Too much talk of Heel/Face Turns?

[Fansince1992]

I have read through quite a lot of threads on these Forums, and one of the main things us fans constantly talk about is Heel/Face turns.

Recent turns (that actually happened) have been The Big Show and Christian.

People tend to want a Wrestler to turn because they find them boring or stale in thier current role. Sooo many people have said John Cena should of turned Heel at Wrestlemania, People want Randy Orton to return after his suspension as a heel. The Miz has been mentioned a lot, and most recently people are pineing for Dolph Ziggler to turn Face. Punk, Kane, Bryan, Sheamus and plenty more have been mentioned that people would like to see them turn.

I understand a Heel/Face turn can reinvent a Wrestler to make them more interesting, funny, intense, cruel, or evil etc.

What do you think?

Should WWE Face/Heel change a stale Wrestler more often?

or

Are we as fans overly using the Face/Heel thing a bit to much?

 

[DAMAN2000]

I think that we should stop wanting people to turn face because we like them. You talked about ziggler. People want him to turn face because they like him. I would hate to see dolph pandering to the crowd. he is good in his cocky arrogant roll.
If it's not broken... don't fix it!

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

First of all, Heel/Face turns aren't needed in Pro-Wrestling. Good guys / Bad guys aren't needed. Wrestling should be about competition.

No Face/No Heels. People should cheer for whoever they want to. Not cheer someone because he is supposed to be a "good guy" or boo someone because he is supposed to be a "bad guy". Fans should cheer whoever they like based on their skills etc.

This whole face/heel thing is kind of stupid as Pro-Wrestling isn't a movie, it is a sport with predetermined or fixed decisions. All wrestlers should be tweeners (neither heel nor face)


Listen to what Vince McMahon says while introducing the Attitude Era.

[YOUTUBE]HznErMk97B4[/YOUTUBE]

Vince McMahon says : We, in the WWF, think that you, the audience, are quite frankly, tired of having your "intelligence insulted". We also think that you're tired of the same old simplistic theory of "Good Guys VS Bad Guys". Surely the era of "The super-hero urge you to say your prayers and take your vitamins" is definitely, passe.

 

[LeviCook]

Before i get on with this topic i just wanna say i can't believe someone said having faces and heels is stupid. That it's competition and that's where the entertainment comes from. The competition is scripted, they aren't actually competing. People wouldn't watch just for wrestling. If that was the case people could go down to their local high schools. People want stories. That's why people always complain when they mess a storyline up. Storylines are essential in wrestling along with faces and heels. People want the feuds, the excitement, the drama, and everything else. That's why so many great wrestlers haven't gotten over because they can't provide what the fans want. I can't believe as a wrestling fan you could sit there and say that's it not needed. That is crazy.

Now onto the actual topic. I think WWE should have more face and heel changes more often. But they shouldn't over do it, sort of like TNA. There is a good balance that can be found. Any time there is a change especially with a big name it automatically creates interest. I do think people ask for it to much and believe that as a solution to various problems but it can also create better programming. At least 90% of the "WWE Universe" want John Cena to turn heel. And every year we say "it's finally gonna happen" and it never does. That is an example of a mistake on WWE's part. Now with that being said i wanna clear up i'm speaking from television stand point not saying it would be the best idea market wise. But almost everyone wants to see it. I don't see why you wouldn't want to give the fans what they want. And it's not like they have no idea. When the fans want something, WWE hears it and reads it. And Cena even addressed it in a promo. They need to have these switches when needed. So to sum it up, WWE to little, TNA to much. Even though i didn't speak on TNA i'm sure it's pretty obvious.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I think that we should stop wanting people to turn face because we like them. You talked about ziggler. People want him to turn face because they like him. I would hate to see dolph pandering to the crowd. he is good in his cocky arrogant roll.
If it's not broken... don't fix it!

As a man who recently created a Dolph Ziggler face turn thread, I can honestly say I did NOT create it because I like him. I created it because he has become very stagnant in his current role and the WWE needs to shit or get off the pot with him. If they keep him heel he at least needs to develop in some way. He's practically turning into ADR by now.

Anyways, you can't have face/heel turns very often because then they begin to lose their meaning and their luster. Also, if executed poorly, they can hurt a wrestler more than help them, see: Mr. Anderson, TNA. Also, you can't just turn anybody. Some people cannont be both. Look at wrestlers with high flying moves. Their moveset is too well liked by the crowd for them to be effective as a heel. While John Morrison cut better promos as a heel, he's too much fun to watch for a crowd to really hate watching him. Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne, all too fun to watch to hate.

But some people who become so stale it's effecting their abilities to get over it should be considered for. But it also has to be someone who people care about for it to really matter. Is Mason Ryan a heel or face now? Who cares? And if he "turned" on TV, would anyone really care? No.

 

[akrassikauda]

First of all, Heel/Face turns aren't needed in Pro-Wrestling. Good guys / Bad guys aren't needed. Wrestling should be about competition. .[/I]

HAHAHAH! compitition in pro wrestling the only way you are going to see real compition is in amateur wrestling.

This whole face/heel thing is kind of stupid as Pro-Wrestling isn't a movie, it is a sport with predetermined or fixed decisions. All wrestlers should be tweeners (neither heel nor face)[/I]

LMFAO. So for generations it's been called the male soap opera for nothing. Only marks love the word tweeners but hate the ultimate in their case tweener. You know the guy who's seen as a super hero and does bad and humiliating things to bad people yet is loved and hated by so many but by smark standards he's the definition of tweener but they want tweeners.You know that guy.Tweeners= the dumbest thing ever put into the lexicon of the IWC.

Vince McMahon says : We, in the WWF, think that you, the audience, are quite frankly, tired of having your "intelligence insulted". We also think that you're tired of the same old simplistic theory of "Good Guys VS Bad Guys". Surely the era of "The super-hero urge you to say your prayers and take your vitamins" is definitely, passe.

You actually bought that shit really. This is why Vince is one of the greatest people in the history of entertainment.He says that and you buy it hook,line and sinker then 2 minutes later gives you the Good Guy Stone Cold Steve Austin vs the Bad Guy Mr. McMahon and his Corporation.

If it wasn't for stupid marks how would I have fun on this site.

 

[Headman]

Ive said this in a couple of those "Face/heel turn" threads. I don't believe a change in alignment is necesarry to change a character. There are plenty of ways to freshen up Dolph Ziggler and others without turning them face. It's usually a kiss of death to turn a mildly over heel face so people who want this should reconsider their position.

 

[Ithil]

It's not a rule, but it IS a common occurence in the WWE that when heels turn face, they lose a great deal of what makes them entertaining.

WWE seems to only like safe, easy faces that are calculated and packaged. Worst of all they model faces on Cena's terrible character now.

Even a long time ago, faces tended to become very one note and repeat catchphrases instead of being interesting to watch as they were a a heel. Even The Rock, at the height of the Attitude Era, was hit by this, while he was of course hilarious as a face, he was better as an ultra cocky heel in $800 shirts who attacked everyone on the mic rather than a catchphrase spewing face in a merch shirt.

Punk has been completely neutered as a face, he's still entertaining enough but all the bite has gone from him, his promos are increasingly lame (I mean, that "goatface" crap from RAW? That's something Cena would say, not CM Punk). Problem is the writers are stuck in Cena mode for their top faces, look at Sheamus, he's the same boring, pandering character who is completely vanilla and targeted to the kids. All the fire he used to have is gone.

At least Punk and Sheamus still consistently deliver in the ring.

It doesn't have to be this way, look at Stone Cold, when he turned face in 1997, he continued being the same hell raiser, he was just cheered now.

Anyway, on the subject of current heel/face turns, I think the likes of Orton work better as a heel, but there's no longer any way to turn him. He's only a face because the crowd were cheering his heel character. He'll have to remain an anti-hero face, even if it's dull. Ziggler...well, he might actually WIN as a face, but his fast talking promo style is suited to a cocky heel, not a face (of course, there's no reason such an entertaining guy wouldn't be cheered, just direct his promos towards heels and DON'T change them to be pandering). Look at Christian, he lost nonstop last summer, now he's a face and hasn't lost a match.

The likes of Barrett or Cody, should not turn under any circumstances, they are great heels and the main event is sorely lacking in heels. Others like Bryan are working great as heels, no reason to change that.