Stop using personal issues to defend the John Cena character

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

1) I notice that it's only Cena fanboys who use the "if you don't like it, stop watching" nonsense. Whenever some muscle mark goes on about how Bryan is too small, and doesn't have the right look, nobody ever tells him to stop watching WWE since he doesn't like one of the top guys in the company.

2) If you are an adult male who likes the John Cena CHARACTER, you are a goofball. That simple. I can respect the guy for doing good things for kids, and for being a workhorse, and for carrying the ball for 10 years, but his overgrown Boy Scout character doesn't fly with me. "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect", "Rise above Hate", "Never Give Up", all that shit is done for the kids. I get that. What I don't get is a grown man buying into that schtick and being pissed that people would actually chant "Cena Sucks".

 

[DarksideEric]

1) I notice that it's only Cena fanboys who use the "if you don't like it, stop watching" nonsense. Whenever some muscle mark goes on about how Bryan is too small, and doesn't have the right look, nobody ever tells him to stop watching WWE since he doesn't like one of the top guys in the company.

2) If you are an adult male who likes the John Cena CHARACTER, you are a goofball. That simple. I can respect the guy for doing good things for kids, and for being a workhorse, and for carrying the ball for 10 years, but his overgrown Boy Scout character doesn't fly with me. "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect", "Rise above Hate", "Never Give Up", all that shit is done for the kids. I get that. What I don't get is a grown man buying into that schtick and being pissed that people would actually chant "Cena Sucks".

Oh the irony.

It's funny when people pull the "it's only X fanboys" card when they're displaying many characteristics of the opposing spectrum fanboy.

If you don't like something, stop participating in or spectating it. That's simple and sound logic.

"Grown men can't like Cena or they're dumb," is a pithy little grasp at the "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE" card.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Oh the irony.

It's funny when people pull the "it's only X fanboys" card when they're displaying many characteristics of the opposing spectrum fanboy.

If you don't like something, stop participating in or spectating it. That's simple and sound logic.

"Grown men can't like Cena or they're dumb," is a pithy little grasp at the "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE" card.

John Cena is one man on the roster. If someone doesn't like him, they shouldn't watch WWE? That's quite a reach. It doesn't matter who it is, not every wrestler is going to appeal to everyone. If someone doesn't like Daniel Bryan, thats their prerogative. I would never tell them they should either "like" him, or stop watching the show. I don't accept that rationale from anyone, regardless of who the wrestler being discussed is.

Its just an observation, that it seems to be Cena apologists who use that line more than others. I shouldn't have generalized and said its ONLY Cena fans who do this. I'll give you that.

You're free to like whoever you want to like, and I'm free to call you a goofball for liking a character who is marketed towards 8 year old boys.

 

[Dudeluv]

Why do people cite this as a reason when many, many, many wrestlers in history have a set of signature moves they do? I don't understand this way of thinking as a means against wrestlers, not just Cena.

it is true that lots or wrestlers have this...
but the quality in which cena performs his moves is terrible...he doesnt even swag his shoulders for his 5 knuckle shuffle anymore lol...

 

[DarksideEric]

John Cena is one man on the roster. If someone doesn't like him, they shouldn't watch WWE?

There's this thing called fast forward, change channels, etc. I don't care for the Divas matches because they're boring, so I ignore them. How hard is that logic? If you don't like John Cena then stop being around for his time on screen.

Its just an observation, that it seems to be Cena apologists who use that line more than others. I shouldn't have generalized and said its ONLY Cena fans who do this. I'll give you that.

It's also an observation that the people who hate/dislike Cena are just as much "fanboy" in the anti-sense as the pro-Cena "fanboys." You both make stupid remarks like the following:

I'm free to call you a goofball for liking a character who is marketed towards 8 year old boys.

Why is it stupid? Because as I said, you've reduced any form of discussion down to the childlike "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!" They're only a "goofball" because of that exact reason.

 

[Arsenal]

It's really pathetic so see the Cena marks defend his boring, stale, 2 dimensional character with the fact that he sells so much merch and makes so much money for the WWE. Are you on the WWE payroll? Why the hell do you care? Get a life.

He's not entertaining and hasn't been since his thuganomics persona. Even worse, that was the persona that got him over, then he completely abandoned it to become this boyscout Superman corporate puppet. That's not what people liked about him and that's not what got him over.

Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Stone Cold didn't do a complete 180 on their personas once they became the face of the company, they were basically the same. Cena on the other hand got completely changed, which is the biggest reason why the crowd turned on him all those years ago.

 

[laodaron]

The crowd hasn't turned on him, hipster smarks turned on him. The crowd still fucking loves him unless the WWE is in some marky hostile city.

 

[Arsenal]

Uh... what?

Hogan didn't do a 180 in his career?

Get a clue. I'm talking about 1984 Hulk Hogan when he became the face of the WWF. He was basically the same guy before and after he won the title. He didn't use one persona to get over and then completely change into something else once he became the #1 guy.

 

[DarksideEric]

Get a clue. I'm talking about 1984 Hulk Hogan when he became the face of the WWF. He was basically the same guy before and after he won the title. He didn't use one persona to get over and then completely change into something else once he became the #1 guy.

Get a clue.

You're completely ignoring the fact that you're cherry picking to try and prove your point.

Also Hogan was a heel in WWF prior to 1984.

 

[Dudeluv]

The crowd hasn't turned on him, hipster smarks turned on him. The crowd still fucking loves him unless the WWE is in some marky hostile city.

Lol hipster marks...
None of it has to do with being any of what you said. Some hate him. And some like him. I don't know if the actual ratio is 50/50 but on most nights that's what it seems like with the cheers and jeers.

But when have you ever seen the face of the WWF/WWE get a mixed reaction like that?? Not everyone that boos that guy is a "mark"....there's valid reasons

 

[Septumus]

But when have you ever seen the face of the WWF/WWE get a mixed reaction like that??

Hogan got boo'd by several people in the crowds, especially later in his run in WWF; Micheals and Hart split the crowd and got heavy boos in many places; Austin and Rock split the crowd once more later on, but even in their runs without the other a sizable portion of the crowds weren't for them.

So yeah, quite often you have seen the Face(s) of the WWF/E get mixed reactions like that.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

The crowd hasn't turned on him, hipster smarks turned on him. The crowd still fucking loves him unless the WWE is in some marky hostile city.

Hipsters don't watch wrestling. Wrestling isn't "cool" in their world. Hardly anything is. And they don't do, wear, listen to, anything that isn't "cool" in their little circle. Stop using the term hipster on here, you sound like a moron.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

It's really pathetic so see the Cena marks defend his boring, stale, 2 dimensional character with the fact that he sells so much merch and makes so much money for the WWE. Are you on the WWE payroll? Why the hell do you care? Get a life.

What did you think of the promo he cut before SummerSlam? How about the one before TLC? What characters are out there that are not 2 dimensions? Who is changing things up so much that they are not stale and how?

He's not entertaining and hasn't been since his thuganomics persona. Even worse, that was the persona that got him over, then he completely abandoned it to become this boyscout Superman corporate puppet. That's not what people liked about him and that's not what got him over.

Isn't it conceivable that the Thugonomics character would get stale and boring? How was that character not 2 dimensional?

Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Stone Cold didn't do a complete 180 on their personas once they became the face of the company, they were basically the same. Cena on the other hand got completely changed, which is the biggest reason why the crowd turned on him all those years ago.

I'm confused. I think it's fair to say he is far more the face of the company today than at the tail end of Thugonomics. You don't like him and want him to change but you seem in this paragraph to take issue with characters changing when they are the face of the company.

I guess it makes sense to not enjoy Cena's character. I just fail to see how it's fair to just pick on his "character" when I don't exactly see other characters blowing people away with their promos and storylines. Are Punk, Bryan, Reigns, Ziggler, Wyatt, and Cesaro really such interesting and captivating characters?

 

[Dudeluv]

Hogan got boo'd by several people in the crowds, especially later in his run in WWF; Micheals and Hart split the crowd and got heavy boos in many places; Austin and Rock split the crowd once more later on, but even in their runs without the other a sizable portion of the crowds weren't for them.

So yeah, quite often you have seen the Face(s) of the WWF/E get mixed reactions like that.

I didn't mean they never did..
But it was never on a nightly basis..and not as strong as cena.
And when they felt a reaction as that, you would notice a heel change down the road.
I just don't see how cena is so different as to not becoming one.
It's getting to stale and a portion of the fans see that

 

[JohnJohnson]

I am certainly not a hipster by any stretch of the imagination. Half the crowd boos him and half the IWC says they don't like him, so I don't see why it comes to some of you as a shock when they say they don't like Cena. I don't have to like him. If I said I don't like Jack Swagger or Christian, people wouldn't mind. But as soon as I say I don't like John Cena, a band of his enthusiasts come rushing in to explain to me why I should like him and why they believe I don't like him. It always has to be some alterior purpose doesn't it. I can't just not like the wrestler, surely I must be hating on him just to fit in or be a hipster or feel smart or what have you.

As far as the 5 moves of doom, I don't mind wrestlers having signature moves. I don't really like it when they have to all hit before a match can even consider being finished. An example would be Sheamus and his moves. I can't buy into any near falls, because I know if he hasn't done his chest pound and his white noise that the match will not end yet. What I really hate is a 5 moves of doom sequence. Orton and Cena are the worst with this. When Orton started doing his 2x clothesline, the opponent swings and he ducks which somehow sends the opponent into the ropes, powerslam which makes them roll to the apron, and DDT sequence, I stopped being a fan of his. I got tired of it. I loved the DDT at first when it would just happen in the match and I liked when he would use his European uppercuts, drop kicks, his signature back breaker and stuff like that. Rey Mysterio has his sequence of the same series of moves, especially coming in off a hot tag. I hate it. I cringe. I used to be a big fan of Rey.

Cena is a character that I didn't like from the very first time I saw him on TV. I just saw a corny wannabe with a chain and pad lock. I was not amused or entertained. I don't like wannabe thugs and I don't like boyscout superheros. He went from one to the other.

 

[Dream]

John Cena is boring. Flat out. Nothing he does interests me. I don't hate him - why would I? I don't know him. I just find him insanely boring and repetitive, everything from his promos to his ring work. He lacks any sort of charisma and intensity. He is flat out boring. Part of this is booking, part of this is his personality.

I skip or tune out any and every time he is on the TV. The same holds true for Sheamus.

 

[Straightfromthehart]

Having not watched the product in so many years and returning to the viewing public this year (saw an add for mitb which had the return of rvd, ecw nostalgia drew me in, and it was free here in the uk), I think I'm seeing cena in a different way to the regular viewers over the years. Maybe it's because I haven't been forced fed the guy over the last decade, I mean he's won the title what 11 times? I remember bret hart winning it 5 times over the span of a what 20 year wwf career was unbelievable but 11 title reigns?

I think this is the main reason for the dislike. What I've seen in cena since I've became watching is probably the best mic guy buy a long way. He deals with the crowd brilliantly, just look at the promo before the ladder match with orton, that was pure brilliant, he actually brought some hype to a match people were bored with before it had begun. Look at the way he hyped the arena. That isn't an easy thing to do and he does it quite a bit, look at his segment on raw in Chicago it was very well done and the guy didn't even have to wrestle.

I agree his in ring stuff is fairly predictable, but then who isn't in the wwe at the moment, and to be fair his matches are always pretty entertaining.

I honestly think it's cena overload for most. But from someone who's just started watching his stuff I can see why he's the top company guy.

 

[laodaron]

If your reason for not liking Cena is his "lack of charisma" or "predictability," then you're just a lying asshole, because he's literally the opposite of both with zero question either way. If you don't like him because you don't like what's popular, then that's fine, own that truth. But don't make up shit that can't be possibly true, because it just shows the general misunderstanding of the entire industry of professional wrestling.

 

[L@RISANO]

Having not watched the product in so many years and returning to the viewing public this year (saw an add for mitb which had the return of rvd, ecw nostalgia drew me in, and it was free here in the uk), I think I'm seeing cena in a different way to the regular viewers over the years. Maybe it's because I haven't been forced fed the guy over the last decade, I mean he's won the title what 11 times? I remember bret hart winning it 5 times over the span of a what 20 year wwf career was unbelievable but 11 title reigns?

I think this is the main reason for the dislike. What I've seen in cena since I've became watching is probably the best mic guy buy a long way. He deals with the crowd brilliantly, just look at the promo before the ladder match with orton, that was pure brilliant, he actually brought some hype to a match people were bored with before it had begun. Look at the way he hyped the arena. That isn't an easy thing to do and he does it quite a bit, look at his segment on raw in Chicago it was very well done and the guy didn't even have to wrestle.

I agree his in ring stuff is fairly predictable, but then who isn't in the wwe at the moment, and to be fair his matches are always pretty entertaining.

I honestly think it's cena overload for most. But from someone who's just started watching his stuff I can see why he's the top company guy.

This is very similar to how I feel about John Cena. I am still a huge fan of his, based on his entire career and his abilities in terms of putting on a great match and his promos and working the crowd which I think is top notch(lMO).

His Rap gimmick is what got him over with the crowd, but it is obvious that such a gimmick would not have been suitable for a guy the company wants to be its Face and Main Superstar and also the fact that it was changed to PG.

Eventually, like DC's Superman, SuperCena would have gotten old and repetitive to most, especially the older folks. Now it has gotten to the point that;
There are pure Haters,

there are those who aren't excited by John Cena but accept that he is good at what he does and would show that appreciation in the off chance that he does something different and more interesting than normal,

then there are the Kids who obviously love the Big Strong Unbeatable Overcoming all the Odds Superhero.

From a personal point of view; I have gotten to a point where I am in the second group. I appreciate that John Cena is a Top Notch Superstar in both Promos and In-Ring work, his character just seems boring to the point, where I don't really root for him to win his feuds any longer.

Take for instance, since I restarted following and watching RAW;

I missed the feud with Daniel Bryan and from watching clips of that feud, I think it probably was times more interesting for John Cena than any he has done since then(Post-injury).

The Face vs Face stuff(Daniel Bryan vs John Cena,the Rock vs John Cena) is something that would interest me with regards to John Cena as it seems to bring more out of him in terms of proving himself to the audience, as he usually winds up as the defacto heel in such feuds due to his polarisation.

Thereafter, he had a Unification Setup feud with Alberto Del Rio,
then went onto Randy Orton which lasted through 3 PPVs. 1 PPV between the two was too much, and so, many fans like those in group 2(including myself) and 3 above were not interested in the least bit.

Presently, he is in the midst of a programme with Up and Coming Heel, Bray Wyatt and the Wyatt family.
For a programme that has been in the works since the Royal Rumble PPV, it hasn't even taken off fully as yet given that it will only generate full interest through Storyline.

However, in such a feud, from Cena's POV, hasn't he already been there, done that? Remember the Nexus? This feud, lMO, can only benefit Bray Wyatt, and I hope it results in Bray going over and establishing himself as the Top Heel in the WWE.

As for Cena, I think the only chances we have of seeing a different more edgy type/full heel is if they do Face vs Face feuds involving him, and he has to prove himself much more than just the generic,boring stuff he brings in his SuperCena vs SuperVillain feuds(which is the way the current Feud with Bray Wyatt has gone as well,unfortunately).

 

[Rich the UK WWE Fan 2k14]

All you Cena bashers need to STFU and get a grip, Cena bashing is SO 2007.

Like it or not, he is pretty much THE face of WWE, more so than the likes of Daniel Bryan and/or Randy Orton will ever be IMO.

 

[Dream]

If your reason for not liking Cena is his "lack of charisma" or "predictability," then you're just a lying asshole, because he's literally the opposite of both with zero question either way. If you don't like him because you don't like what's popular, then that's fine, own that truth. But don't make up shit that can't be possibly true, because it just shows the general misunderstanding of the entire industry of professional wrestling.

I really do not think you know what the word charisma or predictability means. John Cena has absolutely no charisma. It's the same promo over and over again. He also does nothing out of the norm on a weekly basis. If you differ, show me some examples......maybe I'm missing something?

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

All you Cena bashers need to STFU and get a grip, Cena bashing is SO 2007.

He's the same guy now he that he was in 2007. Just in a different color t-shirt, baseball hat, and wrist bands. So if someone didn't like him then, why would they like him now?

Your "Cena bashing is SO 2007" comment is based on this absurd fallacy that people don't like him because they think it is "cool" to not like him.

 

[laodaron]

He's the same guy now he that he was in 2007. Just in a different color t-shirt, baseball hat, and wrist bands. So if someone didn't like him then, why would they like him now?

Your "Cena bashing is SO 2007" comment is based on this absurd fallacy that people don't like him because they think it is "cool" to not like him.

First of all, that's not what a fallacy is. A fallacy is an illogical method of having a debate or discussion. A FALSEHOOD or FALSITY is probably what you're looking for.

Second of all, that's literally the only reason that there is to not like Cena...

CM Punk has his 5 moves of doom. Daniel Bryan has his 5 moves of doom. John Cena has his five moves of doom. It's nothing but a cop out to talk about Cena's lack of moves, and not talk about DB and CM Punk's lack of moves. John Cena is considered by just about everyone actually IN the business to be one of the best wrestlers in the world. Watch a shoot interview about him. He a consummate professional.

John Cena has more personality on the mic than just about everyone in WWE. He's as charismatic as a WWE pro-wrestler can be. He's better than DB and Punk once again on the mic, UNLESS Punk has been given permission to "drop a pipebomb" and throw out a worked shoot. DB is nothing but a smiling loon in promos.

There really is no one in WWE better than John Cena, and there hasn't been in the better part of a decade. Stone Cold Steve Austin said as much on the podcast a few weeks ago.

There is only one possible reason that is real and quantifiable for not liking John Cena. That reason is that your internet buddies also don't like him because he's the top guy in the WWE.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

First of all, that's not what a fallacy is. A fallacy is an illogical method of having a debate or discussion. A FALSEHOOD or FALSITY is probably what you're looking for.

Second of all, that's literally the only reason that there is to not like Cena...

CM Punk has his 5 moves of doom. Daniel Bryan has his 5 moves of doom. John Cena has his five moves of doom. It's nothing but a cop out to talk about Cena's lack of moves, and not talk about DB and CM Punk's lack of moves. John Cena is considered by just about everyone actually IN the business to be one of the best wrestlers in the world. Watch a shoot interview about him. He a consummate professional.

John Cena has more personality on the mic than just about everyone in WWE. He's as charismatic as a WWE pro-wrestler can be. He's better than DB and Punk once again on the mic, UNLESS Punk has been given permission to "drop a pipebomb" and throw out a worked shoot. DB is nothing but a smiling loon in promos.

There really is no one in WWE better than John Cena, and there hasn't been in the better part of a decade. Stone Cold Steve Austin said as much on the podcast a few weeks ago.

There is only one possible reason that is real and quantifiable for not liking John Cena. That reason is that your internet buddies also don't like him because he's the top guy in the WWE.

Fallacy: a mistaken belief, esp. one based on unsound argument.

That is EXACTLY what the statement "people only dislike Cena because it is 'cool' to do so" is. A mistaken belief, based on an unsound argument.

Thats not "literally the only reason" to not like Cena, this thread is filled with all the reasons. Just accept the fact that people can have a different opinion than you about a fictional wrestling character.

 

[L@RISANO]

CM Punk has his 5 moves of doom. Daniel Bryan has his 5 moves of doom. John Cena has his five moves of doom. It's nothing but a cop out to talk about Cena's lack of moves, and not talk about DB and CM Punk's lack of moves. John Cena is considered by just about everyone actually IN the business to be one of the best wrestlers in the world. Watch a shoot interview about him. He a consummate professional.

John Cena has more personality on the mic than just about everyone in WWE. He's as charismatic as a WWE pro-wrestler can be. He's better than DB and Punk once again on the mic, UNLESS Punk has been given permission to "drop a pipebomb" and throw out a worked shoot. DB is nothing but a smiling loon in promos.

There really is no one in WWE better than John Cena, and there hasn't been in the better part of a decade. Stone Cold Steve Austin said as much on the podcast a few weeks ago.

I agree with this part of your comment.

People saying that John Cena has "NO" Charisma are totally off and do not understand what Charisma is. From the beginning and even now, John Cena Knows how to connect with his audience(Lovers or Haters) better than any other Superstar currently on the WWE Roster.

He might not be the most Popular Babyface, but even in Chicago, I thought he worked the crowd well enough in terms of the fact that Chicago is generally hostile towards him, yet he knew how to respond in such a situation. Even at the Royal Rumble in his match with Randy Orton, he was able to improvise well enough to the crowd's chants(Remember when he tried the Walls of Jericho after the Y2J chants?).

As for 5 moves, even Stone Cold and the Rock had their own versions of 5 Move of Doom, so in that regard, I agree with you.
When Cena actually is a part of a great match, he does mix it up, as do the other Superstars.
On Free TV, in normal matches, obviously, the 5 moves of doom concept is understood(even Stone Cold alleged in his Interview with Cena on the Podcast, that he tells Cena to take it easy at certain times, like Free TV and such, but John Cena always wants to give his best for the crowd).

There is only one possible reason that is real and quantifiable for not liking John Cena. That reason is that your internet buddies also don't like him because he's the top guy in the WWE.

This, I can't agree with.

As I said in an above post. I am and have been a John Cena fan since he made his debut vs Kurt Angle. I absolutely loved the RAP Gimmick as well.
However, I have noticed that John Cena in his Storyline Promos especially becomes repetitive at times. When he has to improvise, or prove himself to a hostile crowd who are booing more than cheering, then that is when he shows how good he can be.

Do I hate John Cena at all? Nope.

Do I get bored with John Cena at times Promo-Wise? Yes I do.

Do I love his 5 Moves of Doom? Nope.
But every Top Star has his own "Moves of Doom", some have more, some have less. I also understand why they have such move sets also. However, for anyone to say that Cena can't wrestle and ONLY uses 5 Moves, that is totally false and he himself has proven that notion to be false.

As Stone Cold also said sometime late last year, put John Cena with another great performer, and that is when he proves how good he is.
Hence, I think that Feuds with fellow faces as he had vs Daniel Bryan around SummerSlam 2013, are the kind of feuds that John Cena should be put in more often in the future.
Enough of him being the SuperHero that saves the day. That stuff has to be put to a minimum,lMO.