Week 7: Lariat -versus- Franchize1990

[Mr. TM]

Is Money in the Bank the new Intercontinental Championship in terms of making Main Eventers?

Franchize1990 is the home debater, he gets to choose which side of the debate he is on first, but he has 24 hours.

Remember to read the rules. This thread is only for the debaters.

This round ends Friday 1:00 pm Pacific

 

[Franchize1990]

I'm going to say that Money in the Bank is not the new version of the IC title and I'll go first

Good Luck to my opponent. Looking forward to a great debate

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I look forward to a spirited debate as well, Franchize.

Welp, I had arguments for both sides of the table, but I can make this side of the spectrum work. I have three legitimate arguments as to why the Money in the Bank has become the new way to make main event talent.


1) The Spotlight

Whomever wins the Money in the Bank at Wrestlemania becomes an instant contender. Why? Because they're a walking title shot. They know that at any time, they can cash their briefcase in to fight for a shot at the title. With the IC title, you actually have to earn your keep by defending the belt, fending off other adversaries who want to get to where you're going, and even in doing that, you're still NOT guaranteed to become a main event talent. Honky Tonk Man, Pat Patterson, Ricky Steamboat, Santino, and Mr. Perfect are great examples of this.

2) Opportunity

One thing I've learned about the MITB is that it brings out the bad in people. Edge was sort of a tweener when he first won the Money in the Bank, and since then, he's become the "Ultimate Opportunist" for how he cashes it in. CM Punk's the same way. When you're Money in the Bank, you're guaranteed a title shot. Simple as that. Unless you put it on the line and lose it, you can hold that briefcase until the next Wrestlemania for all anyone cares. And in getting that title shot, it gives said wrestler the opportunity to be in the spotlight, and be the main event. Whereas in being IC champion, you don't even main event house shows anymore.

3) Success

ALL but one wrestler has cashed MITB and became a World Champion of some kind. Of course the one is Kennedy, but there's always an exception to the rule, and even when Kennedy had the MITB, many thought he'd be the next big thing. Becoming MITB has something the IC Title doesn't really have nowadays: Success. Edge, CM Punk, and RVD have all cashed in the briefcase and have all won titles with it. And look at CM Punk now. He went from potential mid carder with no place to go, to a Main attraction in the WWE. All because of the Money in the Bank. And he won it TWICE. So it's all in how you look at it. I see MITB as instant success at making Main Eventers.

So, has the MITB replaced the Intercontinental Title as the new way of making Main Eventers? Yes it has. Just look at the top of the heap on Smackdown right now as proof.

 

[Franchize1990]

The Intercontinental Championship: Still the Main Path to Main Event Status​

Winning the Intercontinental Championship in the WWE was and is a very big thing in the WWE. Most of the time, earning this meant that you were on your way to great things in the future. In this opening argument, I will show why that this is STILL a major accomplishment and STILL leads to main event status.

Money in the Bank Winners are IC Champions

While doing research on this topic, I found an interesting fact about the Money in the Bank winners. Many of them were IC Champions first. Also, many of the competitors in the ladder matches were former IC Title holders, the ones who wern't were on the opposite brand and held the United States Championship before participating in the match at WrestleMania. So, in order to "qualify" for a Money in the Bank match, the superstar has to prove himself, usually by holding the Intercontinental Title previously. So, while Money in the Bank is a good way to get notice for some, the IC Title is needed to become a main eventer for most.

Main Event Guys are Still Made Without Money in The Bank

As the title states, many superstars who have reached main event status didn't need the Money in the Bank contract. Guys like Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Booker T, and Randy Orton did not win Money in the Bank but, the IC Title, and are arguably some of the top stars in the company today. If you want to throw in the opposite brand equivalent belt into the mix, the United States Title, then we can also add the names of John Cena and Bobby Lashley. Also, Batista was built as a main event player without winning any secondary titles in his career. The success of today's stars don't depend on grabbing the Money in the Bank briefcase.

Main Eventers in the Near Future

The future of main event wrestlers in the WWE appear to be a great bunch of talent. Stars like Kingston, Morrison, Ziggler, Swagger, and the members of the Hart Dynasty and primed to shine bright at the rate they are going. A few of them have already won the IC Title while the others have the belt set in their sights in the next couple of years. While one of these superstars will most likely win via the ladder match at WrestleMania, a few of the others will have been previous holders of the very prestigious IC Title.

So in conclusion, the Intercontinental Championship, while it may have lost some prestige over the years, still has a big say in where you end up in the future.

 

[Franchize1990]

1) The Spotlight

Whomever wins the Money in the Bank at Wrestlemania becomes an instant contender. Why? Because they're a walking title shot. They know that at any time, they can cash their briefcase in to fight for a shot at the title. With the IC title, you actually have to earn your keep by defending the belt, fending off other adversaries who want to get to where you're going, and even in doing that, you're still NOT guaranteed to become a main event talent. Honky Tonk Man, Pat Patterson, Ricky Steamboat, Santino, and Mr. Perfect are great examples of this.

Earning your keep is essential in professional wrestling. While said champion is fending off other superstars, he is inching closer and closer to proving himself to the crowd and to his boss that he is able to step his game up and go toe-to-toe with the best. If you are in the right place at the right time during the Money in the Bank match, you can grab the briefcase, wait for the moment the champion is at his weakest and attack, then you lose the return match a few weeks or months later, and fade back into the midcard for potentially years at a time.

2) Opportunity

One thing I've learned about the MITB is that it brings out the bad in people. Edge was sort of a tweener when he first won the Money in the Bank, and since then, he's become the "Ultimate Opportunist" for how he cashes it in. CM Punk's the same way. When you're Money in the Bank, you're guaranteed a title shot. Simple as that. Unless you put it on the line and lose it, you can hold that briefcase until the next Wrestlemania for all anyone cares. And in getting that title shot, it gives said wrestler the opportunity to be in the spotlight, and be the main event. Whereas in being IC champion, you don't even main event house shows anymore.

The briefcase only gives that superstar the spotlight when they cash it in. Edge in 2005 and RVD in 2006 were in the same amount of pay per view matches as the IC Champion before the winner decided to cash the contract in. When CM Punk won Money in the Bank in 2008, he never appeared on a pay per view while the Intercontinental Champion did. So while said superstar in holding the briefcase, the opportunities to be on T.V. that's granted to him are more limited than the IC Champ's.

3) Success

ALL but one wrestler has cashed MITB and became a World Champion of some kind. Of course the one is Kennedy, but there's always an exception to the rule, and even when Kennedy had the MITB, many thought he'd be the next big thing. Becoming MITB has something the IC Title doesn't really have nowadays: Success. Edge, CM Punk, and RVD have all cashed in the briefcase and have all won titles with it. And look at CM Punk now. He went from potential mid carder with no place to go, to a Main attraction in the WWE. All because of the Money in the Bank. And he won it TWICE. So it's all in how you look at it. I see MITB as instant success at making Main Eventers.

So, has the MITB replaced the Intercontinental Title as the new way of making Main Eventers? Yes it has. Just look at the top of the heap on Smackdown right now as proof.

Let's look at CM Punk. Yes he went from potential mid carder with no place to go, to a Main attraction in the WWE but, he had a less than memorable reign as World Champion his first time around and was back in the midcard in a matter of three months. CM Punk's second reign has been significantly due to the fact that he won the IC belt and became a believable and legit contender for the main event.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Earning your keep is essential in professional wrestling. While said champion is fending off other superstars, he is inching closer and closer to proving himself to the crowd and to his boss that he is able to step his game up and go toe-to-toe with the best. If you are in the right place at the right time during the Money in the Bank match, you can grab the briefcase, wait for the moment the champion is at his weakest and attack, then you lose the return match a few weeks or months later, and fade back into the midcard for potentially years at a time.

This is true, but when you win an event like MITB, where you're practically a walking main event, you've already proven something. Punk did win the IC title, but that didn't mean they thought he was ready for the main event, if anything, they basically wanted him to still be on PPV and have a reason to be on there. Whereas when you have the MITB, you are instantly in the spotlight. People wonder during every title match during the MITB's reign as to whether or not he'll cash it in that night. The IC title, is an afterthought, unless it's a solid match. If you want to talk about a success, the briefcase has replaced the IC title.

The briefcase only gives that superstar the spotlight when they cash it in. Edge in 2005 and RVD in 2006 were in the same amount of pay per view matches as the IC Champion before the winner decided to cash the contract in. When CM Punk won Money in the Bank in 2008, he never appeared on a pay per view while the Intercontinental Champion did. So while said superstar in holding the briefcase, the opportunities to be on T.V. that's granted to him are more limited than the IC Champ's.

I'll give you an example on how this logic is flawed. William Regal. Regal was a legit IC champion. Hell, he seemed to be the man to beat for that belt. And where is he at now? Jobbing to Christian on ECW. He went from legit threat to possibly step up, to being an afterthought. Whereas the person he beat, CM Punk, ended up winning MITB, becoming a TWO time World Champion in the process, and is now the talk of the WWE. TV time or not, it's the THOUGHT of possibly cashing it in that counts. When someone's the IC champion, no one really sees them as a threat for a main event title.

Let's look at CM Punk. Yes he went from potential mid carder with no place to go, to a Main attraction in the WWE but, he had a less than memorable reign as World Champion his first time around and was back in the midcard in a matter of three months. CM Punk's second reign has been significantly due to the fact that he won the IC belt and became a believable and legit contender for the main event.

His second title became more significant because he was the first person to win the MITB, and in the process, cash it in on someone who people wanted to see as champion in Jeff Hardy. There's NO WAY Punk would be as over if he was IC champion if he wasn't MITB first. Remember that. So in essence, if you want to get your chance in the spotlight, win the Money in the Bank.

 

[Franchize1990]

This is true, but when you win an event like MITB, where you're practically a walking main event, you've already proven something. Punk did win the IC title, but that didn't mean they thought he was ready for the main event, if anything, they basically wanted him to still be on PPV and have a reason to be on there. Whereas when you have the MITB, you are instantly in the spotlight. People wonder during every title match during the MITB's reign as to whether or not he'll cash it in that night. The IC title, is an afterthought, unless it's a solid match. If you want to talk about a success, the briefcase has replaced the IC title.

To get into the Money in the Bank and become that walking main event, it can be argued that you have to win the Intercontinental Championship, or the SmackDown! equivalent title first. With the exception of Matt Hardy and CM Punk his first time, every superstar who has competed in Money in the Bank has won the Intercontinental Title or United States Championship before hand. So if you want to earn at least a spot in the match and a chance to shine in the main event, win the IC Championship.

I'll give you an example on how this logic is flawed. William Regal. Regal was a legit IC champion. Hell, he seemed to be the man to beat for that belt. And where is he at now? Jobbing to Christian on ECW. He went from legit threat to possibly step up, to being an afterthought. Whereas the person he beat, CM Punk, ended up winning MITB, becoming a TWO time World Champion in the process, and is now the talk of the WWE. TV time or not, it's the THOUGHT of possibly cashing it in that counts. When someone's the IC champion, no one really sees them as a threat for a main event title.

Like you stated, there's always a few exceptions to many rules. Money in the Bank has two of it's four winners who are no longer in the business in Mr. Kennedy and Rob Van Dam. Also, Punk wasn't seen as a real serious threat to be a real contender for a main event title because he had held the only title on a show which didn't have a lot of main event talent. It wasn't until he had a sucessful run in the #1 contender's tournament, where he beat Rey Mysterio, and won the belt from William Regal that people began seeing him as a future contender for a main event title.

His second title became more significant because he was the first person to win the MITB, and in the process, cash it in on someone who people wanted to see as champion in Jeff Hardy. There's NO WAY Punk would be as over if he was IC champion if he wasn't MITB first. Remember that. So in essence, if you want to get your chance in the spotlight, win the Money in the Bank.

I believe that there were people who wanted to see Cena remain champion when Edge cashed in the briefcase, despite the number of Cena Haters that were apperent during that time. He also cashed it in on The Undertaker after he was beaten down. So I don't think he was the first to cash it in on a fan favorite. Punk wouldn't've been as over the second time he won Money in the Bank if he hadn't won the IC Championship first. To earn your chance to get into the spotlight, win the IC belt.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

To get into the Money in the Bank and become that walking main event, it can be argued that you have to win the Intercontinental Championship, or the SmackDown! equivalent title first. With the exception of Matt Hardy and CM Punk his first time, every superstar who has competed in Money in the Bank has won the Intercontinental Title or United States Championship before hand. So if you want to earn at least a spot in the match and a chance to shine in the main event, win the IC Championship.

As of right now, I bet someone can tell you who won the last MITB before they could tell you who's IC champion at the moment. The MITB means you walk the line of being a main eventer and you're ready for the spotlight. CM Punk is the World Heavyweight Champion. Sure he was also IC champion, but he wouldn't even get a title shot unless he was Money in the Bank. Think about that. Notice when Punk was IC champion, he lost it clean to William Regal. Whereas when he was MITB, he cashed it on a prone Jeff Hardy and is now top of the heap. Many IC champions have never made it past midcard status. ALL MITB winners, except Kennedy won a World Title, which equals more success and more money.

Like you stated, there's always a few exceptions to many rules. Money in the Bank has two of it's four winners who are no longer in the business in Mr. Kennedy and Rob Van Dam. Also, Punk wasn't seen as a real serious threat to be a real contender for a main event title because he had held the only title on a show which didn't have a lot of main event talent. It wasn't until he had a sucessful run in the #1 contender's tournament, where he beat Rey Mysterio, and won the belt from William Regal that people began seeing him as a future contender for a main event title.

People seen Punk as a legit threat when he won MITB the SECOND time around. As an IC champion, Punk held down the fort of the midcard and was going nowhere. After winning MITB, instant credibility and the opportunity to be a walking main event. When you're IC champion, you're only a POTENTIAL main event down the road. Money in the Bank is exactly what is says it is for wrestlers who win the briefcase. Money...in the bank.

I believe that there were people who wanted to see Cena remain champion when Edge cashed in the briefcase, despite the number of Cena Haters that were apperent during that time. He also cashed it in on The Undertaker after he was beaten down. So I don't think he was the first to cash it in on a fan favorite. Punk wouldn't've been as over the second time he won Money in the Bank if he hadn't won the IC Championship first. To earn your chance to get into the spotlight, win the IC belt.

But when you win the MITB, you're IN the spotlight. There's nothing to earn. You're a walking main event title shot. Edge had a LONG reign as IC champion and beat up on Randy Orton and other challengers, but it wasn't until he won Money in the Bank that he became a main eventer. Without the briefcase, Edge doesn't get into the title picture. And we don't have the Edge of today. The Rated R Superstar character and his "Ultimate Opportunist" moniker doesn't come from him being IC Champ. It comes from him cashing in his Money in the Bank and winning two world titles.

 

[Franchize1990]

As of right now, I bet someone can tell you who won the last MITB before they could tell you who's IC champion at the moment. The MITB means you walk the line of being a main eventer and you're ready for the spotlight. CM Punk is the World Heavyweight Champion. Sure he was also IC champion, but he wouldn't even get a title shot unless he was Money in the Bank. Think about that. Notice when Punk was IC champion, he lost it clean to William Regal. Whereas when he was MITB, he cashed it on a prone Jeff Hardy and is now top of the heap. Many IC champions have never made it past midcard status. ALL MITB winners, except Kennedy won a World Title, which equals more success and more money.

According to the pops that Morrision's getting, I'm sure just as many people know who the IC Champion is at the moment and many of those same fans would have to think about how CM Punk ever became the World Heavyweight Champion before remembering that he cashed in MITB. When Punk was IC Champion, he beat Regal in a no DQ match and lost it to JBL on March 9th. It's easy to say all winners won the world title because there's only been five winners wheras you've had many many more IC Champions in the past.

People seen Punk as a legit threat when he won MITB the SECOND time around. As an IC champion, Punk held down the fort of the midcard and was going nowhere. After winning MITB, instant credibility and the opportunity to be a walking main event. When you're IC champion, you're only a POTENTIAL main event down the road. Money in the Bank is exactly what is says it is for wrestlers who win the briefcase. Money...in the bank.

When Punk was IC Champion, he went from feuding with a mid card guy like Regal when he was chasing the belt to feuding with a guy who was fresh from a main event fued with John Cena and HBK in JBL. So, while holding the IC Title, Punk was obvisouly being elevated into the main event picture while becoming a more legit wrestler.

But when you win the MITB, you're IN the spotlight. There's nothing to earn. You're a walking main event title shot. Edge had a LONG reign as IC champion and beat up on Randy Orton and other challengers, but it wasn't until he won Money in the Bank that he became a main eventer. Without the briefcase, Edge doesn't get into the title picture. And we don't have the Edge of today. The Rated R Superstar character and his "Ultimate Opportunist" moniker doesn't come from him being IC Champ. It comes from him cashing in his Money in the Bank and winning two world titles.

Edge was actually a main eventer a year before the MITB concept was ever created. It started around Taboo Tuesday in 2004 when he was one of the contestants the voters could choose to face Triple H. He and Beniot fueded over the #1 contendersihp up until December where the two beat each other and the title was vacated. Edge has pretty much been in the title picture ever since that time. Sure, the "Ultimate Opportunist" gimmick never happens without MITB but, Edge could've definately been the Rated R Superstar without it.

 

[Mr. TM]

Clarity: F1990 had his posts beautifully laid out. For going the extra kilometer, he gets this.

Punctuality: Lariat was on time, he gets the point.

Informative: I think there was two ways to bring this debate to the forefront, and you two took the more narrow route. This led F1990 to really pick up the pieces here, and defend all of his information against Lariat.

Emotion: Lariat def had the better emotion in this debate. Really made him seem like he just won Money in the Bank and is defending his briefcase.

Persuasion: Good debate here boys, no one shined over the other here in this. Each got one of the easy points, and each got one of the hardest points. Now if I were to pick the clear winner here, as hard as it will be, I would have to go with F1990. He really thought this through well. But I am sure other judges can see it the other way. Good job both of you!

TM scores it F1990 3, Lariat 2.

 

[CH David]

Clarity: Both arguments were clear as day. Each post carefully composed.

Point: Split

Punctuality: See TM's post.

Point: Lariat

Informative: Franchize was able to use history on the part of Intercontinental Champions to sort of say that you have to be an IC champion before you would be considered to win MITB, which seems fairly accurate.

Point: Franchize1990

Emotionality: Lariat seemed very adament about MITB, whereas Franchize just seemed real calm about the Intercontinental Championship.

Point: Lariat

Persuasion: This is a difficult choice. I mean the IC title has been around the waist of some of the greatest to grace the WWE. And MITB is still so young. But the IC title doesn't really mean too much at the moment, whereas with the briefcase, you are a bonafide threat no matter who you are. I think I have to go with Lariat on this one, for the simple fact that the IC title isn't looked at as the next stepping stone like it used to, and that if you win MITB, you are on your way up on the card.

Point: Lariat

CH David scores this Lariat 3.5, Franchize1990 1.5.

 

[Miko]

Clarity: Split point

Point: Split

Punctuality: Lariat

Point: Lariat

Informative: Franchize had the better information, I suppose he had more to choose from, still, he gets the point

Point: Franchize1990

Emotionality: Lariat seemed to be enjoying himself here

Point: Lariat

Persuasion: Sorry Franchize but Lariat has me convinced here, he gets the point for this one

Point: Lariat

I score this one

Lariat - 3.5
Franchize1990 - 1.5

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Clarity Of Debate - I am splitting the point here.

Point: Split

Punctuality - Read TM's post.

Point: Lariat

Informative - Both debaters were well prepared.

Point: Split

Emotionality - Lariat, you were aggressive, but respectful. Franchize1990, you always keep your cool, no matter what.

Point: Split

Persuasion - Tough decision, but I liked what Franchize1990 had to say more. His rebuttals were excellent as well.

Point: Franchize1990

tdigle's Score

Lariat: 2.5
Franchize1990: 2.5