ROH Sold

[Thriller Ant]

Last ROH show I watched was a few years ago. And it was only because someone else brought it for me. It was just like watching a ton of X-Division matches over and over and over and over and over again. Is there really a measurable amount of people really entertained by a bunch of characterless flying monkeys who do nothing but try to kill each other?

You like Wade Barrett. You're opinion on in-ring wrestling is irrelevant.

Prior to this sale, where could you watch ROH? Online only? I've gone on Youtube, and checked out individual matches, but I have no idea where they were airing the shows, like, last week/month/whatever. Just curious.

Basically, since the HDNet show ended, you could either go to live events or order the DVDs. The live events, in my opinion, blow WWE shows out of the water as far as atmosphere and in-ring quality and the DVDs are $20, but they have some kind of sale on them at least once a month.

To build storylines outside of shows, they also have the Newswire, which announces matches for upcoming shows and talks a bit about feuds, about once a week and the Videowire, which has taped promos from the guys talking about their upcoming matches and current feud, also once a week.

 

[a0161613]

You like Wade Barrett. You're opinion on in-ring wrestling is irrelevant.

 

[X]

Barrett is pretty shit, this is true.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

You like Wade Barrett. You're opinion on in-ring wrestling is irrelevant.

The live events, in my opinion, blow WWE shows out of the water as far as atmosphere and in-ring quality

The few matches I have seen, Joe vs. Punk from 2004, Joe vs. Daniels (no idea what the show was called), McGuinness vs. Daniels (2006, I think), were good. I've watched probably 20-30 matches, granted those really only involved either Styles, Joe, Wolfe (Nigel, whatever you want to call him) and Daniels.

The "map" shows it will be available in my area, so I'll give it a shot. However, I'm into storylines and angles as much as I am in-ring action, so I'm not sure how invested I'll actually get.

 

[X]

The "map" shows it will be available in my area, so I'll give it a shot. However, I'm into storylines and angles as much as I am in-ring action, so I'm not sure how invested I'll actually get.

ROH's booking and focus on feuds/angles is actually very good, sometimes better than WWE even now that they have Delirious as the booker. Feuds progress logically and at a nice pace, and they actually build to their big matches instead of blowing their load at every show they do. Take for example the feud developing between Davey Richards and the champ Eddie Edwards right now. These two were tag team partners for many years as the American Wolves until both broke off into singles competition a year ago. They wrestled each other in the finals of the TV title tournament and Eddie defeated Davey in what was seen as a big upset. Since then all the fans have been dying for Davey to get the world title, and he kept coming closer and closer to winning the title from Roderick Strong, but he wasn't able to. Then in March Eddie Edwards got his first title shot, and won the title in probably the most shocking title win ROH history. Since then Davey and Eddie have re-united off and on to wrestle a few tag team matches, and in each one of those matches the seeds have been sown for their eventual feud as they accidentally cost each other a match each. Davey has never been able to defeat his partner, so add that with the long, slow build they're doing and his title win is going to be one of the biggest moments in ROH history. The way they're waiting and building anticipation for Davey's eventual title win is pretty brilliant, complex stuff for wrestling these days. You rarely see long-term old school booking like this anymore, and I'm a fan of it. I imagine Davey winning the title eventually might just wind up being the biggest pop in the history of the company. Add in the great in-ring action and ROH is one of my favorite promotions in the world for all of these reasons.

 

[Thriller Ant]

The few matches I have seen, Joe vs. Punk from 2004, Joe vs. Daniels (no idea what the show was called), McGuinness vs. Daniels (2006, I think), were good. I've watched probably 20-30 matches, granted those really only involved either Styles, Joe, Wolfe (Nigel, whatever you want to call him) and Daniels.

The "map" shows it will be available in my area, so I'll give it a shot. However, I'm into storylines and angles as much as I am in-ring action, so I'm not sure how invested I'll actually get.

I can keep an eye out on sales if you are interested and recommend some DVDs. I'm pretty sure all of them have the Videowires building up to the show as special features, so you can watch them and then watch to show to see how they go about building feuds and such.

 

[Thriller Ant]

X, have you read/heard the results from Supercard last night? It was a great show.

 

[X]

X, have you read/heard the results from Supercard last night? It was a great show.

Just finished reading them actually. Saw that at the end of the show Eddie said he wants to prove to himself that he can beat Davey again and said he'd quit if Davey didn't face him, then they shook hands and I guess that makes the match official now? Awesome. Sounded like a great show from the live report I read. You were there, right? Thoughts on the show?

 

[justinsayne]

I think the last ROH show I watched had Christian Cage in the ME... or maybe it was the one with MCMG/AOTF, I can't remember, it all just kinda runs together

 

[Thriller Ant]

Just finished reading them actually. Saw that at the end of the show Eddie said he wants to prove to himself that he can beat Davey again and said he'd quit if Davey didn't face him, then they shook hands and I guess that makes the match official now? Awesome. Sounded like a great show from the live report I read. You were there, right? Thoughts on the show?

Yep. The Cole/O'Reilly vs. Bravados match might of been my MOTFH (match of the first half), right up there with Davey vs. Haas. It was a fun match that let all 4 show off. The only blemish was that one of the Bravados got legit fucked up and couldn't take the finisher right, and that really hurt the ending. Hero and Generico was a good match with some comedy, Homicide and Elgin was just what you'd expect.

Bennett and Corino was fun with Corino messing with the ref, but Bennett getting the win. Jimmy fucking Jacobs came out from the crowd during the pre-match promo and was revealed as Corino's sponsor. I posted a thread about this, but I am pumped to see him back. A couple douches near me started heckling him during his promo, but I was fine with it.

Haas and Davey was pretty good. They had a spot where they traded giving each other German suplexes, and between the two of them there were at least 20 in a row. Haas botched the alarm clock and Haas of Pain.

Benjamin and Claudio was another good match with an awesome ending. I would pay to see those two do a decathlon against each other with how athletic they both are.

Cabana and Daniels was very good, with Colt keeping the comedy to a minimum and them focusing on a solid match.

The Briscoes and ANX, wow. Jay came out wearing this mask/bandana thing of a skull face and you could only see his eyes. That was the first time a wrestler terrified me since I was 8 and Meng was killing people with his Tongan Death Grip. Mark went through the timekeeper's table within 3 minutes of the bell ringing, from a belly-to-back suplex over the top rope from King. Everyone but Kenny bled, there were tables, chairs, chains, a fire extinguisher, a ladder, and the metal signage on the barricades all used. The finish was perfect to make ANX look good, as Jay literally just collapses onto Rhett, who kicked out just after 3. It was awesome.

Roderick and Eddie was a good match, but I think it suffered from having to follow the street fight. Roderick dominated the match, before they started trading the big moves at the end. It was a very good match, but nothing overly spectacular. Some guys were chanting 5 star match afterwards, but I'd say more 4-4 1/4 range. And then Davey came out to save Eddie from the HoT attack and you read the rest.

The place was so hot for Cornette at the start talking about the sale and it exploded when he said that the first tapings are going to be in Chicago. I actually saw some people leave as soon as he said tickets were there to buy theirs.

Overall, it was a very good show that I highly recommend.

 

[The Bearded One]

ROH's booking and focus on feuds/angles is actually very good, sometimes better than WWE even now that they have Delirious as the booker. Feuds progress logically and at a nice pace, and they actually build to their big matches instead of blowing their load at every show they do. Take for example the feud developing between Davey Richards and the champ Eddie Edwards right now. These two were tag team partners for many years as the American Wolves until both broke off into singles competition a year ago. They wrestled each other in the finals of the TV title tournament and Eddie defeated Davey in what was seen as a big upset. Since then all the fans have been dying for Davey to get the world title, and he kept coming closer and closer to winning the title from Roderick Strong, but he wasn't able to. Then in March Eddie Edwards got his first title shot, and won the title in probably the most shocking title win ROH history. Since then Davey and Eddie have re-united off and on to wrestle a few tag team matches, and in each one of those matches the seeds have been sown for their eventual feud as they accidentally cost each other a match each. Davey has never been able to defeat his partner, so add that with the long, slow build they're doing and his title win is going to be one of the biggest moments in ROH history. The way they're waiting and building anticipation for Davey's eventual title win is pretty brilliant, complex stuff for wrestling these days. You rarely see long-term old school booking like this anymore, and I'm a fan of it. I imagine Davey winning the title eventually might just wind up being the biggest pop in the history of the company. Add in the great in-ring action and ROH is one of my favorite promotions in the world for all of these reasons.

I agree. I really like their storylines as mucha s the matches. They're simple and they make sense. But I hope Eddie beats Davey and retains the belt. I've been off the DR bandwagon for a while now and Eddie has been a favorite of mine since he competed in the Ladder War with a broken arm. So hopefully Eddie pulls it out, or at the very least it's a time limit draw.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

You like Wade Barrett. You're opinion on in-ring wrestling is irrelevant.

Eh. At least more than 10 people on this forum has heard of and has watched Wade Barrett,

(Good one. )

 

[X]

Eh. At least more than 10 people on this forum has heard of and has watched Wade Barrett,

(Good one. )

Your opinion on ROH is irrelevant because you've seen one show. To judge an entire promotion's past, present, and future based off of one show is so stupid that I'm surprised you didn't realize how dumb you sounded by just making your initial post. That would be like watching King of the Ring 1995 and saying "Oh, well, that WWE company sure does suck, how does anyone like that crap blah blah blah" etc. It's beyond ******ed. You can't judge any television series solely off of one episode.

Is that better? The fact that you love Wade Barrett is just bad taste but we're all entitled to it.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Eh. At least more than 10 people on this forum has heard of and has watched Wade Barrett,

(Good one. )

Yes, because the number of people that are fans of something really determines the quality. Do you have anything of quality to say, or are you just going to keep using fucking dumb ass arguments?

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes, because the number of people that are fans of something really determines the quality.

It doesn't? Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept and theory of pro wrestling.

 

[Thriller Ant]

It doesn't? Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept and theory of pro wrestling.

Give ROH a head start of a few decades and a budget the size of WWE's and even if the product doesn't change an iota from what it is now, ROH would be the huge company and WWE would be searching for TV deals. That argument makes sense if everyone is on a level playing field, which they aren't.

 

[Slyfox696]

Give ROH a head start of a few decades and a budget the size of WWE's and even if the product doesn't change an iota from what it is now, ROH would be the huge company and WWE would be searching for TV deals. That argument makes sense if everyone is on a level playing field, which they aren't.

That's the lamest excuse in the world. If I'm not mistaken, ROH held their first show before TNA, and TNA is MILES beyond them.

ROH will NEVER be a big promotion until they change their promoting style. It doesn't matter how much money they put into the promotion or how long it's around, it will never be a big promotion until they change the way they promote, or until society itself changes dramatically.

 

[Thriller Ant]

That's the lamest excuse in the world. If I'm not mistaken, ROH held their first show before TNA, and TNA is MILES beyond them.

ROH will NEVER be a big promotion until they change their promoting style. It doesn't matter how much money they put into the promotion or how long it's around, it will never be a big promotion until they change the way they promote, or until society itself changes dramatically.

TNA also has a much, much bigger budget than ROH.Their promoting style has been perfect for a company of their size and means. I'm not naive enough to think that ROH will be selling out massive arenas or anything, but saying that they will never be more than a small niche company is ridiculous.

 

[Slyfox696]

TNA also has a much, much bigger budget than ROH.

Better business. They found a big financial backer before ROH could, and honestly, ROH still hasn't. But since ROH has now sold out, you can't say there's any difference between the two companies, and so, all comparison are now equal, and TNA has just done better.

but saying that they will never be more than a small niche company is ridiculous.

Really? They've been the same promotion for over 9 years now (with only slight modifications to promoting style), what makes you think they're going to change?

 

[Thriller Ant]

Really? They've been the same promotion for over 9 years now (with only slight modifications to promoting style), what makes you think they're going to change?

ROH has grown a ton since the company started without making any major changes. With a new deal to increase exposure, why wouldn't that continue?

 

[Slyfox696]

ROH has grown a ton since the company started without making any major changes.

They've grown "a ton"? Do elaborate. When I think of growing "a ton" I think of more than a small-time regional promotion who could barely pay the bills.

With a new deal to increase exposure, why wouldn't that continue?

What is this "increase exposure"? Does no one pay any attention to facts? There is not increased exposure. They'll be lucky to be broadcast in 50 cities, basically nothing west of Missouri, not in any major TV markets, and will be on a night and time when most people in their age demographic is out partying with friends.

What is this "increased exposure" you're referring to?

 

[Gelgarin]

TNA also has a much, much bigger budget than ROH.Their promoting style has been perfect for a company of their size and means. I'm not naive enough to think that ROH will be selling out massive arenas or anything, but saying that they will never be more than a small niche company is ridiculous.

Ever stop to wonder 'why' TNA has a bigger budget. I mean, it's been ten years now and TNA have been given access to huge piles of money from multiple sources, whilst nobody of any kind of significance has come forward to invest anything into RoH. There are plenty of potential investors out there yet for some reason whilst they are willing to pump money into TNA, they won't touch RoH. I suspect it has something to do with TNA being able to show them physical evidence that their product actually draws and can make legitimate money.

Oh; and don't think this network is going to put money in, even is the SBG diverted 100% of their current revenue into Ring of Honor it would make little to no difference because the network itself is barely making money. I very much doubt that the network will invest anything outside of the absolute bare minimum, it certainly seems to be their way of doing business, at least according to the here-say of the internet.

Ring of Honour WILL almost certainly never be anything but a small niche product. Their product (or aspects thereof) has existed for decades and has at no point shows any potential to draw on a national scale inside the US. It's no difference to CZW or one of those porn wrestling promotions in that regard, an obscure niche product that fans love and everyone else is indifferent to.

Short of Ring of Honour completly changing direction and ceasing to be Ring of Honour anymore I can see not one shred of evidence to suggest that the company will ever compete on a national stage. I doubt the people running it delude themselves otherwise to tell the truth.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Yes, because the number of people that are fans of something really determines the quality. Do you have anything of quality to say, or are you just going to keep using fucking dumb ass arguments?

So, what if those 10 people I mentioned think ROH is the greatest great thing ever. Are these 10 people going to shell out the thousands of dollars it takes to run ROH once a month or however many shows they do?


ROH might of been nice for those who didn't care for the WWE's "bullshit" at the time. However, you need to appeal to more than just a small niche to be considered a success. If you want ROH to stay around, you might want to try to sell people on the product than be so damn defensive about it. It has nothing to do with me being a Wade Barrett mark or anti-indy spotfests. It is just common business sense.


And for the record, how many different head bookers/top has ROH gone through? I am curious because off the top of my head, I got 3 bookers and a list of "top" guys. Talk about instability.

 

[Slyfox696]

And for the record, how many different head bookers/top has ROH gone through? I am curious because off the top of my head, I got 3 bookers and a list of "top" guys. Talk about instability.

To be fair, the news reports I read never stated if Feinstein planned to top or bottom for his 14 year old boy.

 

[Thriller Ant]

They've grown "a ton"? Do elaborate. When I think of growing "a ton" I think of more than a small-time regional promotion who could barely pay the bills.

They have hundreds, and sometimes even over 1,000 people at live events, have a successful DVD business, secured a TV deal, and secure enough Internet pay-per-view buys to continue and expand that aspect of their business.

What is this "increase exposure"? Does no one pay any attention to facts? There is not increased exposure. They'll be lucky to be broadcast in 50 cities, basically nothing west of Missouri, not in any major TV markets, and will be on a night and time when most people in their age demographic is out partying with friends.

What is this "increased exposure" you're referring to?

A broadcast TV deal in cities outside of the usual touring cities is increased exposure. You can shit all over the time slot, outlets, and amount of stations as much as you want, but it will still be more accessible to most people because it is on broadcast rather than cable. Add in the increased Internet presence of the TV show and the potential expansion of Sinclair and this will increase exposure.