[UnOfficial] WWE vs. TNA Thread - New one active

[Dj Martyn]

Ummm....ok first reply....so ...ummm what...

Tna stars been jealous of WWE, in what aspects?? i would love to hear the arguments for that....TNA is not paying for Konnans surgery because they are not a charity, they offered to loan him the money and AAA (a close associate of TNA) offered to help as well. Tna cant be responsible for paying for every debt/problem every person on there roster has. and next....

They have stopped paying for hotels and rental cars because they are lacking in a little bit of funds rite now, as they have taken some financial risks latley with kurt/sting/PPV's outside of orlando etc. But they are paying off and this will likely be a temporary action until they re-instate it or increase wages, when possible. And as mentioned in the main news section WWE doesnt pay for the wrestlers hotels either apart from wrestlers (i am sorry....Superstars) who are in the family.

BG james....is Bg james...and his opinion is his opinion, and personally i am not sure why he cares, his pay rate is going to be one of the top 10 on the roster, and $120 out of his pay check/free choice to stay at a cheaper place anyway, ya know its not the end of the world... he should really grow up and stop whining like he has done in the past.

So theres my thoughts on your thoughts.....general concensus is that TNA is the greener pastures that WWE used to be, even without a free hotel once a month...and i am sure Konnan will be ok...Tna is not done

 

[mamasgun78]

Its really time they do a roster cut. They have so many wrestlers on there roster that they really dont need or use.

 

[lt-rko]

Well. In my opinion, TNA isn't going to stay strong, They are losing mounts of money, their not payign for superstars hotels and on top of that, Their wrestlers suck! Kurt Angle, Sting, RHino, Somoa Joe, These guys are the ones holding the company, as for my thoughts, I hope TNA is dead by tomorrow

 

[natster_2008]

hopefully TNA will compete down the road, but they still have some work to do. I would like them to grow to be as big, because then the best out of both companies will shine. I hate the way WWE is now the WCW wasting away talent and replacing it with people like Khali. His acting sucked in the longest yard, and his wrestling isn't much better. I just hope i dont have to hear an interview with him and Umaga at the same time. Jeez that'd suck! Some of TNA's stuff is kinda cheesy right now , but it'll get better once the funds are better. WWE has all the money in the world and is cheesy. As the BareNakedLadies sang... "It's all been done" . I hope im not the only one missing the old days of WCW. I hope TNA doesnt make the same mistake and lets all their talent shine for what its worth.

 

[holdemne]

and the wwe isnt declining? tna is going upwards, even if internally they have issues did u hear those tna chants during the painfully dumb rosie vs trump fight on raw?

 

[mr. x]

I agree tna is in finanacial trouble mainly due to the contract that Kurt Angle received a lot of money to come and soon he along with everyone else will be out of a job and begging Vince for there job back but who wants them. They are washed up and dont want to work that much and the WWE is not for them. This is the truth anyone who disagrees with me doesnt know a damn thing.

 

[jcdrules]

This isnt all that far fetched. A lil over dramatic at the moment, but not far fetched.
Some theories as to why:

--Kurt Angle beating Samoa Joe.
Why was this bad? Here's why:
--It basically said the whole TNA roster that had tried for over a year to beat Joe, wasnt good enough to do so, but the guy from WWE on his first try was good enough. This also didn't help Joe.

--Everyone being promised title runs.
--Rhino, Sting, Christian and possibly even Angle (rumored) were all enticed with the promise of title runs. Rhino had the ever lethal 2-day run, which was given to him just to say he was given a run. Sting wins the belt from JJ and loses it on a dq (although he did offer to be pinned). Christian had a successful title run that got killed so they can turn him into a heel and eventually job to Sting.

--Vince Russo
Plain and simple, yes Russo sucks. His story lines are terrible. VKM sucks as well.

--The mishandling of Bobby Roode
The build up for Roode's single's career was great, and then he's jobbing to Eric Young and is stuck in the middle of a E-Young vs Traci Brooks Bikini contest. Way to blow the start of what could of been an awesome heel character.

--Monty Brown
TNA will miss him. Never doing him vs JJ in a real legit feud was a huge mistake.

These are just some idea's along with the cost cutting and complete neglect of Konnan that TNA might lose that bright and shiney luster in 07. Konnan is a well respected member of that locker room. BG James threathens to quit. Once he and Rockabilly get upset watch how they go from the clown princes of TNA to jobing to D-X at survivor Series 07.

 

[johncena11]

and the wwe isnt declining? tna is going upwards, even if internally they have issues did u hear those tna chants during the painfully dumb rosie vs trump fight on raw?

lol i thot that was just me hearing VKM in my head but i guess it wasnt

 

[ExtremeRage81]

I refuse to buy that the WWE is in better shape than TNA. Yeah, better shape if you call having a stupid Rosie vs the Donald match, a nightmare PPV that was the ECW one and most of all, their heavy hitter in Triple H is out and will miss Mania. Yeah, they're in great shape. And if they think TNA isn't a threat, why are they taking notice at the fact that at BOTH ppvs for TNA, their buyrates have increased and it's because of Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle. Why? Because the key words here are wrestling. The WWE has had 3 injuries in the last two months. Candice Michelle, Joey Mercury and now Triple H. And they think that Khali and Umaga is going to be the answer to their prayers. FAT CHANCE!!!

 

[Ohmen13]

I agree tna is in finanacial trouble mainly due to the contract that Kurt Angle received a lot of money to come and soon he along with everyone else will be out of a job and begging Vince for there job back but who wants them. They are washed up and dont want to work that much and the WWE is not for them. This is the truth anyone who disagrees with me doesnt know a damn thing.

I agree, and if more 'reported' WWE guys want to jump to TNA, they may ask for big contracts like his. RVD, Mysterio etc would be hug draws for TNA, if they got those two; they would have to cut more then hotels.

 

[CRUSH316]

Triple H is only scheduled to be out 4-6 months...That puts him back maybe before Backlash but most likely before Vengeance.Who knows...Triple H may have a non wrestling role at WM..As for TNA?They're in more trouble than they realize..They need to spend a little more time enhancing their own talent instead of living off WWE's..They need to make their own name instead of banking on WWE's..They signed Christian, Kurt Angle, Rhino, Sting, Kevin Nash, DDP, Savage, X-Pac, Jeff Hardy, Team 3D and what happened?A Superstar with a promising future with TNA before the signings(Monty Brown) ended up being faded out.Brown lost two #1 Cont. matches to ex WWE superstars in Cage and Hardy.What does that say about TNA's collection of talent when They won't let them get over on the guys from WWE?Kurt ends Samoa Joe's undefeated streak when guys like Jeff Jarrett(world champion), AJ Styles, and Christopher Daniels could not.The NWA Title picture is filled with Two non traditional TNA guys...The last couple years, TNA had been trying to build stars but it seemed once they moved to Spike, they decided to abandon that and start living off names already established which is a shame for guys like Monty Brown who at one point was atop of TNA's list of potential Stars and Champions behind AJ Styles...They've ruined Title reigns like AJ's last, Rhino's, Sting's,Raven's, and Abyss' current reign ain't all that great.TNA not paying for hotels is just the start of their problems.Its been 5 years almost..I'm tired of hearing the "Give them time and they'll be a Competitor" excuse..It's been 4 and a half years...Once Eric Bischoff took control of WCW, in 2 years, they turned a profit...Now it took them longer but they had no direction..TNA is moving alot faster than WCW asfar as securing TV deals but WCW Turned a profit 2 years after Bischoff was promoted to the front office.In 1996, WCW's ratings allowed the show to be moved to Two hours and eventually 3..TNA hasn't yet adopted that type of Success and after 4 and a half years,and at their current pace of hovering around the 1.0 mark(2.5-3 points behind WWE's average)despite additions of Angle,Sting,and the Angle-Joe feud i'm starting to wonder If they ever will.

 

[iamwrestling]

Is it me or is this it for tna? not paying for konnans surgery? hotel rooms not being paid for? this doesent look good i know im about to be bashed but bg james threatened to quit already and other superstars are hatin and becoming jelous of WWE superstars in my view things do not look good, your thoughts?

How is anyone jealous? BG James threatened to quit on multiple occasions. He always does that. If anything more WWE wrestlers want to come to TNA more than TNA wrestlers want to come to WWE. Just because there's some wrestlers hating the idea doesn't mean they're mad and want to go to WWE. They're just naturally mad that they have to pay for rooms that were usually complimentary.

 

[NinjaJenn]

And to be fair, why should TNA pay for Konnan's surgery? The problems go back to before he was in TNA. AAA is doing some benefit shows, and they've set up a donation program, but I don't really see how TNA is responsible for the surgery. As for if RVD and Mysterio sign up, yeah, TNA may have some more expenses, but those two would draw more fans, more merchandising, and a greater likelihood of paying customers for tickets to events. I don't see TNA as being in a whole lot of trouble right now. Especially if Spike is offering them two hours (more ads=more money). And for all you who hate TNA, isn't there a TNA-haters posting rule here? Or maybe back it up a little more.

 

[Kasey]

flair not bein able to still produce you obviosly haven't been watchin any of his matches,

I've been watching his matches since the mid '80's, chucko. And YES, he has lost a very big step. His mobility and what little creativity he had is gone. Watch one of his matches with Steamboat, Sting, or Terry from 89-90 and tell me he isn't a dinosaur in wrestling trunks.

C.M. Punk not being pushed properly the bloody guy hasn't lost a match and is their star blossomin in ECW just because their not gonna be ******ed and give him a title after 1 month unlike TNA doesn't mean he's not being pushed

They've neutered the quality of his performances with improper booking. It doesn't matter if he's "pushed" to win if the matches suck and he fights underqualified workers that can't wrestle for $hit. He was booted out of the "Extreme" Elimination Chamber right off of the bat along with RVD (another one of the only semi-talented ones in that company, so that Test, Lashley, and Show could get the go-ahead? Are you f**king kidding me? If you or anyone else thinks that is smart booking, I feel beyond sorry for you.

a dead gimmick well for a dead gimmick it sure as hell selling a lot of merch and fans love it, as for him throwin years of character development down the drain the guy has never been a complete heel he has always gone back and forth

Yes, and the overall ratings are a fraction of what they were in the gimmick's original inception, so it doesn't look like a raging success to me. Just because some sentimental ******s want to buy a shirt doesn't validate a gimmick's intelligence or worth. They worked a series of lousy programs over the summer and stumbled into the new year. Now that I think of it, HHH is lucky he hurt himself so that he couldn't continue hurting his career by doing that $hit anymore. At least Michaels had the sense to not want to do it.

and TNA was gonna make Jeff Hardy champion the only reason they didn't was cus he was strung out on drugs all the time, and showing up late to tapings,

Newsflash: They gave Hardy a fast-tracked main event at their first ever 3-hour PPV and he'd only been in TNA for like a month. They were prepared to roll out the red carpet and give him the key to the f**king city, but then they discovered that he actually can't wrestle. Then they did the smart thing and booked him in the midcard hardcore scene doing what he's always been best at and falling off of $hit onto a table.

bitch bitch bitch all ya can do about WWE thinking TNA is the holy land when all its is WWE and if it does start to get popular you will all hate it cus they will do the same shit WWE and pretty much already have been doin, look at the dumb jackass shit they were doin, Eric Young in a bikini Contest, (holy shit another gimmick) so bitch as you must about WWE and worship your watered down brandy but one day your gonna wake up and relalize its the same shit different actors, as for me i am gonna enjoy all the brands and my sifter of V.S.O.P.

Don't get ahead of yourself, champ. It's not that I think TNA is flawless...and if you'd bothered to read some of what I wrote I stated that. TNA does have its share of problems, but the key ingredient that always shines brighter than what the WWE has done for the past two years running is the WRESTLING. My "watered down" brandy is actually worth the purchase price on Sundays...unlike the garbage that comes out of Connecticut. Do I think WWE could be great again? Hell yes. Overnight if someone with intelligence was in charge that knew their ass from a whole in the ground when it came to booking. Alas, the soap opera aspect has taken over and the shows are continually flushing themselves down the collective toilet. One day I'm gonna wake up? What the hell are you talking about? I have logic and common sense on my side and strong sense of what I like in a product. The prime thing being quality. TNA might not be firing on all eight cylinders with a one-hour show, but WWE is barely firing on two and they're the ones with six hours of prime time programming a week.

 

[Kasey]

hopefully TNA will compete down the road, but they still have some work to do. I would like them to grow to be as big, because then the best out of both companies will shine. I hate the way WWE is now the WCW wasting away talent and replacing it with people like Khali. His acting sucked in the longest yard, and his wrestling isn't much better. I just hope i dont have to hear an interview with him and Umaga at the same time. Jeez that'd suck! Some of TNA's stuff is kinda cheesy right now , but it'll get better once the funds are better. WWE has all the money in the world and is cheesy. As the BareNakedLadies sang... "It's all been done" . I hope im not the only one missing the old days of WCW. I hope TNA doesnt make the same mistake and lets all their talent shine for what its worth.

You're not the only one missing the old days of WCW. In '96 and '97 when the crowds were hot and the action was worth the hype. Khali is the antichrist as far as I'm concerned. He is a circus act that should've stayed under the big top. He's just like the Big Show. Pushed for his size and freak factor...not for his talent. Besides, Khali is dangerous. Hell, there's a California family that no longer has their son because Khali is such a $hitty wrestler.

 

[Kasey]

I never said they didn't have gimmicks. I said their gimmicks weren't as bad. I also said that everyone says TNA is full of bad gimmicks, but no one says anything bad about WWE's gimmicks. Yes, they are gimmicks, and TNA has done some stuff that hasn't been good. The jackass stuff was stupid. The bikini contest was stupid (but better than anything the WWE has done in the same caliber). I haven't liked everything they have done...but it is still the better product IN MY EYES! Again, this is all subjective...

Preach on, man. I'm on the same boat as you. I don't think TNA is working anywhere near their best level, but I'll take their B-game over what's coming from TitanSports these days. The thing that agitates me most about WWE is that they have access to some of the best talent in the world and with their media connections and marketing power could take wrestling to a level on par to how it's respected in Japan if they actually made the effort instead of force-feeding Khali and the Trump-Donnell connection down our throats. The jackass and bikini stuff was retarted. Thankfully it's over and didn't last very long. I can't say the same for certain "bled-to-death" gimmicks up North.

 

[Kasey]

They need to spend a little more time enhancing their own talent instead of living off WWE's..They need to make their own name instead of banking on WWE's..They signed Christian, Kurt Angle, Rhino, Sting, Kevin Nash, DDP, Savage, X-Pac, Jeff Hardy, Team 3D and what happened?

Christian was a necessity because they only had one legit heel in Jarrett who actually had mic skills and could draw heat on a dime. Angle being underpushed would be the most retarted thing in the world as he's deserving of every clean win he gets. He's a legit wrestler who is also one of the best "sports entertainers" of the last decade...bar none. The fact that Samoa Joe went head-to-head and got the second win from him cleanly says that TNA guys can't just have a good match with the WWE's most elite superstar, but can even beat him. Rhino has been used to help anchor their midcard and keep interest in the hardcore scene with regards to old ECW fans who don't watch the horse$hit on Tuesdays. Nash isn't even wrestling but is there strictly to get over the X-divisioners at present. Macho Man hung out for two whole nights, so I fail to see why he makes any difference in the long run. X-Pac was a solid addition to the X-division but he let his body go to $hit, thus his workrate went with it. Team 3D is one of the best teams of the last decade, so them being wasted by the WWE is probably one of the dumbest things in the world considering WWE's tag division is a joke with the exception of less than a handful of teams. Even though they've wrestled their asses off, they've held the tag titles a total of 0 times. Not exactly like they were pushed to the moon as they jobbed to the hometown boys AMW numerous times to show the local boys' street cred. Hardy was given the red-carpet treatment upon arrival, but after he stunk up the main event at the first BFG, they were wise not to give him anything more than a perennial position jocking the midcard as they found out he has the ring psychology of an orangutan. TNA is focusing on getting their own talent over. Hell, Christian and Sting were brought together recently strictly to help further Abyss' character development. Styles and Rhino are being given the go-ahead on their own feud so that Styles can work on some of his own personality and create a fresh matchup instead of them recycling the same feuds over and over again.

A Superstar with a promising future with TNA before the signings(Monty Brown) ended up being faded out.Brown lost two #1 Cont. matches to ex WWE superstars in Cage and Hardy.What does that say about TNA's collection of talent when They won't let them get over on the guys from WWE?

Monty was given tryout after tryout and he couldn't cut the mustard in doing anything more than a Goldberg-esque squash match. He was given a title shot against Jarrett on Impact and not even Jarrett could help carry his dead ass. His title shot against Cage was further proof that he can't carry a match past ten minutes. As for him losing to Hardy? Who cares? They both suck.

Kurt ends Samoa Joe's undefeated streak when guys like Jeff Jarrett(world champion), AJ Styles, and Christopher Daniels could not.

And those guys all wrestled solid matches against Joe that were worth the money every time. Losing isn't so bad and isn't really doing the job when they're in the ring killing each other for twenty-plus minutes each time in a bunch of match-of-the-year candidates. It means that the match was close and that down the stretch anything can happen. Besides, Joe got the first submission victory on Angle in as long as I can remember (since Taz I think). That definitely speaks for something considering the rep Angle has as a legit shooter and the amazing tapouts he's forced with WWE elite in the past.

The NWA Title picture is filled with Two non traditional TNA guys...The last couple years, TNA had been trying to build stars but it seemed once they moved to Spike, they decided to abandon that and start living off names already established which is a shame for guys like Monty Brown who at one point was atop of TNA's list of potential Stars and Champions behind AJ Styles...

That was part of the condition of getting the show. Spike didn't want a roster full of unknowns and that's been well documented. TNA tried it the completely fresh route originally and it got them a one-year stint on Fox Sports of all places in a basement slot on Friday afternoons wrestling for no one. Guys like Sting won't be pushed forever and he was actually brought in to help further newer talent.

TNA not paying for hotels is just the start of their problems.Its been 5 years almost..I'm tired of hearing the "Give them time and they'll be a Competitor" excuse..It's been 4 and a half years...Once Eric Bischoff took control of WCW, in 2 years, they turned a profit...

TNA is making their talent be more fiscally responsible because they can't ever hope to compete with Vinnie's show if they can't scrimp and save to take their own show on the road. Notice the correlation between these cost-cuts and TNA announcing the end of the UWF partnership? Not a coincidence by any means as they probably plan to start touring in the next year or so after running a few PPVs outside of Orlando.

Uncle Eric also had COMPLETE support from the CNN towers and was given a Monday night slot at the drop of a hat because Daddy Warbucks owned the friggin' network and gave him whatever he needed/wanted. TNA doesn't have that advantage. TNA is a business entity that has to be way more fiscally responsible. WCW was seeping $14 million a year and was only kept alive because Turner was a personal fan of wrasslin' and almost had the plug pulled on it completely when Bischoff took it over. TNA has to fight for their own network spots and is starting fresh whereas the WCW shows had a long history of being broadcast on TBS (as the NWA) and eventually TNT. You're comparing apples to oranges in this respect. Dixie can't just afford to go crapping out money when the business is in a McMahon-induced recession. If she'd have done that TNA wouldn't have made it into this year.

Now it took them longer but they had no direction..TNA is moving alot faster than WCW asfar as securing TV deals but WCW Turned a profit 2 years after Bischoff was promoted to the front office.In 1996, WCW's ratings allowed the show to be moved to Two hours and eventually 3..TNA hasn't yet adopted that type of Success and after 4 and a half years,and at their current pace of hovering around the 1.0 mark(2.5-3 points behind WWE's average)despite additions of Angle,Sting,and the Angle-Joe feud i'm starting to wonder If they ever will.

TNA isn't moving any faster than WCW as Eric's crew already had a built-in network to start on and a Monday Night slot opposite Raw that they got just because he asked for it. WCW also saved money because the network they were on was also the parent company so they don't have to make any monetary concessions or even negotiate when they're all the same company, nahmeen? Ted put his foot down and wrestling was a priority on TBS and eventually TNT. TNA is following along a lot of the same patchwork that Eric laid when he took WCW over, anyway. They broadcast out of the same joint that WCW did when they were moved out of quarter-full arenas (which is the prime reason they began saving money in the first place as touring was killing them). TNA can do a lot if they're given some of the same media exposure that WWE has. WWE is entrenched in the hillside so to speak and TNA is climbing up the hill in this battle. IF their tie-ins such as the video game take off with the younger crowd, and they are eventually given a two-hour slot on Mondays to fight Raw than it could get interesting, but to say they don't have a shot at being competitive in the future is ludicrous. They're moving in a much better fashion than Heyman did with ECW financially, so I look for them to be around for a while.

 

[Kasey]

How is anyone jealous? BG James threatened to quit on multiple occasions. He always does that. If anything more WWE wrestlers want to come to TNA more than TNA wrestlers want to come to WWE. Just because there's some wrestlers hating the idea doesn't mean they're mad and want to go to WWE. They're just naturally mad that they have to pay for rooms that were usually complimentary.

BG has nowhere else to go anyway except indy bookings or Japan. He has a much better chance trying his best in TNA during the twilight of his career than he would going elsewhere so I see this as a smokescreen. Either that or he's stupid beyond belief. He's in a hot segment that at least has everyone talking, and at this stage of the game that's probably the best he can hope for. There is no other outlet of American wrestling that'll allow him to be on TV. They got used to the accomodations and now that the company is forcing them to buckle down so they can actually take the show on the road, they're pissed.

 

[Dj Martyn]

Also what amuses me is, people keep saying TNA is in financial trouble, they are sturggling, i want to see the justification for this, just because you read on the wrestlezone that they are dropping hotels have paid a bit for big stars, they have also just gained more money going prime time, they have also increased PPV buys, added better sponsorship deals to there PPV.


You know what... read kaseys post, its all there, i am fed up of TNA vs WWE arguments anyway, if you dont like one or the other, just leave it, I like both....o shit....

The bottom line is TNA has built themselves up over 4 years and are getting there one way or another...WWE has been in buissness for ages and is on a decline, and its not just my opinion its not just fans of TNA's opinion, its a general consensus, both within the industry and on the forums in the heads of fans like myself. I am not saying WWE is shit, i am not saying TNA is inpeccable, but one right now is regarded higher in my opinion and the other has dropped in alot of other peoples opinions.

 

[Downward Spiral]

Here's the thing, after watching the Donald vs Rosie fiasco, it seems clear that this is the lowest the WWE ever has and ever will get. In saying that, there is only one place to go: Up. Vince was there first-hand to hear the crowd chanting TNA, so it could be the awakening he needs to get out of this celebrity slump. What this means for TNA, is that if they are still a league below in popularity at the WWE's lowest, how can they possibly compete with the WWE when and if they ascend to their once dominating popularity? To me, it is still the minor leagues because of this. Sure the fans can continue to chant TNA, but the irony is that they are doing it at WWE shows the whole time. Tna is yet to leave a mark on the majority of wrestling fans, mostly because it will never reach the marks, because whilst smarks may want to uphold the traditional form of pro wrestling like in the '70's, '80's and '90's, this will never reach or impress todays traditional fan. The reason the WWE doesn't put on technical wrestling showcases is because the ones they have done lately have garnered very little heat from the crowd. London vs Kendrick was full of CW moves that most smarks crave, yet the audience was half-dead for it. If TNA wants to do this, they will have to put up with remaining in the doldrums of wrestling products while the WWE can only go up. If TNA pleases you, go for it and worship that show. Don't waste your time chanting for it after you've just paid for another company. If the WWE gets better (1 good WM will do it) you will see the TNA chants die down, and thus this 'flavour of the month' TNA, will disappear off most fans radar. I'm not saying that this will happen, but surely the WWE can do better, and how could it get any lower? Barring a great improvement in TNA, I don't see it ever competing with WWE...not even at the WWE's lowest. Vince brought them to the top and he can build on that again.

That was a little jumbled and not my best post, but I get pissed off that people keep bagging on the WWE when they could just go and leave it to the 'real' fans of the product to watch the show. Seriously, it's been a year since all the chants started. Just go to TNA and leave the WWE if you hate it that much.

 

[Kasey]

Dude, once upon a time the American masses that attended a WWE event had the patience and foresight to appreciate what once went on inside of a cruiserweight match. The problem is that McMahon's shows are booked in ass-backwards orders to make better quarter hour ratings and they still make the same mistake of doing marathon tapings at one shot and airing the results of a burned out audience (and sometimes piping in fake crowd responses like WCW Thunder did). When they used to book shows that ran in crescendo fashion the response was better throughout the night. The problem with us just going over to TNA and leaving the WWE where it is lies within the fact that us wrestling smarks actually respected and viewed the WWE product at one time and the fact that they do have loads of talent within their ranks that is pissed away instead of being used in a meaningful fashion (if not in WWE, then elsewhere at least). Today's traditional fan has the attention span of a tree most times, but good wrestling should still be the cornerstone of the business. Look at the ratings of the previous decade by comparison to what is going on now. It's beyond apparent that the new formula isn't reaching but a fraction of the total viewing audience WWF, WCW, and ECW once reached. It shows that this "entertainment" strategy is pissing business down the drain, plain and simple. I'm harsh on the product because I expect more from the dominant company on the planet. So should you.

 

[lt-rko]

RATED R SUPERSTAR316,

your are 100% right! TNA is the minor leagues, IF you want to hit it big in life, you need the WWE, Rhino, Kurt, Christian, These guys are just scrap of WWE, WWE has all the greats,




So just to follow up wat RRS316 SED but better, TNA is talentless !



Totally Nonstop Yawning

 

[Downward Spiral]

Yes, but is this the way to best attract an audience? I would say yes, because it appeals to the young generation to see bikini contests and the like. Right now, Raw is usually by itself at a venue, whilst the lowly ECW is put with SmackDown, which are the B-Shows of the WWE. Does the WWE really care whether the 'burned out' audiences cheer for ECW? Wrestling over the decade and in the Attitude era wasn't just technical wrestling. It was the moments it had, particularly with the raging face Stone Cold. Today, the WWE lacks that intensity, and lacks that one stand-out wrestler. You can't judge a shows quality by how they pace the show that is best for the audience and best for gaining good ratings. If they put the worst matches first, what's the chance of the viewer staying interested? I would like to see more wrestling, but that would stretch the time of the show. And like I said, the so called 'crap' the TNA fans call the WWE product today, has been going on for over a year, so instead of threatening to leave and criticising it constantly, bite the bullett and give it up if you think that they can never resurrect themselves or the talent is wasted. You can't blame children either for having short attention spans. I'm sure if they slowly alter the context of the shows and matches, you will get to see some good wrestling again. If that ever happens, TNA will lose the one thing they had going for them: Wrestling skill. Booking improvements will help crowds, but you can't say that if they did an ECW taping that they would get a good crowd - thus the 'marathon' bookings. BTW, does anyone really know if they use fake crowd noises. It is probably just a rumour the IWC came up with (the WWE one, not the WCW one.) The traditional fan has changed - get used to it.

 

[Kasey]

Yes, but is this the way to best attract an audience? I would say yes, because it appeals to the young generation to see bikini contests and the like. Right now, Raw is usually by itself at a venue, whilst the lowly ECW is put with SmackDown, which are the B-Shows of the WWE. Does the WWE really care whether the 'burned out' audiences cheer for ECW? Wrestling over the decade and in the Attitude era wasn't just technical wrestling. It was the moments it had, particularly with the raging face Stone Cold. Today, the WWE lacks that intensity, and lacks that one stand-out wrestler. You can't judge a shows quality by how they pace the show that is best for the audience and best for gaining good ratings. If they put the worst matches first, what's the chance of the viewer staying interested? I would like to see more wrestling, but that would stretch the time of the show. And like I said, the so called 'crap' the TNA fans call the WWE product today, has been going on for over a year, so instead of threatening to leave and criticising it constantly, bite the bullett and give it up if you think that they can never resurrect themselves or the talent is wasted. You can't blame children either for having short attention spans. I'm sure if they slowly alter the context of the shows and matches, you will get to see some good wrestling again. If that ever happens, TNA will lose the one thing they had going for them: Wrestling skill. Booking improvements will help crowds, but you can't say that if they did an ECW taping that they would get a good crowd - thus the 'marathon' bookings. BTW, does anyone really know if they use fake crowd noises. It is probably just a rumour the IWC came up with (the WWE one, not the WCW one.) The traditional fan has changed - get used to it.

Bringing up Steve Austin only helps win my argument for me as he was a sound technical wrestler who happened to brawl as well. His matches were paced in the old-school fashion and he could carry a crowd to twenty minutes, unlike the "Ten-minute Men" Batista and Cena. I'm all for a small glimpse of tits and @$$, but when you have the chicks botching wrestling moves and pissing away airtime for weeks on end, it degrades the product to basement levels, when that time could be better spent developing credible wrestling to go along with the advanced storylines. WWE has a handful of wrestlers they could use to be standouts. Rock and Austin weren't $hit upon their debuts and were as bland and mundane as it gets. Once they were developed and seasoned...only THEN did they reach the high mark everyone remembers. WWE apparently doesn't care if the audiences cheer as they turn the lights down way low for ECW and because both shows are horrible in nearly every aspect, you can't really guage whether the pre-recorded mess is containing legit crowd response or not. If I was them I'd care about both products. They should've taken the advantage they gained by swallowing WCW and ECW and saturated the wrestling market so that TNA would've never been allowed to begin. I won't bite the bullet as I'm a diehard wrestling fan period, and if I'm going to critique something, I'm at least going to watch it so I know what the hell I'm talking about. Children and adults in the crowd suffer from that problem. The issue is that it used to be a case where the WWF main events could run thirty plus minutes and the fans had enough patience and respect to appreciate what the hell was going on (they also typically had better performers wearing the titles).

Because of the bad booking, it's reduced the attention spans to minute levels. The fact is that ECW wasn't designed for the clueless masses and when WWE was dumb enough to take it to one of ECW's old haunts (Hammerstein) the fans $hit on the product because they're not stupid lemmings. Vince wants to remake it into something he can manipulate, but ECW isn't designed that way and never was. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice that when a crowd "oohs" or "aahs" and there is ZERO movement, that it is piped in to cover up for the fact that half the crowd is asleep. I know how to spot this crap because I used to watch every episode of Thunder when this garbage was commonplace. The traditional wrestling fan has de-evolved and has turned into a moron who waits for the Goldberg-esque finish in a match. I won't get used to it because I respect the business and the abilities of those who aren't a walking gimmick with no wrestling talent and I damn sure won't keep quiet because I know it can be better.

 

[Downward Spiral]

You are a passionate man. I brought up Stone Cold as an example as to why the WWE has gone down: They have lost the impact moments and superstars. Wrestling should be about enjoying it, and there are many ways of doing it. With that comes many different fans. You have got to respect that. All aspects of wrestling are not going to please every single fan, and if they can get more fans by having entertainment rather than wrestling, you can bet they'll go for it. I think one thing we can agree on is our hatred of ECW. Instead of having the big names like RVD, Test and Lashley, they should be given young, talented wrestlers like CM Punk, just to build up their talent and gauge on the crowd reactions to good wrestling matches. The women today aren't going to be superstars in the ring. I'm sure the competition in the women's division is at the same level as well in TNA. If I was the WWE, I would scrap women's wrestling matches if they get little reactions. Any man loves a bit of those women, so if they are used as eye candy, and just that it would help.

Perhaps looking at longer matches and innovative ideas on PPV's could help. A match that has a lot of spots helps interest levels stick, but the fans don't really want long matches and would rather support their favourite wrestler. I wouldn't insult the main fans of a product just because they like a different aspect of wrestling that you do. This is the ignorance I talk about. It is not always about the smark.

Tell me Kasey, is there ANYTHING you like about todays WWE?