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you must have a freakish amount of fingers if you can count ortons great matches on one hand,hell hes even been able to have entertaining matches with cena, and thats damn impressive.

and i know that cenas beaten jericho a ton, the point of my earlier post was to name some wrestlers who are more talented than cena but cenas still been booked to beat like you asked me to.

It was damn impressive that Cena got a good match out of Orton.

Cena has been the best for five years and has beaten everybody so there hasn't been any better wrestlers than Cena that he has beaten.
 
It was damn impressive that Cena got a good match out of Orton.

Cena has been the best for five years and has beaten everybody so there hasn't been any better wrestlers than Cena that he has beaten.

wow i never thought id see anybody say cena carried a match with orton, im not speechless but im pretty damn shocked

again i realize that vince has booked cena to go over everybody and i know that he has constantley had the title. other wrestlers in the tournament have had titles too and are simpley better. i just dont see cena as a great wrestler and winning this tournament. if you would i would really like some examples of what you consider great cena matches so i can better see were u are coming from.
 
Vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
Vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2006
Vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007
Vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23 and Raw 2007
Vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
Vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
Vs. Triple H and Randy Orton, WrestleMania XXIV
Vs. Triple H, Night of Champions 2008
Vs. Batista, SummerSlam 2008
Vs. Chris Jericho, Survivor Series 2008
Vs. JBL, Royal Rumble 2009
Vs. Edge and The Big Show, WrestleMania 25th Anniversary
Vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
Vs. Triple H and Randy Orton, Night of Champions 2009
Vs. Randy Orton, Breaking Point and Hell in a Cell 2009
Vs. Batista, WrestleMania XXVI

Those are just a few of the many.
 
Forgot about Bragging Rights.

Add another to the total. And yes, Cena was just as responsible for all of the Orton matches being great as Orton was.
 
Well he's able to switch from funny to serious mode pretty quickly, but I don't really think he delivers all of his lines the same. And I know people complain a lot about the yelling, but what's wrong with a guy showing a little passion?
 
Well he's able to switch from funny to serious mode pretty quickly,

Not convincingly.

but I don't really think he delivers all of his lines the same.

Watch the I Quit match with Orton last year. He's hurting, he's just been give a prolonged beating, yet he says ''no'', in realtion to being asked if he'll quit, in the exact same manner throughout.

And I know people complain a lot about the yelling, but what's wrong with a guy showing a little passion?

Nothing, but shouty Cena delivers passionate speaches like a guy who's had his passionate speaches written for him.
 
Vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
Vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2006
Vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007
Vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23 and Raw 2007
Vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
Vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
Vs. Triple H and Randy Orton, WrestleMania XXIV
Vs. Triple H, Night of Champions 2008
Vs. Batista, SummerSlam 2008
Vs. Chris Jericho, Survivor Series 2008
Vs. JBL, Royal Rumble 2009
Vs. Edge and The Big Show, WrestleMania 25th Anniversary
Vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
Vs. Triple H and Randy Orton, Night of Champions 2009
Vs. Randy Orton, Breaking Point and Hell in a Cell 2009
Vs. Batista, WrestleMania XXVI

Those are just a few of the many.

well im sorry but im going to have to disagree with most of these being great matches. and the ones that were actually good i cant attribute to the skill of john cena.

ive already mentioned how i felt about orton and jericho carrying the matches and the same can go for hbk and hhh, the only problem is not all these matches were that good, and when u cant have a solid match with one of these four you shouldnt be in the main event, even though he always is.

the jbl mas nothing special but thats not cenas fault as jbl was nowhere near the best shape of his life. although i would have given you his first fued with jbl as a whole because thats the last time i really enjoyed cena.

didnt like the batista matches but thats because both of them always seem to do the same thing in the ring, its never anything different.

the rvd match was good but that was because it was so great to see him get the title, but it still bothers me today that they wouldnt let rvd go over cena by himself.

the umaga vs cena was your average boring good guy going over monster.

cenas strenghth was impressive in the edge and bigshow match but his wrestling wasnt. and in his hundreds of matches with edge the only thing that stands out in my mind is the fu edge took of the ladder through the tables and that doesnt take any talent on cenas part.

and his promos are always the exact sane now so he doesnt have that going for him anymore. ill have to deal with cena if i wanna watch wwe but he has no business winning a tournament like this.
 
well im sorry but im going to have to disagree with most of these being great matches. and the ones that were actually good i cant attribute to the skill of john cena.

ive already mentioned how i felt about orton and jericho carrying the matches and the same can go for hbk and hhh, the only problem is not all these matches were that good, and when u cant have a solid match with one of these four you shouldnt be in the main event, even though he always is.

the jbl mas nothing special but thats not cenas fault as jbl was nowhere near the best shape of his life. although i would have given you his first fued with jbl as a whole because thats the last time i really enjoyed cena.

didnt like the batista matches but thats because both of them always seem to do the same thing in the ring, its never anything different.

the rvd match was good but that was because it was so great to see him get the title, but it still bothers me today that they wouldnt let rvd go over cena by himself.

the umaga vs cena was your average boring good guy going over monster.

cenas strenghth was impressive in the edge and bigshow match but his wrestling wasnt. and in his hundreds of matches with edge the only thing that stands out in my mind is the fu edge took of the ladder through the tables and that doesnt take any talent on cenas part.

and his promos are always the exact sane now so he doesnt have that going for him anymore. ill have to deal with cena if i wanna watch wwe but he has no business winning a tournament like this.

I suggest you go watch ONS 2006 again. Cena had that crowd in the palm of his hand and he was brilliant in that match. RVD chose to have that match there so he got what he wanted.

The only wrestler to get good matches out of Orton routinely is the Undertaker and if the Undertaker can't get a good match out of you, then you don't amount to much.

The Cena/JBL I Quit Match was bloody and brutal and Cena showed he can get violent if need be.
 
I suggest you go watch ONS 2006 again. Cena had that crowd in the palm of his hand and he was brilliant in that match. RVD chose to have that match there so he got what he wanted.

The only wrestler to get good matches out of Orton routinely is the Undertaker and if the Undertaker can't get a good match out of you, then you don't amount to much.

The Cena/JBL I Quit Match was bloody and brutal and Cena showed he can get violent if need be.

the crowd was so hot because of the love they had for rvd.

and as i said before and you chose to ignore, the last time i consostantley enjoyed cena was during his first fued with jbl, which includes the i quit match but it wasnt on the list of great cena matches i was given. i did really enjoy that one but randy orton had a better bloody and brutal match in his hardcore match against foley
 
well im sorry but im going to have to disagree with most of these being great matches. and the ones that were actually good i cant attribute to the skill of john cena.

ive already mentioned how i felt about orton and jericho carrying the matches and the same can go for hbk and hhh, the only problem is not all these matches were that good, and when u cant have a solid match with one of these four you shouldnt be in the main event, even though he always is.
Why is Orton a better in-ring worker than Cena? I have no idea why people keep saying that, he's put on some really good matches too but nowhere near the same level of consistency.

And that Raw match is one of HBK's best matches, not just one of Cena's. Without commercial interruptions it would have been even better. Just fantastic back and forth action throughout.
didnt like the batista matches but thats because both of them always seem to do the same thing in the ring, its never anything different.
Batista maybe, those Cena matches I listed proved that he's capable of wrestling all kinds of different matches. Also, they only got 13 minutes at WrestleMania and still managed to put on one of the best matches.
the rvd match was good but that was because it was so great to see him get the title, but it still bothers me today that they wouldnt let rvd go over cena by himself.
And also because Cena played the heel role to absolute perfection.
the umaga vs cena was your average boring good guy going over monster.
No, it really wasn't. I mean I guess that was the basic formula, but they performed to a whole different level than your average underdog vs. monster match. Easily one of the best Last Man Standing matches I've ever seen.
cenas strenghth was impressive in the edge and bigshow match but his wrestling wasnt. and in his hundreds of matches with edge the only thing that stands out in my mind is the fu edge took of the ladder through the tables and that doesnt take any talent on cenas part.
Yeah, let's just completely forget about the spotlight bump.
 
Why is Orton a better in-ring worker than Cena? I have no idea why people keep saying that, he's put on some really good matches too but nowhere near the same level of consistency.

And that Raw match is one of HBK's best matches, not just one of Cena's. Without commercial interruptions it would have been even better. Just fantastic back and forth action throughout.

Batista maybe, those Cena matches I listed proved that he's capable of wrestling all kinds of different matches. Also, they only got 13 minutes at WrestleMania and still managed to put on one of the best matches.

And also because Cena played the heel role to absolute perfection.

No, it really wasn't. I mean I guess that was the basic formula, but they performed to a whole different level than your average underdog vs. monster match. Easily one of the best Last Man Standing matches I've ever seen.

Yeah, let's just completely forget about the spotlight bump.

orton is better in the ring because he shows more emotion and can sell much better. he can really tell a story with his expressions. amd he has a better moveset.

it was a good match because hbk worked his ass off to do so, and hbk has had many much better matches then that one.

they only gave them 13 minutes because they couldnt pull of a standard singles match any longer and make it look halfway decent. and in those matches you put cena still did about the same thing hes done every match for years.

he was a fine heel because i did hate him but i feel the same way when hes face.

it was no better than anyother monster vs underdog story and there have been plenty of better last man standing matches.

the spotlight spot would have been good if cena would have sold it decent. he acted as if he was in top shape about a week later.
 
Cena is going to fall early to many great ring technicians and to many true powerhouses thatll toss him around like their personal bitch
 
Vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22

Average

Vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2006

Decent match but it was Extreme Rules and the crowd was booing the top babyface in the company maliciously. Thats never a good thing.

Vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007

Dreadful

Vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23 and Raw 2007

Overrated and solid for a tv match.

Vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007

Overrated

Vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007

Would have been better if Cena lost.

Vs. Triple H and Randy Orton, WrestleMania XXIV

and who won the match?

Vs. Triple H, Night of Champions 2008

Again Cena lost

Vs. Batista, SummerSlam 2008

I'm sensing a pattern

Vs. Chris Jericho, Survivor Series 2008
Vs. JBL, Royal Rumble 2009
Vs. Edge and The Big Show, WrestleMania 25th Anniversary
Vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
Vs. Triple H and Randy Orton, Night of Champions 2009
Vs. Randy Orton, Breaking Point and Hell in a Cell 2009
Vs. Batista, WrestleMania XXVI

I saved myself trouble because the rest of those were shit. It seems to me Cena's best matches are the ones he loses Probably because people wanna see him lose so bad. It's just so easy to hate him. He should really just turn heel again already. No better heat than boring the piss out of the crowd.
 
orton is better in the ring because he shows more emotion and can sell much better. he can really tell a story with his expressions. amd he has a better moveset.

it was a good match because hbk worked his ass off to do so, and hbk has had many much better matches then that one.

they only gave them 13 minutes because they couldnt pull of a standard singles match any longer and make it look halfway decent. and in those matches you put cena still did about the same thing hes done every match for years.

he was a fine heel because i did hate him but i feel the same way when hes face.

it was no better than anyother monster vs underdog story and there have been plenty of better last man standing matches.

the spotlight spot would have been good if cena would have sold it decent. he acted as if he was in top shape about a week later.

I guess you can be great if you know 10000 different variations of a headlock. Orton still oversells too much for my liking, although not as much as HBK.

When HBK faced Cena, that was HBK's best match in two years mostly because he only wrestles like half the year so that is an accomplishment for Cena.
 
Average



Decent match but it was Extreme Rules and the crowd was booing the top babyface in the company maliciously. Thats never a good thing.



Dreadful



Overrated and solid for a tv match.



Overrated



Would have been better if Cena lost.



and who won the match?



Again Cena lost



I'm sensing a pattern



I saved myself trouble because the rest of those were shit. It seems to me Cena's best matches are the ones he loses Probably because people wanna see him lose so bad. It's just so easy to hate him. He should really just turn heel again already. No better heat than boring the piss out of the crowd.

Of course they were going to boo Cena at ONS. RVD was going to get the full support of ECW in that match and you honestly think people there were going to cheer Cena since he was the face.
 
Of course they were going to boo Cena at ONS. RVD was going to get the full support of ECW in that match and you honestly think people there were going to cheer Cena since he was the face.

They were booing him everywhere till his return at the Rumble a few years back. Not just Hammerstein. I have a friend who went to Royal Rumble 2006. Said the crowd booed the shit out of Cena just as bad as Hammerstein but it was edited out on the dvd. I have the dvd and he is right. Show's how sad it is that McMahon feels the need to protect Cena and not just admit people are bored to death of him.
 
A couple things: Cena became the best draw in the main event that the WWE's seen since Rock and Austin, in part, BECAUSE of his mixed reactions and how easy he was to book against alternating heels and faces. Sorry to say, but the WWE gains nothing from hiding the reaction Cena was getting and had been playing into that reaction MERE WEEKS before that Rumble in his feud with Kurt Angle.

Also, the section your friend was sitting in influenced what he heard. The notion that he has an accurate tale to tell about the reaction of the whole building is laughable. When you're at a show like that, the people around you normally drown out the majority. In short, you and your friend are talking absolute shit.
 
A couple things: Cena became the best draw in the main event that the WWE's seen since Rock and Austin, in part, BECAUSE of his mixed reactions and how easy he was to book against alternating heels and faces. Sorry to say, but the WWE gains nothing from hiding the reaction Cena was getting and had been playing into that reaction MERE WEEKS before that Rumble in his feud with Kurt Angle.

Also, the section your friend was sitting in influenced what he heard. The notion that he has an accurate tale to tell about the reaction of the whole building is laughable. When you're at a show like that, the people around you normally drown out the majority. In short, you and your friend are talking absolute shit.

All of that is a mute point in a kayfabe tournament. Drawing power who sells the most t-shirts none of that matters. What matters is pure wrestling ability. So by that token Cena should be out well before the semi finals.
 
All of that is a mute point in a kayfabe tournament. Drawing power who sells the most t-shirts none of that matters. What matters is pure wrestling ability. So by that token Cena should be out well before the semi finals.

First of all, it's moot* point. Moot*

Second of all, this was never billed as a kayfabe tournament. I'd say 99% of the people who are really involved in this tournament are going to go by kayfabe, but you can attribute a lot of random people popping in, voting for Cena because he's their favorite, and not saying a word about why he would be his opponent.

Thirdly, let's talk kayfabe. Cena has beaten HBK who has "better wrestling skills," as well as Angle, HHH, Randy Orton, and pretty much anyone he's come in contact to throughout the industry. So while "pure wrestling ability" does matter, I don't think anything counts as much as winning. There are plenty of wrestlers who have good wrestling ability who aren't even in this tourny because they never did squat compared to guys like Cena.

In short, Cena has a pretty damn good shot at getting far in this tournament. I don't think he'll win, but he's got a better shot than most.
 
Decent match but it was Extreme Rules and the crowd was booing the top babyface in the company maliciously. Thats never a good thing.
Oh come on, even if Cena wasn't getting booed regularly he was still going to get booed at ONS.

Those ECW fans don't go against their boys.
and who won the match?

Again Cena lost

I'm sensing a pattern
Well I guess we could ignore the times that Cena beat those guys, in Orton's case multiple times...
I saved myself trouble because the rest of those were shit. It seems to me Cena's best matches are the ones he loses Probably because people wanna see him lose so bad. It's just so easy to hate him. He should really just turn heel again already. No better heat than boring the piss out of the crowd.
Cena may get booed sometimes, but one thing that he has NEVER done is bore anybody.

People either love him or hate him, hardly anyone is indifferent to him.

And I'm new to this but someone told me that there's no set criteria for this tournament. So...
 
Oh come on, even if Cena wasn't getting booed regularly he was still going to get booed at ONS.

Those ECW fans don't go against their boys.

and that makes his abilty to draw heat that match less impressive, which is all i felt he contributed to it.

Well I guess we could ignore the times that Cena beat those guys, in Orton's case multiple times...

i agree with you there, wins and losses dont always have to do with how well a wrestler performs, and as much as i hate to admit it those loses didnt hurt cena at all, but it also goes against your argument of cenas domination because of his wins.

Cena may get booed sometimes, but one thing that he has NEVER done is bore anybody.

People either love him or hate him, hardly anyone is indifferent to him.

And I'm new to this but someone told me that there's no set criteria for this tournament. So...

thats not true at all he has bored me plenty of times. even though i hate him he has had many matches that i couldnt give two shits about. when a wrestlers matches are repetitive are predictable nomatter how you feel about the people in the match it can bore you.
 

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