Week 6: Gelgarin -versus- Franchize1990

[Mr. TM]

Should Vince have revived the old ECW after the success of One Night Stand?

Franchize1990 is the home debater, he gets to choose which side of the debate he is on first, but he has 24 hours.

Remember to read the rules. This thread is only for the debaters.

This round ends Friday 1:00 pm Pacific

 

[Franchize1990]

I'll say that he should have and I'll go 2nd

Look forward to an excellent debate

 

[Gelgarin]

It seems that once again the stars have aligned and I have been stranded arguing for the maintenance of the statuesque before any suggestions to the contrary have been fielded. Fortunately I think I've been handed the long end of the stick here, so I shall use my opening post to list as many reasons as I can why resurrecting the original ECW would have been a daft business decision.

Reason Number 1: ECW was not in keeping with current WWE values.

I feel as though we should have some dramatic music playing here, given that I'm building towards bringing up the dreaded PG era. Dumdumdum.

Chris Benoit murdered his wife and child. The E is still the subject of a congressional investigation into illegal drug use. Talent are constantly and publicly testing positive for steroids. Increased scrutiny is being placed on the company for racial stereotyping and homophobia... the effect of all these events is that the WWE has begun loosing the battle for the younger audience. The result... PG era WWE.

Like it or not, Vince is making a concrete effort to clean up his programming and make it family friendly again. We can argue till the cows come home about Hornswaggle and whether this particular tonal shift is to our preferences, but it's what the experts have decided to go with, and I think we have to respect that.

With that being said, that last thing new image WWE needs is a side show being promoted on every PPV that involved people using a staple gun on other people's genitalia, or people crucifying other people with barb wire or any other of the litany of uncouth stunts that were par for the course in the original ECW.

If you made the original ECW PG (Acronyms FTW) then it would totally cease to be the original ECW; and since pushing non PG television on PG shows undermines the entire process, I think we can safely say that we have one reason why resurrecting the original ECW would have been a daft idea.

But wait, there's more.

Reason 2: ECW was not in keeping with WWE business strategy.

You know the funny thing about WWE?
They run a great many shows, a few of which take place outside of Philadelphia.

That right there was me using sarcasm to diss the original ECW, but the point that comes free with the wit is that the WWE runs a very heavy touring schedule, all over the US. ECW I am sorry to say only has a history of drawing at any level across the east coast... otherwise known as the smarkyist section of wrestling fans in America.

I feel very confident that, if Vince tried pushing the original ECW product in the more conservative South, he'd meet with considerable resistance.

But wait, there's more.

Even if ECW defied all reasonable expectations and proved to be a solid draw on a national scale (it wouldn't) the show would still struggle to work with WWE's schedule. The WWE tours the country putting on house shows constantly. Guys are working multiple shows a week with no prospect of time off. Now people try to distract you with the words lucha libre a lot, but the truth of the matter is that ECW was highly dependent on garbage wrestling. I don't think I'll encounter much resistance when I point out that you simply cannot run a show off of garbage wrestling whilst keeping a WWE schedule. You'll have injuries off the charts.

The only way you could solve this problem would be to phase the garbage out of ECW, taking with it all those talents who depended on that shit to get over... after which it once again isn't the original ECW any more.
Those who saw me in the steroids debate know that I take the well-being of wrestlers very seriously, and unless my opponent turns out to be some kind of hippo clone I'm sure he'll agree that I've presented another reason why resurrecting the original ECW would be a bad idea.

But wait, there's more.

Reason 3: Vince's ECW performs a more logical function.

You see even if you overcome the problems I've laid out above... found robots to perform of something... you still run into the Sophoclean dilemma of "what is the fucking point?"

ECW as a stand alone product was drawing minimal amounts of PPV buys. Live attendance was also poor. Change the dynamic so that they're no longer selling a show but are instead selling one or possibly two under card matches on a WWE PPV and the drawing effects of the show are going to be negligible. Vince isn't running ECW as a major money making enterprise, he's running it as a talent farm. A place where future superstars such as Jack Swagger and Even Bourne come to hone their style and get some exposer before travelling to the big leagues.

That being said, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to have ECW being headlined by masters of the craft such as Christian and Finley as opposed to Raven and Subu; and it would also be a bloody sensible idea if promising new talent were being broken in to the WWE style of wrestling, rather then being taught garbage wrestling skills that they're probably never going to get to use in the big leagues. It's just common sense.

Right now ECW is proving a critical service to the WWE and developing a new cult following of its own. It's proving World Wrestling Entertainment with a shelf full of benefits whereas any attempt to resurrect the original product would have just been problem after problem after disaster. At this point I could stop as say "But wait, there's more" and mention one of the other half dozen reasons why it's a stupid idea, but to be honest I'd rather not.

Before I sign off however, I'd just like to take a moment to counter a couple of arguments that are probably going to be made at some point.

1) ECW wasn't just garbage wrestling.

No one cares.

2) ECW was revolutionary.

No it wasn't, shut up.

3) Video of RVD.

I'm not watching it. Go formulate an argument.

There; I'm done.

 

[Franchize1990]

The Rise & Fall & Rebirth of ECW​

When ECW's One Night Stand Pay-Per-View was introduced, it brought back a feeling on nostalgia to many "hardcore" fans who missed the days when crazy moments were guaranteed to happen. It was at this point where storylines featuring old ECW members could be found throughout the WWE. Vince, at this point, should've revived the old ECW full time and here are a few reasons why:

Adding a New Demographic to the Current Fan Base

There's no denying that WWE Programming today has been aimed towards a younger demographic, not to 4 and 5 year olds but still considerably younger fans. A great way to add a new target audience to the product would to bring back ECW the way it was. Reviving the old ECW, which was very popular in its dying days in the northeast region, would add an older age demographic to the WWE while still having their two main shows, RAW and SmackDown!, focused on the younger generation. The crowd at One Night Stand was full of middle aged people who were very passionate, rowdy, and loud. The mere nostalgia would help boost T.V. ratings on the Sy-Fy channel if anything.

Different Element of Wrestling

No matter the show you’re watching, the wrestling has basically become the same today. Some, if not many, people have become bored with the “pure wrestling,” limited storyline show that doesn’t have a huge edge in its product. Bringing back the ECW of old offers a different style of wrestling to the wrestling audience. Evident by the UFC crowds, fans that go to watch someone beat on somebody else want more than just wrestling, they want something that’s edgy and graphic.

Financially Able to Stay Alive and Produce

One of the major reasons ECW died out in the first place was because they didn't have the money to support its wrestlers or have a high production value. If Mr. Mcmahon was to revive the original ECW with his millions of dollars, ECW superstars would be economically stable and it could look like the other shows the WWE puts on. The original ECW has also been the breeding ground of many superstars and legends from Eddie Guerrero to Stone Cold Steve Austin to plenty in between. If ECW was to revert back to the way it once was, many superstars that can get the rowdy crowd behind them will become a superstar in the future.

 

[Gelgarin]

For the purposes of this rebuttel, I am going to work under the assumption that Franch's argument is buried in my shoulder. The reason being that he has managed to miss the point so spectacularly that I feel the only logical solution must be that he was aiming at something else.

So, for my opening gambit, I would like to run down a list of the points I brought up that my opponent decided to strategically ignore.

1. All of them.
2. ECW not having appeal outside of the East Coast.
3. ECW not being able to match WWE's schedule.
4. The new ECW offering more to the WWE product.

Now wasn't that nice. Answer: no, it wasn't. It puts poor Gelgarin in the position of having to repeat the majority of his argument, for the sole purpose of keeping this discussion on some kind of relevant course.
First however; I suppose it would be only fair for me to pay lip service to a few of the points that my opponent attempted to bring forward.

Adding a new demographic of fans.

The original ECW was running drawing one of the biggest wrestling boom periods of all time. Not only was profession wrestling a mainstream interest, but the WWF and WCW were bringing in audiences that stretched as high as 10.0 on the Neilson index.... during a single time slot.
During this almost unprecedented level of interest in pro wrestling, ECW was still only ever able to eke out a TV rating of 1.3 at best.

So, if we take that isolated figure and pretend that that number of new fans are going to watch the resurrected ECW every week (a daft ascertain, but we'll run with it) then you've still got a negligible increase in the TV audience, and certainly one no better that Vince's ECW is getting right now.

Not only that, but it's becoming readily apparent that a smarky crowd (such as watch TNA or the original ECW) are noticeably less likely to pay for a PPV in the first place. Torrents and Streams are already causing a substantial loss of revenue for the WWE, and are a significant reason why the buy rates for TNA PPV's are so low. If I had to choose between appealing to an audience of kids or an audience of smarks, I know who I'd choose.

ECW could stay alive.

ECW stays alive right now, and serves a massive benefit to the company. I don't think the same can be said for the original product.


Now... I've decided that I don't want to echo my original sentiments, so may I advise you to simply scroll up and read them again. Vince isn't going to run two PPVs a month, so ECW is going to be part of the same shows as RAW and Smackdown, meaning it has to appeal to the same demographic (or at least, not scare to key demographic away) as the key shows.

Vince's ECW was to only logical business move to make, and I'm quite glad me made it.

 

[Mr. TM]

Clarity Of Debate: Both were damn clear. Too bad I have to pick someone, and too bad for F1990, its not him. However, put him against almost anyone else, and he gets the point here. Gelgarin should, and already has, patted himself on the back.

Punctuality: Gelgarin was always on time. He gets this point.

Informative: Gelgarin brought up the most information, and thus gets the most points in this category. And that is one.

Emotionality: I have fallen in love with posts by Gelgarin. He is to me like and former Indie artist is to any University student. We love them, and look back at their old work, just to be cool. InGelgarin gets this point, and rep if he gets this bad reference.

Persuasion: I feel bad. One of my favourite debaters goes down 5-0 here. If only he was around more this week. But that being said, Gel deserves all the points here.

TM rates this Gelgarin 5 points to F1990 0.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Clarity Of Argument - I'm giving the point here to Franchize1990. Gelgarin, I admire your ability to write eloquently off the cuff, but please check grammar and spelling before submitting your posts.

Point: Franchize1990

Punctuality: Gelgarin gets the point here.

Point: Gelgarin

Informative: I'm splitting the point here, as I judge posts' factual content on a purely numerical, rather than proportional, basis. Gelgarin, you always bring in lots of information, but only half of it is ever readily verifiable. From your last debate, it's apparent to me that you know how to use the search function on this forum. So, I'd recommend using that same function to check whether or not the evidence you bring in has been mentioned on this site before. If it hasn't come from here or Wikipedia, please cite it.

Point: Split

Emotionality: Gelgarin gets the point here.

Point: Gelgarin

Persuasion: Franchize1990, it seems like you had a busy week. You had an opening post with solid information that was well-articulated, but you didn't post a rebuttal. And, Gelgarin, I have no clue what you were trying to do in the opening paragraph of your second post; you failed to anticipate Franchize1990's argument, so, why the effort to deride him on some other point? Anyway, I'm splitting the point here.

Point: Split

tdigle's Score

Gelgarin: 3
Franchize1990: 2

 

[CH David]

Clarity: Both were very clear, Franchize always has a good start, and Gelgarin always has good points.

Point: Split

Punctuality: Franchize had his plate full, no point for him.

Point: Gelgarin

Informative: In a short debate like this, it helps to have good information. Gelgarin had some very good points.

Point: Gelgarin

Emotionality: Gelgarin got frustrated in the first post, even before Franchize made an opening statement. That gets the point.

Point: Gelgarin

Persuasion: ECW right now is in a good spot. Serving its purpose with young talent. It wouldn't be the same as the original, even if Vince let it be. I must go with Gelgarin.

Point: Gelgarin

CH David scores this Gelgarin 4.5, Franchize1990 .5.

 

[Miko]

Clarity Of Argument - I found Franchize1990 easier to read

Point: Franchize1990

Punctuality: Gelgarin

Point: Gelgarin

Informative: Gelgarin had a lot of information to back him up

Point: Gelgarin

Emotionality: Gelgarin seems a bit cocky, I like that

Point: Gelgarin

Persuasion: I read throught this a few times, each time I think Gelgarin had the winning argument

Point: Gelgarin

I'll score this one

Gelgarin - 4
Franchize1990 - 1