The NXT Thread Is Like Ring of Honor's Bay-Bay!

[Uncle Sam]

Hey, I didn't watch Bobby Fish get kicked in the head on loop for five minutes last night to be told a special kick is inherently more ludicrous than a special clothesline or a special punch or a special slam.

Edit: Also, let's not forget our basic wrestling theory here, chaps. Can it be used on anyone? Can it be used as a surprise? Can you precede it with a cool set-up? Do you have to send Bobby Fish's widow (I'm assuming he's straight and
married for the purposes of this example) a ham after using it? It ticks all the boxes.

Edit2:

I'll die on this hill.

 

[Барбоса]

The Black Mass to Fish was the best version of it so far. Before that though, it has been just another kick to the head.

There have been times mid-Black match when he has done a kick to the head that was basically the Black Mass but because it would not the finish of the match, it was not sold as such.

It just has not looked different enough to his other kicks, and therefore not that special at all. It is a similar underlying problem to Big Show's WMD or Okada's Rainmaker - its not that it is just a punch or a clothesline, it is that you do punches and clotheslines throughout the match and your supposed finisher looks no different whatsoever.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

The Black Mass to Fish was the best version of it so far. Before that though, it has been just another kick to the head.

There have been times mid-Black match when he has done a kick to the head that was basically the Black Mass but because it would not the finish of the match, it was not sold as such.

It just has not looked different enough to his other kicks, and therefore not that special at all. It is a similar underlying problem to Big Show's WMD or Okada's Rainmaker - its not that it is just a punch or a clothesline, it is that you do punches and clotheslines throughout the match and your supposed finisher looks no different whatsoever.

I really don't get the Rainmaker. A short arm clothesline... alright.


I like the black mass but again motherfuckers at NXT slap their knees to any offensive move and it just suuuuuuucks.


This, this is where it comes back to hurt them. When a kick ass kick like is deemed debatable.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

If Black's only use of kicks were head kicks, or at least he won off each head kick, I would be more okay with it.

I rather enjoy kicks, but a legit kick to the head needs to be a match ender almost always. I know wrestling isn't MMA, but a fluid unblocked head kick typically does big damage, often staggering or knocking a guy down or out. At least when Punk used to use his head kicks, he had a tendency to use them out of desperation.

I mean Rich Swann uses a very similar kick at times as his finisher, and as much as I do like Swann, it doesn't feel like a match ender.

It's the same with Bayley. Bayley is my favorite lady in wrestling, she is the only person not named New Day that I have multiple shirts of, and while the idea of the Belly to Bayley fits her character, it's nothing more than a standard belly to belly suplex. Big E throws three a match, Scott Steiner once used eight in a match against Triple H. I have a hard time believing a move that is used so commonly by other wrestlers can be a finish for someone else.

 

[Stormtrooper]

It's the same with Bayley. Bayley is my favorite lady in wrestling, she is the only person not named New Day that I have multiple shirts of, and while the idea of the Belly to Bayley fits her character, it's nothing more than a standard belly to belly suplex. Big E throws three a match, Scott Steiner once used eight in a match against Triple H. I have a hard time believing a move that is used so commonly by other wrestlers can be a finish for someone else.

You lose me on this part.

Using this logic, you can't believe a Hulk Hogan Leg Drop would be a finish. Nor do you believe Big Show punching someone in the face is a finish.

Any move can be a good finish if you build the move up as a finish.

 

[a0161613]

The leg drop was different back in the day. No one kicked out of it when Hogan did it. And Hogan didn't wrestle on TV week in week out.

Plenty of people survived Big Show's punch. And if they did they were still on Raw the next night. With no ill effects.

Yet Taker evolved to have multiple finishers. In the early 90's the idea that anyone would survive a Tombstone was unthinkable. It's not something that many have done.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

You lose me on this part.

Using this logic, you can't believe a Hulk Hogan Leg Drop would be a finish. Nor do you believe Big Show punching someone in the face is a finish.

Any move can be a good finish if you build the move up as a finish.

I have to disagree. The People's Elbow was a finish. That is about as shit a finish as they came. Not every move can be a good finish no matter how you build it up.

That's why the WMD is a shit finish. Now I get that in kayfabe that Big Show is the biggest athlete in the world and he has big hands, so his punches should hurt more. That isn't my issue. My issue is that during matches Big Show will throw regular punches and they don't have the same effect. You can't use a move multiple times in a match, then use the same move and give it a fancy title and expect it to have a greater impact. Plus, how many guys in wrestling have been giants and punched people and it didn't knock them out? Undertaker and Kane never knocked anyone out with a single punch, Andre never did it, Khali would chop people so I guess that's in the same ballpark, Giant Gonzalez never did it. Braun can't do it. And Show didn't even use it his whole career. He had been punching guys in the face for years with no comparable effect. It didn't become the KO punch until '08.

And yeah, unpopular opinion, but Hogan's leg drop was a bad finisher. Hogan was fairly big, but it was his arms that got all the attention, never his legs. If he had meaty thick tree trunk legs, then the leg drop wouldn't have been as bad, but the move is only iconic because Hogan used it. Any finish Hogan used would have been iconic. Give anyone else of comparable size the leg drop and build it the same way Hogan built his up, and people wouldn't buy it. This isn't a criticism of his in ring style because even Hogan himself joked all he had were three punches and a leg drop. My criticism is that punching a guy three times after getting beat up for ten minutes, dropping with him a boot to the face or a body slam, and then dropping a leg on him isn't a good build.

And I'm not trying to ignore your point. If Bayley had some of amateur wrestling background then I think her finish would be more impactful, but no matter how you try to sell it or build to it, a move that 95% of the roster does isn't going to be a good finish, especially when legit power lifters and amateur wrestlers are doing it for two counts and some random lady is winning titles off it.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Jeez, forget I brought it up.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

 

[Uncle Sam]

RIP American Alpha. Too beautiful to live.

 

[.]

dolph Ziggler got a sleeper hold over as a finisher for a while folks. Anything is possible. Wrestling is fake.

I still fucking love Andrade btw.

 

[Барбоса]

dolph Ziggler got a sleeper hold over as a finisher for a while folks. Anything is possible. Wrestling is fake.

The perceived weakness of the finisher was not the crux of the discussion though.

It was that Black and Show's finishers were no different from moves they do/did frequently during the match.

As the likes of Hogan and Rock have proven, getting even the silliest/weakest finisher over is more than possible, but it would not have helped had Hogan had a standing legdrop in his arsenal or the Rock did several elbow drops during every match.

It would be like Ziggler having the elevated sleeper hold with leg scissors as his finisher but used a normal standing sleeper hold during the match.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Do you mind? I'm trying to mourn.

 

[Барбоса]

Do you mind? I'm trying to mourn.

Don't worry. You'll have plenty to celebrate when Chad Gable Chaos Theorys Neville for the Cruiserweight title on the Survivor Series pre-show.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Poor Sam.

 

[nightmare]

The way Black sets that kick up is glorious. He had me at hello.

Let's all just copy/paste Sam's post on it so its truth can ring louder than the noise in Bobby's skull.

Oh, and he can add 50% more kicks before the big one & it still wont touch the ridiculous amount of overuse Okada has given his shit clothesline.

 

[klunderbunker]

NXT
Date: July 19, 2017
Location: Full Sail University, Winter Park, Florida
Commentators: Mauro Ranallo, Nigel McGuinness, Percy Watson

It’s all about the NXT Title tonight as Drew McIntyre faces Killian Dane for the title shot at Takeover: Brooklyn. Bobby Roode suggested the match for the shot at his title, which would suggest than shenanigans are afoot. Other than that we’re getting ready for the rest of the show, which is just a month away. Let’s get to it.

Click on the link below for the full review.

I'm Getting the Itch

 

[Sai the Uganda Guy]

The "SWEET!" after all these false finishes is very, very annoying.
Lovely show though.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Is there anybody in wrestling right now with a cooler a) entrance, b) finisher, c) t-shirt, d) look, or e) taunt than Aleister Black? I was already a fan of him when he was Tommy End but he's taken to WWE like a duck to water. I don't see how Vince doesn't look at him and see a giant talking dollar bill.

Seriously. I know it's probably just an unused Undertaker entrance but the rising from the grave thing is up there with Gangrel and Rey Mysterio when it comes to cool as fuck entrances. But this is probably all in poor taste considering Bobby Fish's body isn't even cold yet.

My favorite current wrestler. His in-ring is boss as fuck too. Seems to be the type who could but on bust-ass matches with pretty much anyone.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

Looks like Donovan Dijak is coming soon, he's no longer accepting Indy bookings and is wrapping up his Indy dates next month. I just want him to keep his reverse GTS finisher.

 

[Uncle Sam]

You know who I wouldn't have any qualms with being served as a challenger for Bobby Roode? Oney Lorcan.

 

[Барбоса]

You know who I wouldn't have any qualms with being served as a challenger for Bobby Roode? Oney Lorcan.

Absolutely.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Oney is great. I'd love to see him beat on Bobby for six or seven minutes while he tries to run away only to pull off a dastardly heel win.

 

[Барбоса]

You know who I wouldn't have any qualms with being served as a challenger for Bobby Roode? Oney Lorcan.

Absolutely.

EDIT: Seemingly WZ decided that I agreed so much with Sam that it had to be posted twice, three hours later...

 

[Black Anaconda Vise]

Hopefully Oney and Butch get more time for their rematch, maybe a match at Takeover. One of the few things I like more than a hoss match is a mean-guy match