WCW: For Whom The Bell Tolls, Chris Benoit vs. Goldberg

[DhA]

Goldberg dominated the Elimination Chamber until HHH used a sledgehammer, which was thrown in by Ric Flair, to pick up the win. He CAN wrestle in a cage environment. And how is Benoit ten times the worker Goldberg is? f you want to argue it's because he knows a lot of moves, fair enough, but then by that logic you have to say Malenko > Hogan too. If you want to go based on crowd connection, makign the crowd hot, playing your character well - then Hogan > Malenko but also Goldberg > Benoit and don't even try and dispute that, Goldberg was one of the biggest thigns in wrestling during his prime, whereas Benoit was always a "smark" wrestler as opposed to someone who the masses cared about.

 

[TwistofRKO]

This is Goldberg and it shouldn't even be close.

Benoit was an above average wrestler, Goldberg was a great wrestler. Benoit had the ability to last in matches and put on epic battles, while Goldberg simply won everytime he was in the ring. Neither of these two have ever competed in this match in the past, so you can't solely judge the logic on what you think they'd look like in there. Goldberg has won steel cage matches, and domniated an Elimination Chamber match.

Chris Benoit had a great talent, but ultimately didn't materialize into the dominance Goldberg displayed. I have a hard time voting against Benoit, but seeing his opponent is the dominating brute force known as Goldberg, I have to.

And enough of the silly arguement that Benoit is so much faster and quicker, it's being played out like Goldberg moves around like Paul Wright. He was an NFL player, he was pretty quick and agile for his wrestling style. It's not like he'd go for the spear and have it end up like that stupid run & miss in the turnbuckle. Batista and the Undertaker have both climbed a cage rather quickly before, not sure why Goldberg would struggle.

 

[2012isbs]

I say Benoit he has more experience in gimmick matches. A normal match I'd say Goldberg but this isn't Benoit could escape to the outside grab a few weapons of whihc Goldberg has little expereince with. Which would turn this into a great match with wrestling and spots mixed fairly well. Also I'm surprised Benoit made it this far due to his checkered past. I could be swayed though.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I'll chime in, since this is my match. I hope people and having some fun with the stipulations. I originally thought it up as a new way to run a retirement match.

This match should really go to Goldberg, but it'd be a great match-up. Benoit was a terrific athlete, but so much of his skill was centered around a pinfall or submission to end and win a match. Goldberg, on the other hand, centered himself around incapacitating an opponent with high-impact moves, which is just the kind of strategy that would work in this type of a match.

And to say that just because Goldberg didn't frequent the top rope as Benoit did means he's not agile is ridiculous. Goldberg moved around the ring like a cat. I wasn't his biggest fan, but I realized the athleticism. He was actually as agile as Brock Lesnar was, he just took less risks. Goldberg's sheer upper body strength will get him up the cage to the hammer and then to the bell. Or, he'll wait for Benoit to grab the hammer and be waiting with a spear.

Either way, this is Goldberg's match to lose, and he won't.

 

[X]

Jokes on you guys because people who want to judge it as a kayfabe tournament will likely vote Goldberg, whereas people who want to vote on some imagined "wrestling skill" will vote Benoit, when in reality that's stupid. Norcal, would you put Malenko over Hogan? No. This is that but on a less dramatic scale.

How is voting based on wrestling skill stupid? The point of this tournament is to determine who the WZ community believes is the greatest wrestler of all time. How are wrestling skills not relevent to that pursuit?

And how is Benoit ten times the worker Goldberg is? f you want to argue it's because he knows a lot of moves, fair enough, but then by that logic you have to say Malenko > Hogan too.

Benoit is ten times the worker Goldberg is, because he worked more and harder then Goldberg. How can you argue that? Goldberg spent an entire year performing matches usually lasting from 30 seconds to maybe an absolute maximum of 10 minutes. Not to mention Goldberg's wrestling backround and training are inherently inferior to Benoit's. Benoit spent years honing his craft before Goldberg even thought about becoming a wrestler. You think Goldberg was out there wrestilng house shows every other day? Benoit sure was.

Saying Benoit was a better worker isn't the same thing as saying he's a better wrestler or performer then Goldberg. It just means that Benoit had much more experience and many more hours spent working hard in long, grueling matches while Goldberg was wrestling 5 minute matches.

As for the Malenko-Hogan comparison, under the same guidelines I used above, they'd probably be equal workers. Doesn't they were equally good wrestlers, just that they spent probably the same amount of time paying their dues and wrestling long and grueling schedules, honing their craft.

If you want to go based on crowd connection, makign the crowd hot, playing your character well - then Hogan > Malenko but also Goldberg > Benoit and don't even try and dispute that, Goldberg was one of the biggest thigns in wrestling during his prime, whereas Benoit was always a "smark" wrestler as opposed to someone who the masses cared about.

Goldberg was popular because he was the WCW's answer to Stone Cold, let's not kid ourselves here. Not because of some great charisma or promo skills, Goldberg was always mediocre to average at best in that department. But he was still better then Benoit in that department, I'll give you that.

 

[DhA]

So you're rating Benoit over Goldberg because he worked more, for longer and essentially "paid his dues"? Why not put Hardcore Holly over The Rock then? Oh yeah, that's why - because paying your dues doesn't mean anything - of you're good, you're good, it doesn't matter if you shoot to stardom or get there slowly through hard work. And Goldberg is a bona fide main eventer, and for whatever reason, people liked him. Benoit, whilst likeable, and one of my favourite wrestlers, is no where near Goldberg, in terms of working a crowd/drawing (non-kayfabe) or just pure winning (kayfabe).

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

For those saying that Benoit could scramble and grab the hammer, then go to the outside and climb the other side, I say you're grasping at straws. There is nothing that Chris Benoit could do to keep Goldberg down. If he goes to the outside and tries to climb from there, I say that Goldberg is already waiting for him by the bell, ready to knock him to the floor, by the time Benoit gets there. Benoit couldn't win this match, simple as.

 

[X]

So you're rating Benoit over Goldberg because he worked more, for longer and essentially "paid his dues"?

You gotta work on those reading comprehension skills buddy, because I didn't once give any of those reasons for why I voted Benoit. In fact, I said pretty clearly that worker ability and overall quality as a wrestler were two seperate things. Go back and read it again if you'd like.

I voted for Benoit was because in my opinion Benoit was a better wrestler then Goldberg could've hoped to be. Goldberg was nothing more then a flash in the pan who got popular because he squashed everyone he faced and was WCW's attitude equivalent of Stone Cold. If Goldberg was such a legend then why did his career completely fizzle out when he joined the WWE?

Why not put Hardcore Holly over The Rock then? Oh yeah, that's why - because paying your dues doesn't mean anything - of you're good, you're good, it doesn't matter if you shoot to stardom or get there slowly through hard work.

So you're standpoint is that training and wrestling experience are irrelevent in a tournament about wrestling? Right, and I'm the one that's not making sense here.

And Goldberg is a bona fide main eventer, and for whatever reason, people liked him.

I've already told you "whatever reason". Goldberg was a flash in the pan, and didn't have half the longevity that Benoit did. Besides, Benoit was a bona fide main eventer at well, I'm not sure how you can argue that with someone who was a World Champion in both WCW and the WWE. Are World Champions no longer considered "main eventers"?

[/quote]Benoit, whilst likeable, and one of my favourite wrestlers, is no where near Goldberg, in terms of working a crowd/drawing (non-kayfabe) or just pure winning (kayfabe).[/QUOTE]

If that's how you choose to judge the contest, that's up to you. But I sure as hell wouldn't say that Goldberg achieved more kayfabe success then Benoit. Benoit won somewhere around ten to twenty times as many championships than Goldberg ever did. Goldberg only had 5 title reigns combined (World, US and Tag team). I actually counted all of Benoit's title reigns, and he had 32. Which do you think implies a more successful career? Not to mention the Royal Rumble he won, the Super J Cup, Wrestler of the Year awards.

As for the huge crowds Goldberg drew, wasn't he on top of WCW when they began losing the majority of their ratings? Was that his awesome drawing power at work?

 

[DhA]

You want to talk about drawing power? Being a bona fide main eventer? Seriously? So, he won ONE WWE World Title? Would Jeff Hardy a bona fide main eventer if he was to retire today and never wrestle again? AfetrBenoit won the WCW Title, he wrestled in the WWE mid card for YEARS before getting to the main event again, where his main fued was with Kane, he didn't even headlien the PPV where he defended the title against him. and lost it quickly to someone the WWE saw real potential in, Randy Orton. Benoti never looked "dominant" at the top, and lost to the YOUNGEST world champion ever - clean - so clearly Benoit doesn't use his experience that well. And about drawing power, are you sure you want to argue that? I'm pretty sure Goldberg's title run in WCW outdrew Benoit's in either promotion about 10 times over. If WCW dropped ratings when Goldberg was on top, I shudder to think what would have happened with Benoit on top.

 

[TwistofRKO]

You're talking 32 championships over a long career. It took years for Benoit to become a main eventer. Goldberg came right on the scene and dominated. Benoit is nothing to sneeze at, but Goldberg dominated and won those same titles in a very short span.

I don't see a way Benoit could realistically win this match. He doesn't have a move to dehabilitate Goldberg for enough time to grab the hammer and ring the bell. Goldberg has the spear AND the jackhammer.

What it comes down to is Goldberg and his ability to win. It's uncanny how he came out and dominated the way he did. Benoit was a very good wrestler, Goldberg in his prime was nearly unstoppable.

 

[MattMoses]

Goldberg spent an entire year performing matches usually lasting from 30 seconds to maybe an absolute maximum of 10 minutes.

And match length matters why? All this shows to me is that Goldberg didn't need fifteen minutes to defeat a wrestler, he could get the job done a lot quicker.

But those matches that DID last over ten minutes, especially vs. DDP at Halloween Havoc and Steiner at Fall Brawl just happen to be two of the best matches in the latter half of that decade.

Not to mention Goldberg's wrestling backround and training are inherently inferior to Benoit's. Benoit spent years honing his craft before Goldberg even thought about becoming a wrestler.

That's wonderful. But why should I care? Goldberg didn't need years of wrestling background and training to become an entertaining wrestler.

You think Goldberg was out there wrestilng house shows every other day? Benoit sure was.

Goldberg was wrestling house shows regularly during his WCW run. Both house shows I attended, he performed on, and I have a list lying around of those of which he performed on. But I don't see how this is at all any determining factor here, as I doubt you've seen any of those house shows Benoit performed on unless you was in attendance.

It just means that Benoit had much more experience and many more hours spent working hard in long, grueling matches while Goldberg was wrestling 5 minute matches.

Match length means nothing. Goldberg proved that he could put on entertaining five minute matches with the likes of Sting, The Giant, Meng and Raven.

Goldberg was popular because he was the WCW's answer to Stone Cold, let's not kid ourselves here. Not because of some great charisma or promo skills, Goldberg was always mediocre to average at best in that department. But he was still better then Benoit in that department, I'll give you that.

Goldberg was popular because he was entertaining. End of.

Goldberg was a flash in the pan

A flash in the pan? Wasn't he a main-eventer and world champion in both major American wrestling promotions? Didn't he beat every big name he was pitted against? He was never a flash in the pan during his run in wrestling.


So yeah, this would be a great match, but Goldberg wins here. Benoit has nothing in his arsenal to keep Goldberg down for a long enough period of time to climb a cage and hit a bell three times. He might have enough luck bringing the hammer down from the cage, but Goldberg just isn't going to be lying around on the mat, he's going to be ready to charge him with a spear.

A chokeslam off The Giant could only keep Goldberg down on the mat for three seconds. After that, he got up, and proceeded to spear and jackhammer him for the win. And that was AFTER going through a battle royal with eight other men. If something like that can't keep Goldberg down, what can Benoit possibly do that will?

 

[Bullet To Binary]

I agree, Goldberg would win this match. He only ever lost via cheating, and even then it was rare that he would lose. Benoit, on the other hand, probably has an equal win to loss ratio, and was really an upper mid-carder for all but a few months of his career. Goldberg made a career out of defeating people like Benoit, and making the somewhat difficult look easy. He should really win the whole competition tbh, and it's gonna take mroe than Chris Benoit to stop him - after all, there's a reason it took Benoit so long to get to the top...

 

[NSL]

I still don't understand why you all keep taking kayfabe storylines into account in this tournament--- "Goldberg would win cause he was undefeated!"...in a storyline. In WCW. How is that relevant?

Because this match is in a WCW ring, with Bischoff in control.

No matter where this match is, I'm voting for Goldberg. He was bigger and stronger, and probably just as fast as Benoit. Nowhere in the match rules, does it say you have to climb the cage. Goldberg's big enough to just stand on the top rope and ring the bell. I'm afraid of what he would do to Benoit, having him trapped inside of a cage...

 

[Miko]

I wouldnt fancy Benoits chances against Goldberg normally, but in a cage? It doesnt bode well for him, I am sure that his technical skills would throw Bill off to start with but Goldbergs used to people like him, he defeated enough of them. In the end his raw power would shine through.

Although, with these stipulations the outcome is more in doubt in my mind, after all I'd say Benoit could climb faster, and I am sure the bell or the hammer would make an effective weapon, for either party.

I am still voting Goldberg, I think he'd win this but it definately has the potential to be very interesting.

 

[gd]

I'm going with Benoit here. Goldberg may have been a beast, but I think that Benoit will be able to use his technical skills to pull of plenty of reversals and wear him down with submissions. Benoit is also quicker than Goldberg, so I think that he should be able to avoid his power moves.

I also serioulsy doubt that Goldberg can ring the bell from the top rope. I don't think he's that big. I give the climbing advantage to Benoit. I could see them both climbing the cage by the bell while Benoit has he hammer. I just think that Benoit would be able to knock Goldberg down here, which would keep him down enough to ring the bell.

 

[TwistofRKO]

Why does Benoit get the speed and climbing advantages? There's nothing there to support those claims. Goldberg was very athletic, he's not a stumbling-bumbling giant. IF Benoit even did have the advantage, it would be nothing relevant enough to give him the edge in the match.

 

[justinsayne]

As much as I dislike Godlberg he wins this match easily, this is how I see it going down, Benoit would do something dumb like try to hit the headbutt off the top of the cage, miss, Goldberg rolls into the corner and then hits Benoit with a spear and then the jackhammer, then climbs up and gets the hammer, as he's going to the other side to ring the bell, he whacks Benoit in the head with the hammer then climbs the other side of the cage and rings the bell

 

[Thriller Ant]

What this comes down to is figuring out who has the moves that can keep their opponent down while they climb the cage twice. Based on this, Goldberg will win this match. Benoit has the crossface and the diving headbutt, but he can't climb anything while locking in the crossface and the diving headbutt always did just about as much damage to him as it did to his opponent. On the other hand, Goldberg had (arguably) the most powerful spear we have ever seen, and the jackhammer, which as far as I can remember has never been kicked out of.

The arguments that he isn't athletic enough to climb the cage are ridiculous. The man is a former major college and pro American football player. He is a great athlete and can be extremely quick and explosive. Goldberg will use the two-headed monster of the spear and jackhammer and win the match.

 

[RVDgurl]

I haven't voted for Goldberg yet and I certainly don't plan to start now. I still say that he may be the single most overrated wrestler in the history of the sport. Now he's facing Chris Benoit in a match were agility, stamina and intelligence come into play. How in the hell does Goldberg have any advantage here? I just don't see it. Benoit would beat Goldberg in just about any type of match. Benoit should move on here.

 

[mills989]

Benoit gets this with his speed... I guess this gimmick could be pretty exciting but as someone mentioned earlier, I could always see this match ending very indecisively with both men tolling the bell twice until Benoit headbutts Goldberg off the cage and to the mat below to hit it the third time.