She eyes me like a pisces when I am weak

[X]

I love AIC as well, big fan. But again, to be quite honest, AIC weren't really a grunge band, they were just a plain old unabashed metal band really.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Well, if we're narrowing it down for Nirvana to be the only grunge band, I guess they win.


Actually, I would say AiC's lyrics are grunge worthy. The guitar parts might be metal, but the songs are another intellectual plane than Metallica or Guns n Roses.

 

[X]

Ugh, I can't stand GNR. Talk about overrated. If it wasn't for Slash that band would've been shit.

There were plenty of grunge bands, it's just that alot of bands that are called grunge kind of aren't. Soundgarden were definitely grunge, though very metal at times, so was AIC, but I always considered them more of a heavy metal band.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I like GnR, always have.

I'm not sure what makes a band grunge. I just use it as a catch all for that alt rock scene. When I say grunge band, in hte future, I am referring to Nirvana, PJ, AiC, STP, Soundgarden, Porno for Pyro's and Jane's Addiction.

And, from earlier, fuck you, the Toadies rock.

 

[X]

You and that Texas bias.

Go check out the Bob Backlund thread I just made. I know you want to.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=73375

 

[FromTheSouth]

I'll check it out but the NyQuil is taking effect.

 

[Shadowmancer]

X come on Sorum isn't a bad drummer and McCaggan isn't a bad bass player.

 

[X]

I know, but Axl is just so bad that he drags the whole band down.

 

[Moon Knight]

Ugh. Nirvana was garbage, mostly screaming and lyrics that made no sense. Sounded like he was high when he wrote them. AIC >>>> Nirvana. They don't get enough respect.

 

[X]

Ugh. Nirvana was garbage, mostly screaming and lyrics that made no sense. Sounded like he was high when he wrote them. AIC >>>> Nirvana. They don't get enough respect.

The irony in this statement is overwhelming.

 

[D-Man]

It's poetry. That's what lyrics are, whether written to music or not. Poetry. This isn't debatable. Explain to me how his lyrics are so terrible.

Every word Cobain wrote had a meaning. You're really not up on your poetry are you D-Man? What do you think it is? Poetry doesn't need to tell you a story, it needs to convey emotion.

This cracks me up. People are so quick to call jumbled words "poetry". It's an easy excuse to make meaningless bangter seem like it has some underlying meaning that no one would understand unless they just did their third eightball.

It's just as ridiculous as the poem, "Ode To a Goldfish." If you haven't heard of it, here's the (loosely labeled) poem's phrasing:

"Oh, my wet pet."

That's it.

And you call THAT poetry?!? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Poetry can be beautiful, meaningful, or ugly and meaningless. But for some stupid fucking reason, when jarbled words are thrown together without meaning or purpose and the author is called out on it, the excuse of "It's just poetry" is misused and abused. Nirvana is a perfect example of that.

Check this out:

The lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" were often difficult for listeners to decipher, both due to their nonsensicality and because of Cobain's slurred, guttural singing voice. This problem was compounded by the fact that the Nevermind album liner notes did not include any lyrics for the songs aside from selected lyrical fragments. This incomprehensibility contributed to the early resistance from radio stations towards adding the song to their playlists; one Geffen promoter recalled that people from rock radio told her, "We can't play this. I can't understand what the guy is saying." MTV went as far as to prepare a version of the video that included the lyrics running across the bottom of the screen, which they aired when the video was added to their heavy rotation schedule. The lyrics for the album—and some from earlier or alternate versions of the songs—were later released with the liner notes of the "Lithium" single in 1992. American rock critic Dave Marsh noted comments by disc jockeys of the time that the song was "the 'Louie Louie' of the nineties" and wrote, "Like 'Louie,' only more so, 'Teen Spirit' reveals its secrets reluctantly and then often incoherently." Marsh, trying to decipher the lyrics of the song, felt after reading the correct lyrics from the song's sheet music that "what I imagined was quite a bit better (at least, more gratifying) than what Nirvana actually sang," and added, "Worst of all, I'm not sure that I know more about [the meaning of] 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' now than before I plunked down for the official version of the facts."

"Teen Spirit" is widely interpreted to be a teen revolution anthem, an interpretation reinforced by the song's music video. When discussing the song in Michael Azerrad's biography Come as You Are: The Story of Nirvana, Cobain revealed that he felt a duty "to describe what I felt about my surroundings and my generation and people my age." The book Teen Spirit: The Stories Behind Every Nirvana Song describes "Teen Spirit" as "a typically murky Cobain exploration of meaning and meaninglessness." Azerrad plays upon the juxtaposition of Cobain's contradictory lyrics (such as "It's fun to lose and to pretend") and states "the point that emerges isn't just the conflict of two opposing ideas, but the confusion and anger that the conflict produces in the narrator—he's angry that he's confused." Azerrad's conclusion is that the song is "alternately a sarcastic reaction to the idea of actually having a revolution, yet it also embraces the idea."

I think this pretty much explains my point and proves that I am, in fact, "up on my poetry."

Utter horseshit. That would imply that Nirvana weren't very popular while alive, like Owen Hart. Except, you know, they were the biggest band on the planet. And they continued to be extremely popular well after his death

Just because a band is popular doesn't mean theyre deserving of their fame. Hell, Panic at the Disco was huge for a while and they are one of the biggest, collective pieces of shit that I've ever heard.

Nirvana served their purpose well. They were the chosen leaders of a new revolution of music. And Smells Like Teen Spirit is an incredible song. But they were the result of good timing and great marketing by record companies. I'm not saying they were a "bad" band. I'm just agreeing with IC25 when I say that they are extremely overrated.

I agree with that, I've been saying that for years. Nirvana were still the better band in the long run who produced much more consistently good music though.

And it's a damn shame, too. AIC just buries Nirvana in every single way. In my opinion, Cantrell was a MUCH better songwriter than Cobain, Staley was (obviously) a better singer (hell, so was Cantrell), and Sean Kinney was a better drummer than Dave Grohl (if you don't believe me, listen to the drums on "No Excuses").

Anyone who ever said Nirvana invented grunge is an idiot. They just perfected it.

I can't agree with this. Nirvana didn't "perfect" anything. Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains perfected grunge by sticking to its roots while Nirvana's music floated more towards the standards of pop at the time after their Unplugged performance was released.

D-Man, this sounded like on big jack-off session to me. Especially the bolded part. You're a musician, so you understand music better than I do? I played in band for 3 years, Percussion section. Can I give you my opinion on musical matters? The last I checked, the only thing you needed for music was to be able to feel the music, and feel what the artist was trying to tell you. Didn't know I had to be apart of a band. I feel so silly now.

Know what... I retract my previous comment. It was a little bit "over the line." What I meant to say was that most people listen to a song, see the hype for the band on television and in the media, follow it like sheep, and based on how many kickbacks the records companies throw at MTV and the radio stations, they start believeing the hype and follow like sheep as they worship a band that doesn't deserve the credit.

Ugh, I can't stand GNR. Talk about overrated. If it wasn't for Slash that band would've been shit.

I know, but Axl is just so bad that he drags the whole band down.

I can see why you would say GnR was overrated, but honestly they were a great band. In a sea of hair bands, these guys just came at us with full force and were scary, dangerous, and destructive with their lyrical content and playing style. As seperate elements, they had their flaws. But they were a good example of how you need multiple elements in a chemistry set to make dynamite.

As for Axl, he's a fucking joke now. But back then, he had such a tremendous vocal prowess and stage presence. He was a douchebag backstage, but the guy was talented as fuck. He wrote most of the songs on GnR's albums (and took a little bit TOO much control, if you ask me) and is widely known my musicians as one of the top 10 frontmen of the past thirty years. That says a lot.

------------------------------------------------------------

This post made me realize that I need to get in the music threads more often LOL.

 

[X]

EDIT: I just realized I was far too dickish in this response. My apologies D-Man.

 

[D-Man]

I was SO hoping you'd come back at me and we could cross swords again, my fine, pot-smoking friend LOL!!!

What cracks me up is your total lack of understanding of what poetry actually is. You ever heard of the beatniks? Would you like to argue about whether or not Allen Ginsberg is a poet?

All I said was that claiming a body of words as being poetry is just as misunderstood and abused as people claiming that certain things as being "art.' It's such an obtuse point of view.

And since you're such an expert on what poetry really is (words that convery an emotion) I'll use your previous definition of "poetry" to write a poem right now...

"Xfear" by The D-Man
You're an imbecile.

There. Now, I didn't actually insult you. I wrote a poem. I "conveyed an emotion." (Sorry, I couldn't help myself )

"Without meaning or purpose"...BULL-FUCKING-SHIT. Explain to me how the lyrics to "Polly" have no meaning or purpose D-Man. Go on, explain.

You're taking me out of context to prove your point. Gee, there's a surprise.

That comment was referring to poetry, in general... not every single song that Nirvana wrote. However, many of their songs are completely misunderstood and confusing to the average listener.

By quoting a Wikipedia article? That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

Why, because it's the best internet source for facts? It completely proved how Nirvana's lyrics on "Smells Like Teen Spirit" were so misunderstood. But it disproves your statement so now it's stupid, right?

Again, unless you want to sit here and tell me Ginsberg or Kerouac isn't poetry either, or EE Cummings, well, you simply don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You seem to have it stuck in your head that poetry needs to be a rhyming story. It doesn't. At all. And your failure to realize that is what I'm speaking of when I speak of your total failure to grasp the concept of poetry here.

I never claimed to be an expert of poetry. However, I absolutely do not believe that it is a "rhyming story". And just because I can't named 5 poets off the top of my head doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

I can tell you that every bit of poetry that I've read in my lifetime had at least a shred of legitimate meaning to it. While there are a bunch of Nirvana songs that are written well, there are just as many that sound like they were rattled off the top of the head of a drug addict. Gee... that's what Cobain was. What a coincidence.

Never said their popularity was a reason for their quality, I was responding to the Owen Hart comparison, which was bullshit.

My bad. You combined those replies so I got confused. I ain't so smartt sometimez.

Great marketing by record companies? Are you fucking kidding me? They pressed and shipped less than 50,000 copies of the album when they first released Nevermind D-Man. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Just because they had low expectations for the album doesn't mean they weren't marketed correctly. Their success was mostly due to their first release, "Smells Like Teen Spirit." But once record companies saw the responses that Teen Spirit was getting from airtime on MTV and the radio, they put their marketing machines to work. That's why the video was on MTV and the radio every 5 minutes. Airplay costs money, and not Nirvana's money.

So much bullshit in that paragraph I don't even know where to begin. AIC had ONE great album, and a slew of mediocre ones. There's only one Nirvana album that could be considered mediocre, and that's Bleach.

Your opinions are just as strong about Nirvana as mine are about AIC. I think Nirvana had one decent album and the rest were mediocre.

And even that contains "About A Girl", which is a better song than anything AIC has EVER written.

I can rattle off 5 songs from the Dirt album alone that tramples on "About a Girl." But, I'll go with "Rooster" for now. See? Mine's bigger than yours.

If you want to sit here and explain to me how the song "About a Girl" is shit, well, I've lost all respect for ya D-Man.

Once again, it amuses me how you float to the extremes when someone doesn't agree with you. Overrated /= Sucks.

I'll admit... I HATE Nirvana. But, I don't think they suck. Obviously, their success dictates that they were better than average. I think they're overrated. I think they were blown out of proportion when it comes to how good they actually were.

As for "About a Girl", I honestly hate that song more than every other Nirvana song written. It just sounds so whiny and boring to me. I can honestly say that I can' understand the appeal. But I'm entitled to my opinion.

And Kinney better than Grohl? Total horseshit. Go look up Grohl's work with the band Scream.

I have. I'm a huge fan of Grohl.. I mean HUUUUGE. But, Kinney's playing style was very different than Grohl's. Grohl was a very straight-up drummer. He has fast hands and good fills, but during verses and bridges he would just play the same robotic beats. Kinney was constantly adding flair and accents during all parts of the songs that he played, giving the songs a less generic beat and sound to them. But once again, that's just my opinion.

And then there's the people who hear so much praise about something, and immediately decide it's cool to hate on it because "Hey, look at me, I have a differing opinion! I'm a rebel, I know more than all of you!"

You're just as much of a culprit in that comment as I am so get off your soap box.

Dangerous? Dangerous? GNR were about as dangerous as a wet kitten. Don't know very much about punk do we man? GNR were decent, but there were about 10 million bands exactly like them at that time. There's never been a band that was like Nirvana, ever.

You keep referring back to punk... once again, I fail to see Nirvana as punk. Call me naive or what, but I just don't see it. Nirvana and the Seattle movement may have had punk roots, but they revolutionized music by creating grunge. Let's face it, heavy metal came from rock and roll, but don't refer back to the days of Elvis Presley to prove my points.

You make GnR out to be some kind of generic band that meant nothing to the world. The funny thing about them was that record companies were actually "afraid" of them and wouldn't sign them. To me, that's where I got "dangerous" from.

Sure, one of the top ten. Always listed behind Cobain though.

You actually think Kurt Cobain is a better "frontman" than Axl Rose?!!? <deep breath>

Ok, before I fall off my chair from laughter, I'm referring to his abilities as a performer and singer and not as a songwriter. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were speaking about their abilities as song writers before I piss on any other meaning behind your statement. But if you're talking about live performances then your opinion is outshined by almost every band that came out of the 1980's and many that exist today that have rated Axl Rose as one of the greatest live performers (a.k.a. "frontmen") in history.

I really suggest you don't because you've lost a bit of my respect here today D-Man. Oh how I'm disappointed in you young man

Just because you may think you disproved anything that I said in regards to Nirvana doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to music. If anything, you've disappointed me because your one-dimensional way of thinking and over-emotional debating style. This shows that on some occasions, you're lacking in the ability to compromise and respect someone else's views on music. I understand that you feel strongly about what you like and dislike, but just because you like a band, that doesn't mean they are awesome and anyone else that thinks otherwise is wrong and stupid.

Either way, I'd love to have a beer and a couple of bong hits with ya someday and argue about this in person .

EDIT: Yeah, you were a bit "dickish". But you have an opinion and you're entitled to it. Plus, I already wrote this big response and didn't want it to go to waste LOL. But I still love you.

 

[gd]

Smashing Pumpkins are pretty good.

 

[jmt225]

Nirvana > Your Favorite Band.

God, it's just so cool to hate Nirvana these days, huh? You know why they are widely considered one of the greatest bands of all time? Because there's not a frontman in the history of music who ever had more emotion in his voice than Kurt Cobain. Not one. If you can name someone who did, then please let me hear it. Also, combine that with the fact that Cobain was an unbelievably tremendous guitarist, to the point where Rolling Stone listed him as the 12th greatest guitarist in history, there's no reason not to respect this man, his band, and the music they created.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I disagree with your thought that Nirvana is better than my favorite band. They're not better than Skynard, Zep, or Floyd. Those are my favorite bands.

Furthermore, I don't think Cobain has more emotion in his voice than Staley. He may be a better guitarist, but I think Staley's voice is a hundred times more emotive than Cobain's. This, of course, is my opinion.

I have never said Nirvana sucked, but they certainly aren't the best band ever either.

 

[Razor]

I disagree with your thought that Nirvana is better than my favorite band. They're not better than Skynard, Zep, or Floyd. Those are my favorite bands.

Furthermore, I don't think Cobain has more emotion in his voice than Staley. He may be a better guitarist, but I think Staley's voice is a hundred times more emotive than Cobain's. This, of course, is my opinion.

I have never said Nirvana sucked, but they certainly aren't the best band ever either.

I really, really hate Skynyrd. It has been played soooooooooooooo much in my schooldays, I just despise it as of today. Plus, they wrote Sweet Home Alabama. Or, as I've re-named it, the "Oh! Sweet Home Alabama! Let's all start singing off-note and off-key until we get to a part that's not the chorus and completely fumble the lyrics! " travesty of Southern Rock.

.../twitch

 

[FromTheSouth]

I would be happy never hearing Sweet Home Alabama again. That being said, Freebird is epic, and Simple Man may be the best blues song every written.

 

[Razor]

I would be happy never hearing Sweet Home Alabama again. That being said, Freebird is epic, and Simple Man may be the best blues song every written.

Freebird is almost as guilty as Sweet Home Alabama. But I can let it slide, because that song is pretty damn good when you don't have the 100000 rednecks in attendance at your local football game orgasming over the opening chords.

I really like "Ballad of Curtis Leow." Great song.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Another example of greatness. That song gets overlooked so often, but the steel guitarr and slide were invented to play the ballad of Curtis Lowe.

 

[X]

The best blues song ever written was not written by a white man, and most certainly was not written by Lynyrd Skynyrd.

Do not insult the blues good sir. Synyrd were legendary, but let's not go overboard.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Simple Man was amazing, and in my opinion, is the best blues song ever. Are you now telling me that my opinion is wrong because I didn't choose a black man?

 

[X]

When it comes to the blues, yep. Call it racist, but there are very, very, very few white men that could ever play the blues anywhere near the level that black men can. Muddy Waters, BB King, Leadbelly, Howlin' Wolf...all of these men produced better blues than Skynyrd. Simple Man isn't even a blues song, it's southern rock.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Southern Rock is the blues.....for white people.

Zep is often described as a blues band too.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Clapton