Summerslam 2011 all over again.....

[The Dragon Saga]

Mania match sucked. I thought Brock looked sloppy and "off" watching it live. Wasn't shocked to find out about the concussion.

General consensus was it was the closest competition Punk/Taker had for MOTN. While that's not saying much because the matches weren't the best it still makes for a good match.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

I like him. I think he's a solid performer and all but not in my top ten or anything. So it isn't why I'm arguing this with you, what I'm saying is you have no idea why hes been added, you are trying to say "there is no reason" but there very well may be and most probably is a reason behind it. If we removed foresight from this then yeah, he shouldn't be included, but we aren't so there may be a huge reason why he has the role.

Let me clarify then.

I believe there is a reason he's involved (to get his storyline with Vince nobody wants to see progressed).

I believe there is no good reason for that to overlap and possibly overshadow Cena/Bryan, or Orton's cash-in.

HHH has a pattern of being involved when he's not needed.

 

[Coco]

General consensus was it was the closest competition Punk/Taker had for MOTN.

Which more or less speaks to the weak show Mania was.

Last year's SummerSlam bout was fine. I didn't care for it at first but it grew on me. The Mania match can fuck off.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

But Triple H will do something, that being, preventing Vince McMahon and/or Brad Maddox from interfering in the match and screwing Daniel Bryan out of the title, and springboarding into the feud between himself and Vince at Wrestlemania.

I'm not really sure what evidence points towards Triple H inserting himself into the match in an inappropriate way, turning heel, screwing Daniel Bryan, or taking the focus off of the main combatants and putting it on himself.

So best case scenario they just take focus off Cena vs. Bryan which is what this does. That's my issue, Triple H or Vince have no business being involved in this match. This match is a big deal and would be perfect if it was just Cena vs. Bryan. I don't even care who wins, I know its gonna be a tremendous match, I think it would bring Bryan to a higher level but it takes away from the match and Bryan if a portion of the match is taken to highlight a feud I've seen for the last 14 years. They just aren't needed in this match and their feud doesn't need to be in this match. Although this is speculation but this could very well be the match of the year, its huge on its own and I think HHH vs. Vince bogs it down. Sometimes the best thing to do is just have a simple 1 on 1 clean match, that would have been perfect.

Its personal opinion only but I was really looking forward to seeing a fresh, awesome match up between the top 2 guys in WWE with no shenanigans, Triple H guarantees that shenanigans will ensue, that's just how special guest refs work.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I believe there is a reason he's involved (to get his storyline with Vince nobody wants to see progressed).

I want to see it progressed, so again, wrong. In fact it's one of the more interesting things going on.

 

[Coco]

I fast forward through that shit every week. Rich people riding middle management isn't fun television. Neither is rich people having money fights.

 

[hatehabsforever]

So best case scenario they just take focus off Cena vs. Bryan which is what this does. That's my issue, Triple H or Vince have no business being involved in this match. This match is a big deal and would be perfect if it was just Cena vs. Bryan. I don't even care who wins, I know its gonna be a tremendous match, I think it would bring Bryan to a higher level but it takes away from the match and Bryan if a portion of the match is taken to highlight a feud I've seen for the last 14 years. They just aren't needed in this match and their feud doesn't need to be in this match. Although this is speculation but this could very well be the match of the year, its huge on its own and I think HHH vs. Vince bogs it down. Sometimes the best thing to do is just have a simple 1 on 1 clean match, that would have been perfect.

Its personal opinion only but I was really looking forward to seeing a fresh, awesome match up between the top 2 guys in WWE with no shenanigans, Triple H guarantees that shenanigans will ensue, that's just how special guest refs work.

Make no mistake about it, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. If it were up to me, neither Triple H nor Vince McMahon would be anywhere near this match up this Sunday. They are not needed there, and this program between Bryan and Cena is more than capable of standing on it's own two feet, and then some. All I am saying is, I don't think it will ruin the match or anything, although you're right, it has the potential to be an unnecessary distraction. While Triple H should not be there and is not needed there, I don't think he's going to use this opportunity to put himself over the two main guys in the match.

Personally, I want to see Daniel Bryan defeat John Cena cleanly and have his "Summerslam moment". And then I want to see Orton use his red briefcase to challenge Bryan, either that same night or the next night on RAW, and have Bryan defeat him too. Without any shenanigans from Triple H, Vince McMahon, Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley, or Brad Maddox.

 

[jmt225]

The match is 7 WEEKS in the making, not 7 YEARS. 7 Years ago Bryan was wresting in high school gyms after not being good enough at the time for WWE. 7 years ago John Cena was WWE Champion for an entire year. Don't tell me this is 7 years in the making, that's a load of shit. The 2 of them probably barely knew each other (despite the Velocity match) back then.

I agree I'd rather it be without a special ref, but I don't at all mind the idea that they are incorporating the McMahon feud, which needs PPV exposure. Storyline wise, it makes perfect sense.

Bryan and Cena have been compared to one another on the internet for 7 years. That's a fact. There's a reason why this entire feud has been built around the same arguments people were having on the internet 7 years ago. Bryan hasn't talked about being a "real wrestler" since his days on NXT, why all of the sudden is he now bringing it up when his character has been a comedic one the past 2 years? I'll tell you why... because it's the same argument people have been having on the internet for 7 years, thus making the match 7 years in the making.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I fast forward through that shit every week. Rich people riding middle management isn't fun television. Neither is rich people having money fights.

Ditto. Plus Stephanie McMahon is just awful.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Only saw Stormtrooper's post in that quotation. The ignorance made me laugh, I'll give it that.

Seven years ago Bryan was pretty much recognized as the best wrestler in the world. As far as in-ring work, not much has changed to be honest, main difference is seven years ago there wasn't much competition for the slogan, now there are a good fifteen candidates. He couldn't be signed by WWE between 2005 and 2008 even if they wanted him because he had contractual agreements in Japan. And when that ended he was the first ever contracted ROH wrestler when he signed a one year deal.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Seven years ago Bryan was pretty much recognized as the best wrestler in the world

Complete horseshit.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Complete horseshit.

Nope, it's not. Believe it or not, outside WWE and TNA, there is this entire other country called Japan full of wrestling companies. And in America there were all these small promotions called independent wrestling companies. And just because you can't put the effort into watching it does not devalue the going ons in these promotions.

And from 2005 onward Bryan Danielson dominated the 2000's as a wrestler. He might not have been able to rhyme stupid words together or cover himself in fake tan and baby oil and no, he didn't wrestle in-front of 20,000 people every morning, afternoon and night, but what he did in a ring bettered anything anyone else was doing anywhere else.

There are good reasons so many were high on him years before he ever signed a WWE deal.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Nope, it's not. Believe it or not, outside WWE and TNA, there is this entire other country called Japan full of wrestling companies. And in America there were all these small promotions called independent wrestling companies. And just because you can't put the effort into watching it does not devalue the going ons in these promotions.

And from 2005 onward Bryan Danielson dominated the 2000's as a wrestler. He might not have been able to rhyme stupid words together or cover himself in fake tan and baby oil and no, he didn't wrestle in-front of 20,000 people every morning, afternoon and night, but what he did in a ring bettered anything anyone else was doing anywhere else.

There are good reasons so many were high on him years before he ever signed a WWE deal.

And what does any of that have to do with what I said? Nothing. You may think he was the best, but he was not recognized as the best wrestler in the world because most people didn't have any fucking idea who he was. You really need to get outside of your bubble.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

And what does any of that have to do with what I said? Nothing. You may think he was the best, but he was not recognized as the best wrestler in the world because most people didn't have any fucking idea who he was. You really need to get outside of your bubble.

Actually, most people on the Internet knew who he was. Casuals may not but casuals don't even know there are boards on the net where people like us actually discuss wrestling. They don't even know what a dirt sheet is.

And between 2006 to 2010, Wrestling Observer Most Outstanding Wrestler, Bryan Danielson. Best technical wrestler every year since 2005, Bryan Danielson. But I guess their opinion doesn't count either or anyones who knows Bryan killed it every match for the better part of six years.

And you'll find that I'm very much outside the bubble, it is you locked away inside.

 

[jmt225]

Complete horseshit.

On the internet he was, and since the internet is the only place wrestling fans can share their opinions (there hasn't been any mainstream pro wrestling talk shows), it's a fair statement.

The internet today is way more WWE friendly than it was in 2006. But back in 2006, it would have been extremely tough for you to find a forum you could join where the majority opinion wasn't that Bryan was the best wrestler in the World.

Just to give you a quick example of what I mean, the original argument that brought Slyfox to the Wrestlezone...

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=11542

That thread is a clear indication of how the IWC was back then. It started to change around 2008/2009 and now it's astonishingly different than it was. Better or worse... it simply evolved.

Now, of course you can fire back with, just because it was on the internet doesn't make it so, but again man... the internet is the only place a wrestling fan can share his opinions, so if the majority of the internet is saying one thing, then it's hard to argue that it's not the widely recognized opinion, especially when we're having this discussion on the internet. You can say WWE fans didn't give a fuck about Bryan or know who he was back when he was in ROH, and you'd be right, but the fact is... back then most WWE fans didn't voice themselves on the internet, so their opinions didn't matter since no one heard them, if you get what I mean. It's the old adage, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

 

[Miko]

How the fuck am I supposed to remember what happened at SummerSlam 2011?

Actually, most people on the Internet knew who he was. Casuals may not but casuals don't even know there are boards on the net where people like us actually discuss wrestling. They don't even know what a dirt sheet is.

How I envy them.

 

[Miko]

On the internet he was, and since the internet is the only place wrestling fans can share their opinions (there hasn't been any mainstream pro wrestling talk shows), it's a fair statement.

The internet today is way more WWE friendly than it was in 2006. But back in 2006, it would have been extremely tough for you to find a forum you could join where the majority opinion wasn't that Bryan was the best wrestler in the World.

Just to give you a quick example of what I mean, the original argument that brought Slyfox to the Wrestlezone...

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=11542

That thread is a clear indication of how the IWC was back then. It started to change around 2008/2009 and now it's astonishingly different than it was. Better or worse... it simply evolved.

Now, of course you can fire back with, just because it was on the internet doesn't make it so, but again man... the internet is the only place a wrestling fan can share his opinions, so if the majority of the internet is saying one thing, then it's hard to argue that it's not the widely recognized opinion, especially when we're having this discussion on the internet. You can say WWE fans didn't give a fuck about Bryan or know who he was back when he was in ROH, and you'd be right, but the fact is... back then most WWE fans didn't voice themselves on the internet, so their opinions didn't matter since no one heard them, if you get what I mean. It's the old adage, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

Yeah, it goes "CRRAAAAAACCCKKKK! *birds going mental as they fly away* WWHHHOOOOOOOMMMMPPPPHHHH! *small rodents scurrying away*"

 

[Nate DaMac]

Actually, most people on the Internet knew who he was.

Precisely my point. These days the IWC makes up a small portion of the whole audience, it was even less 7 years ago.

Casuals may not but casuals don't even know there are boards on the net where people like us actually discuss wrestling. They don't even know what a dirt sheet is.

The fuck does that have to do with anything?

And between 2006 to 2010, Wrestling Observer Most Outstanding Wrestler, Bryan Danielson. Best technical wrestler every year since 2005, Bryan Danielson. But I guess their opinion doesn't count either or anyones who knows Bryan killed it every match for the better part of six years.

How does a person say shit like this and then say:

And you'll find that I'm very much outside the bubble, it is you locked away inside.

Without feeling like a complete tool?

 

[Nate DaMac]

On the internet he was, and since the internet is the only place wrestling fans can share their opinions (there hasn't been any mainstream pro wrestling talk shows), it's a fair statement.

The internet today is way more WWE friendly than it was in 2006. But back in 2006, it would have been extremely tough for you to find a forum you could join where the majority opinion wasn't that Bryan was the best wrestler in the World.

Just to give you a quick example of what I mean, the original argument that brought Slyfox to the Wrestlezone...

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=11542

That thread is a clear indication of how the IWC was back then. It started to change around 2008/2009 and now it's astonishingly different than it was. Better or worse... it simply evolved.

Now, of course you can fire back with, just because it was on the internet doesn't make it so, but again man... the internet is the only place a wrestling fan can share his opinions, so if the majority of the internet is saying one thing, then it's hard to argue that it's not the widely recognized opinion, especially when we're having this discussion on the internet. You can say WWE fans didn't give a fuck about Bryan or know who he was back when he was in ROH, and you'd be right, but the fact is... back then most WWE fans didn't voice themselves on the internet, so their opinions didn't matter since no one heard them, if you get what I mean. It's the old adage, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

You're way cooler when you're not berating me.

You make valid points, but when you read that thread and see how one intelligent person can mop the floor with several "internet wrestling experts" that rate Daniel Bryan higher than Cena, I feel even more validated in my opinions of where DB was at 7 years ago.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Precisely my point. These days the IWC makes up a small portion of the whole audience, it was even less 7 years ago.

I was on forums seven years ago, there were still a lot of people. I believe this place was even active when I started posting on other forums. And back then the general consensus was Bryan Danielson > everyone.

The fuck does that have to do with anything?

Because the majority of WWE's audience are casual viewers, I was detailing my point.

Without feeling like a complete tool?

Yeah, screw me for valuing trusted opinions, amirite?

How does a person write off anything someone did just because you were too lazy to see it? Because you didn't care to see it? Because you see something wrong in it? Because it's not on television and isn't right in front of you, because God forbid you have to go buy a fucking DVD and watch wrestling to a higher standard than fourteen moves mixed in with forty seconds restholds as is normal in WWE.

You said I'm in a bubble. I'm well and truly not. I keep up with every promotion, WWE to NJPW, TNA to ROH, I am open minded. You are not. You are close minded. That is your choice, I couldn't give two squirts a piss, but when it comes to "who was the best wrestler seven years ago" and I tell you, as a fact, and not an opinion it was Bryan Danielson, don't reply "complete horseshit" because it doesn't sit with your close minded opinion on the matter I assume you know little about.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I was on forums seven years ago, there were still a lot of people. I believe this place was even active when I started posting on other forums. And back then the general consensus was Bryan Danielson > everyone.



Because the majority of WWE's audience are casual viewers, I was detailing my point.



Yeah, screw me for valuing trusted opinions, amirite?

How does a person write off anything someone did just because you were too lazy to see it? Because you didn't care to see it? Because you see something wrong in it? Because it's not on television and isn't right in front of you, because God forbid you have to go buy a fucking DVD and watch wrestling to a higher standard than fourteen moves mixed in with forty seconds restholds as is normal in WWE.

You said I'm in a bubble. I'm well and truly not. I keep up with every promotion, WWE to NJPW, TNA to ROH, I am open minded. You are not. You are close minded. That is your choice, I couldn't give two squirts a piss, but when it comes to "who was the best wrestler seven years ago" and I tell you, as a fact, and not an opinion it was Bryan Danielson, don't reply "complete horseshit" because it doesn't sit with your close minded opinion on the matter I assume you know little about.

Fucking Christ, man. Where, in this thread, have you seen me voice any opinions on Indy/Japanese promotions? Where have I ever insulted his work prior to being in the WWE? Matter of fact, go dig through the archives and find one single mention of Bryan in any of my posts prior to his WWE debut. You won't find one.

I'm not arguing the quality of his work, I'm arguing math. JMT had an actual retort to what I said, you just want on an insane Indy defense rant toward someone who said nothing about the quality of said promotions.

Get a fucking grip.

 

[hatehabsforever]

There's absolutely no way that seven years ago, Bryan Danielson was "pretty much recognized" as the best wrestler in the world. That's not to say he wasn't, in fact he very well may have been the best professional wrestler there was at that point of time. But to suggest he was universally recognized as such is simply not true. I've been watching wrestling for a long time and prior to entering the world of Wrestlezone, I had never even heard of him. Most of my buddies were avid wrestling fans (most of them no longer are) and I can guarantee you, they would have had no idea who Bryan Danielson was either. He may well have been the best professional wrestler in the world at that point but outside of pockets of niche audiences, the truth of the matter is, to be universally recognized as being the best in the world, you have to display your talents in WWE.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

But to suggest he was universally recognized as such is simply not true.

Nobody will ever be universally recognized as the best anything. You never know who is out there doing what, we have a medium to go off and that is the Internet, other mediums and publications also influence our views, and in 2007 the view was Bryan Danielson is the best wrestler in the world. Everywhere he went from Japan to Mexico to the high school gym to the bingo hall to the Hammerstein Ballroom, he killed it.

to be universally recognized as being the best in the world, you have to display your talents in WWE.

No. No you do not.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Couple of months ago I asked KB on his thread why he doesnt like HHH that much. He said that he think HHH hogs too much spotlight when there is no need for it. This is another one of those times...

I mean, there is absolutely no need for special guest referee in here. "Cena-Bryan", Orton teases cashes in and do it or dont do it and thats it. No need for all this Mcmahon drama, no need for HHH to be inserted there. It adds whole new perspective which could take too much from Cena-Bryan fight and add to "which McMahons screwing which" and stuff. Thats why I dont like it that much. We would see how it goes though. It might turn out just fine...

 

[Coco]

Casuals may not but casuals don't even know there are boards on the net where people like us actually discuss wrestling.

Between this and you professing a love for guys who can actually wrestle, I'm onto you.