The WrestleZone Tournament Has Begun

[Big Nick Dudley]

What I'm saying is he was bad at being a heel as evidenced by the fact he was getting cheers.

So Steve Austin was bad at being a heel too?

Yeah, ignore the massive amount of heat Orton got before the fans started to cheer. He was drawing as much, or more heat than any other wrestler on the roster. They started cheering because the majority of them thought he was a great wrestler, and obviously still do.

Getting a face reaction as a heel is surely an undesirable outcome.

Really? I think it's the opposite. For almost a year now, he's been the second biggest babyface on Raw. Austin became the biggest star of the 90's.

Oh, you were just pointing out that I don't like Orton? And here I thought you were calling me rude, aggressive, and hateful. I don't think you pointed out anything most people didn't already know, but thanks anyway.

Maybe they weren't paying attention. I pulled a JGlass and made it as clear as can be

 

[JGlass]

So when it happened to Austin it was because he was that good but when it happens to Orton it's because he sucks? Orton was a top heel just a few years ago and didn't really change anything about the way he acted. He didn't forget how to be a heel, the crowd just decided they liked him.

I could be crazy, but I just don't see what made it happen. Generally I think there has to be a catalyst for these things. There was a catalyst for Steve Austin, there was no catalyst for Orton. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I could be crazy, but I just don't see what made it happen. Generally I think there has to be a catalyst for these things. There was a catalyst for Steve Austin, there was no catalyst for Orton. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

The catalyst was Orton being really good at what he does. I know it must hurt like hell, but it's true.

 

[Big Sexy]

I could be crazy, but I just don't see what made it happen. Generally I think there has to be a catalyst for these things. There was a catalyst for Steve Austin, there was no catalyst for Orton. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

The catalyst was when he started roughing up his stablemates in Rhodes and Dibiase. I'm guessing that was supposed to turn Rhodes and Dibiase face but instead the opposite happened because the crowd made their voices heard.

 

[JGlass]

So Steve Austin was bad at being a heel too? Yeah, ignore the massive amount of heat Orton got before the fans started to cheer. He was drawing as much, or more heat than any other wrestler on the roster. They started cheering because the majority of them thought he was a great wrestler, and obviously still do.

Just discussed this with Big Sexy. Refer to that post.

Really? I think it's the opposite. For almost a year now, he's been the second biggest babyface on Raw. Austin became the biggest star of the 90's.

So things would be better if all the heels were cheered for? I'm not buying it. Yes, it has birthed some huge stars, but the baddies need to be hated.

Maybe they weren't paying attention. I pulled a JGlass and made it as clear as can be

And in order to make that point you had to made it personal. Classy, thanks for that.

 

[DirtyJosé]

All I can do is laugh at this. Really.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

So things would be better if all the heels were cheered for? I'm not buying it. Yes, it has birthed some huge stars, but the baddies need to be hated.

That's the point. It doesn't happen to just anyone, it happens to the best of the best.

And in order to make that point you had to made it personal. Classy, thanks for that.

Oh relax, it was a joke. I even threw out a wink, just for you...here's another

 

[JGlass]

The catalyst was when he started roughing up his stablemates in Rhodes and Dibiase. I'm guessing that was supposed to turn Rhodes and Dibiase face but instead the opposite happened because the crowd made their voices heard.

I can buy this.

 

[DirtyJosé]

It happens when you put two lesser heels against one uber-heel and expect the crowd to sympathize with the nooblets. That's not me taking a side, but best of the best? Orton? That's quite a stretch.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

All I can do is laugh at this. Really.

Unfortunately, I agree. I was just trying to point out something I've noticed. Maybe I'm alone in seeing it, or maybe I'm the only one who is paying attention. Who knows. Either way, this has gotten pretty stupid, and turned into something I didn't want it to.

That's not me taking a side, but best of the best? Orton? That's quite a stretch.

Outside of the IWC, I would say a solid 99% of fans would disagree. And they're not all stupid.

 

[JGlass]

Whaaaaaatever. I suppose we could argue over your attentions all night, it's probably best if we just leave it be. We've totally derailed this thread anyway.

I'm still picking Punk over Orton.

 

[Big Sexy]

It happens when you put two lesser heels against one uber-heel and expect the crowd to sympathize with the nooblets. That's not me taking a side, but best of the best? Orton? That's quite a stretch.

They tried to do with Dibiase and Rhodes what they did with Orton and Batista who became faces after breaking away from Triple H and Evolution. It just so happens that Dibiase sucks and Rhodes makes a much better heel then face. The fans obviously wanted Orton as a face after his Legacy run. If they didn't then he wouldn't currently be the second most over guy on the roster. And this is coming from someone who doesn't really like Orton.

 

[JGlass]

I forget that Rhodes started out as a face when he teamed with Bob Holly. He was very bland to say the least.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

After all of this shit, I'm still kind of split on Punk and Orton. Leaning toward Orton, only because I have a feeling 95% of WZ posters will side with Punk.

 

[DirtyJosé]

YAY, back on track!

I don't know where I lie on that one myself. I think both are great in the right spots, and together is probably the best spot I've seen either in a long time.

 

[Nate DaMac]

YAY, back on track!

I don't know where I lie on that one myself. I think both are great in the right spots, and together is probably the best spot I've seen either in a long time.

This. Hell, you could probably even argue that both of them are in their primes right now.

 

[JGlass]

I think they ARE both in their primes right now. Punk has never been more relevant or hated than right he is now, even when he was a World Champion. Orton has also never been as strong as he is now (thanks partially to the fact he played a heel that often relied on others for backup) and has DEFINITELY never gotten this type of reaction out of the fans before. Randy Orton holds the edge in kayfabe success, but that generally means fuck all to a large group of voters, but the same could be said about Punk and his superior mic skills. It's no doubt a tough choice, and I'm hoping to see a good close match here.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

When does the 2nd round matches start guys, licking my lips with anticipation here...

 

[Coco]

Punk over Orton. All day every day. And that includes WrestleMania 27.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'll probably stay away from Punk vs. Orton because I'm not too fond of either. I just look at both of them objectively and take away accolades and accomplishments.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'll probably vote for Orton so the round 3 match up of Austin vs Punk/Orton will be a little closer like 60-25 instead of 70-15.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'll probably stay away from Punk vs. Orton because I'm not too fond of either. I just look at both of them objectively and take away accolades and accomplishments.

In that case I don't see how Punk doesn't tower above Orton, like a tyrannosaurus rex over a midget.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I don't see how Punk towers above Orton.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I like Punk more, but being unbiased, I got to take Orton. As Big Sexy keeps saying though, it's irrelevant. Austin will destroy whoever gets to him.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Sting vs. Hansen will be the closest in terms of voting.

Ric Flair vs. Goldberg potentially in Round 3? Sign me up.