Roman Reigns: You cant have it both ways

[JoeMallard]

The 'This is awesome' chant happened at the time the infinitely more over Ambrose was beating up Reigns.

Listen to the audience when Reigns comes face to face with HHH, silence.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Now this isnt really a complaint, but why does Bray Wyatt get away with being booked poorly from the same section of the crowd. Why is the booking of a wrestler an acceptable excuse to not boo the fuck out of their segments for one but not the other

Bray Wyatt has a great character, a lot of charisma, and awesome mic skills.

Roman Reigns has an awful character, no charisma, and terrible mic skills.

 

[ShinChan]

So why not boo the fuck out of whoever beats him. Do the inverse

I would have surely booed Ryback, Kane & Big Show at their win if I would have been there.

The thing is that Bray Wyatt and Roman Reigns arenot comparable enough. Bray has a phsique of big guy and isnot booked as an underdog. Presence of three giants makes him the more fearable person. But Reigns is a power brawler and yet is booked as an underdog? Bryan as underdog is understandable but Reigns! No way!

​

 

[GrandWeezard]

In my opinion Roman Reings is the worst lemon of all time.

 

[Azane]

You can have awesome moments while still knowing that after an awesome match where BRock is carrying the entire thing, Reigns is going to randomly do a Superman Punch and Spear and 1-2-3...

Literally, Reigns gimmick right now is laying around for 60% of a match then making a Superman64 punch into a spear.

I guess the OP doesn't get it, Reigns is boring, sloppy and has a chip on his shoulders knowing he doesn't have to try because he's getting pushed to the moon, he has a shit eating grin that he pops up randomly and he's like the embodiment of entitlement. Something I see a lot is people say "Oh you're exaggerating" when we say Reigns is getting booed out of the build, You can HEAR when they cut the audio down from the crowd when Reigns wins, and it's still a resounding and drowning BOOOOO.

Take away the Mic, stop booking him to only do 2 moves at the end of a match, and stop having everyone else on the roster doing "50/50" booking while reigns gets 95% booking.

They are better off being quiet and dismissive. They are best off walking away and not coming back until they hear that they are getting what they want..

There was a topic a couple weeks ago about Vince making a big speech on "Ratings don't matter" - The fans are walking away in droves, RAW was at an all time low before Royal Rumble and The Network subs aren't anywhere close to the number they expected when they XFL'd their capital into it.

The Fans are screaming, and Vince still has his fingers in his ears going LALALALALA, while Reigns is driving Wrestling's Main audience away.



That being said, that entire match had 2 good spots, the Double Table Powerbomb, the first one, because the 2nd one was overkill, and the Double German Suplex on Roman w/ Ambrose in the Fireman's Carry position. The Lewd chant for the Suplex was the first time I've agree'd with that chant this year. The other "This is awesome" chant is that thing they do now, even during smackdown divas matches, It's a pointless chat ruined by the masses who weren't alive when WWF had a real Anything could happen atmosphere, not anything can happen, as long as Roman wins.


It also didn't help that R-truth vs Curtis Axel stole the show as the secondary main event! (Did they really book that as 2nd to last hoping that the 3 way match wouldn't get heat for being a bland followup?)

 

[Mustang Sally]

But Roman Reigns IS NOT OVER AS A MAIN EVENT TALENT. If you think otherwise, you're insane.

Count me as one of the insane. I think he's done fine in main event matches, both in performance and fan reception. Sure, there are going to be boos; that's the way things are today and......most unfortunately.....a lot of it has come about because of the success of John Cena.

That's right....his success. Today, it's 'in' to boo a guy based on factors other than how he performs in the ring and on the mic. I believe most fans are just going along with whatever they see other fans doing, so some are cheering and both are booing; much of it having nothing to do with Roman himself.

So be it. All Reigns can do is what he can do. He has tons of people rooting for him despite the naysayers: "Everybody hates Roman!" being yelled at the same time as "Everybody loves Roman!"

He can have it both ways.....because it exists both ways.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

The "This is Awesome" chant wasn't directed at Roman Reigns. It's literally that simple.

 

[Navi]

I heard one "This is Awesome" chant, but admittedly before the match even came on the crowd was quiet. I don't know if that was natural or if they muted the mic's down.

I did see people yelling, but couldn't hear what they were saying. If you have to limit the crowd noise because of fans booing or something like that, then is the person you hand picked really the right person. Heard the pop for Ambrose, for Reigns it was strangely quiet. I left the room for a few minutes to get something and had to ask if he was out yet.

 

[saint_edward]

Roman Reigns. He's 6" 3 and 265lb, he is categorically NOT an underdog. If he's a badass motherf*cker fighting a machine that's trying to keep him down then he's cheered. He's cheered when he's kicking ass instead of explaining why, yet again, "You can believe that...". He's got the look and the ability but this isn't Daniel Bryan or Rey Mysterio, the guy's a freakin' powerhouse and we're meant to think he can't do it? He was the enforcer in the Shield and he's gone toe to toe with some of the best the 'E has to offer. He gets cheered when he's more like his Shield persona. Stop him bitching and whining, let him kick the crap out of people and talk when he needs to and he'll be cheered. Look at his last title win. They lapped it up, because it worked. We don't hate Reigns, we hate the obvious repeated storyline that Daniel Bryan did so, so well.

We know that (mostly) you go to the top because that's what they've decided. But when it feels this forced it gets boo'd. It'd be the same for anyone in the same position.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Roman Reigns is never going to be accepted as a main event talent until he learns to work a match. Out of every guy in history WWE has pushed to be THE top guy in the industry, Reigns is the worst worker. By far. He simply can't work a match. He does nothing but lay around, throw a few punches, lay around, then hit a Wussyman Punch, flip the hair, Spear. That's it. He CAN'T WRESTLE and hasn't had a single good match since the split of The Shield. If WWE wants Reigns to get over, teach him to wrestle.

 

[Coco]

FWIW I'm quoting you milenko because your post expresses all the views i expected to get

Implying that you have no interest in responding to views you were unable to anticipate?

Rumble '14. I was present in Pittsburgh and when it was down to Reigns and Batista, the place went insane for Reigns. Every. Damn. Person. And I truly doubt it started and ended in that arena. People at home were holding on to hope Batista was going to be the one to go over that rope. Point being... a place isn't going to cheer that loud for a guy that would just be "the lesser of two evils." You aren't. So don't even pretend you would get that into a guy just because he wasn't Batista. So when Reigns was the guy left standing, you all KNEW he was the hand-picked guy.

If we're going to take isolated reactions and make them out to be coronations for future headliners, why was Santino never a headliner? The reactions he received at the 2011 Rumble and 2012 Elimination Chamber would justify it using your standard.

So I get what the OP is saying. It's like going to school and talking about how lame playing Call of Duty is in front of all your friends because you don't want to be ridiculed... then run home and plop your ass in front of the PS4 and play it for hours when nobody is watching. Except in this case... every Mf'er in the building is watching because they're cheering Reigns at the EXACT same time you are and don't want to be in the unpopular minority. Yet you cheer Reigns at the Rumble in 14, at Payback 14, boo him at the Rumble in 15, cheer him after TLC ends, cheer him the night after TLC, boo him at the Rumble in 16, etc... And who knows what else in between. The proof is there whether you like it or not.

My emotional reaction the the product is not inelastic. Context matters. Sometimes I want Reigns. Sometimes I want other things. There's nothing disingenuous about that. Taste is fluid and subject to a slew of variables.

 

[Noshowers]

Just like with Labar's ridiculous article, this notion that "Babyfaces will just get boo'ed and is now par for the course" is not a FACT. Just because people say it does not make it true. The fans choose faces and heels. Fans cheer and boo who they want. Austin won 3 Royal Rumbles and played off the same tropes Roman did. Jumped by HHH, bloodied and laid at ringside for 30 minutes, then hopped back in and eliminated Kane who had been in there for 50 minutes and eliminated 11 people himself earlier. We still cheered Austin.

Roman is arguably one of the better heels right now in WWE history, he can make anyone in a match. The crowd would cheer wildly for a Bo Dallas victory and he would be a made man. Just imagine if HHH beat Roman this Wrestlemania. The crowd would universally be 100% with HHH and he would get the biggest pop in history. Of course that isn't going to happen, but Roman would single handedly turn the Game into a crowd favorite overturning decades of work. We haven't seen heat like Roman has since Muhammad Hassan. This is not par for the course.

Eventually people need to stop trying to sound smart like they are a WWE exec. Oh it's in the plan, the merch sales and it's the Internet fans infiltrating the live arenas at every Raw Location and it's just people who want to boo the wrestlers they are "supposed" to like etc etc.

What about your opinion? Do you like Roman? If yes, lay out your argument and accept there is another side of it. Right now the majority is with people who do not like him in his current booking and packaging as evident by the LWC (Live wrestling community). Accept these facts

Do you think it is right for you as a fan to have to watch a match where the bad guy in Roman continually wins beating your favorite? How long are you willing to accept that before you had enough and really want the wrestlers you like to win? Roman has more in common with the Miz then John Cena at this point.

 

[justinept]

Not defending their decisions at all. The way reigns has been booked has been inconsistent (at best) but the guy was getting insane pops with the shield, even when the other two weren't around. Has gotten pops since, why they dont continue down that path is beyond me

Continue down what path? Look at The Shield for what it was. Reigns was the enforcer/muscle. Ambrose was the mouthpiece. And Rollins was there in case someone needed to get pinned cleanly. (This one needs some elaboration...)

So where does that leave The Shield members in the aftermath of the group dismantling. Ambrose can carry himself because he can talk. But Reigns is basically the group muscle with no group. The only way for Reigns to continue down the same path would've been for him to get another group. Outside that option, he needed to adapt. The problem is that he's failed to do that.

Even worse, he's the only one in that group that didn't adapt to the new circumstances. He kept the same ring attire, the same music, the same entrance. Sub out the triple powerbomb for a superman punch, and the guy is no different than he was back in 2013.

So why can't he adapt? It's simple. He lacks the ability to talk on the mic, and while he's not nearly as bad in the ring as most want to believe, he's never going to be a guy who can get by on in-ring ability. He basically has one thing going for him - his look. That was fine in 2013 when he was a part of a group. Hell, it was fine in 2014 when he started his post-Shield career. But it's been three years since arrived, and two years since he's been on his own. He needs to find an identity that's more than just a look.


*As for the Rollins thing. The Shield didn't lose a ton of matches while they were together, but when they lost cleanly, it seemed to always be Rollins with his shoulders pinned to the mat. Even Ambrose never really lost the IC Title in a real match - and though it was Reigns who took the pin when The Shield lost the tag titles, that was due to a Big Show knockout punch.

If my memory serves me correctly (sometimes, it doesn't), I believe this is one of the reasons people were so shocked that Rollins was the first guy in the group to be pushed. Most were certain that it would be Reigns, and then, eventually, Ambrose would likely get a shot. I think we all thought Rollins would just be left behind in their dust. And then boom... He turns on the group and wins the WWE Title before any of them.

 

[FromTheSouth]

The "This is Awesome" chant wasn't directed at Roman Reigns. It's literally that simple.

What a great point!

I love how you backed it up with empirical and anecdotal data.

Anyway, Reigns has fallen victim to being the only main event face in the company right now. I know that people are clamoring for Ambrose, but how exactly does that work when he wins? Ambrose is not effective being chased, he's effective chasing. At some point, he will have a couple of Jeff Hardy-esque one month reigns as the top guy, but you do not end Wrestlemania with a one month champion. Daniel Bryan, traditionally, would have been one of those champs, but his battles with the Authority would have allowed them to throw challengers at him for a while. Ambrose has been ancillary to all of the Authority storylines, but not a direct target of the Authroty's wrath.

Reigns downfall is not his in-ring ability. That is the WWE Main Event style. Daniel Bryamn was an outlier and Finn Balor will be when he gets to that spot. Watch HBK's title matches vs. HBK's midcard matches. The flippy shit was on the other matches. He adapted to brawling (with a few high spots to tide over his fans) when it was time.

Reigns downfall is not his lack of mic skills. He's acceptable on the mic and he is leagues better than he was a year and a half ago. His backstage "quick-hitter" promos are much better than his in-ring promos. If he can get the in-ring 5-10 minutes soliloquy promos up to the level of the 2-3 minute back stage stuff, he'll be fine.

Reigns downfall is not even his booking. HHH was always over with the live crowds, no matter his face/heel allegiance. We always knew he was Vince's guy. The internet felt he was burying everyone and hated him for a time, but the live crowds popped time and again.

Reigns downfall is his inevitability. He has the look, the lineage, and the endorsement to be the guy. That was apparent from their first powerbomb on Ryback. Reigns stood in the middle, stood tallest, and he was the one laid waste to Ryback. He is the one who kept the identity of the shield - Rollins and Ambrose changed. It was all all about him from the get go.

Sometimes he's cheered, sometimes he's booed, but he always gets a reaction. The same goes for Cena. Today's WWE superstars aren't judged based on whether they're getting the desired reaction, they're judged based on whether they're getting A reaction. WWE has to take it from there.

I do agree that he needs to be a monster heel. He should have been the one to join the authority and turn on Rollins and Ambrose. That would have gone over better. He could then make the face turn and reform the shield, and before I venture off into fantasy booking - ended the authority and retired HHH at this year's Wrestlemania.

 

[d_henderson1810]

All we've seen is more and more proof that he CAN'T go in the ring. Roman Reigns has proven that he is an absolutely atrocious wrestler. He can't work a match. He's not Braun Strowman bad, but he's not that far off. He's HORRIBLE. Reigns hasn't had a single decent match since going on his own.

Roman Reigns would be fine as a midcard talent, and nobody would boo him. But Roman Reigns IS NOT OVER AS A MAIN EVENT TALENT. If you think otherwise, you're insane. Fans are not going to accept him as a main event superstar.

Funny how you all loved the guy, and wanted him as a main eventer when he was in the Shield.

But you ONLY turned on him when it came out that Vince was pushing him, rather than a guy with a third-world child who panders to the crowd like Daniel Bryan does. It is the mentality of "if Vince pushes someone, we will boo him, because we know better than him". It is the mentality of clueless fans who think they have the first clue what sells and how to run a wrestling company better than someone who is a proven success.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Funny how you all loved the guy, and wanted him as a main eventer when he was in the Shield.

But you ONLY turned on him when it came out that Vince was pushing him, rather than a guy with a third-world child who panders to the crowd like Daniel Bryan does. It is the mentality of "if Vince pushes someone, we will boo him, because we know better than him". It is the mentality of clueless fans who think they have the first clue what sells and how to run a wrestling company better than someone who is a proven success.

Wrong. I said from day one of the Shield that Roman had potential to be a main eventer EVENTUALLY. In fact I think I specifically mentioned that he should be headlining by WrestleMania 34. But WWE ruined him forever by pushing him to the top years before he was ready. He'll never, ever recover from it.

 

[JoeMallard]

Funny how you all loved the guy, and wanted him as a main eventer when he was in the Shield.

But you ONLY turned on him when it came out that Vince was pushing him, rather than a guy with a third-world child who panders to the crowd like Daniel Bryan does. It is the mentality of "if Vince pushes someone, we will boo him, because we know better than him". It is the mentality of clueless fans who think they have the first clue what sells and how to run a wrestling company better than someone who is a proven success.

I've hated Reigns since day one, even before the internet said he was Vince's guy. I knew he was going to be pushed to the top, because he's related to Rock, has long beautiful hair and has some big sexy muscles. The guy is charismatic as a chalkboard. He's not bad in the ring, but everything else just flat out sucks, he can't even remember his lines half the time. If he disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't give a shit, the company would be better off. Give me Cena any day of the week!

 

[A11oftheLights]

Bray Wyatt has a great character, a lot of charisma, and awesome mic skills.

Roman Reigns has an awful character, no charisma, and terrible mic skills.

As I've already said elsewhere, if you boo reigns for winning why would you not do the same to Wyatt losing?

 

[Pedigree1]

Unfortunately in this binary world,we can have it both ways. Sad but true. Roman is one helluva of an athlete. No one can doubt that. Moves like a Middleweight. But the WWE is constantly shoving him down our throats,and the audience is not stupid.

He is boring,and has little charisma and I am being nice about it.. He has one catch saying #BelieveThat and thats ok i guess. But having Roman as the face of the company,you have to have it all and he doesn not. He lacks the the most important part and that is,the connection part with the audience. He heard cheers last night,but that was for Ambrose and Lesnar.

He deserves his spot,yes no doubt but don't shove him down our throats.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Wrong. I said from day one of the Shield that Roman had potential to be a main eventer EVENTUALLY. In fact I think I specifically mentioned that he should be headlining by WrestleMania 34. But WWE ruined him forever by pushing him to the top years before he was ready. He'll never, ever recover from it.

Okay, give the exact day, date and minute where you think pushing Roman Reigns would have been exactly the right time.

You dislike Roman because you CHOOSE to. I wouldn't have mattered when it happened, because it is Vince pushing Roman, rather than the fans.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Okay, give the exact day, date and minute where you think pushing Roman Reigns would have been exactly the right time.

You dislike Roman because you CHOOSE to. I wouldn't have mattered when it happened, because it is Vince pushing Roman, rather than the fans.

If Reigns had remained a midcard guy for another several years, won the 2018 Royal Rumble, and headlined WrestleMania 34, it would have gone down fine. Skyrocketing guys to the top NEVER works in the long run. Reigns is the latest and biggest example, but there have been many others.

 

[hollowpoint]

I remember one guy that was skyrocketed from day one. He was dubbed the "Blue Chipper" from the announcers on his debut. Eventually the crowd turned on him and he in turn, turned that disapproval into a great charismatic character in which is to the day one of the most electrifying in sports and entertainment. His name slips my mind though.

The point of the story is it's up to Roman to take control of how he's booked. Not so much on the decision making process, but definitely the creative part in terms of allowing him to say what he wants on the mic. it's hard to believe in the words that he spews out because they sound so scripted and unoriginal. What gives you control of the crowd is your work on the mic. It's how the likes of HHH, CM Punk, Ric Flair, Y2J, that guy whose name I can't remember, the list goes on and on. They all had the ability to sway the crowd whatever way they wanted to because they were original and , for the most part, genuine. Roman needs to take a couple of pages out of those books.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Funny how you all loved the guy, and wanted him as a main eventer when he was in the Shield

But you ONLY turned on him when it came out that Vince was pushing him, rather than a guy with a third-world child who panders to the crowd like Daniel Bryan does. It is the mentality of "if Vince pushes someone, we will boo him, because we know better than him". It is the mentality of clueless fans who think they have the first clue what sells and how to run a wrestling company better than someone who is a proven success.

The fans have the right to decided who they like and who they don't like.

You dislike Roman because you CHOOSE to.

I like Daniel Bryan because I CHOOSE to. I like Dean Ambrose because I CHOOSE to. I can like and dislike who I CHOOSE.

Regardless of what you think the fans have a right to CHOOSE who they like and don't.

 

[d_henderson1810]

If Reigns had remained a midcard guy for another several years, won the 2018 Royal Rumble, and headlined WrestleMania 34, it would have gone down fine. Skyrocketing guys to the top NEVER works in the long run. Reigns is the latest and biggest example, but there have been many others.

Midcard for SEVERAL years? What if everyone had to start on the midcard for several years.

Hell, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin would never have been WWE Champion and the face of the company, if he had to wait several years first. He would have retired before he got the chance.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

There is a world of difference between being putting on good matches and earning your spot and quite frankly Roman hasn't earned his spot with the fans. Everyone knows Roman got handed his spot, I don't blame him for that (why wouldn't he take it when it's offered to him?) but much like Lex Luger (who had the look Vince prefers) they forgot the part where Reigns actually wins over the fans.

That's where the issue in lies, instead of giving the fans a reason to care they just simply told them to care and because of that it's not gonna matter how many good matches he puts on. There is a ton of guys who put on nothing but good matches but never really got over but the difference between them and Reigns is they aren't at the top of the card getting back to back main events at Wrestlemania.

Matches are a dance, it takes 2 (or more) to tango so it's really not fair to expect fans to like Reigns because he has some good matches under his belt. Reigns hasn't gotten over on his own merit yet and until that happens you can't expect the fans to magically care and cheer for the guy.