Sam's Thread of Chattin' w/ Jake & Other Robust Subjects

[Uncle Sam]

I like Daniel Bryan nearly as much as I like Karl Marx.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Watched The Matrix again last night, Jake. I was wrong when I said it never got old.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I've been told he can't rejoin Nexus because he's massively over, he needs to feud with The Miz and he gave Nexus a kicking on Sunday.

1) When has somebody who's massively over turning heel not been, at the very least, interesting.

2) That feud will be finished after Night Of Champions.

3) He was in the ring for about 3 minutes on Sunday. His beating of Cena and co lasted about 15 minutes. Adding him to the group is simple, he was bough back because he was sorry about spitting on Cena and choking Justin Roberts, turns out he lied. OMG now Nexus has a championship, a better worker and a potentially big singles feud between him and Cena.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Watched The Matrix again last night, Jake. I was wrong when I said it never got old.

Haven't seen it since I saw the sequels. It's just not relevant anymore.

 

[Ferbian]

1. Indeed, look at CM Punk for starters.

2. Arguable, I mean WWE could probably carry it on rather easily I'm sure. Miz and Daniel Bryan has been brewing for long.

3. Yeah but he had face reaction through the majority of his WWE career. The only time he didn't was that single night, other than that it's been cheers. But I can definitely see it from your perspective, Jake.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

2. Arguable, I mean WWE could probably carry it on rather easily I'm sure. Miz and Daniel Bryan has been brewing for long.

3. Yeah but he had face reaction through the majority of his WWE career. The only time he didn't was that single night, other than that it's been cheers. But I can definitely see it from your perspective, Jake.

The general consensus seems to be vs. The Miz now, Cena in a few years. I'm thinking The Miz right now, Cena in three months.

It's not like WWE will wait for the match to happen. It'll be on TV in a couple of months.

Also I'm of the opinion that if you're a good enough performer you shouldn't really have any problems if you switch from face/heel to heel/face.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's Saturday. Means football's on. Probably.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

It's Saturday. Means football's on. Probably.

I think we'll beat Spurs. 2-0, my football outcomes are usually right. My scores could usually use a little work.

 

[Ferbian]

The general consensus seems to be vs. The Miz now, Cena in a few years. I'm thinking The Miz right now, Cena in three months.

It's not like WWE will wait for the match to happen. It'll be on TV in a couple of months.

Also I'm of the opinion that if you're a good enough performer you shouldn't really have any problems if you switch from face/heel to heel/face.

3 months? Don't you think that's rushing Bryan just a little bit? Especially considering Wade is most likely gonna be more than busy with Cena for just a month or so to go?

True, the match in itself could happen very soon. However I'm not seeing it come out as a feud or anything.

Performance and alignment turns is two different things if you ask me. I mean from one perspective, sure you can be a great performer, but if the bookers are awful on you, your turn is awful.

Not sure how well Bryan will handle being turned heel again already though. Does it matter though? Not sure. Miz will have his hands on Bryan for now, so still time to keep him face.. For now.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm going to go do something. Not sure what. I'll think of it when I get there. Not sure where.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

3 months? Don't you think that's rushing Bryan just a little bit? Especially considering Wade is most likely gonna be more than busy with Cena for just a month or so to go?

True, the match in itself could happen very soon. However I'm not seeing it come out as a feud or anything.

No, I think three months would be perfect. It's the wrong time of year to expect a long drawn out feud. Have the singles feud start by having Bryan pin Cena at Survivor Series, a singles match at TLC, a blow off match at the Rumble, then both can be in a Chamber match and that should hopefully put Bryan in a position where he's given a real WrestleMania match instead of being chucked into a MITB ladder match.

Spoiler

Wade Barret is using his world title shot at Night Of Champions. He's not going to win that 6-Pack match.

 

[Ferbian]

No, I think three months would be perfect. It's the wrong time of year to expect a long drawn out feud. Have the singles feud start by having Bryan pin Cena at Survivor Series, a singles match at TLC, a blow off match at the Rumble, then both can be in a Chamber match and that should hopefully put Bryan in a position where he's given a real WrestleMania match instead of being chucked into a MITB ladder match.

Wrong time of the year? Arguable Jake. Considering the fact that it was around this time we saw both Undertaker / CM Punk as well as John Cena / Randy Orton drag it self long enough was it not?

I'm not saying that Miz and Bryan will continue for 3 months or something. But I'm not exactly seeing 3 months to be enough time for Bryan to reach a level where he's warranted a feud with John Cena of all people. I mean currently it's obvious WWE is fucking high and doped up on Wade Barrett and The Nexus. So don't you honestly think Wade is the key in this whole feud for now?

Also I like how you display the whole deal up till Wrestlemania. Don't see him going into the Money in the Bank, Cena or not however. But I could definitely see him culminating at some kind of match at Wrestlemania 27, a singles match most likely.

 

[Stickstar 16]

How is it possible to love Marxism? It's a bunch of idiots coming up with excuses for lazy idiots. "Well, it's not his fault he didn't go to school and therefore get a good job, it's the fault of the ruling class..." Sure. Gordon is my favourite "Well, men only commit rape and domestic violence because of capitalism and womens integration into the workforce" Sure, it's not that they're horrible people or anything...

Its the theory behind it rather than the actual practice, the theory that if we the proletariat rise up and usurp the bourgeoisie, that we will be in control of our own life. Its like communism, great in theory but in the end no one factors in human flaws like greed etc and when you try to apply it you end up with China or the former soviet union, where they feel/felt that they were communist, but really they are/were living with in a facist regime. I'm great fan of what the theories say more so than how they work in society, although that in itself can be interesting.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Wrong time of the year? Arguable Jake. Considering the fact that it was around this time we saw both Undertaker / CM Punk as well as John Cena / Randy Orton drag it self long enough was it not?

I should've put approaching. However three of those guys are established headliners. There's no wrong time of the year for them, they'll be found places on PPVs regardless. Bryan has got until the Rumble to make himself an indispensable member of the roster. Being US champion won't be enough, he could quite easily find himself just thrown into matches at the Rumble, Elimination Chamber & Mania. And somebody that popular, with his momentum at this time should really have something better.

I'm not saying that Miz and Bryan will continue for 3 months or something. But I'm not exactly seeing 3 months to be enough time for Bryan to reach a level where he's warranted a feud with John Cena of all people. I mean currently it's obvious WWE is fucking high and doped up on Wade Barrett and The Nexus.

I think he's there already. He's popular, no member of the Nexus has matches his intensity with a beat down so far (and they've had multiple more opportunities) etc.

So don't you honestly think Wade is the key in this whole feud for now?

No. Admittedly his only real competition within the Nexus is Skip Sheffield, but I don't think anybody takes Barrett seriously. The first time he's looked competitive in a match since the end of NXT Season 1 was on Monday against Jericho. Even then that match needed a lot of work.

Cena made him tap on Sunday, in a match Nexus really should've been booked to win.

Also I like how you display the whole deal up till Wrestlemania. Don't see him going into the Money in the Bank, Cena or not however. But I could definitely see him culminating at some kind of match at Wrestlemania 27, a singles match most likely.

I see him losing momentum if he wins the US title. WWE don't typically do a lot with their mid card champions in the run up to mania.

 

[Ferbian]

I should've put approaching. However three of those guys are established headliners. There's no wrong time of the year for them, they'll be found places on PPVs regardless. Bryan has got until the Rumble to make himself an indispensable member of the roster. Being US champion won't be enough, he could quite easily find himself just thrown into matches at the Rumble, Elimination Chamber & Mania. And somebody that popular, with his momentum at this time should really have something better.

You're sure United States champion won't be enough? Champion around that time, could probably warrant you a match at Wrestlemania with the title on the line? I'm sure Bryan in one way or another will find his way onto Wrestlemania's card. Considering WWE tries to stuff that bitch full every year, and Bryan ain't doing no dark match battle royal.

I think he's there already. He's popular, no member of the Nexus has matches his intensity with a beat down so far (and they've had multiple more opportunities) etc.

Being popular and all that shit doesn't usually warrant you to a position to face the top guy just yet does it Jake? Considering the fact that there's a damn well nice portion of the current roster that are over, but what are they doing?

So really by your logics I would assume you're saying, with the exception of the beat down - Evan Bourne should be feuding with John Cena by now?

No. Admittedly his only real competition within the Nexus is Skip Sheffield, but I don't think anybody takes Barrett seriously. The first time he's looked competitive in a match since the end of NXT Season 1 was on Monday against Jericho. Even then that match needed a lot of work.

Might be. I mean, sure in the ring Wade isn't really that legitimate just yet. However he's more than able to carry himself, and if just booked properly he's way more legit than Bryan Danielson, or anyone in The Nexus ranks.

However in the ring, simply on the microphone, it's obvious Wade is looking legit. I mean, quite honestly if you tuned in on the first night ever of watching wrestling, and you saw the episode where John Cena and Wade Barrett stood face to face only those two. Who would you say looked like the legit main event wrestler of the two? Wade Barrett.

Cena made him tap on Sunday, in a match Nexus really should've been booked to win.

I can only partially agree that Nexus deserved that victory. However it also made perfect sense to have Team WWE actually bring down The Nexus for once. However it has overall hurt them just a bit, I'm sure they can regain that shred of credibility they lost.

I see him losing momentum if he wins the US title. WWE don't typically do a lot with their mid card champions in the run up to mania.

Loosing it is questionable. Considering it'll be momentum going against one of the more over heels of the company. The Miz is over, and he's hated as well. Momentum could only be build if he becomes the champion.

Besides, if WWE puts the championship on Bryan leading up to Wrestlemania, what's to stop them from putting him on the card? I mean if WWE wants him as champion, and he has no other worthwhile match, why not be on the card? Especially considering the only reason, I'm sure Miz wasn't defending his United States championship at Wrestlemania 26 was due to him being tag team champion, a match that allowed for more fuckers to be stuffed inside of the card.

 

[Uncle Sam]

These posts are much, much too long.

 

[Ferbian]

Ferbian - Word forting spam topics since 2009.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

You're sure United States champion won't be enough? Champion around that time, could probably warrant you a match at Wrestlemania with the title on the line?

Wasn't benoit vs. MVP the last time the US title was defended at Mania? The IC title didn't get a match for years and then when it did it was 20 seconds long.

I'm sure Bryan in one way or another will find his way onto Wrestlemania's card. Considering WWE tries to stuff that bitch full every year, and Bryan ain't doing no dark match battle royal.

No doubt he'll be on the card, but if he feuded with Cena you'd certainly expect him to get a properly booked singles match instead of making up the numbers in one of those massive multi-man matches they do.

Being popular and all that shit doesn't usually warrant you to a position to face the top guy just yet does it Jake? Considering the fact that there's a damn well nice portion of the current roster that are over, but what are they doing?

Sure, but Bryan & Cena have a little bit of history. And Cena is in desperate need of some fresh opponents.

So really by your logics I would assume you're saying, with the exception of the beat down - Evan Bourne should be feuding with John Cena by now?

In the run up to the MITB PPV I would've said that's one of the biggest matches WWE could promote at that time. Cena vs. Bourne is a one-off PPV match that WWE need to do in the future, but it's not a feud.

Might be. I mean, sure in the ring Wade isn't really that legitimate just yet. However he's more than able to carry himself, and if just booked properly he's way more legit than Bryan Danielson, or anyone in The Nexus ranks.

I don't see how, Danielson has a reputation that WWE can and have been using. Wade Barrett is the leader of the Nexus but only recently he was put in a match against Mark Henry where he won, but got very little offence. Bryan faced Batista several months ago, lost, but looked competitive.

However in the ring, simply on the microphone, it's obvious Wade is looking legit. I mean, quite honestly if you tuned in on the first night ever of watching wrestling, and you saw the episode where John Cena and Wade Barrett stood face to face only those two. Who would you say looked like the legit main event wrestler of the two? Wade Barrett.

He looks like he could be a headliner and he's an ok talker, but that's it. He's been sharing mic duties with the other Nexus guys and Sheffield looks just as much like a headliner as he does.

Bryan was doing good interviews on his own before he got fired. Barrett does ok interviews within a group.

I can only partially agree that Nexus deserved that victory. However it also made perfect sense to have Team WWE actually bring down The Nexus for once. However it has overall hurt them just a bit, I'm sure they can regain that shred of credibility they lost.

I think it makes sense for WWE to bring then down at the end. Nexus pretty much failed at their first big hurdle.

Loosing it is questionable. Considering it'll be momentum going against one of the more over heels of the company. The Miz is over, and he's hated as well. Momentum could only be build if he becomes the champion.

He's peaked with that belt before he's even won it. Who will he feud with after The Miz? A freshly turned John Morrison, Ezekiel Jackson when he returns, William Regal! Sounds fairly dull to me.

Besides, if WWE puts the championship on Bryan leading up to Wrestlemania, what's to stop them from putting him on the card? I mean if WWE wants him as champion, and he has no other worthwhile match, why not be on the card?

They could do that. But if you look at all of the guys who usually get proper matches at Mania they're usually well established. Sheamus is an exception, but he feuded with Cena and was WWE champion in the run up to Mania.

I just don't see there being a US title match on a Mania card unless it's multi-man or it's held by somebody like Randy Orton.

Especially considering the only reason I'm sure Miz wasn't defending his United States championship at Wrestlemania 26 was due to him being tag team champion, a match that allowed for more fuckers to be stuffed inside of the card.

If it wasn't for the tag match I'd have expected him in MITB.

 

[Ferbian]

Wasn't benoit vs. MVP the last time the US title was defended at Mania? The IC title didn't get a match for years and then when it did it was 20 seconds long.

True that, but if WWE wants to feature Bryan Danielson at Wrestlemania, and he's champion, then they'll find a way to do it in a championship match. Don't you think?

No doubt he'll be on the card, but if he feuded with Cena you'd certainly expect him to get a properly booked singles match instead of making up the numbers in one of those massive multi-man matches they do.

Yeah, a properly booked singles match against the guy that would most likely be in there for a world title? John hasn't been featured ever in a match that wasn't for a championship after all. So why would we want him against John Cena, instead of a guy we're pretty much guaranteed will be good, but no championship involvement?

Sure, but Bryan & Cena have a little bit of history. And Cena is in desperate need of some fresh opponents.

Miz could be a fresh opponent just as well.

In the run up to the MITB PPV I would've said that's one of the biggest matches WWE could promote at that time. Cena vs. Bourne is a one-off PPV match that WWE need to do in the future, but it's not a feud.

Yeah, pretty much the same with Bryan Danielson vs John Cena. One-off Pay Per View match. Not a feud, for now.

I don't see how, Danielson has a reputation that WWE can and have been using. Wade Barrett is the leader of the Nexus but only recently he was put in a match against Mark Henry where he won, but got very little offence. Bryan faced Batista several months ago, lost, but looked competitive.

So I'm guessing you forgot the John Cena vs Wade Barrett match as well? The one where Wade looked competitive just as well, but never didn't win either?

He looks like he could be a headliner and he's an ok talker, but that's it. He's been sharing mic duties with the other Nexus guys and Sheffield looks just as much like a headliner as he does.

The only reason he's sharing mic duties is because the others would fade into obscurity of in-ring crap and muscles if it wasn't for some microphone time. They all need it, just like CM Punk gave Serena and Gallows microphone time.

Bryan was doing good interviews on his own before he got fired. Barrett does ok interviews within a group.

Barrett does ok interviews outside of The Nexus just as well. Bryan had the Cole intensity to play off, Wade was pretty much left with what the writers gave him, or what could possibly have been unscripted material as well.

I think it makes sense for WWE to bring then down at the end. Nexus pretty much failed at their first big hurdle.

Agreed, Summerslam or Royal Rumble should've been the culminating points. Something like fucking up in their Summerslam match (It's what it's there for.. Summerslam isn't there for tag team matches).

Royal Rumble could've worked with fucking up each other in eliminating because there's no other option in the end, if some of them stand tall as the final few.

He's peaked with that belt before he's even won it. Who will he feud with after The Miz? A freshly turned John Morrison, Ezekiel Jackson when he returns, William Regal! Sounds fairly dull to me.

William Regal vs Bryan Danielson sounds just fine to me. But that's just me. Surely there's other choices as well, I mean Miz have been doing fairly fine has he not?

They could do that. But if you look at all of the guys who usually get proper matches at Mania they're usually well established. Sheamus is an exception, but he feuded with Cena and was WWE champion in the run up to Mania.

True that. But who's to say we can't build Bryan in an establishing way, but keep him defending the championship at Mania?

I just don't see there being a US title match on a Mania card unless it's multi-man or it's held by somebody like Randy Orton.

Multi-man United States championship match could work, especially if Bryan retains, or wins at Mania. I mean that would build some legitimacy ala Kofi Kingston and his crazed retains.

If it wasn't for the tag match I'd have expected him in MITB.

Could've worked as well, yeah. However it could just as well have been the United States championship on the line.

This might be getting out of hand a bit, don't ya think? I'm sure Sam is twisting and turning over the massive non-spam reading going on in here.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

True that, but if WWE wants to feature Bryan Danielson at Wrestlemania, and he's champion, then they'll find a way to do it in a championship match. Don't you think?

No, I think they'll find a match for him. Just not necessarily a US title match.

They could, but they won't. In my opinion.

Miz could be a fresh opponent just as well.

Been done though, hasn't it. Obviously The Miz would be made to look slightly more competitive. But people really wanted to see that feud done properly last year.

Yeah, pretty much the same with Bryan Danielson vs John Cena. One-off Pay Per View match. Not a feud, for now.

I think a Danielson feud could quite easily go on for several months. Cena vs. Bourne would be face vs. face, Bourne is incredibly small and only does high spots. Danielson is also small but he's a lot more versatile. There's more potential between Cena & Bryan. And Bryan winning wouldn't be unbelievable.

So I'm guessing you forgot the John Cena vs Wade Barrett match as well? The one where Wade looked competitive just as well, but never didn't win either?

I remember it, but I don't remember it being competitive. Cena barely let him get any offence, as is often the case when Cena isn't facing bigger stars.

The only reason he's sharing mic duties is because the others would fade into obscurity of in-ring crap and muscles if it wasn't for some microphone time. They all need it, just like CM Punk gave Serena and Gallows microphone time.

Of course, but Barrett doing interviews without people around him seems fairly grim if you ask me.

William Regal vs Bryan Danielson sounds just fine to me. But that's just me. Surely there's other choices as well, I mean Miz have been doing fairly fine has he not?

Miz is a heel, and I'm mostly alone when I think this, but his US title run has been fairly average. The chances of people remembering his feuds with R-Truth & MVP are slim. His reign will probably be remembered for his loss to Bret Hart more than anything else, and that wasn't very good at all.

True that. But who's to say we can't build Bryan in an establishing way, but keep him defending the championship at Mania?

Yeah they could, but again, modern history says they won't bother.

Multi-man United States championship match could work, especially if Bryan retains, or wins at Mania. I mean that would build some legitimacy ala Kofi Kingston and his crazed retains.

ASnother forgettable US title reign. Forgettable matches as well.

Could've worked as well, yeah. However it could just as well have been the United States championship on the line.

Nope, WWE needed to get Big Show & John Morrison on the card.

 

[Ferbian]

No, I think they'll find a match for him. Just not necessarily a US title match.

They could, but they won't. In my opinion.

Of course not necessarily a United States title match. However the possibilities are there.

Been done though, hasn't it. Obviously The Miz would be made to look slightly more competitive. But people really wanted to see that feud done properly last year.

Not worth a mention really. There were barely anything going for that mockery of a feud, as opposed to a Miz vs Cena feud now.

I think a Danielson feud could quite easily go on for several months. Cena vs. Bourne would be face vs. face, Bourne is incredibly small and only does high spots. Danielson is also small but he's a lot more versatile. There's more potential between Cena & Bryan. And Bryan winning wouldn't be unbelievable.

Yeah, but if we're ignoring the fact that we want to turn Bryan heel, John Cena vs Bryan would've been face vs face just as well. Of course, I'm sure if this idea spewed the Internet, the IWC would want John to turn heel though.

Of course Bryan winning it wouldn't be unbelievable, but it sure as hell wouldn't be something I'd place money on, certainly not now.

I remember it, but I don't remember it being competitive. Cena barely let him get any offence, as is often the case when Cena isn't facing bigger stars.

I'm not sure you do, Jake. Wade got more than enough offense in on John Cena, enough to at least come off just a bit competitive and legitimate. But the end result was obvious, however the end result for Bryan vs Batista was just as obvious.

Of course, but Barrett doing interviews without people around him seems fairly grim if you ask me.

All an opinion. I tend to like it however.

Miz is a heel, and I'm mostly alone when I think this, but his US title run has been fairly average. The chances of people remembering his feuds with R-Truth & MVP are slim. His reign will probably be remembered for his loss to Bret Hart more than anything else, and that wasn't very good at all.

Sure, don't get me wrong. I agree it was average, perhaps even below. Just as well as I agree he probably made it work because he's a heel. However Kofi Kingston as a face made it work more than enough with his roster back then. A roster that has barely changed in terms of opponents available, with the exception of loosing Swagger and Hardy.

Yeah they could, but again, modern history says they won't bother.

True that.

Another forgettable US title reign. Forgettable matches as well.

Arguable. You might have found lack of interest in the matches, however I didn't. It was clear that the match qualities as well as the multiple and often defenses build Kofi towards the point that he'd get to feud with Randy Orton.

Nope, WWE needed to get Big Show & John Morrison on the card.

Like I noted earlier, WWE is obviously focusing on stuffing the Mania card with as many possible talent. That's why the bigger Pay Per Views always get more matches, compared to the smaller Pay Per Views who get fewer matches, because the pay isn't the same as Summerslam, Mania and Royal Rumble.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I want a Coke or some juice. There is no Coke or juice in my home. A conundrum.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Piranha is only on at 7.30 at night around my way, I don't know why. The Sorcerers Apprentice however, is on two screens.

Ferbian, you almost persuaded me to start debating again, almost.

 

[Ferbian]

Well it's a wonderful little concept is it not? I'll gladly accept your challenge for another one whenever you feel the need.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I usually only do it in a piss-take capacity.