There Are No Monsters Under Your Bed, But They Are Walking Amongst Us

[#hamler]

Osama bin Ladan has been captured. May 1, 2011, thousands of Americans and other countries celebrated at the sight of the news that Osama bin Laden was killed during a shoot out in Pakistan earlier that evening. Osama bin Ladan was known to most as the matermind of the September 11th, terrorist attacks which shook this country's foundation.

Little Jimmy asks "Who is that man?" Mommy explains and tells him he's a mean, bad man that hurt a lot of nice people. Little Jimmy asks his mother "why was he so mean? I'm not scared because Daddy will protect us." What do you do here? How do you explain to eight year old Jimmy that the world is not as safe as it is under his blanket?

It's not just bin Laden and other terrorist who so happen to be half way across the world. Rapist, Murderers and thieves roam the country in the smallest of towns. Evil is all around us. How exactly do you tell Little Jimmy that while there are no monsters under your bed or in your closet, there are real ones walking amongst us?

Do you sugarcoat it? Do you give it to them straight forward? Do you just let them grow and figure things out on their own? Is there even a need to inform them? How do you inform your adolescent children that there is evil in the world?

So... discuss.

 

[Lucid]

You tell them. You educate them. You give them credit for recognizing right from wrong.
Kids know more about evil in the schoolyard than anyone. The world is no different.
You teach them to protect themselves and empower themselves and you let the chips fall and hope.
Fear is a healthy thing to have, but it must be tempered with discipline, restraint and love.
Or so I have been taught by those who came before me.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Osama bin Ladan has been captured. May 1, 2011, thousands of Americans and other countries celebrated at the sight of the news that Osama bin Laden was killed during a shoot out in Pakistan earlier that evening. Osama bin Ladan was known to most as the matermind of the September 11th, terrorist attacks which shook this country's foundation.

I agree. To an extent.

Little Jimmy asks "Who is that man?" Mommy explains and tells him he's a mean, bad man that hurt a lot of nice people. Little Jimmy asks his mother "why was he so mean? I'm not scared because Daddy will protect us." What do you do here? How do you explain to eight year old Jimmy that the world is not as safe as it is under his blanket?

You can't. No one can. Little Jimmy has to learn by himself. That's not to say mommy should leave him alone, but mommy shouldn't feed him lies either.

It's not just bin Laden and other terrorist who so happen to be half way across the world. Rapist, Murderers and thieves roam the country in the smallest of towns. Evil is all around us. How exactly do you tell Little Jimmy that while there are no monsters under your bed or in your closet, there are real ones walking amongst us?

Once again, he has to make that judgement call by himself. No one can teach us how we view the world. That's something you do yourself. As an 8 year old, all Little Jimmy needs to know is the world isn't like what he sees in the cartoons and there are no John Cenas in the real world.

Do you sugarcoat it? Do you give it to them straight forward? Do you just let them grow and figure things out on their own? Is there even a need to inform them? How do you inform your adolescent children that there is evil in the world?

Option C. Let them figure it out, but at the same time, at an age when they're beginning to understand this stuff you simply give him a dull truth. Not the sharp truth, not sugar coated, but a dull truth. "Bin Laden killed a lot of people Jimmy. Its just how the world is. You'll understand when you're older."


So... discuss.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mac Attack]

Hamler this thread makes me sad.

The truth of the matter is you have to be straight forward. You have to say that the world can be a very dark place and you have to say that evil and monsters do exist in the world. It truly would be a tough conversation however it is a conversation that needs to be done sooner then younger. The truth is there are people in the world who want to harm you and the truth is daddy can easily get a bullet straight through him. The sonner you learn of evil you become more likely to be good.

 

[Xemmy]

This is a tough one. I'm not sure how you explain it to them to be honest. I don't think you can without confusing children. I was never really told. I just learned it as a truth as I became a teenager. I think Lucid has it right. The best thing you can do is educate your kids about right and wrong for a start.

The problem today is that too many people try to shelter children. You hear it all the time from politicians. "Save the Children!" "Protect the Children!"
I'm not saying these are bad things, but they've become an obsession in our country to the point that some people don't let their children understand that there's evil in the world until they're in their mid-teens. Bullies on the playground would be the only evil they know- IF they know that. Not every kid is bullied, and often you've got kids home schooled. Those kids are the ones that will learn about evil the HARD way.

All in All, you've got to educate your children as much as you can. Let them explore too. The kid's a lot better off having a smooth transition instead having a sudden traumatic realization.

 

[The Crazman]

You can't. You can try and prepare your children for the bad parts of the world, you can explain about evil and suffering. They can go to church, or synagogue, or mosque, and they can be taught about what is right and wrong and they'll know that some people do do wrong. They can go to school and be given rules. But until they experience the truly horrible things that people do to each other they'll never really understand. The best you can do is be there for them when they do experience these things the first time to explain to them the best you can that these things happen, and sometimes its unavoidable. But also show them that its not all bad. Show them that there are good things in life as well. Because their faith in humanity may be rocked, mine isn't too great, but they need to see that humanity has its great points too.

 

[LigerBomb]

As the parent you strive to instill the concepts of freedom of choice, a respect for resulting consequence and remove the spectre of outlandish fear(s) even in the face of very real "evil".

Likewise as the parent you have got to understand the realities of the world and not let them govern your parenting to such a ridiculous extent.

Not too long ago there was a topic about so-called helicopter parenting that I think is somewhat fitting. In that thread I posted the following (with the bolded portion of particular relevance to this topic):

Spoiler

Quite the timely topic we have here what with Amy Chua's Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother receiving heavy media buzz. Anyway, I'll assume the OP is, at least in part, referencing Lenore Skenazy's Free-Range Kids "movement" with his subject title, though I think Helicopter Parenting would've been more apropos.

To put it mildly, the art that is the dynamic human interaction known simply as "parenting" is complex. And just like any other skill—say for example, mastering a musical instrument—there is a learning curve that is heavily reliant on evolved, meaningful, practice. That is to say, unless one has gone out of their way to develop the necessary skills and experience pre-first born child, there will definitely be a large amount of trial and error, hands-on, "in the trenches", style mistakes being made.

Even then, no one, no matter the experience, training, repetition and luck will hit a home run every time. In fact, following with the baseball metaphor, chances are you'll swing and miss more often than not. And actually, that's probably fine. Why? Because children are much more resilient that we currently are lead to believe.

Rather than the overly sensationalized mess about calling her kids "garbage", and the like, the big take away of Chua's tome should have been to parent with the assumption that children are inherently strong and adaptable rather than frail, weak little things that need to be spoon fed life experiences throughout adolescence. With said premise as a corner stone, you'll feel more confident when you inevitably break a few eggs on the way to making that self-sufficient, stable 21 year-old omelet.

Ironically, this position of strength, resiliency and aptitude is also the central premise of the Free-Range Kids model. The only difference is the direct proximity of parental involvement, controlled environment, and overall stylistic execution.

Whereas Chua would prefer the growth inducing stress to be an internal and purposefully controlled part of an overall plan, to be tested in specialized and specifically measurable ways—grades, awards, distinctions of merit and achievement, etc.—Skenazy's makeshift testing ground is the the external stresses of the "real world". Both however, prepare their children vigorously; they instilling a quiet confidence and self-soothing ability, a kind of emotional auto-regulation, that many of their children's contemporaries—and maybe even some of their respective parents—flat out lack.

Point being, as with most ideological stand-offs it's critical to look for the systemic similarities of both models rather than obsess over the trivializations and personal preferences that naturally occur with differences of perspective. Success leaves clues.

Returning to the OP and his mentioning of leashing a child, Mozzarella was right on the money to question whether it was fear or rather extreme laziness to blame. Be you a Tiger Mom (or Dad) or proud parent of a Free-Range Kid there is certainly a high level of effort taken to raise your child. Both systems refute outright the level of complacence and/or fear that is required to lead children to inevitably being treated like barely domesticated animals rather than civilized human beings.

And speaking of fear, let me end with this bit by Gever Tully (I highly recommend his TED talks btw):

Dangerism – Belief systems or ideologies in which some activities are considered dangerous based on cultural histories, taboos and traditions rather than science, statistics or concrete evidence.

You see, people tend to worry more about things that will probably never happen to them.

For example, when it comes to their children, the top five things that parents worry about are

1. Kidnapping
2. School Shootings
3. Terrorists
4. Dangerous Strangers
5. Drugs

These are definitely things that we would never want to affect our kids, but in reality, they are things that are not very likely to cause any problems. Here are the top five things that are actuallycausing harm to children.

1. Cars
2. Homicide (almost two-thirds of the time by a parent)
3. Abuse (almost two-thirds of the time by a family member)
4. Suicide
5. Drowning

As Tulley puts it, "The trouble is that for a range of psychological reasons, we tend to worry about the wrong things. It's making us unnecessarily fearful far too much of the time, and it's risking the possibility that we raise the next generation of kids unequipped to deal with the real world."

Anyway, to summarize for those not wanting to read all that mess:

1. Be highly active in and aware of your child's life. i.e. Don't be lazy.
2. Neither parent(s) nor child should be afraid to fail.
3. Following the message of point number two (2) Children are tougher than we give them credit for and need to be tested and held to a higher standard.
4. Don't fall victim to media scare tactics; learn about, and prepare for, the real world and it's real problems.

People do evil things and bad things happen to good people (many times without reason, understanding or sound logic). These truths cannot be refuted. However our idea of "common sense" in preparing and dealing with such realities is becoming less and less common and making less and less sense. The point of all this then is to not make the fear worse or create a culture where fear dominates reason and trumps positive action. Live life fearless and to the best of your abilities. Prepare for what you can, accept what you can't.

 

[Arkham Noir]

Going by experience, the best thing to do is make them aware in a straight-forward manner. You don't have to say "Jimmy, the world is shit and there are very bad people within it" or anything like that, but don't delude them in to thinking that the world is a kind place. When I was young, my parents were very, VERY protective of me. I was too sheltered and given a false idea of how the world worked and what people were like. As a result, when it came time to actually go out into the world , well, needless to say I was unprepared.

Make them aware that there are bad people out there and the way the world is. To give them a false image is a disservice to them, not an act of kindness.

 

[LSN80]

You can't. No one can. Little Jimmy has to learn by himself. That's not to say mommy should leave him alone, but mommy shouldn't feed him lies either.

Wait, hold on here for a minute? Think about it as if you were a parent for a minute. How would you want your child to be "educated" about the evil in the world? For him to just "experience life" and one day, he'll see something graphic, or God forbid, experience that evil himself? No, you educate your children the best you can. You teach them the difference between good and evil. Hell, you tell your child not to take the candy from the stranger. Im not calling you out here, per se, but in your scenario, your child finds out for himself when he takes the candy from a stranger and he turns out to be a pedophile. I know im being extreme here, but it happens. Parents fail to educate their kids about right and wrong, good and evil, and some often experience that evil themselves, or they become evil. I know I darn sure want my son or daughter to know as much as he can based upon the socially appropriateness of his age, his ability to process the information. Not for him just to find out on his own.

Once again, he has to make that judgement call by himself. No one can teach us how we view the world. That's something you do yourself. As an 8 year old, all Little Jimmy needs to know is the world isn't like what he sees in the cartoons and there are no John Cenas in the real world.

Here's the problem I have with this: Eight year old children are incapable of making judgment calls. Their brain has not developed to the point where they think through their options carefully, and go upon "good judgment." They base their decisions on what they've been told, what they see others do, and what their emotions tell them to do. Eight year old Jimmy needs to know alot more then generlizations about the world. He needs to know who can be trusted, and who cannot. What types of people to avoid. Without being taught that, there's no "judgment" that comes into play. Emotions rule the day. I know I dont want that for my son or daughter.

Option C. Let them figure it out, but at the same time, at an age when they're beginning to understand this stuff you simply give him a dull truth. Not the sharp truth, not sugar coated, but a dull truth. "Bin Laden killed a lot of people Jimmy. Its just how the world is. You'll understand when you're older."

Again, it's a process. Im not saying you sit down with your child and explain every current event to him/her. I am saying is that your child needs to be able to understand the gravity of situations from a young age. There's a proverb that says, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he won't depart from it." This is the approach I plan on taking when it comes to my children. Again, I don't want them to find out about things on their own the hard way, I want them to know, so they're prepared to respond. Again, this is based upon age appropriateness, and more freedom to "figure it out" is given over time, but only after they've been taught appropriately. God forbid we live in a world where everyone just "figures it out" as they go along, especially a young child.

 

[LFC till i die]

I dont think you should tell a child something like this at a young age because it may scare them so i would tell then when they at an age where they would understand and realise what Im saying. I wouldnt want them to find things out i would prefer telling them.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Wait, hold on here for a minute? Think about it as if you were a parent for a minute. How would you want your child to be "educated" about the evil in the world?

Well, I wasn't referring to evil as much as answering how to explain who bin laden is to a kid.

For him to just "experience life" and one day, he'll see something graphic, or God forbid, experience that evil himself? No, you educate your children the best you can.

Right. By giving them the dull truth. And by experience I don't mean to not tell them anything but simply give them a general idea. The opinion must stem from within if you know what I mean?

You teach them the difference between good and evil. Hell, you tell your child not to take the candy from the stranger. Im not calling you out here, per se, but in your scenario, your child finds out for himself when he takes the candy from a stranger and he turns out to be a pedophile.

I get your point, teaching kids morals is something one must do but explaining evil is a whole different ball game. As an 8 year old one only understands morals through consequences. That's to say, if he takes a candy from a stranger he'll be grounded. If he makes his bed he'll be rewarded. Skinner came up with that I think.

But explaining evil is a whole another idea. I used to know couple people in my highschool and they're socialized to the point that they're brain washed into thinking drugs, alcohol, sex, and any sort of liberalism with tradition is forbidden. Now that's not to say its bad. But they also show signs of a person craving those things. Making out in public, wearing a bit revealing hijabis, rationalizing bending some rules. Things MORE dangerous than the things they learnt to ignore. The point I'm making with this is that socialization is a powerful, powerful thing.

That said, I don't have a problem with teaching them morals. I have a problem with telling them what evil is. As an 8 year old they don't understand the difference. Once they grow they will and when they do, they must make up their own opinions about evil.

I know im being extreme here, but it happens.

Its called being a parent man

Parents fail to educate their kids about right and wrong, good and evil, and some often experience that evil themselves,

Well, if you're 8 years of age and they don't tell you that you shouldn't be doing things then you're an idiot of a parent. As far as good and evil, that's something they must learn. As an 8 year old they think superman(good) is synonymous with right and Lex Luthor (evil) is the same as wrong. But that's not the case. Good and Evil differs with right and wrong. You teach kids right and wrong but not good and evil. Because as kids you already taught them good and evil through right and wrong. They'll learn the advanced version of ethics later when they give a shit.

or they become evil. I know I darn sure want my son or daughter to know as much as he can based upon the socially appropriateness of his age, his ability to process the information. Not for him just to find out on his own.

I understand that and I agree. But your child must figure out what is good and what is evil later on in his life. That's not to say you shouldn't teach them a template of that but that's all you should teach them. A template. Not a clearly drawn out picture. Something they can apply everywhere. Example:

Candy from a stranger=Wrong
Saying thank you after someone give you a present: Right

Here's the problem I have with this: Eight year old children are incapable of making judgment calls.

Oh I know, I was referring to judgement calls when they're older. As I said, inform them of the dull truth so to protect them from the evils of the world but let them make their own mids about good and bad when they're older. If you force in a clear cut line between good and bad when they're older they begin to rationalize and bend those lines and do things worse then the things they wanted to avoid.

T

heir brain has not developed to the point where they think through their options carefully, and go upon "good judgment." They base their decisions on what they've been told, what they see others do, and what their emotions tell them to do. Eight year old Jimmy needs to know alot more then generlizations about the world.

8 year old Jimmy needs to know what is right and wrong. And since he's 8 he'll link that to good and bad. Once he's a 13 year old Jimmy he'll slowly rip apart the notion of good and bad with right and wrong and begin to make judgement calls.

He needs to know who can be trusted, and who cannot. What types of people to avoid. Without being taught that, there's no "judgment" that comes into play. Emotions rule the day. I know I dont want that for my son or daughter.

Oh I know, I agree that basic moral rules must be taught to children. But simply basic. Not a specific and complex moral dilemma such as evil. Kids don't need to learn that yet. Kids care about getting treat once they make their bed and watching Raw


Again, it's a process. Im not saying you sit down with your child and explain every current event to him/her. I am saying is that your child needs to be able to understand the gravity of situations from a young age. There's a proverb that says, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he won't depart from it." This is the approach I plan on taking when it comes to my children. Again, I don't want them to find out about things on their own the hard way, I want them to know, so they're prepared to respond. Again, this is based upon age appropriateness, and more freedom to "figure it out" is given over time, but only after they've been taught appropriately. God forbid we live in a world where everyone just "figures it out" as they go along, especially a young child.[/QUOTE]

 

[Loveless]

Little Jimmy asks "Who is that man?" Mommy explains and tells him he's a mean, bad man that hurt a lot of nice people. Little Jimmy asks his mother "why was he so mean? I'm not scared because Daddy will protect us." What do you do here? How do you explain to eight year old Jimmy that the world is not as safe as it is under his blanket?

Do you sugarcoat it? Do you give it to them straight forward? Do you just let them grow and figure things out on their own? Is there even a need to inform them? How do you inform your adolescent children that there is evil in the world?
So... discuss.

Basically? You don't. Children should be protected from this stuff for as long as you can or until they're old enough to understand the reality for themselves, because where is the benefit in telling them? It's not like they can defend themselves against the world anyway, that's your job as a parent. In my view, children need to have faith in their parents and they need to feel secure. I see absolutely no good reason to undermine that if you as a parent are actually doing your job properly.

 

[Terminal Sledgehammer]

I feel I have lived this thread. I was Little Jimmy back on 9/11, I was in 2nd grade. I had no idea what was going on. When I got home from school I asked many questions about what happened and didn't get answers until a few days later. Osama was described as a terrible person that no one should ever be like. I was also told that we had much stronger and braver men who would protect me and the rest of world. As a kid that was all I needed to hear.

As for finding out that their is evil in the world, as a kid you learn the imediate threats such as strangers and older kids. The bigger things like terrorism are things that you have to figure out by yourself.

 

[Dagger Dias]

There is no real answer to this question. You can't lie to them and pretend the world is safe. However, you also cannot scare them with too many details. That leads to them growing up to be afraid of their own shadow. It is better to start off at first explaining it simply that there are good people and there are bad people, you cannot always trust others. Then when they get older you can begin telling in more detail about the "bad" people, that way they know you can't trust everyone but also not everyone is a monster. That's my two cents but there really is no true answer here because kids have to learn about dangerous people sooner or later but you don't want to scare them by telling them too soon either. It is the parents' responsibility to tell them eventually though, they deserve to not have to learn the hard way.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

It's life man, you have to let them know. Or you have to let them find out on their own. My mother was allways very point on in telling me things that I wanted to know. One thing I can remember is her answering my questions on Lesibans when I was younger. I asked her what they were because I had overherd a few members of my class room talking about them.

You can't shelter your childern, you might think you are being a good parent in the long run. But they will eventually learn it outside of your 4 walls. It's best to deal with the issue when it comes up.

Alot of kids learn about this in school, if they come home with questions you should do your best to answer them. If you talk to your kids about shit like this they will be more likely to come to you at a later age and tell you and ask more important questions on life.

Evil is a very real thing in the world. It's not just mass murders and drug dealers. Alot of things can be misconstrued as evil in young uninformed eyes. So you need to do your best to inform your child when they ask you.