TNA Region, Fourth Round, 60 Minute Iron Man: (1) John Cena vs. (4) Bruno Sammartino

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

Good match you have chosen. Now, let's go back and discuss other long matches were Cena has been involved in:

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Noticed anything in this matches about John? Hopefully yes. The thing is/was John into the match within 30 mins. or so, looked like he was barely into the match 5 minutes. Like KB said in one of his reviews for this matches "Cena proved himself to be a superman".

I know Bruno has proven in his time he can last in hour long matches, but Cena has proven it further he can longer and smoother. Now, add up the fact of Cena's moves, agility, and all that good stuff and he'll show you he'll out do Bruno in this match.

Also, don't bring up the fact that Cena lost both those matches as their is a different between an 60 minute match, were you can pick up as many wins as you want, and a one fall match.

P.S. Also, don't bring up the Cena-Orton match cause that match was an hour long match, but it was No-DQ. Which explains Cena needing time to get up.


Vote El Cena!

OK, not only are you not taking into account that Cena is fighting people that rarely wrestle matches of those length (Michaels did however wrestle the Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania 12), not only are you taking into account that neither of those guys are Bruno, possess his endurance or were as big as him at the time but the fact is, Cena is LOSING to lesser opponents than Bruno in those matches.

If anything, you've proven my point even more.

OK, let's address the slightly less cretinous stuff.

Cena looked as if he was "five minutes in" because Cena currently had the offence in the match. Such rules could easily be applied to Bruno.

It doesn't matter whether it's one fall or multiple. Actually, it does, because Cena got pinned 5 times in an hour by Randy Orton, so if anything, he's at an even greater disadvantage.

How does that explain that Cena needs time getting up?

Please step away from the thread. You're alienating Cena supporters at the moment, and I want this to be a fairer match without you sabotaging your teams chances.

 

[Big Sexy]

My point is that Sammartino is the bigger star. He should win.

He isn't though.

And you're a Cena mark that thinks he transcends the WWE name. He doesn't. His movies were nothing. He does cable TV programs [woopty fucking doo.] Big Show has done so, Edge has done so, Miz has done so, Punk has done so. I guess they all "transcend" WWE too right? Guess who else did television programs? Bruno.

Lol Cena mark? The guy isn't in my top 5 of favorite current wrestlers. I wouldn't even put him in my top 10. I just respect the guy for all he has done in this business. And of course other guys have done shows and movies as well but none have made the number of entertainment appearances outside of wrestling that Cena has. He is a fixture at kid's award shows and the like. He does it all as the face of the WWE.

Cena is not the type of person the average person over the age of 35 that aren't wrestling fans would recognize or care about. WWE as a company on the other hand, everybody knows what they are. Even most senior citizens will know what WWE is just from the fact that they are "pro wrestling". But LOL trying to get any of them to tell you who John Cena is.

Of course more people know a top worldwide company over one person, but to say that no one outside of wrestling knows John Cena is simply ignorant. Now you are switching it from no one to no one over the age of 35? People know Microsoft more then Bill Gates and Apple more then Steve Jobs but that doesn't mean a lot of people don't know their names as well.

The majority, yes. Average people aren't going to associate with WWE and WWE products if they aren't fans. If they did then his movies would have grossed way more. 12 Rounds even flopped. As it stands See No Evil remains the most successful WWE movie. I guess Kane is more successful crossover star than Cena

So the majority of people who watch network shows like SNL and Good Morning America are all wrestling fans too? Cena is everywhere in the media for the WWE. He is used more then any other superstar to promote shows/the company/the network/everything WWE related. Don't be so simple minded.

The kids are the wrestling fans. The parent's aren't. Kids are the WWE's primary target audience. Not adults. Ask any adult with kids over the age of 15 who Cena is and they aren't going to have a god damn clue.

Cena has been on top for a decade. All the 15-18+ year old kids who were or still are wrestling fans now were once little kids who likely idolized John Cena

And Cena gets to utilize that role as often as he does because of WWE's working relationship with Make A Wish. He's certainly not the first wrestler to grant wishes. He just so happens to be the most popular wrestler in a company that gears itself towards children. Makes sense that he would be the all time wish maker.

Maybe you didn't see what I said. Cena is the most popular Make A Wish choice PERIOD. He isn't just the most popular wrestling choice. He beats all celebrities in the history of the organization and it isn't even close. The organization has been around since the 80's so that is a huge testament to his popularity.

Wrestling back then wasn't viewed then like it is now. Wrestlers were still treated as legit athletes instead of sports entertainers. In the 60's and 70's fans were still treating wrestling like a spectator sport. Like boxing. Lou Thesz's name was just as big as Joe Louis's or Mohammad Ali's. Bruno wasn't any different. And if you don't think so then I suggest you do more research.

And no, Bruno wasn't just primarily known in the Northeast. He was known everywhere in the world. Even in obscure places like Venezuela he was still able to draw 40,000 people with his name alone.

Bruno Sammartino was never viewed on a historic level in the sports world like a Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali. Wrestling was certainly different back then but Bruno wasn't where those guys were. He was a wrestling icon, not a pop culture icon. And of course he was primarily known in the Northeast. I'm not saying he was completely unknown elsewhere because wrestling fans certainly knew him throughout the US but he wasn't as big of a global superstar as John Cena was. Outside of Japan, Venezuela, Australia, and Canada I can't find any other countries he wrestled in. You can blame that on the time period all you want but then don't turn around and say "Cena isn't bigger then the WWE" because that is also directly correlated to the time period. And while Bruno was a big name outside of the Northeast he wasn't the biggest star. If he went to Minnesota, Verne Gagne would still be the man over him. If he went to Missouri, Harley Race would still be the man over him. Same thing with Dusty in Florida, Fritz Von Erich in Texas, etc. That's how it was in the regional era. When Cena was at his peak popularity he was the top guy no matter where he went.

Both Bruno and Cena are/were huge stars yet Cena is better then Bruno in virtually every aspect of pro wrestling. If you put Cena in the 60s and 70s WWWF he could adapt to the time and thrive as the top guy in the company. If you put Bruno in today's era he fails to make it as a perennial main event guy.

 

[#tamale]

If we are going to argue about drawing power, it’s a wash. Bruno was bigger than the promotion but the promotion was territorial. Cena is not bigger than the promotion but he is the face of a global franchise. They are the biggest draws but in different eras. Let’s focus on the match: A sixty minute Iron Man Match. Who can pick up the most victories in one hour? Who has the advantages?

Strength: Even
Athleticism: Cena
Conditioning: Bruno

Bruno is more accustomed to wrestling these types of long matches, but Cena is not far behind. He just hasn’t had as many as Bruno. Still no clear advantage for either wrestler.

Bruno has a great array of submissions which he can use on Cena, but there is one problem. Cena doesn’t tap out. Cena has tapped out three times in his career and to only two men. Benoit and Angle; and this was in Cena’s early years (2002 and 2004). Since becoming the face of the company, Cena has not tapped out. Cena’s strength will be able to break any submission Bruno puts him in. As far as I know, Bruno has never tapped out and can also power out of the STF.

So this comes down to pinfalls. The question here is; can Bruno use a finisher powerful enough to keep Cena down for the three count? Cena has kicked out of the strongest finishers of the biggest names in professional wrestling. Bruno does not have that in his arsenal. Cena does. The Attitude Adjustment.

This will be a physical battle going 0-0 into the final minutes. Bruno can’t get Cena to tap out and Cena can’t get Bruno to tap or hit the Attitude Adjustment until the final minute where Cena goes Superman and after breaking out of the backbreaker rack or bear hug hits the Attitude Adjustment to put Bruno away.

I vote Cena because Cena has a strong enough finisher to put Bruno away and Bruno doesn’t.

 

[X]

I'm going with Cena on this one as well. Sammartino, legend, all of that groovy jazz, but boring as fuck. He had some great matches and feuds and drew great money but I'm pretty sure Cena has drawn just as large crowds for some of these recent Wrestlemanias, if not larger. I was just never a Sammartino fan, I can appreciate some of his stuff, but compared to his peers (say a guy like Billy Robinson) he wasn't very impressive technically. I can see Cena finding a way to win an Iron Man match with the legend in this fantasy (and I hope Mortal Kombat-esque) realm in which the WZ Tourny takes place.

 

[The Brain]

Cena has worked Iron man matches, and Bruno regularly worked 60 minute draws.

I think you just gave good reason to vote for Cena right here. If Bruno regularly wrestled 60 minute draws why should I expect him to be able get more falls than Cena in this 60 minute match? So many times he couldn't get one fall in 60 minutes.

Bruno also has the strength advantage. He was toted as the strongest wrestler in world, body slammed the 600 pound Haystacks Calhoun, and even wrestled an orangutan.

Cena lifted Big Show and Edge at the same time.

I don't think anyone has questioned his merit to win big matches; because he does. But so did Bruno. The biggest difference is that Cena as done the job to allot of lower end talent. Bruno only lost to big time stars like Lou Thesz and Billy Graham. Cena lost not only to big time stars like Rock and Punk, but to grunts like Tensai and Wade Barrett.

I wonder how many more guys Bruno would have lost to if he was on television every week and ppv every month.

LOL no. 100% subjective statement and a toss up for either man. Bruno was widely known as one of the best wrestlers the industry has ever seen. Even while Hogan was at his peak Bruno's work was still being praised. To suggest Cena was better even by a slight margin is asinine.

To suggest Cena was better even by a slight margin is asinine? How can you say that? You need to step out of your time machine and stop acting like older is automatically better. You've been doing it the entire tournament. Have you voted for a younger guy yet?

I haven't seen many Bruno matches but I remember reading articles that criticized his ring work. He wasn't a master technician. He was a power wrestler like Hogan and Cena. The wrestling magazines said the real wrestlers were guys like Dory Funk Jr. and Lou Thesz. Basically the same criticisms that Hogan and Cena have received.

Being charismatic and working promos like they do now wasn't as important back then. Where as Bruno still worked 60 minutes technical draws all the time. WWE doesn't do that now.

Glad you brought this up again. 60 minute draws all the time. Not 60 minute wins.

Bruno never changed. The fans never grew tired of him. He was a champion for 11 years with just two reigns, and was the biggest star in the world.

I bet Cena had more exposure on television and different arenas throughout the world during his first couple years as a main event wrestler than Bruno had in his 11 years as champ. If Bruno competed in this era of fickle fans and us internet critics people would be calling him stale after a year.

He's admired by fans that not only know what the WWE is, but also watch the product. Walk down the street and ask random people from different age groups who John Cena is. Most probably aren't going to know. When that happens ask them what the WWE is. Most will probably say "I know what it is but I don't watch it."

Point is that 40 years ago non wrestling fans knew who Bruno was even if they didn't know what the WWWF was. "Oh he's that one wrestler guy."

I think you're making this up. What do you base this on? How do you know random non wrestling fans knew who Bruno Sammartino was 40 years ago? And while you're at it please tell me what television shows he appeared on. I'm not saying you're wrong on that but I don't know of any. You said he did television shows back in the day. Please list them.

 

[Awesome_Miz]

OK, not only are you not taking into account that Cena is fighting people that rarely wrestle matches of those length (Michaels did however wrestle the Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania 12), not only are you taking into account that neither of those guys are Bruno, possess his endurance or were as big as him at the time but the fact is, Cena is LOSING to lesser opponents than Bruno in those matches.

And you've just proven yourself wrong in that statement alone. Also, one fall not multiple falls.

If anything, you've proven my point even more.

Nope. You've proven yourself wrong as I said and you stated yourself.

OK, let's address the slightly less cretinous stuff.

Let's shall.

Cena looked as if he was "five minutes in" because Cena currently had the offence in the match. Such rules could easily be applied to Bruno.

You clearly missed the point of my post. Cena "looked as if he was five minutes". Meaning he was fresh as a rose, fresh as new car, fresh as a.... oh you get it. With that said, that whole deal means Cena can easily go up against a man who wrestled regularly a 60 minute match and came to a draw most time, which Cena didn't in the match you used. Which I may add that is different than Bruno's usual 60 minute matches.

It doesn't matter whether it's one fall or multiple. Actually, it does, because Cena got pinned 5 times in an hour by Randy Orton, so if anything, he's at an even greater disadvantage.

It does matter if a match ends in a one fall or multiple cause there is a difference in both those type of matches. In a one fall match, you just need to hit a one hit wonder to win wether it be in a 5 minute match or an hour long match. While in an iron man match you can get a pinfall on your opponent, but at the same time your opponent can pin you back 100 times. Now, you bring up the fact Orton beat Cena 5 times, but you fail to bring up the fact that Cena beat Orton 6 times to win an IRON MAN MATCH. Get my point now?

How does that explain that Cena needs time getting up?

Ask WWE that cause they put a rest time on a NO-DQ 60 Minute Iron Man Match. Get it?

Please step away from the thread. You're alienating Cena supporters at the moment, and I want this to be a fairer match without you sabotaging your teams chances.

I think not cause this is too fun.

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

And you've just proven yourself wrong in that statement alone. Also, one fall not multiple falls.

I would ask you to expand, but your thought process is horrific, so please don't.

Who cares if it's one fall or multiple? The fact remains that Cena is 1-2 in long matches whereas Bruno fought in those matches all of the time as champion. Guess who walked out with the belt in the end?

Nope. You've proven yourself wrong as I said and you stated yourself.

You've proven yourself to be a complete cretin. I'm just reinforcing that.

You clearly missed the point of my post. Cena "looked as if he was five minutes". Meaning he was fresh as a rose, fresh as new car, fresh as a.... oh you get it. With that said, that whole deal means Cena can easily go up against a man who wrestled regularly a 60 minute match and came to a draw most time, which Cena didn't in the match you used. Which I may add that is different than Bruno's usual 60 minute matches.

So you're saying Cena's ONE victory out of THREE long matches is enough for him to beat Bruno's many victories in long matches?

Also, you're completely missing the point.

It does matter if a match ends in a one fall or multiple cause there is a difference in both those type of matches. In a one fall match, you just need to hit a one hit wonder to win wether it be in a 5 minute match or an hour long match. While in an iron man match you can get a pinfall on your opponent, but at the same time your opponent can pin you back 100 times. Now, you bring up the fact Orton beat Cena 5 times, but you fail to bring up the fact that Cena beat Orton 6 times to win an IRON MAN MATCH. Get my point now?

WOW, Cena beat Randy Orton by the skin of his teeth in a match that should have gone to sudden death! That means he'll beat Bruno, aka a much, much bigger star than Orton now!

By the way, Bruno never got pinned in those 60 minute matches, while Cena did so twice in less than 60 minutes against 2007 HBK and 2011 Punk, aka guys lesser than Bruno. That seems to suggest that even at his peak, Cena is going to get pinned before the 60 minute mark.

Ask WWE that cause they put a rest time on a NO-DQ 60 Minute Iron Man Match. Get it?

So you can't explain it.

I think not cause this is too fun.

Why do you take pride in being the forum idiot?