Sin Cara.... Future great?

[hollowpoint]

People botch. Perhaps Riley was positioned wrong. You guys go ahead and complain about Sin Cara botching but most of us and most of the roster wouldn't even dare TRY doing this shit. There will be mistakes and he has an off the wall style.

And I don't care what ANYBODY says about mic skills. They may get you further but RING SKILLS are more important to me. Why? If I'm going to buy a PPV, I want a good main event. I'll take Sin Cara vs. Rey over Cena vs. Miz even though I love Miz. But why? Sin Cara/Rey will be a damn good match but Cena/Miz will just suck. That's how I look at it. And what bothers me a great deal is how some people on here accuse others of not supporting the business when many of us are willing to do so and then we don't matter because we're not the target audience.


I for one will do everything in my power to get Sin Cara bumped up. I would love a mask.

Of course there will be mistakes, but it shouldn't happen EVERYTIME we see him! You putting Sin Cara vs Rey Mysterio in the main event would definitely work(Pause for effect) if you're in Mexico. The masses in America don't like the lucha libre style and even though I am not a huge fan of it, I do appreciate it and realize that it has it's place in the WWE. Just not as the main attraction. The whole point I'm trying to make is, whatever your style is, perfect it and don't turn it into a half ass show with botched spots. I'd rather see a perfectly executed suplex over a botched moonsault anyday.

 

[Mark0820]

I can't see him doing anything long term if he can't speak English. He doesn't have a manager to get him over verbally and without being able to speak the language he can't carry any feuds. On top of that he's a botch machine. He botched the head scissors/arm drag take down on Riley and the Miz. He botched a moonsault. You put him in a match with your two top guys right now and he fell flat. But at least he didn't screw up his entrance this time. :LOL:

 

[The Perfect Max]

He seems like the guy who will never go heel because he is so likeable and it's impossible to boo him when he does his moves as people do with Cena. Because they're so unique and amazing, people lose concertration about who it is and focus on what's happening.

I have a feeling next week on the Draft, he will be one of the televised draft picks and when he goes to SmackDown, he will feud with Rey Mysterio. Obviously, Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio hasn't finished yet, but, when it does, Sin Cara will be ready. I don't think either of them will turn heel but one could turn tweener for a while.

I don't think, however, he will be a World Heavyweight Champion. IC Champion, yes! US Champion, yes! This is the time where WWE could bring back the Cruiserweight Division and the Cruiserweight Championship of the World. He has a great future, but not a World HEAVYWEIGHT Championship.

 

[darbare]

like others have said I think Sin Cara is limited. I say put him with a manager. He could possibly be a heel, so why not turn him, hes still fairly new. What if they brought back Armando Estrada to be his manager, that could work. They could pretend like Cara is too good for the American fans, and that he doesnt have to talk, and instead has Armando talk for him

 

[FightOwensFight]

All this talk of botching moves. With the style Sin Cara uses the technique of the oponent is almost more important than that of Sin Cara. Just look at his entrance last night after the first tag. He did his springboard entrance that I have seen on youtube that flows into a arm drag take-down. The Miz looked like he had no idea what to do (and didn't as he just stood there). Who's fault is that? I say Miz's as much as Sin Cara's. On the other end, yes, he botched the headscissors take-down of Riley, but it happened so fast, and Riley still sold it well, that it was easy to miss (that is, you know, if you aren't on these boards disecting every little thing). Same thing with last week and his "botch" of his finisher. That was Primo's fault, who fell onto the turnbuckle. Sin Cara tried to adapt by selling some kind of reversal (it was pretty bad, I'll give you that), but he was compensating for Primo messing up.

Bottom line, I agree with those that put his ceiling as upper-mid card, consistenly being in the IC and US chase, but unless he can actually handle a mic, in english, he won't sniff the ME scene. That being said, I can see him having some good feuds/matches with the likes of Bryan, Rhodes, DiBiasse, McIntyre, Sheamus, Bourne, Kidd, Morrison (who after that debacle of a promo last night should be knocked down a couple notches as well), Mysterio, Del Rio (Cara's occasional sniff of the ME scene), etc.

 

[TheKingHustla]

I think that the biggest thing they have to do with Sin is give him an established gimmick. if they are going to make him a superhero, make him a superhero. like instead of having him come out and have cena run in, have cena confront miz and get jumped, then have sin run to the rescue. since he can't talk, the real thing is that he is established. when taker didn't talk, he had a gimmick that everyone understood without words, when Kane didnt talk, he had a gimmick everyone understood without words. Cara needs that. if he has to fued with nexus or corre or whoever than let it establish him as a superhero tho. Have Nexus attack guys and have cara help. it's obvious that cara is here for the kiddies, much like mysterio, so they wont have him fued with him, it wouldnt make any sense, but if he were to save mysterio from cody rhodes than that would be a way to have them two in a storyline together like everyone seems to want to see.

 

[MrGrizz]

He still botched moves last night. The only reason he got over with the fans was because WWE had Cena to come out to be his partner.
Yes he needs to get used to wrestling the way the WWE does, compared to what he is used to. But will the fans allow him that much time before they give up on him.

 

[TCBT]

People botch. Perhaps Riley was positioned wrong. You guys go ahead and complain about Sin Cara botching but most of us and most of the roster wouldn't even dare TRY doing this shit. There will be mistakes and he has an off the wall style.

And I don't care what ANYBODY says about mic skills. They may get you further but RING SKILLS are more important to me. Why? If I'm going to buy a PPV, I want a good main event. I'll take Sin Cara vs. Rey over Cena vs. Miz even though I love Miz. But why? Sin Cara/Rey will be a damn good match but Cena/Miz will just suck. That's how I look at it. And what bothers me a great deal is how some people on here accuse others of not supporting the business when many of us are willing to do so and then we don't matter because we're not the target audience.


I for one will do everything in my power to get Sin Cara bumped up. I would love a mask.

You might not care about mic skills, but I think the WWE has moved far closer to Entertainment than to Sports. WWE Superstars NEED to have good mic skills. Being good in the ring can only get you so far noawadays, regardless of whether or not I agree with it.

Here's the thing. Modern day WWE doesn't quite use managers a whole lot. Yes, we have Vickie Guerrero, some may say Michael Cole, but that's it really. That's a significant part of the WWE that I think it's a shame we've lost, but that's how WWE has evolved. I can't see Sin Cara go very far for very long without a mouthpiece or manager.

One person said Undertaker didn't speak for a while. True. But he had a manager. So did Kane. And when the time came, they spoke. They couldn't be quiet forever. Unless Sin Cara learns English soon, how's his long term career in the WWE going to flourish???? Look at Yoshi Tatsu, Tajiri, Funaki, etc. And if you've ever tried learning a second language at an adult age, you know it's very difficult.

 

[CanIHaveYourAttention]

Concerning MIC SKILLS, an entertaining manager/translator would help a lot. Chavo? Does he even need a translator? The manager can "translate", as long as it's entertaining. Del Rio has a ring announcer, Sin Cara can have a manager.

Just throwing this out there, maybe the WWE should scout another LUCHADOR who is young and can become a heel for Sin Cara. Someone who he has worked with before, bring a bit of his past into the WWE. We'll see less botches and the entertaining matches he's had, with some WWE flavor thrown into it.

 

[MoizH28]

Okay so ive seen a couple of threads about this guy but he really isnt that good. WWE was high on him but they were openly disappointed after his first match. Honestly speaking yesterday he could have redeemed himself working with Cena and Miz but he botched at least 3 moves, including the finishing moonsault. Send him down to FCW or at least get rid of his entrance which he cant complete. I think he has a lot of talent just not WWE talent. I honestly think WWE could have put a mask on Kaval and it would be more entertaining since Kaval knows more moves then just a hurracarana. Anyone Agree?

 

[ITALIAN NYC]

He still botched moves last night. The only reason he got over with the fans was because WWE had Cena to come out to be his partner.
Yes he needs to get used to wrestling the way the WWE does, compared to what he is used to. But will the fans allow him that much time before they give up on him.

Are you kidding with this?

Last week the fans were chanting SIN CARA the whole match. Matter of fact, everytime he comes out they chant that. Cena got booed last night and Cara got a bigger pop then cena did, esp while in the ring.

Cara is NOT the one botching these moves, everyone he works with is. The only one he botched himself was the first spot when he attacked sheamus. Everything else was on the other wrestlers. Riley was suppossed to catch his legs last night, he didnt.

This guy has to get use to not working with people his style. Takes a little time but he will get there. He should be in there with guys he can work with.

 

[Chadmw]

I'm usually a person who enjoys the high flyers who as some people in the IWC call spot monkeys. And I'm usually the last person that actually notices botched spots unless they are very obvious, and last night Sin Cara had about 4 or 5 botched spots that I caught in that one match.

Some people said who cares if he botches a couple of spots he is still exciting to watch, ehich is true, but if you are someone that consistently botches spots you are eventually going to hurt someone.

Now the big question is are the botched spots his fault, as from what I have read (I have actually never seen any of his matches in Mexico), people say he is amazing, or are they the fault of the other wrestlers in the ring, because they are not used to his style?

 

[93178]

All wrestling moves require both people to be able to preform the moves and know how to setup/sell them. If the other person is out of place or doesn't know wtf is going on its going to look bad and get botched. I'm not saying every both from Cara was no fault of his own, but its not just his fault its both people. His appoint had to know whats going on and needs to get in the right spot.

Shane Helms (Hurricane) has talked about this a few times. When one person does a dive off the ropes, the person they dive onto needs to know how to catch them properly. If the person they are diving onto doesn't know how to dive or never dove before, they wont know the proper way to catch the person and will prob fuck it up. I think that comes into play with pretty much all high flyer moves also. If the person you are working with doesn't know how to preform the moves they wont know how to take the moves and sell them right. Cara is used to working with people who all know how to do these moves and all know how to setup/sell these moves and get the right placement and speed. Now hes working with people that 1, don't even speak the same language as him but also don't know how to really preform/setup for these moves.

Cara has to slow his pace down a little, or atleast do so when hes working with the bigger guys and the people hes working with needs to speed up there pace a little. Wrestling requires both people needing to know what they are doing, it doesn't matter how good the one is if the other has no idea whats going on.

I really want to see Cara in some matches with Rey, Chavo and Alberto. They all can speak Spanish so they will understand eachother in the ring and they have all worked the Lucha style before so they would know exactly whats going on.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Cara is NOT the one botching these moves, everyone he works with is. The only one he botched himself was the first spot when he attacked sheamus. Everything else was on the other wrestlers. Riley was suppossed to catch his legs last night, he didnt.

ITS NOT MY FAULT I GET BAD GRADES, I HAVE SHITTY TEACHERS!!!! IT'S NOT MY FAULT I GET FIRED FROM ALL MY JOBS, I HAVE SHITTY BOSSES!!!!! IT'S NOT MY FAULT MY SON'S IN JAIL, HE'S A SHITTY SON!!!!! IT'S NOT MY FAULT see where I'm going with this?

When there are botches in ALL of your matches regardless of who you're with, it's your fuckin fault. I would venture to say that you've NEVER taken a bump. If you have, you probably weren't trained properly; so you have no idea who's fault it really is based on a "how to" perspective. However, logic tells me that when shit goes bad consistently with one guy, it's kinda their fault.

that said, Cara needs to adjust TO the WWE style and the WWE audience. I don't mean totally change, but less dancy dancy and more fighty fighty.

 

[sunnydays]

Having seen some of his matches on youtube and his early WWE days.. I can say that he is no better then Super Crazy, Juventua or Psychosis.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Future Great? More like Future Endeavored, if they don't make a few changes with him.


For one, the luch libre Mexican wrestler gimmick is totally played out in WWE. What they're doing with ADR is the better way to go with this Latino wrestlers.

Also, Sin Cara is going to have to talk on the mic or he'll never reach the top.

So far to me, I've been underwhelmed by him on RAW. Whereas ADR came in and made an impact, this guy came in to mild hype and now just seems rather generic.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I don't think he'll need mic skills, they'll just have to be a little more creative. I think he can be a future star if they use him like Mysterio as the perpetual underdog. By "star" I mean solid midcarder always on PPVs.

 

[Professor]

Sin cara needs to stop making every move a jaw dropper. Less is more, and over kill , loses the impact. He should take it down a level and just hit a few specials in a match and focus more on psychcology instead of being a spot monkey. Of course he is trying to impress on his debut but I still think it would more effective to bring it down a bit.

I actually dont mind botches. Makes it more realistic. Every athlete makes mistakes.

 

[cubuff37]

I was very disappointed in Sin Cara's in-ring ability. He botched way too many moves which makes him look bad, ESPECIALLY since he's a high flyer. All those botches just made him seem like an ass. I like his mask and high flying style, its just too bad he sucks at it :/

I have a lot of hope in Sin Cara. He is only doing all of these flips and flashy moves to get over with the crowd and kids and let everyone know what he is capable of. It is obviously working as people are behind him and even getting a reaction out of the crowd. I'm sure once he gets suited into a feud and gets more comfortable in the ring he will have more offence than flips and tricks. Give him time to develop into the star I'm sure he can be.

After the draft, I expect Sin Cara to start a feud on what ever brand he is on or continue with Sheamus and other bullies. Mind you he is still having to adapt to a whole new style and he may botch every once in a while in the process of adapting but his future seems bright as of now.

You said that he needs to adapt to a whole new style of wrestlers, but thats not where his botches are coming from. He's messing up on ring ropes and turnbuckles, not stuff that hes new to.

 

[ProtomanV2]

i think he will have a great future his moves are high flying and other wrestlers must get used to working with him as well. as long as he is not wasted like ultimo dragon

 

[X]

It's threads like these that piss me off. Not because it's "too early" to talk about Sin Cara as a future legend, but because almost everyone in this thread seemingly has absolutely no knowledge of Mistico (Sin Cara) and the incredible career he's already had in Mexico and abroad. This guy was one of the biggest box office draws in wrestling over the last decade, being THE biggest box office draw in ALL of wrestling (WWE included) in 2006 where he drew insane crowds for CMLL. He continued to be their biggest draw all the way up until he left the company, we're talking huge box office numbers here, comparable to John Cena in the WWE or Brock Lesnar in the UFC. Considering he's beaten every legend CMLL had to offer and a slew of Japanese legends as well (he's beaten Jushin Liger many times), I'd say if the guy retired right now he'd probably still already be a Hall of Famer. Maybe not in the WWE, but for wrestling in general, definitely. I cannot stress how big of a star this dude was/is in Mexico, tabloids would follow him around for God's sake.

So with all of that said, yes, his chances of being a "future WWE legend" are very high. The WWE is keen on having him be their next Latino star, and he's already one of the biggest ones in Mexico. You pair him up with Rey Mysterio for a match in Mexico City, and they'll draw a record-breaking kind of crowd. So long as he adjusts his style to the WWE a bit, he works hard, and is booked correctly, there's no reason he won't be a future WWE Hall of Famer or "legend" if you will. To most international wrestling fans, he already is.

 

[X]

I was very disappointed in Sin Cara's in-ring ability. He botched way too many moves which makes him look bad, ESPECIALLY since he's a high flyer. All those botches just made him seem like an ass. I like his mask and high flying style, its just too bad he sucks at it :/

Wow, okay, first of all he didn't botch shit in the Primo match, that was ALL Primo's fault. Secondly, his "botch" during the tag match with Cena was barely even a botch. He slipped slightly on the ropes, but still hit the quebrada moonsault. It was a bit sloppy, but not botched.

Secondly, the fact that you think he "sucks" at the "high flying" aka lucha libre style is so silly that I'm inclined to think you don't know the first thing about lucha libre, Mistico, or really wrestling in general.

Seriously, do some research before spouting bullshit. Go to YouTube and watch some Mistico matches. He most certainly does not "suck" at high-flying.

 

[blueskyy]

Sin Cara is destined for failure. Look at his match with Primo. Who in your mind wrestle better? Wrestling is not about orchestrating every moves with your opponent. It's about working with your opponent and countering one other. Sin Cara finishing move is a disaster. How do you consider it a finishing move they are doing their own flips but only side by side? That looked really fake. It's just like Mysterio's 619. Many a time, you can see his opponent setting themselves up. There's is no fluidity at all! Mysterio used to be very good, now just an average performer; Sin Cara is just lame. Him spring boarding in the ring makes him even lamer. Yes, he used a trampoline.

 

[a0161613]

I do feel that WWE are intent on pushing him hard. The rub he has already from Cena and Miz is remarkable. There aren't many debutants who get that start, certainly not recently.

He defnitely needs some help and time. He is making the same kind of mistakes that Jericho did and it was due to different surroundings and colleagues. However he has the track record and the same kind of experience of a Rey, Jericho or Benoit. There's no reason to believe he can't adapt like they did and be quite successful

 

[zomigosh]

I was very disappointed in Sin Cara's in-ring ability. He botched way too many moves which makes him look bad, ESPECIALLY since he's a high flyer. All those botches just made him seem like an ass. I like his mask and high flying style, its just too bad he sucks at it :/



You said that he needs to adapt to a whole new style of wrestlers, but thats not where his botches are coming from. He's messing up on ring ropes and turnbuckles, not stuff that hes new to.

There's nothing wrong with his in-ring ability. He does not suck, he can't just use all of his fancy lucho libre moves on wrestlers who don't know how to take it. Infact, all botched moves in his match against primo were primo's fault.

Ontopic: He'll be a big star, he already is a big star outside of the WWE. He'll be pushed to the stars. Why? The fans love masked wrestlers, they love his moveset. Most importantly, the WWE can rake up millions through merchandise with him.