) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXV
PWI Match of the Year (2010) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVI

So from WrestleMania 10-26, Michaels wrestled in 12 matches. Of those 12, NINE were honored as the PWI Match of the Year. Of those nine matches, there were nine completely unique opponents. Of those nine unique opponents, two of them were 60-year old men. Of those two 60-year old men, one of them wasn't even a wrestler.

That's an incredible record!! NINE matches at WM as PWI match of the year, proving without doubt that Shawn Michaels is the greatest in-ring performer of all time. As Justinept points out, the range of opponents Shawn faced at WM, including a 60 y/o non-wrestler, other wrestlers past their prime, a 7 footer and technical specialists shows just how talented he was, capable of pulling a great match out of almost anybody.

Undertaker's record at WM is phenomenal, but that is because it's booked to be that way. Yes, his matches at the last half-dozen Wrestlemania's have been incredible, especially at his age, but his earlier matches weren't that great, and the streak wasn't a big deal until it got over 10 anyway.

Whether Shawn won or lost, it was the QUALITY OF MATCH that made him known as Mr Wrestlemania, and even after several years off after a crippling back injury (which he worked through to put Austin over at WM14- another astonishing performance), he came back to be better than ever, gathering many more MOTY awards.

Shawn Michaels is, and always will be...MR WRESTLEMANIA.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

It's a very close thing. Both have had mediocre matches at Weestlemania, both have had amazing matches. Shawn's matches between 2003-2010 were no lower than 8/10 in my book - but the same can easily be said for the Undertaker's matches between 2005-2013. Yet Michaels had average-at-best matches with Tatanka, the a Orient Express, and - yes - Bret Hart, in the most overrated match in history IMO (it was largely dull with a few memorable spots); however, Undertaker had his share of duds - missing the floor by a clear foot in his Tombstone Piledriving of Jake the Snake (though I blame the cameraman more for that!), and his horrible match versus the Giant Gonzalez (nb. the streak officially includes a dq victory. A tad disappointing.)

On balance, it is very close, but I give the edge - just - to the Undertaker. He has become as important a piece of Wrestlemania as the WWE Title match; Shawn is my favourite of all time, but was never afforded that status. Plus it is fair to say that, by a quirk of genetics that made him 5'11 and 227 lbs rather than a veritable giant like 'Taker, he was booked against much better athletes - of course Undertaker struggled against the likes of Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy and Sid, whereas Michaels was paired with solid workers like Tito Santana or helpful gimmicks like the ladder match (again, arguably the greatest gimmick match in history.)

Regardless of opinions, though, and whoever people choose, I'm just grateful that I was able to see in person what was in my opinion the greatest match in history between the two of them at Wrestlemania 25