When do fans go too far?

[The Mighty Tiger]

I said this in another thread... no point in typing it all out again....

It's sad that it has come to this. Remember when wrestling was about good vs evil and people pulled for the good guy? Rather than, "this heel has terrific mic skills and this face lacks in-ring quality and since that is what everyone on the internet tells me I'm going to choose to like Miz more so I'm not judged."

Uhhh when was this time, back when Hogan was champion? I can't speak for everyone one else but I like who I like for my own reasons & I don't give a damn about being judge for those reasons. If you agree then you agree if you don't then you don't.

I'm not telling you to just like the good guy because well... he's the good guy. That's entirely up to you as the viewer. Watch the show the way you want to watch it. I just find it unfortunate that this is the situation we find ourselves in. The face of the company, the company that most of us have loved our whole lives, is getting boo'd practically off the mic because he's........ he's what? Boring in the ring? No sorry bad excuse.

Not an excuse the truth. If a persons matches have been predictable for the last five or so years wouldn't that make him boring in the ring. Sure he puts on good matches every now & then but thats the problem ppl don't wont every now & then they wont a good match out of the top dog all the time.

He does just as much as any face of his quality has done. Austin - news flash - mostly had the same routine in his matches.

Austin did the same moves in his matches but Austin's matches wasn't predictable he didn't go in there following the same blue print from another match. He would change the order he did things. Cena on the other hand pretty much does the samething in the same order no matter who he fights.

Randy Orton, hello? Rope DDT, "Vintage Orton", spaz in the ring, RKO out of no where, etc etc.

Randy's matches have just started to get predictable don't worry if he keeps that same routine up for another 5 years ppl will be booing him too.

Hogan? Same shit, even more boring.

Hogan really doesn't count his day at the top was decades ago wrestling was different then. The bar has been rose pretty high since his day.

Is it Cena's mic skills? Are you... kidding? If anything it's definitely easier to get heat from a crowd than to get them to like you so for a face Cena's mic skills are definitely good.

Your right it is way easier to be heel on the mic then to be face but the problem w/John is he talks like he is on Blue's Clue's most of the time. No grown up wants to hear that fake crip he be spitting cause it's just not realistic. He is to clean-cut & ppl after a while get tired of a one-dimensional good guy character.

He goes toe-to-toe with The Rock on the mic for a few weeks straight now and dammit he sounds damn good doing it. His promo of him being 'fired' and 'retiring' because of Wade Barrett was one of the best promo's of the year. And again his recent segments about The Rock have been on key, to say the least.

Your right again his work w/The Rock have been great but that's the best he has sound on the mic since like 2006 everything else is just lackluster.


Is it because he's 'superman'? He hasn't had the title since Sheamus took it off of him back on June 20th.

Just cause he doesn't have the title doesn't mean he hasn't been booked as Superman. The guy almost never loses clean, the WWE got it as if no one man can beat him just straight up toe to toe.

What has been SO GREAT about Sheamus', Orton's, or dare I say everyone's favorite person to beat off to.. the Miz's title run?

I only like Orton out of the 3 guys you mention the other two are not heavyweight champ material IMO.

Is it a breath of fresh air? Oh definitely. No doubt. But that means we should hate Cena?

Ppl hate Cena cause he chooses to perform at a level that isn't his best because his target fan base is to young to really notice his flaws.

He busts his ass for this company,

He doesn't work no harder then anybody else.

sells enough merchandise to buy a small country,

How much merchandise he sells doesn't benefit non of us fans so who really cares.

he has above-average in-ring ability and tells a story in the ring which allows him to put on great (in my opinion, at least) matches,

He is average in the ring & his storytelling in the ring is the same most times & he only puts on good not great matches ever now & then.

he's an A+ on the mic,

He is more like a B+ on the mic when he is at his best. Lately he has been C, C+ at best. Now the stuff w/The Rock has been his B+ work.

has a tremendous look

True he does look like a Champion to me also.

and yet all of this equates to a bunch of insecure jackasses who feel less manly if they cheer for him to boo his ass almost out of the arena?

This part doesn't apply to me so I don't have a comment.

Take a step back and form an opinion for yourself.

I do.

Don't get absorbed by various sources of media, especially the IWC. The WWE itself is media, sure. But I recognize and appreciate great talent when I see it and I see it in John Cena.

So do I & I see talent in John also but the problem is John doesn't show it all the time. That's why I boo him cause he he doesn't show talent all I see from John is a guy that knows his spot isn't going anywhere so he doesn't feel like he has to give he best all the time. John Cena's problem is he is a B grade talent that has been preforming for a few years on a C grade level C+ at best & he has been in the A grade spot for a little to long for most ppl to stomach.

 

[Kaneanite]

The people that hate Cena don't even acknowledge nor accept how hard he works for the company and the fans now? There really is no hope, that's a fight not worth fighting. If you can't even acknowledge that he is the hardest working person in the company and literally would do ANYTHING for it then what the heck? He's only in the position he is right now (face of the company, main eventing mania, feuding with THE ROCK) because of how hard he busts his ass. The guy never takes vacations, never complains about the workload, always shows up to every RAW and PPV and even makes appearances on SD!. He's always at house-shows too. That's all the viewer even sees. He must do even more between charity events and signings and just appearances in general considering how greatly Vince treats him.

There's no point in getting into another fight-for-Cena. At the end of the day, a bunch of people that call themselves "adults" are going to boo the heck out of a guy that busts his ass for them on a weekly basis.

 

[xsKiitz]

The people that hate Cena don't even acknowledge nor accept how hard he works for the company and the fans now? There really is no hope, that's a fight not worth fighting. If you can't even acknowledge that he is the hardest working person in the company and literally would do ANYTHING for it then what the heck? He's only in the position he is right now (face of the company, main eventing mania, feuding with THE ROCK) because of how hard he busts his ass. The guy never takes vacations, never complains about the workload, always shows up to every RAW and PPV and even makes appearances on SD!. He's always at house-shows too. That's all the viewer even sees. He must do even more between charity events and signings and just appearances in general considering how greatly Vince treats him.

There's no point in getting into another fight-for-Cena. At the end of the day, a bunch of people that call themselves "adults" are going to boo the heck out of a guy that busts his ass for them on a weekly basis.

I personally don't boo Cena the person, but Cena's wrestling character. It's just like, even if Michael Cole gave out lollipops to thousands of little girls, I woud still boo him. Their characters are easily able to be hated no matter how nice they are IRL.

If I saw Cena on the streets I wouldn't start booing him or insulting him because I know that he's a legit good guy in real life. In the wrestling ring, I hate him to bits. SuperCena annoys the crap out of me, so at a wrestling event like the press conference, I would boo him because it's still Cena's wrestling character on stage. I wasn't there, but if I was I would've bood him like I would have if I went to Raw any week of the year.


Don't get me wrong, I admire what the man does out of the ring, but his character is shit so I dislike him in the wrestling business.

 

[DeadmanFan]

The people that hate Cena don't even acknowledge nor accept how hard he works for the company and the fans now? There really is no hope, that's a fight not worth fighting. If you can't even acknowledge that he is the hardest working person in the company and literally would do ANYTHING for it then what the heck? He's only in the position he is right now (face of the company, main eventing mania, feuding with THE ROCK) because of how hard he busts his ass. The guy never takes vacations, never complains about the workload, always shows up to every RAW and PPV and even makes appearances on SD!. He's always at house-shows too. That's all the viewer even sees. He must do even more between charity events and signings and just appearances in general considering how greatly Vince treats him.

There's no point in getting into another fight-for-Cena. At the end of the day, a bunch of people that call themselves "adults" are going to boo the heck out of a guy that busts his ass for them on a weekly basis.

Who cares? Seriously. I find this to be a variation of the discredited Labor Theory of Value. So what if he's the hardest working person in the company (I wouldn't know if it's true or not, but I don't doubt he works hard because he is passionate about the business)? That means literally zero to the value that he provides to us, the wrestling consumers. His work is a necessary but insufficient condition for value.

He might work hard, but I still hate his character. I still hate how we see the same thing year after year with zero changes. I hate how we see this same, bland character headlining WrestleMania after WrestleMania and winning title after title. He doesn't provide value to me, and consequently I will boo his character.

I agree that the press conference outside of the show was the wrong place to do the booing (even though he was still there as his John Cena character and not his real self), but I can understand. I'm just saying that the "he works hard" argument is a bad one to use.

 

[eezy1]

this was simply the fans collectively blaming cena for the business as it is today. the PG era, the shitty ratings, the shitty matches, just the shitty state of wrestling when compared to yester`year. i think cena gets tons of heat for it but it isnt his fault.

 

[Kaneanite]

Who cares? Seriously. I find this to be a variation of the discredited Labor Theory of Value. So what if he's the hardest working person in the company (I wouldn't know if it's true or not, but I don't doubt he works hard because he is passionate about the business)? That means literally zero to the value that he provides to us, the wrestling consumers. His work is a necessary but insufficient condition for value.

He might work hard, but I still hate his character. I still hate how we see the same thing year after year with zero changes. I hate how we see this same, bland character headlining WrestleMania after WrestleMania and winning title after title. He doesn't provide value to me, and consequently I will boo his character.

I agree that the press conference outside of the show was the wrong place to do the booing (even though he was still there as his John Cena character and not his real self), but I can understand. I'm just saying that the "he works hard" argument is a bad one to use.

That's not why I'm saying he shouldn't be boo'd so it doesn't matter if it's a bad argument - it's not mine. It was in response to that other guy saying that Cena doesn't work any harder than anyone else on the roster. Which is so false I don't even need to begin going over why... again.

The boo'ing at the press conference was just a bunch of idiots with a 3rd grade education and SCSA shirts that haven't been washed since 2002 boo'ing not only Cena but slapping WWE in the face. It was disgusting.

 

[yur_momma]

these fans bought tickets, they can chant whatever they want... and do you think cena gives a shit??? he is being paid regardless, so basically the fans who bought tickets are paying cena to stand there and take the shouting. im sure cena doesnt care.

on the other hand, this is what happens when you seal your company in a little bottle and force unimaginative characters down our throats, edit crowd chants/boo's out of tv and ignore every form of feedback from the fans. the crowd reaction to cena should be no surprise to anyone especially here at WZ...cena's character is not liked and its well known...why anyone would expect a different reaction, in that setting, to yet another BORING cena promo is beyond me.

it was a silly press conference, no show or segment was ruined and seriously...anything cena was going to say wasnt going to be headline newsworthy.

 

[TheMainMan32]

I love how people here seem to forget that "It doesn't matter what we think" to the WWE. They will simply apply the "controversial" tag to Cena, and go about their merry way. It doesn't matter what you shout... because you're shouting. Cena is not... repeat... not turning heel anytime soon, and certainly not because some fans started booing when he started speaking.

To answer the question though, did the fans go too far? Allow me to counter that question with a question of my own: was Cena physically assaulted? No? Then the fans didn't go too far. IMO, they didn't go far enough because Cena, after a few minutes, got his speech out. They should have made so much noise that Cena was forced to give it up, and go sit down.

 

[MaxSteel]

Alright, my first comments might have been taken a bit out of context, so I'll elaborate on them and also repeat what some others have already said:

When I said he fucking deserves it, I meant the character, not the real man. But than again, this was the main problem with this discussion.

See, most people who defend Cena here either have very low IQ or they are simply pathetic soft *****es (and the latter type of people makes me feel physically ill of disgusted). They either truly believe, or convince themselves that Cena was at the press conference as the real Cena, not the wrestler. This is simply dumb to assume. Every single wrestler before him came to promote his storyline, and was fully keyfabe. How would John Cena suddenly be the only non-keyfabe wrestler there? He wasn't. It's just that when there aren't any kids at the crowd, people can actually confuse him with his real character, since he doesn't really have any gimmick apart from SuperCena which he usually only uses for the kids.

There were also a few points here made about people booing him only cause it's "cool to boo faces and cheer the heels". Really? "coo to cheer heelz, boo fases.." REALLY?? I'll tell you why they boo'ed him:
1) His character is fucking stale. He's the same predictable and boring SuperCena for a long, long time, and at least in his last promo, he (or the creative who made him say it) showed that this isn't about to change any time soon. Do you expect anyone to be happy about it?
2) He was considered the "face of the company", yet after The Rock returned to remind everyone what The Top Face should really be like, they got more confidant in their opinions regarding Cena (regarding him sucking. Big time).

For last, I'd like to say the editing WWE did, while understandable, is a complete and utter spit to the face of everyone attending the event. I know they want to make The Miz look weak and disliked (if that wasn't obvious by his booking), even though I think he god damn deserved for everybody watching those stupid conference vids to hear the true crowd reaction he had. Michael Cole wasn't really keyfabe there, he was just announcing, so not letting him say a word was a bit too harsh. But editing the true and sincere feeling the fans (The FREAKEN WWE UNIVERSE, WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS THEIR FEELINGS FREELY. Weren't you talking about this quite a lot, WWE?) had for Cena, now that's a slap to the face of everybody in attendance and everybody even caring enough to watch this ingenuine piece of garbage.

I personally think such bullshit would've never happaned had WWE real competition, and I'm hoping with all my heart that one day Vince pays for this somehow. Maby one day he pushes this shit too far, and by that time TNA have long changed management and got wealthy sopnsers to take them to the next level, and knock WWE off. A man can dream, right?

 

[The Mighty Tiger]

The people that hate Cena don't even acknowledge nor accept how hard he works for the company and the fans now?

I want you to understand that I'm not saying he is lazy all I'm saying is he doesn't work harder then anybody else when the subject is about his in ring work.

There really is no hope, that's a fight not worth fighting. If you can't even acknowledge that he is the hardest working person in the company and literally would do ANYTHING for it then what the heck? He's only in the position he is right now (face of the company, main eventing mania, feuding with THE ROCK) because of how hard he busts his ass.

This isn't true John is in his position cause he join the company at the right time. Who else was gon be the face of the company when most of there top guys died or left? John was in the right place at the right time. Now this isn't a reason to boo the guy but don't make it seem like he really is doing more then everyone else when he isn't.


The guy never takes vacations, never complains about the workload, always shows up to every RAW and PPV and even makes appearances on SD!.He's always at house-shows too.

Last I checked isn't everybody else on the roster doing the samething besides the legends. So who is he working harder than HHH Undertaker The Rock Stonecold cause they are the only ones that haven't done what you have mention but there legends so they have already earned there keep.

That's all the viewer even sees. He must do even more between charity events and signings and just appearances in general considering how greatly Vince treats him.

Now he may do more of this stuff compare to the other guys but that doesn't have anything to do w/his in ring work. I don't believe he is wrestling way more then The Miz or Orton for example there puting in the same amount of work.


There's no point in getting into another fight-for-Cena. At the end of the day, a bunch of people that call themselves "adults" are going to boo the heck out of a guy that busts his ass for them on a weekly basis.

See this is what I'm saying you make it seem like we suppose to cheer this man just cause he is a hard worker but who isn't a hard worker that's apart of the WWE. Going buy what you say we suppose to cheer everybody cause everybody works hard there.

 

[lionyates]

Dude waiting all those hours just to see people talk for a half hour isnt being a real fan? I think most of us were die hard fans to even be there just for that. Some people just legit dont like Cena. Based on everything i was hearing there , most of the people hate Cena because hes basically the poster boy for everything PG and the things we dont want in wrestling as FANS. It sucks that hes that guy, but in reality, he is.

WWE talks all this stuff about the " universe " being allowed to voice how they feel, yet they censor everything and take away signs that has anything remotely bad about Cena? In the end, that turns more people against him. There was also a huge chant of " Turn Heel " btw which they cut out.

I dont agree with everything that happened, but saying were not " real " fans is a bad statement. NYC is the mecca of real wrestling fans.

And BTW .. Fans didnt throw cereal at John Cena , some fans threw cereal AT THE CAR that he was in as it was pulling infront of the place and every window was up. Nothing was thrown at him. Lets not make it sound worse then it was .. and heres the report

- WrestlingINC.com reader Willliam Coshburn sent this in about yesterday's WrestleMania press conference: I live in NY and was unable to go inside for the press conference, but while waiting outside at the side entrance John Cena's car pulled up along the side walk. A fan apparently threw some Fruity Pebbles at him. The cereal hit the car as it was rolling up to the entrance. Cena also looked extremely tired and did not acknowledge any fans, even though some were cheering him (most were booing). The Rock, however, turned to the fans and told them to come inside. Cena legitimately looked out of it.

Apparently you don't understand that him being in the car which the cereal was thrown at is equal to the cereal being thrown at him, I have to ask, are you 8? Or did you just fail out of school before learning basic logic?

 

[DeadmanFan]

This happened because it was in New York City. NYC is only 1 step up from New Jersey which is the armpit of the United States. The "fans" there are a bunch of knuckle dragging, low IQ, hairyback, low income, losers.

If that took place here in Chicago (the real home of the real fans) that box of fruity pebbles cereal would have been shoved so far up that guy's ass he'd be talking like he was from New York. Over here we know the difference between real person and portrayed character. In fact, if that conference took place anywhere else (except Philly, because they are even worse) this would have never happened.

It's a real shame that is how he was treated at a press conference. But hey, what do you expect out of a bunch of classless, NYC fist-pumping, low-lifes?

Lol, seriously, lol. The self-righteousness in this post is staggering.

On another note, I didn't know that the cereal incident was when Cena was in his car. That's less bad than throwing it at his person, but it can still be considered an assault on property and thus is still crossing the line.

 

[Austinfan87]

they did the same thing to the rock when he was rocky miavia in 96/97...cena needs to turn heel right now

 

[vermilion]

It's funny how these smarks forget so quickly that The Rock was once the exact same character as Cena is now. Corny, overexposed, Superman tendencies. He never lost, was always in the main event, spent all his time trying to be funny and rip his opponents. Don't get me wrong, I love The Rock and have since I watched him turn on Mankind in person at Survivor Series 98, but nostalgia glasses are making people forget he was no different.

I'm all for booing the guys you don't like, but it's getting kinda sad with Cena. We get it, it's not cool to like Cena. It's almost cliche now though, and kinda pathetic.

 

[billm75]

I agree that fans have a right to cheer and boo whomever they wish. That's part of the fun of the show. I even enjoy the crowd chant-fights "Let's Go Cena" "Cena Sucks" It gets people into it, makes it loud and exciting.

However, I do draw the line at what happened at the press conference AND during the main event match at Wrestlemania last night. No, you don't have to like the good guy and hate the bad guy. But damn, give these guys a little respect.

The boos that were raining down on Cena weren't in enjoying the show, they were by and large, ignorant. Anything Cena tried, or pulled off successfully they boo'ed him like he just kidnapped a child and was being set free.

Come on people, hate the man, fine. Show some respect while doing it. I dislike Cena as a champion, but I admire the way the man works, all the time he donates and all the people he keeps bringing through the door. Without those people, there wouldn't be any product to watch.

For those who think the Rock is going to save things, he'll be gone again very soon. He's not going to be making a weekly appearance for long. Appreciate what you do have, you don't have to be his #1 fan, but keep the booing and jeering respectful.

But then again, today's society doesn't believe they should have to show appreciation or respect to anyone or anything but themselves. It's a selfish, self-centered world we're living in and it's only getting worse. Maybe the problem isn't the product, it's the spoiled-ass rotten people that attend the shows.

 

[Katherine]

I was close friends with someone who almost died from cancer as a child. He was in the hospital for five years and at several points, they thought he might not make it. He was offered an opportunity by the Make-A-Wish Foundation to pick one thing he would like to do. He chose to meet Bob Barker of The Price Is Right fame in person.
Barker refused to take the time to meet with him.
My point is that whether or not John Cena is an asshole or a saint in real life, he takes the time to spend with so many sick (some terminally ill) children, even after pulling a schedule that truthfully many of us couldn't pull off. So give the man a break! He deserves a ton of respect, even if it is just for that show of compassion!

 

[Cena's #1 Fan]

Ahhhh....I understand that fans pay their own money to say what they want and cheer for who they want. Many times it's taker too far(one night stand 06) that was the death of the "original" ecw for vince imo, aside from sabu trying to kill himself and rey rey.

There are unsaid standards that wwe fans possess(mostly.)

But to this Cena topic- I completely understand that he is a good guy in real life and donates millions to make-a-wish and what not. and that is great. he has my respect as a person and that is truly awesome as most people with his money and status wouldn't go to the lengths he does.

But as a wrestling standpoint, this doesn't mean the guy has to win the belt and DAMN NEAR every mania. C'mon. Fans dont want to see that(or most of them) yes he's a good guy and all that but I'm willing to bet that Peyton Manning and Drew Brees are better people than Ben Rapistberger, so does that mean that Peyton and Drew should be helped out by the league in order to give them possibilites at more super bowl rings??? No. That's just how it is.

Vince and creative need to listen to the boos. From 25% to damn near 95% of the arena or stadium boo his ass? Take a hint. They finally did sunday when miz went over him- can a heel even get a clean win anymore??

I'm not saying turn him heel or any of that. I'm saying he isn't hulk hogan. hogan was the only hogan. don't try to recreate the character. everyone is saying no one buys into the cartoonish character. supercena and cena-nation isn't a bit cartoonish? he looks like the hulk on his shirt. c'mon wwe. Look at mania 22, got his ass boo'd, mania 23 got his ass boo'd, mania 24 got his ass boo'd pretty good, mania 25 that was an awful match i'm not even speaking on it further(the WHC means basically nothing unless Taker has it) mania 26, god batista was portrayed as super heel bad guy and when they announced them cena got boo'd outta the ring damn near and batista had a great recpetion( the cheer when batista hit and boo like hell when cena hit) CENA SUCKS sign on front row camera side!! And i thought the georgia dome was gonna turn miz face by itself.

Take a hint wwe. Most fans over the age of 18 can't stand the guy as wrestling character. Yeah kids and women love him, but when guys like taker go and hhh and god forbid when you lose the diamonds in the rough kane and big show, you better hope theres another baby boom cause you'll lose money and fans. mark my words