The ECW Invasion Dreamer, Raven, Richards & More!

[It's Damn Real!]

** MODERATORS NOTE **
----------
This is now the "All Things ECW Invasion" thread. There is no point to having numerous discussions about this seeing as they all pertain to the same topic, so marginal & semantic off-shoots are unnecessary – let's keep all the Tommy Dreamer, Raven, Richards, Rhino and ECW discussion here.

For those of you who didn't see or haven't heard by now (what, do you live under a fuckin' rock?), the "Innovator of Violence" himself – "The Heart & Sould of ECW" Tommy Dreamer debuted in TNA last night interfering in the singles match with Jesse Neal & Brother Ray of Team 3D when he came down through the crowd and into the pit smiling mercilessly at Ray as he was propped up on the 2nd rope.

Dreamer's presence caused Ray to subsequently lose the match to Neal who eventually hit Ray with the spear to gain the pin-fall victory.

The question is, what does TNA want with Tommy Dreamer, or more importantly, what does Tommy Dreamer want with TNA?

We've all heard the rumors of the ECW stable floating around the IWC for weeks now, but until last night we hadn't really caught a glimpse of it until now.

--

That said, it's Q&A Time!

• What are your thoughts on Dreamer's debut? Was it handled well?

• Do you think this is a prelude to an ECW invasion style storyline where other "ECW Originals" would show face in TNA as well? If so, who else do you see debuting or re-debuting with the company in the [near] future? Sandman? Sabu?

• Do you think Dreamer has anything to do with Dixie's hyped up tidbits about something that will "change TNA forever"?

PLEASE DO NOT SPAM THIS THREAD with side-tracked nonsense about what a failure the "big surprise" was and how it spells nothing but doom & gloom for TNA. If you think the surprise was a failure, by all means, post it, but please don't simply post it as a means to incite TNA fans over a product they still watch simply because you don't.

** MODERATORS NOTE **
----------
This is now the "All Things ECW Invasion" thread. There is no point to having numerous discussions about this seeing as they all pertain to the same topic, so marginal & semantic off-shoots are unnecessary – let's keep all the Tommy Dreamer, Raven, Richards, Rhino and ECW discussion here.

 

[The Insano Shiekh]

• What are your thoughts on Dreamer's debut? Was it handled well?

• Do you think this is a prelude to an ECW invasion style storyline where other "ECW Originals" would show face in TNA as well? If so, who else do you see debuting or re-debuting with the company in the [near] future? Sandman? Sabu?

• Do you think Dreamer has anything to do with Dixie's hyped up tidbits about something that will "change TNA forever"?[/b]

For question number one, I'm going to say no. Dreamer just showing up isn't really a debut in my opinion, because how many times has it been done before? I know so many things are recycled in wrestling, but at least give Dreamer a unique debut so we don't have to see this little three week "debut" process again. It really gets on my nerves how the 'E and TNA both do this so many times, it just starts to get old really fast.

To question number two, N-O. It's possible that the 'E is ticked off at Dreamer for jumping ship so quickly, and it's gone from Dreamer being on good to bad terms with the WWE. And if they go calling themselves the "ECW Originals", that's a definite lawsuit from the 'E because they have the name trademarked from the New Breed vs. ECW Originals feud back in '06 or '07. TNA better play their cards right on this one, because it could possibly mean the end of the company...possibly.

To the third question, yes, I do believe he has something to do with the "change" Dixie's talking about, and that just leads me deeper into the assumption that Paul Heyman has come to TNA. Dreamer and Heyman had some partnerships/feuds in the old ECW, and I believe Heyman might have managed him once after the Invasion angle in the 'E. If Raven and Rhyno come back, I'm going to know that it's Heyman, because they are going to form an ECW type stable. But, unlike most of the IWC, I think that Dreamer, Heyman, and possibly two other people are going to turn on the Dudleyz and it could lead to a short alliance with the Dudleyz and Ink Inc.

 

[flocker]

If Heyman shows up, that will be awesome! Yeah, ecw originals is almost certainly copyrighted. But there is always a way to work in the word "exxxtreme" (I was trying to write it the way Paulie said it.
Taz, Raven, Rhyno, Stevie, 3D, are already there. Now Tommy. The "real" question is what are Sign Guy Dudley and Komono Wannalaya doing?
Does Shane Douglas have one last run in him?

 

[NYJETMET]

Does TNA really want to go there?

Dreamer, and the Dudley's are 40, Raven and Shane Douglas are 46 and the Sandman is 47.

Really bad idea by TNA.

 

[harrythem]

Dreamer, and the Dudley's are 40, Raven and Shane Douglas are 46 and the Sandman is 47.

Really bad idea by TNA.

Compared to the main stars in TNA their pretty much part of the youth movement I'd say.

Seriously though, Tommy Dreamer on screen sucks but, as an agent or even just a go to guy between management and talent, he can be a real asset to TNA. Hell, if he's gonna have to have one on screen feud why not repeat the ECW Dreamer Vs Foley, that was great and there'd be no chance of Dreamer Vs Raven for the simple fact that TNA doesn't have the attention span to book a long running episodic feud

 

[Slapjack3k]

I don't want to see an invasion angle, especially with the ECW guys. I don't see what it can possibly bring to TNA except nostalgia, and they already have that up the arse via Hogan and Flair. All it would mean for TNA would be different people throwing Abyss into barbed wire.

I'm glad Tommy Dreamer is still kicking about and I think he'd be great backstage. If you have to, bring him out for the odd hardcore match with Abyss or Raven (is Raven still employed?). I'm not sure how this thing with the Dudley Boyz is going to progress, but I'll reserve judgement.

On another note, ECW was pretty much no DQ for every match, yet I remember almost all the tag team matches required "legal tagging". It just seemed odd that more people didn't just jump the rope and pile in. Wasn't like they would get DQd or anything right?

 

[CDoherty]

On another note, ECW was pretty much no DQ for every match, yet I remember almost all the tag team matches required "legal tagging". It just seemed odd that more people didn't just jump the rope and pile in. Wasn't like they would get DQd or anything right?

It wasn't so much as a every match being no DQ as just letting the wrestlers go at it and used weopons, as at that time everyone was sick of WWE and WCW DQ's every other match. For kayfabe the ref was allowing it. Their were no contests in ECW, but it was just more of giving the fans what they wanted.

On another note is their still fans who want to see Dreamer wrestle, seriously? He's a Terry Funk where with age he's slower and his mathes getting boring, unlike when he was in the orginal ECW. Guys like Flair and Steamboat can still move but Dreamer is like a mummy wrestling.

Great agent or manager but I really don't want to see him wrestle, put him with INK maybe. Honestly to me it was a wasted sign, taking someone elses time I would rather see get it. (Petey Williams, Sonjay Dutt)

 

[closet_fan]

i had figured the surprise dixie was mentioning, even though it wasn't the big one, was dreamer. ehhh. it's ok. i don't think there was any doubt he would end up in tna, it was more a matter of when.

dreamer hasn't really been that relevant since the old old ecw days. i don't see him doing a heck of a lot in tna. to me, he is kind of boring.

i do agree with the one poster that wrote he can contribute backstage. i think it would be great if they let him give some ideas to some of the storylines.

but in the end, i don't see him being that involved.

and i don't even want to see shane douglas again. he was so out of shape in his last run, i was embarrassed for him.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

This is just like when Al-Snow came in and distracted Foley, during Angle and Rhyno match last year...

Obviously that was a 1-time deal...this Dreamer thing, we know he is going to stay...now i heard they will do a ecw stable, plus hype that heyman has signed to the creative team...but maybe dreamer will start a faction against them..i mean obviuously he distractd Ray...and not Neal..

 

[LegendKiller716]

I think the debut of Dreamer would have been better had he actually hit Ray, rather than just distracting him.

As for the ECW stable, I think it could be good if lead by Heyman and if they tried to add a few younger guys in. On the other hand, TNA already has a stable of old people running around(the band). So I guess my answer would depend on how TNA would handle both the band and the new extreme stable.

Can this be the surprise Dixie has been talking about? Maybe, but if so it would be a real downer for me. I don't really have a thought of what the surprise could be though, so maybe it will be an ECW invasion which will see guys like Sandman and Sabu return, and have guys like Raven and Steven Richards become relevant again. Also the group, if it included RVD would automatically gain credibility because they would have the gold. I think they should hold off on an invasion angle though, because WWE has one going on right now, so if this is Dixie's surprise it is really bad timing.

 

[brighamosity]

I personally couldn't care less about Tommy Dreamer. Never have, never will. He's nothing more than a hardcore jobber. And bringing back ECW is the worst idea ever. TNA already has enough nastalgia right now. If anything, bringing back ECW is ripping off WWE because they already did it.

 

[Mr-excitement]

Tommy Dreamer has not been relevant for 15 years as far as wrestling goes - it won't make me buy a ticket, ppv or change my channel.

Seriously TNA needs to impose a "no more former JCP/ECW or WWE guys" unless they are CURRENTLY relevant.

 

[MB1025]

I honestly don't know where people are getting that this is going to be an invasion type angle. He distracted Brother Ray from the crowd. He obviously is going to have some sort of angle with that. If it was an invasion he wouldn't just distract people from the crowd. I think this is more of trying to get people that Paul Heyman trusts who have backstage experience so he will feel more comfortable coming in. I mean Dixie Carter specifically told us her tweets had nothing to do with Paul Heyman. Why specify in a tweet unless it has a lot to do with him.

 

[Alex]

I see Tommy Dreamer being a mentor to Jesse Neal that 'Brother Ray never was' helping him become more 'hardcore'. Neal faces off against Ray beating him and Ray gets pissed and says he'll find a new student and brings in someone (Shannon Moore possibly) having the students face off against each other at a PPV to see who has the best mentor.

This puts Dreamer into a interesting story and he doesn't neccessarily have to get into the ring to be useful, it keeps Ray out of singles competition and puts empahisis on the students.

 

[AmericanDragonSW]

I'm not going to agree with those that weigh heavy on Dreamer since I like the guy and respect him. And he was one of my favorites in the real ECW. That being said I don't think this was the surprise that Dixie Carter was looking for. I still think the last time TNA had a surprise that shook the ground of TNA's foundation, it was when they signed Kurt Angle. Dreamer might be a bit of this surprise but I think there is still more to come. Frankly I will take anything because so far having Hogan and Bischoff in TNA has done nothing in my opinion. There are some exceptions but for the most part I feel like it's a step backwards for TNA.

 

[Suffy]

To question number two, N-O. It's possible that the 'E is ticked off at Dreamer for jumping ship so quickly, and it's gone from Dreamer being on good to bad terms with the WWE.

Not to discredit the guy, but I doubt the WWE could careless what Tommy Dreamer does or where he is going.

With that said I don't feel there was anything initially planned for Dreamer at the moment other than bringing him in just to bring him in. It all seems thrown together. Kind of like Taz's "debut" as Joe's mentor which lasted a month. Also wasn't Dreamer the reason why Bubba Ray lost?

It's possible they could try and rip off the current Nvasion angle going on and create aECW invasion type angle. Personally I think he'd be best as some type of manager or authority type figure. Because and again not to discredit the guy he isn't the type stemming off his WWECW run to make me wanna watch TNA or buy a PPV featuring him.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Tommy Dreamer is someone that I've never particularly cared about at anytime or point in his career. I know, I know that he was an important figure back in the glory days of ECW and all that I don't really give a shit to be perfectly honest. If you want to be perfectly honest, Tommy Dreamer hasn't been relevant in pro wrestling in well over a decade.

Most of the people still into Dreamer are long time ECW fans or people that watch ECW clips on youtube. These fans are the ones that are hoping and preying that, somehow or another, TNA will somehow be transformed into an ECW type of environment with all these ECW originals on the roster and the hope that Paul Heyman will someday join the roster. ECW has had its day and it's over, just like Tommy Dreamer.

 

[jccool420]

Dreamer... Never was too big of a fan, but I did enjoy his EcW fued with Raven... But, I think back then Raven could've carried a fued with anyone...

I remember back when TNA were first talking about bringing Dreamer in, it was mentioned that he would only sign on if he could be involved in creative some how...

From what I've heard about Dreamer, he's a very handy guy to have around backsage... So, hopefully they just use him on TV for a couple months, maybe relive the Raven fued one more time and then move him to a backstage role...

Does anyone think Dreamer can help out creative wise?

 

[wushady]

His debut was nothing spectacular, but it wasn't horrible. I don't think he'll contribute much as a wrestler, but he'll be great behind the scenes either in creative or as a agent.

As for a possible ECW faction I think that's a really bad idea. They already take a lot of heat for rehashing old storylines. With Dreamer debuting by costing Brother Ray his match. I don't think they're going in that direction at least I hope not.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Maybe Dreamer will be a mentor to Jesse and then turn on him aligning himself with Team 3D. Bubba and D-Von have switched from heel and face so many times their heads are spinning. Maybe with the addition of Foley, Raven, and Stevie they could form a faction. I don't know how "extreme" they could be since most of them are reaching or are over 40. I really don't even think Paul Heyman could make ECW relevant again.

I see Dreamer as a mentor becoming part of a faction. Soon the faction will die out and Dreamer will be facing Abyss or Foley in hardcore matches.

 

[Reddannihilation]

If they plan to go ahead with this rumoured ECW faction I could see it working in a way. With 3D, Dreamer, Raven, Richards and Rhyno still on the TNA roster I could see a relativley interesting faction coming about. Instead I'd have the ECW faction work as mid-card only, maybe they'd hold the Global title or something. Having them feud with some of the younger stars (So long as it remains 2-3 young guys vs the whole faction) might help to get them over, it'd also allow TNA to perhaps forge a young hardcore division which would greatly help them do two things, 1.) re-inforce the WWE-alternative they claim to portray 2.) make wrestlers like Jesse Neal,etc. More interesting by allowing them to work with weapons.

As far as a backstage role I think Dreamer could be quite useful as in helping some of the mid-card develop more interesting characters. He may not have been all that interesting in WWE, but in ECW Tommy Dreamer did undergo a pretty good character revamp and I think he could help guys like Moore and Neal get over moreso.

Granted this could go a number of ways, if Foley comes back and gets involved we might see the heel Abyss (fingers crossed) align with some of the ECW crew as a "successor" to hardcore and feud with the mid-card faces in gimmick matches to rebuild his credibility. Hopefully we'll either get Dreamer acting in a mentor role against 3D or we'll get the faction. So long as they focus on using Tommy to help the younger guys develop I'm happy but I don't want to see him taking up a lot of ring time outside the occasional tag-match with his protege(s).

 

[MisterRob]

• What are your thoughts on Dreamer's debut? Was it handled well?

I think it was completely forgettable. In a year from now no one will even remember Tommy Dreamer's debut at the PPV because it was nothing unique and nothing interesting.

• Do you think this is a prelude to an ECW invasion style storyline where other "ECW Originals" would show face in TNA as well? If so, who else do you see debuting or re-debuting with the company in the [near] future? Sandman? Sabu?

Knowing TNA I think it's entirely possible that there will be an ECW style invasion. Personally I think it's a horrible idea. ECW has run it's course and is no longer relevant to today's wrestling era, and TNA should be trying to come up new angles and new ways to push their upcoming talent, not focusing on old stars and old angles. How many times has TNA brought back some sort of reference to the ECW Originals and factions made up of them? Several times, and each time it's unforgettable and short lived. It just doesn't work anymore.

• Do you think Dreamer has anything to do with Dixie's hyped up tidbits about something that will "change TNA forever"?

Probably. Dixie is the Queen of exaggeration.

 

[Ballin247]

I say they release Dreamer immediately or at least take him off TV and make him an agent. This is such a shitty idea of an ECW invasion. These guys are all old and irrelevant. This is why WWE will always be better. WWE is doing an invasion with a bunch of young up-and-comers which is way more exciting than the ECW invasion vol.4

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I say they release Dreamer immediately or at least take him off TV and make him an agent. This is such a shitty idea of an ECW invasion. These guys are all old and irrelevant. This is why WWE will always be better. WWE is doing an invasion with a bunch of young up-and-comers which is way more exciting than the ECW invasion vol.4

So go talk about the NXT invasion in an NXT thread then, man – no one cares about that in this thread. It's why I specifically noted in the OP that I didn't want to be drawing unfair comparisons to the WWE with regard to Dreamer's debut.

Read it again:

PLEASE DO NOT SPAM THIS THREAD with side-tracked nonsense about what a failure the "big surprise" was and how it spells nothing but doom & gloom for TNA. If you think the surprise was a failure, by all means, post it, but please don't simply post it as a means to incite TNA fans over a product they still watch simply because you don't.

This "ECW invasion vol.4" hasn't even come to fruition yet, and yet you have the ridiculously biased gall to say that the NXT angle is "way more exciting"? On what grounds exactly – the ones where you base all your conclusions off the general sentiments and concerns of the IWC, or the ones that couldn't possibly know that seeing as this hasn't actually been fulfilled yet – or perhaps both?

 

[Money Inc.]

I wonder if Team 3D will be aligned/feuding with Dreamer

I'm very happy they inserted him in 3D's match simply because it was a good way for the casual fan to forget how awful the Jesse Neal/Bubba feud was. This way you can either build this "extreme" alliance, or have 3D feuding with Dreamer.

I personally want to see the EV2 faction but I don't think they'll book it right. I think they'll end up having Dreamer feud with 3D and hopefully Dreamer gets real and talks about how 3D sold out on the ECW (storyline purpose)