Randy Orton's backstage influences

[Ferbian]

As a lot of you guys probably know, Randy Orton is highly praised backstage, seen as one of the future cornerstones of WWE, and therefore has a strong influence backstage, looking back to the fact that he's probably the key note to what got Mr. Kennedy fired, and I would even go as far as to guessing that Randy Orton could perhaps be the key behind why we're seeing Kofi Kingston shuffling around in the mid-card quite boldly, doing shit, nothing.

My reason to believing that Randy Orton is the cause of Kofi Kingston's booking as of late is that if you remember, back when John Cena, Randy Orton and Kofi Kingston were in a triple thread to name the number 1 contender for the WWE title match vs Sheamus at the Royal Rumble, Randy Orton having Kofi Kingston on the ground, seemingly preparing for a punt (and I know we've had this discussion before) where it seems Randy got annoyed with Kofi getting up too soon, hence ending it in an RKO instead.

And to top it off, Shawn Michaels noted to Sheamus that he should step lightly around Randy Orton because of his popularity and praise backstage, and being seen as the best in-ring worker right now.

So I ask you, will Randy Orton perhaps become the next Triple H (as we all know him holding down some talents) and bring a stop to a push for the likes of Kofi Kingston, and perhaps more in the future?

Or is it just an idea of mind I've gotten all of a sudden, and is it just a phase Randy Orton is potentially going through and won't come to a point where Randy will use his influence in the likes to pull his influence to stop putting someone over like Triple H, or use it to get out of jobbing to someone in the likes of Shawn Michaels for Wrestlemania 13?

 

[Unsold Bacon]

I think you might actually have a point here. He might not be able to control himself and become the next Triple H. I actually can see this happening, gosh it must be hard beign young talent. Because it's like 1 little mistake and you will get released or sparingly used.

 

[The Champ]

I don't know what WWE Management's idea of a good in-ring worker is, but it must be much different than mine, as there's no way Orton is the best in-ring worker right now.

With that said, I think it's expected that anyone who's been around as long as Orton has and is a perennial main eventer for like the next ten years would have a fair amount of influence in the back. The Kennedy situation is not solely Orton's fault, if anyone remembers there were other people who went to Management and requested that he be let go because he was an unsafe worker. I don't really know the story with Kofi, but I'm sure that he'll be able to bounce back because it seems like WWE has a good amount of faith in him.

Even Triple H really gets way too much shit around here and on the internet in general for "holding people down," but Orton certainly shouldn't be smashed for a couple instances that aren't as big of deals as they're made out to be.

 

[Ferbian]

I don't know what WWE Management's idea of a good in-ring worker is, but it must be much different than mine, as there's no way Orton is the best in-ring worker right now.

It's not creative, it's the actual locker room, at least that's what the article on our front page said, and I will quote:

That's as big of a part of this story as anything, because a lot of the locker room really likes Randy because he has stood up when the time's right, and also because they all feel he's truly the best in the ring right now

And if you feel the need to read the whole Article, link:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/exclusive-hbksheamus-encounter-post-mania-hbk-update-97859

And I must quote honestly admit I would probably agree quite firmly with Randy Orton, because I really like what he's been doing the past few months, he's definitely one of the greats of WWE right now, and the tweener character he's running will definitely put him out there as one of the future cornerstones of WWE if you ask me.

Edit: Oh and Champy, I'm not saying there's any story to it, just taking my own thoughts out of an idea to why in the world Kofi Kingston isn't doing anything right now, and Randy Orton came to mind instantly, and it shouldn't be coming off as a smashing or talking down on Randy, because I am a fan of his, and I know I shouldn't be one to interfere in what decisions Randy will take backstage, but this is by far not a smashing, it's a thought more than anything else.

 

[LightUnique]

Thats putting too much into it sure he may have backstage influence but to think he would hold kofi down kinda on the not so good a thought side u dont build them up to break em down orton is the type to hold creative in what involves him like with legacy and he didnt think sim snuka and manu fit in so he wanted them out

 

[Arkham Noir]

I don't know what WWE Management's idea of a good in-ring worker is, but it must be much different than mine, as there's no way Orton is the best in-ring worker right now.

I respect your opinon, but Orton is the best in the ring. Sure he isn't as flashy or innovative as some, but have you ever seen him fuck up or injure someone? He executes everything perfectly.

To the original point; Orton is going to be around for a long, long time.He is going to be a main event for at least another ten years. If I were one of the higher ups in the company, I would value Orton.And remember that he is third genration, he knows a fuck load more about the buisness than most will ever know.

He is and will always be very influencial

 

[Ferbian]

To the original point; Orton is going to be around for a long, long time.He is going to be a main event for at least another ten years. If I were one of the higher ups in the company, I would value Orton.And remember that he is third genration, he knows a fuck load more about the buisness than most will ever know.

He is and will always be very influencial

I know Orton will be around for a long time, he just recently turned 30, so 10 year's would definitely be the minimum we can expect to see Randy in the ring, unless something badly screws up and he has a career ending injury.

And I do think Randy Orton is valued highly by the WWE, seeing as he is afterall getting a nice amount of title reigns, and he will definitely not be stopping to gain more any time soon if you ask me.

But that's not really what the thread was about, the thread was mainly about the focus of if Randy Orton will be influential in the way of holding potential talent down cause they fucked up somehow in a match with him, or if he will eventually use his influence to put a deserving talent to good and won't end up holding down a guy like Booker T (at least I believe it was Booker T that was said to be held down) or for that sake push the young ones because he works out with him.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

My best bet would be that Randy had a lot to do with Kofi's downward spiral as of late. I don't know that, but what happened at the end of that triple threat match on Raw seemed pretty real. Orton seemed legitimately pissed off. And maybe he should have been. Maybe Kofi botched up the Punt, we'll never know. But I highly doubt Randy was worried that Kofi freakin' Kingston was going to take his spot, and that's why he helped get him knocked down a few pegs. Maybe Orton just didn't think Kofi was ready for that kind of push. All speculation, we'll never know the truth. Maybe Orton became angry because this was a pattern with Kofi. Once again, we'll never really know.

Or maybe it had to do with creative. Maybe Vince and creative just didn't see it as Kofi's time. I know that is totally unbelievable to all of you Kingston marks out there, but it is possible.

Orton IS the best guy in the ring right now, IMO. And it's not even close. He is clean in the ring. All of his moves are executed perfectly and he is consistently aggresive. That's more than I can say for a lot of guys in the WWE, under the age of 35.

And who has Orton held down?? Even if he did hold Kofi down, it's not like he got him fired. Kofi is a young guy. If his "big" push is meant to be, he has a lot of time to make it happen. I think you are making most of this up in your mind. There is a REASON he is respected backstage. You don't read stories about HHH being as respected as feared. I am guessing Randy wouldn't have a lot of backstage respect if he was constantly trying to hold the younger guys down.

And who are the younger guys? Orton just turned 30. He IS the younger guys. He is in the absolutely prime of his career. Why should he put over someone just to put someone over, at this point in his career? He shouldn't. He can be a bit selfish right, and he should be.

I guess I'm just not seeing what you are seeing. There is no pattern of holding guys down, when it comes to Orton. Will he do that in the future? You never know. But I just don't see the "big conspiracy" happening as you do.

 

[The Champ]

I respect your opinon, but Orton is the best in the ring. Sure he isn't as flashy or innovative as some, but have you ever seen him fuck up or injure someone? He executes everything perfectly.

I think the guy has one of the coolest looking movesets in the business right now, but to me that doesn't equal being the best worker. He's a very good worker, but guys like Cena, Jericho, and Mysterio are all far more consistent in terms of being able to have good to great matches every PPV, and even on weekly TV shows. Undertaker too, it's amazing how that guy can still go at his age and he's always been underrated to me as to how good he is. His Mania matches at X7, X8, 21, and 23-XXVI have all been really good, great, or even classics.

 

[Ferbian]

And who has Orton held down?? Even if he did hold Kofi down, it's not like he got him fired. Kofi is a young guy. If his "big" push is meant to be, he has a lot of time to make it happen. I think you are making most of this up in your mind. There is a REASON he is respected backstage. You don't read stories about HHH being as respected as feared. I am guessing Randy wouldn't have a lot of backstage respect if he was constantly trying to hold the younger guys down.

I'm not saying Randy Orton is holding anybody down or for that sake ever held anybody down, except for the fact that as you agree with me yourself Randy could very well be a part of the reason for Kofi Kingston stumbling around doing shit.
But we have to remember Randy has had temper problems here and there, and it could easily play a role at some point.

And who are the younger guys? Orton just turned 30. He IS the younger guys. He is in the absolutely prime of his career. Why should he put over someone just to put someone over, at this point in his career? He shouldn't. He can be a bit selfish right, and he should be.

There's always a place and time to put someone over if it's good for business, Kofi Kingston would make a fine main eventer, and I'm not saying Randy Orton isn't one of the young guys, but you still have to remember he's already considered somewhat of a veteran, 10 years officially in the business.

But I just don't see the "big conspiracy" happening as you do.

There's no conspiracy going on, I'm just thinking if Randy Orton seeing as he is the respected guy he is backstage, and he does have those temper tantrums that the article I linked earlier talks about, if it could play a role with Orton's decisions and acceptance of certain talent, that's all.

 

[Ferbian]

Cena

weekly TV shows.

Erh, did I miss something? you put John Cena in the ranks of people able to put on a great match.. on weekly television? I don't see it, sorry I just don't, I'm not a John Cena hater, but I will give you this, Randy Orton put on an awesome match this last Monday night against Jack Swagger, and I have my sheer doubts that we'd be praising that match as a potential match of the week if it wasn't Randy Orton but John Cena instead, John and Swagger have met in the ring before, and I must honestly say the match Randy put on, was at least... I said AT LEAST double as good as any of the matches John Cena put on against Swagger.

 

[The Champ]

Cena's match against Swagger on Raw last year, I think it was on the draft show, was better than Orton/Swagger last Monday. But Cena really shines on PPV's more than anything, I really can't even remember the last time the guy had a bad PPV match. That's not a knock on Orton at all, as he has done some great work as of late as well, I just don't agree with him being called the best worker in the WWE when there are at least four guys who I think are above him in that category.

 

[Athena]

Haha, stealth Triple H hate thread detected. Nice try OP, did you think you could slip that by us?

Anyway, I don't understand the hate going on for RKO in this thread, other than "Wahhh I don't like him." He's like HHH in the sense that he is an in-ring mastermind, always carefully plotting out his next move and maneuvering his opponent into a corner. Take a look at his match with Swagger this past monday night on Raw. Since it was actually given longer then 3 minutes, an ironman match by recent Raw standards, it definitely showcase just what an in-ring technician RKO is.

Mr. Kennedy was let go because not only was he plagued by injuries, but he was a danger to other superstars. I don't remember where I read this or if it's true, but I recall reading an article that said the likes of Cena and Batista went to Vince and said they no longer felt safe wrestling with Kennedy. I think that had more impact than any of, according to you, Orton's complaining did.

Kingston is sitting in the mid-card right now not because Orton is bad mouthing him backstage, but it's because that's where he belongs. He has ZERO charisma on the mic, and can't make any connection with the crowd through his promos. Some of the smarks on here constitute "good wrestling" by bouncing off the ropes and jumping around a little (i.e Kofi) but his in ring ability is nowhere near a RKO or even a Swagger.

 

[Greenlight13]

I think you're reading too much into it. Allegedly Randy just shouted at Kennedy backstage and then left it at that and others, including John Cena re-raised the issue. That's what I heard anyway.

We've debated that blown spot with Kofi Kingston back and forth to no end, and the theory that Ted Dibiase failed to get to the ring quickly enough is just as popular as Kofi messing up. They did seem to be stalling for something and when Ted finally arrived they rushed the spot, so Randy could have been just as annoyed at Ted as Kofi. I think Randy and Kofi worked well together and I just don't see Randy getting his push halted.

Also, Shawn telling Sheamus to tread lightly around Randy has nothing to do with Randy, it's just Shawn giving Sheamus some advice surely? It could just as easily mean that other wrestlers like Randy (which seems to be true as he rolls with quite a few people outside of the ring.)

Even if this was all true, his level of power doesn't rival Triple H's. Nobody does. He's on the creative team for all intents and purposes. I'm not dumping on Triple H, because I think he gets more abuse than he merits, but he's in more of a position to wield his influence than Randy, who is simply liked, respected and over as hell.

 

[Ferbian]

Haha, stealth Triple H hate thread detected. Nice try OP, did you think you could slip that by us?

You're kidding me right? I'm a Triple H mark.. my second favorite wrestler next to Shawn Michaels, there's absolutely no hatred towards Triple H, but I'm comparing Randy Orton by a standard that has clearly shown through the years and been highly discussed by the fact that Triple H has very well held people down and gotten a victory here and there where he truly didn't need it.

Anyway, I don't understand the hate going on for RKO in this thread, other than "Wahhh I don't like him."

If this is a reference towards the OP, me, then there's no hatred towards Randy neither, I really love what he's been doing as of late, but it has been verbally proved (in text form!) that Randy has temper problems which could very well have been the cause of Kofi Kingston not doing anything right now, how many times do I need to say this?

Kingston is sitting in the mid-card right now not because Orton is bad mouthing him backstage, but it's because that's where he belongs. He has ZERO charisma on the mic, and can't make any connection with the crowd through his promos. Some of the smarks on here constitute "good wrestling" by bouncing off the ropes and jumping around a little (i.e Kofi) but his in ring ability is nowhere near a RKO or even a Swagger.

While I do agree with you on the mic skills, Kofi Kingston's mic skills has never really caught me on, but Kofi Kingston is an over the average good wrestler if you ask me, he's able to put on some good performances whenever he gets into the ring, he may certainly not be as good as Randy or Jack Swagger, but he's able to put on some good matches.
And if you determine "jumping around" and bouncing off ropes as "bad wrestling" then I guess John Morrison and Rey Mysterio are bad wrestlers too?

 

[marklouis]

Well, Orton will never have as much power as HHH, because HHH is part of the McMahon family. He's going to be running the creative team the minute he retires, if he isn't running it already. Hell, he might take the Mr. McMahon role. Not the exact same character, but the role of the tyrannical boss who the "face" of the company fights. He may even fight Orton, since Orton is now a face himself and they have a history.

I don't know about the issues with Kofi, but I think the WWE screwed up with putting Kofi in a feud with Orton so soon. He should be feuding with the Miz or Drew McIntyre for their belts, and then by next year, he'd be ready to win the Royal Rumble or Money in the Bank match.

 

[Spunky]

I don't think Orton has been "flexing" his politcal muscle, But I reckon he could. He his without a doubt going to a huge part of the main event for years to come, As his moveset allows him have a long career. He is obvisously liked back stage by all the right people.

I think that the whole Mr. Kennedy thing was blown out of proporsion. I remember Orton was supposedly screaming and shouting at Ken, But I remember reading that a backstage member stated that he was calmly reminding Ken that he should be protecting people more.

That in itself will push people to think Orton would have had Kofi's push stopped, But i'm sure the fued was just a filler for Orton. Whereas it was probably a case of testing the water with Kofi. I mean come on, Kofi is hardly main event material at the minute.

 

[The Con Volt]

I honestly don't believe for a second that Randy Orton holds his coworkers down. If you guys remember back when Eugene came back and fought "the Calgary Kid" aka the Miz? Yeah, Eugene had gotten his job BACK because Orton had pushed for his rehire. Then he showed up that night out of shape, so he was gone before he even got started. So my point here is, yes, Orton obviously holds a lot of influence backstage because he was able to bring back IMO the worst character in WWE history. But he actually got him his job back albeit for an hour or so. So why on earth do you think he would hold anything against Kofi, someone with INFINITE more potential?

 

[Ferbian]

I honestly don't believe for a second that Randy Orton holds his coworkers down. If you guys remember back when Eugene came back and fought "the Calgary Kid" aka the Miz? Yeah, Eugene had gotten his job BACK because Orton had pushed for his rehire. Then he showed up that night out of shape, so he was gone before he even got started. So my point here is, yes, Orton obviously holds a lot of influence backstage because he was able to bring back IMO the worst character in WWE history. But he actually got him his job back albeit for an hour or so. So why on earth do you think he would hold anything against Kofi, someone with INFINITE more potential?

First of all, remember the fact that Randy also got annoyed over Nick actually returning completely out of shape?

And secondly, again I'm not saying Randy Orton is holding down anybody, I'm asking IF Randy Orton could go on to be one of those people because of the temper problems and looking back to the obvious point that Randy Orton no matter how many people that went to management and complained about Mr Kennedy, Randy had a part in it.

And again.. I'm NOT saying Randy is the cause of Kofi Kingston doing nothing of significance on RAW right now, I'm saying Randy could POSSIBLY be a cause of it, there's a big difference between saying that he actually is the cause of Kofi Kingston doing nothing, as opposed to actually saying that there's a chance that Randy has a finger on the whole situation.

 

[mk_philly74]

Yep, Orton has a lot of influence backstage. His friendship with Cena is the reason Cena is such a big star today. Kennedy deserved to get fired. Injury prone, failed drug tests, not a safe in ring worker. Hell, he almost killed Angle in their ladder match. Kofi is where he is not because of Orton, its because thats where they need him to be. Orton and Kofi are friends off camera so it's not his fault Kofi is where he is. WWE needs people backstage with Orton cause he actually stands up for guys in the back. But just like most media, we always hear more about the negatives than the positives. Plus we can't know exactly what happens backstage cause we're not there. So its all hearsay.

 

[The Champ]

Yep, Orton has a lot of influence backstage. His friendship with Cena is the reason Cena is such a big star today. Kennedy deserved to get fired. Injury prone, failed drug tests, not a safe in ring worker. Hell, he almost killed Angle in their ladder match. Kofi is where he is not because of Orton, its because thats where they need him to be. Orton and Kofi are friends off camera so it's not his fault Kofi is where he is. WWE needs people backstage with Orton cause he actually stands up for guys in the back. But just like most media, we always hear more about the negatives than the positives. Plus we can't know exactly what happens backstage cause we're not there. So its all hearsay.

I agree with every part of this post except what I bolded, I mean come on. If Orton was the reason Cena got big, then wouldn't Orton be bigger? Cena got big because he decided to start rapping on an airplane once and that gimmick just completely took off. Orton had absolutely nothing to do with that, they weren't even on the same show until after Cena won the championship. And there's no way Orton had that amount of influence on who the company should push at that stage of his career.

And secondly, again I'm not saying Randy Orton is holding down anybody, I'm asking IF Randy Orton could go on to be one of those people because of the temper problems and looking back to the obvious point that Randy Orton no matter how many people that went to management and complained about Mr Kennedy, Randy had a part in it.

The fact that four people besides Orton, all veterans, reportedly went to management and asked that Kennedy be let go suggests that Kennedy is the problem, and not the five people who didn't want to get injured in the ring by someone who wasn't a safe worker.

 

[650ballinwhiteboy]

Randy is UNDOUBTEDLY one of the best in the business right now. He is a true backstage leader and I can't say that I don't agree with all his actions. Sim Snuka and Manu didnt belong with Legacy and to be honest neither was very good in the ring. I can't really tell if a guy is a "dangerous" worker or not but if a number of different superstars are complaining then something has to be done. As for Kofi, honestly I agree I don't like seeing him job but he really wasn't ready for the main event push. His mic skills are still really weak and going over Orton is a BIG FUCKING DEAL. I don't think he's ready to take that step

 

[The Ultimate]

Thank You Ferbian, for putting up this topic. And more importantly linking that article. I am not gonna lie, I've been thinking about that article ever since I read it on Wrestlezone. And I was really curious as to what it meant. Thanks for clearing that up.
But anyway, to answer the question, I think Randy Orton is holding talent down, simply because he wants to get over. I am probably just saying this because I hate Randy Orton, his moveset, his mic skills, his stupid facial expressions, not to mention his horrible acting skills...Or maybe I just don't know enough about him and I am being ignorant. Either way I am willing to believe he does have evil intentions...

 

[Ferbian]

Thank You Ferbian, for putting up this topic. And more importantly linking that article. I am not gonna lie, I've been thinking about that article ever since I read it on Wrestlezone. And I was really curious as to what it meant. Thanks for clearing that up.

You're welcome.

But anyway, to answer the question, I think Randy Orton is holding talent down, simply because he wants to get over. I am probably just saying this because I hate Randy Orton, his moveset, his mic skills, his stupid facial expressions, not to mention his horrible acting skills...Or maybe I just don't know enough about him and I am being ignorant. Either way I am willing to believe he does have evil intentions...

I'm not calling you on your opinions, that's yours, but I'm just gonna go ahead and disagree with you, at least on the parts with what you don't like about him, I'm not gonna comment on whether he's holding down talent or not, that's for you to judge, I'm not certain myself, and will therefore not take a side.

But to get to business.

Mic skills: He's doing great with the slow calm mic work, it may not be all over the top exciting for someone who likes CM Punk's loud "trancing" promos, John Cena's energetic promos, Chris Jericho's also slow yet I'm gonna say more interesting and natural speech, cause we know Jericho can cut one hell of an energetic promo.

The facial expressions is one of the things that makes him absolutely great, it's a kind of "build" to knowing "ooh boy here comes the scoop slam" or such, I have to admit I laughed my ass off during his and John Cena's Iron man match where he would proceed to really twitch and looking like it clicked in his head.

His move set is very balanced, it focuses on not changing no matter alignment, only speed changes, and I will say that he put on a great match and put Jack Swagger out there pretty firmly without hurting the momentum he's running right now.

And acting skills, I think he's a good seller, he's able to make you seem strong and able to sell firmly, while I do believe he's not the best seller in the WWE (Evan Bourne is probably one of the best, I love.. LOVE.. watching this guy get clotheslined, it made me fall in love with Ted's clothesline thing he's doing now and then)

Now I'm not gonna call you ignorant or anything, because we all have our opinions, but that's what the reply button is for, to share yours and disagree, agree etc.

 

[HeartbreakBA20]

I can't remember the initial question but I'll tell you this. Orton has been huge the whole last year. I'm tired of hearing how Orton is selfish and is only willing to put himself over. Are you serious? He's been with Legacy for over a year and made us talk about Ted and Cody. There are a dozen forums about what to do with Kofi and why Kofi isn't main eventing. The only reason we're even talking about that is because Orton got Kofi over so much as a wrestler. If you really think Kofi should have gotten the last win in their rivalry you're crazy! Kofi is entertaining in the ring but to be a main eventer you have to do more then just in ring capabilities. Not everyone has to become a main eventer in two years. Kofi is still young and I feel a change of scenery to Smackdown to work on his mic skills would be the best thing for his career. Can you say putting Jack Swagger over as more legitimate too lately? How can you say he is downgrading the young guys with his influence.

As it goes for best in ring workers. I think we all know HBK was/is by far the best. I also think Jericho is probably the best we have right now although Orton definitely is top 3 to me.