The Undertakers WM matches are all the same

[AngryCenaFan]

Theres a set formula to all his matches his latest against HHH is another example.

The match to me hilighted undertakers limitations half of the match was nothing but ground stuff , then as per an Undertaker match, finishers get kicked out of but in the end he always wins.

then he gets another few months off, gets to have another formulated match, followed by another few months off.

When John Cena does the same he gets ripped, but Undertaker is praised, why is that?

 

[roy]

Theres a set formula to all his matches his latest against HHH is another example.

The match to me hilighted undertakers limitations half of the match was nothing but ground stuff , then as per an Undertaker match, finishers get kicked out of but in the end he always wins.

then he gets another few months off, gets to have another formulated match, followed by another few months off.

When John Cena does the same he gets ripped, but Undertaker is praised, why is that?

taker is basically at the end of his rope career wise. he is banged up and has put in a lot of years. still at mania he went pretty balls out along with triple h.

cena is not injured. people want more from him and he doesn't show more. he kinda just does the same old same old. he did it at the elimination chamber and he did it at mania. a lot is expected if he is supposed to be the face of the company. for most he just doesn't live up to expectations.

 

[AmerikanWolves619]

John Cena has not been an innovator of wrestling. Undertaker has always set the bar higher than Cena ever could attain. 5 (actually 4) moves of Doom in the last 45 secs of his match as opposed to the Undertaker's mat-work, wrestling holds/moves, strength, strong character, high flying maneuvers, complex submission holds, and a "real strong finisher" in which all these elements are mix in throughout every match he's been in differently...yeah, there is a real the Undertaker garnishes HUGE respect. Don't get me wrong, not harping on the Work Horse of the WWE, but in that respect, there is no comparison.

 

[simmyszy]

To a certain extent, I agree, the impact & awesomeness of his WM25 match has meant the following two have been similar. I'm not talking about the moves & multiple finishes but the storytelling...

The stand out moment that elevated the WM25 match in a single moment was UT's face when Shawn kicked out. They tried to replicate this the following year with "stay down" and this year with HHH's bark "won't you just die!"

If HHH is to get a rematch, I think they will have a add a hardcore gimmick to give the match a new feel. Although it may seem like it, I'm not slating the UT's performance (cos he has been in the stand out matches in the last 3 WM's) but fear the impact of going 20-0 will be diluted if we see a similar in-ring story.

Therefore, I propose Hell in a Cell.

Both have been innovators of this match. Plus you could throw in Kane and have one hell of a match!

This is only if it does become Undertaker vs HHH and I appreciate this may not fit the PG era... but either does a chair shot to the skull...

 

[berlinbrawler]

There is a distinct difference to what Undertaker and Cena do. Yeah, sure, the whole thing with kicking out of many finishers and in the end the good guy wins has been done many times. :/ How often you can reinvent the wheel? It's pretty safe to assume that EVERYTHING has already been done in wrestling. Ok, not everything, but if you try to come up with something original, chances are it will turn out like this:


So I'll modify my previous statement by saying that EVERYTHING WORTH DOING has already been done. But I digress.
What the Undertaker does better than Cena is tell a story. There is a lot of psychology in a good match and sometimes doing nothing for a while has a bigger impact than going from spot to spot in rapid succession. If you think of a wrestling match as a western movie bar fight between two tough guys, whose matches would make better, more realistic movies? Cena who gets beat up all the time but then, one second, BAM, superman cleans house, or Taker who fights to his last breath and barely survives the ordeal?

 

[Jericaholics_anonymous7]

personally, i know everyone loves UT and watching him at mania... but... i cant STAND him... all his matches are the same as you have mentioned, some good back and forth, they'll have the upper hand... some very near pinfalls... then.... chokeslam, last ride, tombstone 1, 2, 3... this is the point where i celebrate the most cos its finally over... UT is boring and overated and his gimmick doesn't fit anything anymore.... let alone a wrestlemania main event?!?!?

 

[RicSpade]

Why does Undertaker get praised but Cena gets crapped on? I can't believe your serious, but ok lets look at a few key differences here. First off if you look at some of The things the Undertaker does or has done this would be point one the man goes through tables, dives over ropes and has a solid 25-60 minute WM match the last 3 years running.
On that same note Undertaker has adapted over the years, using the hells gate as a submission finisher but still using things like snake eyes, Tombstone, Last Ride, Chokeslam, Rope walk, over the rope dive is just an example of how to keep things fresh.
Finally Undertaker is a hell of a lot older than Cena is. Seriously think about this Undertaker who is 46 flies around to a point like he's still early 30's yeah his age may be finally showing but hell he is still rocking the house.

Cena is still new, and because the formula for Cena never really changes people get tired of it, it's kinda like Goldberg once he won the belt and still had the streak it was like then what because he was being exposed to how limited Goldberg really was, and once the streak died that was it for Goldberg he was just another wrestler. Cena can tell the Cenation he loves them a million times, and add moves like the flying leg drop, the twisting side slam or whatever he keeps adding, but honestly until Cena heel turns big and shows the fans what he can bring to the table on both ends (considering how his gimmick is now) he's not going to get any respect from a lot of people

 

[Mustang Sally]

Comparing Undertaker and Cena? That really is apples & oranges. There is almost no basis for comparison, so I won't even go there.

But there's no doubt that all of 'Taker's matches are the same. So are his interviews. There has never been a more one-dimensional character than Undertaker.

But, so what? It works, doesn't it? The man has gotten across all these years by taking the narrow limits of what he does ..........and doing it better than anyone else. He gives a maximum effort at WM (although one could argue that it's easier to give it everything you've got when it's practically the only match you have to work all year).

The only new thing 'Taker has come up with in the last few years is that Triangle Choke Hold (or whatever it's called). It was new, it was different.....and that's a good thing for a performer whose been doing the same damn thing since "The Gravest Challenge."

But it works.

Anyway, who ever thought he would outlast Edge?

 

[simmyszy]

As much as I agree with you, where would you put the cell? It is at the Sun Life Stadium, no roof, but the thing that covers the ring, there won't be enough room. But, I totally agree with you, one hell of a match.

Ok, good point. Well two of the other greatest matches at WM have been Bret vs Shawn and Bret vs SCSA. Do you think Taker and HHH could cope with this style/length of match of the Grandest Stage Of Them All? This would be hardcore wrestling of a different sort between the last two old schoolers left in the business...

(I'd still prefer Hell in a Call at WM!)

 

[berlinbrawler]

But there's no doubt that all of 'Taker's matches are the same. So are his interviews. There has never been a more one-dimensional character than Undertaker.

Yes and no. So yeah he has this gimmick and always talks about stealing his opponents souls and he has his series of moves he crams into every match.

And yet, the Undertaker managed to keep it fresh enough to make a 20+ year career of it.
He started as some sort of undead zombie who felt no pain and drew strength from an urn held by a creepy fat man. The matches from that time, by the way, are quite bad if one is honest. He overdid his slow motion walk and back then all of his matches really were the same.
But one of the big reasons for Undertaker's longevity is his ability to adapt and evolve. He dropped the urn thing, changed his outfit countless times, became more of an occult character holding dark masses, incorporated themes from his real life (motorcycles, rock music) into his character. At one point he even dropped the whole undead gravedigger thing completely and became a fulltime biker. It was around that time that his wrestling style changed as well. Still his old signature moves, but also new ones like the last ride, and more recently, that Hell's gate submission move. By then it was less slow motion or shots to the throat or kicks to the gut, but instead more of an Ultimate Fighting style stance with rapid punches, etc. Then, when it was time, he went back to his very beginnings - the old music, the fatman with the urn, etc. And now that he's getting old and nearing his end, he started using the "ain't no grave" theme song, which again distances him from this supernatural being and makes him appear more human and vulnerable, hence his breakdown after the match with Triple H. This was done so the fans are free to speculate if maybe he ran out of gas this close to immortality (i.e. 20-0).

At any rate, you can't please everyone and some people are bound to not like him, but personally speaking I must say he deservers every bit of the respect and adoration he receives.

 

[Mac Attack]

Some people have no clue about the past. Have you realized that the last three Manias Undertaker has worked injured and still performed the best out of all other matches. Go watch his first Wrestlemania against Snuka and tell me he hgas remained the same. hen go watch his Mania match with Flair and tell me he is the same. Undertaker if you want my honest opinion only statred the trend where he kicks out of finishers against Orton at Mania 21. Also throwing it out there Undertaker does not need to change up what he does if people still love it, granted there will always be the small handful (AngryCenaFan) who just are never happy.

 

[FiveTymeWCWChamp]

If you look at the "Greatest of all time" Shawn Michaels matches they are all the same too. Get beat down. Flying burrito which was stole from Tito Santana. Knip up. Flying elbow drop, stolen from Randy Savage. Then finish with sweet chin music. You can say that about all wrestlers...excuse me, entertainers. Same with Hogan, Flair, and Sting. Same with HHH, HBK, and Taker. Get over yourselves people. Its all about ring psychology which all of the old guys have. Enjoy while you can, because all of the greats are retiring and we will be stuck with a lot of jabronies that don't know how to actually wrestle. "The Last Outlaws" are leaving us and left behind are guys like Wade Barrett?

 

[Sleep Time]

#1 never compare The Undertaker to John Cena, I happen to be a fan of both but they are incomparable.
#2 they are not all the same, if you happen to be a fan of the WWE you wouldn't complain about this stuff, its different and entertaining, I don't understand how this thread even got posted, your not even a real fan. If you see it from a future perspective you see that they are the same, but if you watch it live, you wouldn't care how the match goes along, we want someone of our choice to win, and Undertaker does a bunch of cool high flying stuff people his size couldn't and thats a much different moveset then John Cena, get your facts straight.

 

[ffrikku]

Ok, couple things. If you look at ALL the Undertakers matches at Wrestlemania you really cant say they are all the same. If you want to talk about the last three Wrestlemanias the WWE has been pushing that the Undertakers streak is in danger and even hinting towards how much longer can he go on. The last three Wrestlemanias each match he comes closer and closer to losing which is what they want to go for and in pro wrestling typically you beat the person with your finisher. So, having the multiple kick outs and all that isnt being typical its showing the Undertaker is ready to let his streak "die" but you can see the progression of last few years that they are building up to Undertaker retirement match which I am sure will be at a wrestlemania.

 

[cm ben]

Lol, what a thread. I think the biggest difference between Cena's matches and Undertaker's WM matches are that Taker's matches happen ONCE A YEAR and are 30+ minutes long, whereas Cena churns out the same 6-minute matches on Raw week after week. It's like complaining that you have the same thing for Thanksgiving every year-- I mean come on, I have a turkey sandwich for lunch every day, what's the difference?

btw, big Cena fan here. I think the guy does his job great. I think this thread is inane, however

 

[CruelButFair]

Undertaker if you want my honest opinion only statred the trend where he kicks out of finishers against Orton at Mania 21.

That is not entirely true. He started it way back in Wrestlemania 8 when he sat up after 2 of Jake Roberts' DDTs. Also recall the same thing in Wrestlemania 12 against Diesel when he sat up after 2 Jackknife powerbombs (Yeah right, that one still urks me).

Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Undertaker, always have. But most of his wrestlemania matches have followed a pattern. Not all, but most. He makes a mockery of whatever the opponents finisher is basically everytime.

That being said, can't even believe Cena is being mentioned in the same catagory.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I do agree that John Cena does get a lot of unjustified hate. The truth of it is that John Cena does get shit on a lot for common happenings in wrestling that can be applied to virtually everyone else. For instance, we all know about Cena's "5 Moves of Doom" shit that a lot of fans like to toss around. The fact is that every wrestler has a certain handful of signature moves that they manage to work into every match they have. Flair did it, the Andersons all did it, Stone Cold did it, The Rock did it, Kurt Angle does it, Jericho does it and I can keep going on and on with it. The simple fact of the matter is that some people just plain out hate John Cena just for the sake of hating hating him. They don't like him being as big of a star as he is nor of having the spot that he's got.

As far as The Undertaker goes, I don't really care if his WM matches are all the same. Why? Most of them have been at least solid and a handful of them are downright classics. It's true that the Taker's last 3 Mania matches have followed a certain formula but, so what? The WWE has built up the importance of the streak over the course of the past 5 or 6 years generally to such a successful degree that it's become part of Taker's identity. The past 3 years especially, these matches have told a fantastic story as well as been extremely competitive. A big part of what's made the last 3 matches so great in the minds of most people is the fact that they've been emotionally invested in them, especially the last 2 matches.

While I do think that a lot of the hate Cena gets isn't justified, he just hasn't earned the near universal respect that Taker has over the course of more than 20 years. The Undertaker has adapted his character in order to stay relevant with the changing times. Taker is every bit as over and respected now as he's ever been, maybe even more so, and most wrestlers that've been in the game for as long as he has simply can't make that claim. The last few years, it's definitely true that injuries have taken their toll and have really started to catch up with him. He's well known for working extended periods while hurt, pushing back taking time off to heal up or to have needed surgery, and he's started to pay the price the last few years.

If Taker just winds up working a single match a year, his WM match, now until the end of his career, people are going to rave about it if he's able to deliver storytelling on a level as has been done the past 3 years and rightly so. The fact that he can potentially deliver more in one match than most others can in an entire year of matches combined just shows how good he is in my view.

 

[Jackal960]

I do agree that John Cena does get a lot of unjustified hate. The truth of it is that John Cena does get shit on a lot for common happenings in wrestling that can be applied to virtually everyone else. For instance, we all know about Cena's "5 Moves of Doom" shit that a lot of fans like to toss around. The fact is that every wrestler has a certain handful of signature moves that they manage to work into every match they have. Flair did it, the Andersons all did it, Stone Cold did it, The Rock did it, Kurt Angle does it, Jericho does it and I can keep going on and on with it. The simple fact of the matter is that some people just plain out hate John Cena just for the sake of hating hating him. They don't like him being as big of a star as he is nor of having the spot that he's got.

As far as The Undertaker goes, I don't really care if his WM matches are all the same. Why? Most of them have been at least solid and a handful of them are downright classics. It's true that the Taker's last 3 Mania matches have followed a certain formula but, so what? The WWE has built up the importance of the streak over the course of the past 5 or 6 years generally to such a successful degree that it's become part of Taker's identity. The past 3 years especially, these matches have told a fantastic story as well as been extremely competitive. A big part of what's made the last 3 matches so great in the minds of most people is the fact that they've been emotionally invested in them, especially the last 2 matches.

While I do think that a lot of the hate Cena gets isn't justified, he just hasn't earned the near universal respect that Taker has over the course of more than 20 years. The Undertaker has adapted his character in order to stay relevant with the changing times. Taker is every bit as over and respected now as he's ever been, maybe even more so, and most wrestlers that've been in the game for as long as he has simply can't make that claim. The last few years, it's definitely true that injuries have taken their toll and have really started to catch up with him. He's well known for working extended periods while hurt, pushing back taking time off to heal up or to have needed surgery, and he's started to pay the price the last few years.

If Taker just winds up working a single match a year, his WM match, now until the end of his career, people are going to rave about it if he's able to deliver storytelling on a level as has been done the past 3 years and rightly so. The fact that he can potentially deliver more in one match than most others can in an entire year of matches combined just shows how good he is in my view.

I totally agree. Yes, Cena might be getting heat more than any other wrestler for simply no reason, but it doesn't justify to try burning a legend like the Undertaker. When Cena was a teenager Taker already accomplished what most of the wrestlers will never have. And today he is still one of the biggest draws of WWE. Just think how long that is... And isn't that funny because after 20 years, his "carbon copy" matches still become the match of the year???

 

[TheKingHustla]

I think alot of people who compare cena and taker dont understand that taker has been doing this for 2 decades. He has done just about everything you can think of and has succeeded. it's like comparing bret farve to tony romo. yeah tony is a star, and the face of "america's team" but he doesn't bring home the gold (and i dont mean wwe titles because they mean close to nothing as far as accomplishments now because they give them to nearly anyone) where as bret has done everything and yeah, he might be the same ol bret every game, but his track record has allowed him to be.

it's the same with taker and cena. yeah, cena is the face of the wwe now, but he isn't bringing home the gold (how many match of the year's has he had or even came close to having?) and while taker is old and may throw predictable interceptions, he get's the job done and gets it done well. (he has been the MVP of mania the last 3 years straight)

and just like bret, taker might have some bad games, but his good ones are memorable, unlike john cena's.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

I don't get how any of you can rip Cena when he is the one always on the road, always at house shows, always doing public appearances, and yet doing the same routine most nights. While Undertaker takes months and months off at a time every year, no sells alot of his matches, then does the same formulated shit at every WM and major PPV really.

 

[roy]

I don't get how any of you can rip Cena when he is the one always on the road, always at house shows, always doing public appearances, and yet doing the same routine most nights. While Undertaker takes months and months off at a time every year, no sells alot of his matches, then does the same formulated shit at every WM and major PPV really.

i don't know about anyone else but i just want to see something different from cena.

like one night stand where cena turned right in the middle of the match,changed it up and got the attention of the hostile crowd. it wasn't the best thing of all time but he adapted. same with the tlc match with edge. but how many moments has cena had like that?

i want to see more from him. people want to see what cena is capable of,not see him do the same old thing. we already know what taker can do. he has gone as far as he can go. cena can do more. that is what is driving me nuts.

 

[ugotpwned999]

Yes. Undertakers WM matches are all the same. Thats not a bad thing though imo.Its what people come to expect of Taker each year. Jump over the top ropes, Kicking out of finishers etc... He's always been that way. Taker doesn't need to step out of his comfort zone because thats all the fans expect from him.

By the Way. The reason the Undertaker doesn't get ripped as much as cena is because Undertaker is a legend. Simple as that. Has Cena been around for 20 years? Dont think so. Has Cena given his body up as much as Taker? Nah ah. Taker has done so much more for the buisness than Cena could ever do.

 

[93178]

The big thing is the fact that Undertaker started his career in 1984, when John Cena was seven years old. John Cena started his career in 2001 after Undetaker had already been wrestling for 16 years and had already been in 7 Wrestlemaina matches.

Undertaker is at the very end of his wrestling career where Cena is at the prime of his. Taker needs to take months off after Mania because of all of the abuse he has put his body through and continues to post his body through for WWE.

If Cena is still wrestling like he is now in 18 years then ya you can compare how he wrestles to how Undertaker is now. But not when Cena is in his prime and Undertaker is near/at the end.

 

[Hitman-HBK United Inc.]

I'm so sick of hearing about how wrestlers do "all the same things"...I mean give me a break here, wrestlers stick to a certain schtick because it WORKS! I mean, it doesen't matter how many tweaks a wrestler gets from a charachter standpoint, they still stick with certain things. And the fact is, it's not about, "how many different moves" you can do, big deal! Sabu has more actual offensive manuvers than Steve Austin...but who had better matches...and who would the majority of wrestling fans rather watch?? It's about TELLING A STORY! Not how many moves you can do......

The fact is, 'Taker's matches are a primary selling point of 'Mania now, because really in the last few years, Wrestlemania has become "Just another PPV", with basically the legacy of the Wrestlemania name being another primary selling point. And do we remember Orton/HHH from WM 25? No, we remember 'Taker/Shawn! And correct me if I'm wrong...but 'Taker/Edge is only the SECOND, Smackdown main event to close 'Mania.

 

[Suibon]

Theres a set formula to all his matches his latest against HHH is another example.

The match to me hilighted undertakers limitations half of the match was nothing but ground stuff , then as per an Undertaker match, finishers get kicked out of but in the end he always wins.

then he gets another few months off, gets to have another formulated match, followed by another few months off.

When John Cena does the same he gets ripped, but Undertaker is praised, why is that?

Every wrestler - er, sports entertainer - has his set formulae, whether it be John Cena or the Undertaker.

Also, the Undertaker, believe it or not, has been working matches for two decades plus. Not only run-of-the-mill matches but matches like Hell in a Cell with guys like Mick Foley, when blood was still allowed to flow freely in the E.

A pity John Cena has been lambasted as hard as he has been. I sympathize. But really, don't vent your frustrations on a 46-year-old who has suffered more for far longer than John Cena would ever experience today till the end of his own career.
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