The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Randy Orton, finally we can start talking about some good wrestlers. Jesus Christ what took so long?
PWF Answers Wrestling Questions
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Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
I put Orton over Ziggler anytime so that's fine by me... Have you seen the video? Orton has to be the best seller in the WWE, at least for what I've seen. One example it's his match against CM Punk at WrestleMania 27 where he had to pretend he had an injured leg. But to be fair, do you think that right now is Orton overrated or underrated?
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
I'm biased, always like Orton, come rain, sun or wellness policy suspension.
He's an all-around guy. He's one of the most consistent in-ring performers they have, definitely up there with John Cena. Hes diverse, he plays his character to a tee, he can speak (although majority of people won't give him credit for it) and hes a plethora of good to great matches on his resume and still so young. I won't comment on whether hes overrated or underrated, I personally rate him as brilliant. Still though, been lost in the shuffle the last while.
He's an all-around guy. He's one of the most consistent in-ring performers they have, definitely up there with John Cena. Hes diverse, he plays his character to a tee, he can speak (although majority of people won't give him credit for it) and hes a plethora of good to great matches on his resume and still so young. I won't comment on whether hes overrated or underrated, I personally rate him as brilliant. Still though, been lost in the shuffle the last while.
Considering Brock Lesnar came back to a pop and managed to be getting heat by Extreme Rules (where he put on a GREAT match and continued to get heat heat after that), I would say no. Also, CM Punk gets solid heel heat, Edge got solid heat throughout his heel run, and Mark Henry got great heat during his last title reign. Clearly the best heels will get heat while still performing at a very high level.
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
But it's for small periods of time! CM Punk gets mixed reaction nowadays, it seems that at least 50% of the crowd is firmly behind him. Mark Henry had a great but small run, I have no doubt that two more months and he would have been cheered. Brock Lesnar had also mixed reactions back at Extreme Rules, but at SummerSlam he was getting into people's nerve because of "backstage crap" it was sent for us, like working only for money, and that was out of the board type of thing, Heyman also worked perfectly by insulting HHH's family and you know that he meant everything he said in his promos and I can hate someone that says that on live television just to get over.
Daniel Bryan started like that this year, just watch Extreme Rules and feel the "heat" he had when he went down the ramp! He was supposed to be an heel, a guy that mistreated and humiliated his innocent girlfriend, I mean you can't do much more than that without breaking PG. Other examples are Randy Orton back in 2009 that was "forced" to turn face because he had more cheers than boos. Chris Jericho as a heel never really clicked because he had mixed reactions also and just look at the TLC PPV where every single heel got cheered out of the building (take Cesaro of the list, he only got a small pop), but Ziggler c'mon, you can't be more evil than that, he called AJ a **** and was messing with everyone's favorite hero, so explain that!
CM Punk gets a mostly negative reaction in just about every city he goes to, the exceptions being the really smarky cities like Chicago, New York, Philly, and maybe Boston. Besides that, he's generally booed except for one small part of the audience. Are a few cities/sections enough for you to write him off as a heel altogether? If they are, then wrestling might not be for you; cheering for an unpopular wrestler has been a thing since the early 90s.
And how do you know Mark Henry would have been booed after two months? Do you have the gift of foresight? There's absolutely no pattern to suggest that heels that do a good job will get cheered eventually. There is evidence to suggest that they will be very successful when they turn face, but very few heels really start to get cheered before they turn face (and this is very clearly seen in a few notable face changes like The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, or Sheamus a few back).
And your Brock Lesnar thing is an absolute joke. Do you really think more than a tiny fraction of the fans read up on wrestling rumors on the internet? The number of fans that heard the stories of Lesnar being an ass backstage was miniscule, with the majority of fans being completely oblivious to his standing with the other wrestlers, or even the terms of his contract. They weren't booing him for any other reason except the fact that they didn't like him or what he was about.
You also completely neglected to touch on Edge, a guy who performed expertly as a heel for nearly 5 years and, apart from a few isolated incidents (mostly involving John Cena) was consistently getting massive amounts of heat. Edge is one of the best heels the WWE has ever had, and the fans didn't cheer for him prematurely, as your theory would suggest.
Daniel Bryan is an interesting case as the people who are cheering for him are actually antagonizing the character, thereby making the cheers into boos and the boos staying boos. It's amazing booking, really.
And once again, TLC was located in a smarky city in New York. There are always going to be a few venues that give you tricky reactions, and you can't base shit off of that. I mean, Zack Ryder might get a HUGE pop in New York and Long Island, but are you going to say he's the most over man in the company because of that? Hell no. Sin Cara gets huge cheers every time the WWE goes to Mexico, but are you going to make him WWE Champion because of that? No way, José. The reactions of fans in certain arenas is not indicative of the entire fan base's general feelings.
On a side note, please learn to write properly. Your run-on sentences make reading your ramblings all the more trying on my patience.
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
That's a load of crap and the reason why everyone believe that the internet is the same 10% it was like 10 years ago refereed by Eric Bischoff is fucking insane. You are trying to tell me that people knew that Brock Lesnar was coming back, because they knew, but they don't know backstage crap? Don't you fuck with me. Edge has always been the cool heel, like since his debut he had the charisma to go from a good babyface to a cool heel, he was never truly evil, half the time he was just a performer in the right place at the right time, the only years he was pretty booed was when he was in an angle with Vickie Guerrero, and Vickie's annoying ass voice pretty much did that for him.
That stupid excuse to Daniel Bryan is clearly desperate. You are willing to make me believe that in the middle of the Hell in a Cell match between Undertaker and HHH the people who were chanting "Daniel Bryan" were antagonizing him? That's a lie! At Extreme Rules you saw Sheamus get booed out of the building, he had more heat than Chris Jericho or Brock Lesnar combined and Daniel Bryan was the most over guy there BY FAR!
Do you think that only 5% of the crowds that WWE's visit boos John Cena? Because it isn't, in fact TTTT had to be the only place where Cena didn't get more heat than freaking CM Punk. And the Mark Henry crap, just use your fucking head, everyone around here (the internet, not WZ) was saying that he had an amazing run so they were obviously already fans, and IT WOULD be represented in a WWE crowd sooner than later, the same way Daniel Bryan got over, the same way Orton was forced to turn face, the same way Cena gets more heat than cheers. The fact that you people believe that you are exclusive to the "backstage crap by dirtsheet.com" is fucking idiotic! I just need to type WWE at Twitter or Tumblr and I'll find some sorry ass post giving me a link for some website giving me the same crap we all read. WWE crowds are changing, in 2010 I'd see heels get booed and faces get cheered at least it was the common thing, nowadays it's way more common to see people go out there and boo the freaking babyfaces and cheer the heels. One more thing, before Miz turned babyface there were a lot of people asking for that and it wasn't uncommon to hear the crowd proceed with "Miz is Awesome" whenever he said it.
Now use your fucking head and open your ears and start to pay attention instead of believing in stupid things. I said heels ARE NOT doing their job because people care a lot more about their work than anything else! I said that I can't hate any heel unless he sucks ass like Antonio Cesaro or unless he just fakes an heart attack, jokes about rape or be a fucking racist - all I said was THAT HEELS are not HEELS ANYMORE. It seems that those concepts are slowly disappearing, because fans are going to cheer for whomever entertains them the most and I'M SORRY for actually ENJOYING the CLASSIC idea of PRO-WRESTLING that puts a good guy against a bad guy, and yes when I say bad guy he's supposed to be a bad guy and not just a guy that insults america or uses some cheap heat that isn't actually anything special nowadays given the fact that even Hornswoggle could get heat by using that cheap tactics.
That stupid excuse to Daniel Bryan is clearly desperate. You are willing to make me believe that in the middle of the Hell in a Cell match between Undertaker and HHH the people who were chanting "Daniel Bryan" were antagonizing him? That's a lie! At Extreme Rules you saw Sheamus get booed out of the building, he had more heat than Chris Jericho or Brock Lesnar combined and Daniel Bryan was the most over guy there BY FAR!
Do you think that only 5% of the crowds that WWE's visit boos John Cena? Because it isn't, in fact TTTT had to be the only place where Cena didn't get more heat than freaking CM Punk. And the Mark Henry crap, just use your fucking head, everyone around here (the internet, not WZ) was saying that he had an amazing run so they were obviously already fans, and IT WOULD be represented in a WWE crowd sooner than later, the same way Daniel Bryan got over, the same way Orton was forced to turn face, the same way Cena gets more heat than cheers. The fact that you people believe that you are exclusive to the "backstage crap by dirtsheet.com" is fucking idiotic! I just need to type WWE at Twitter or Tumblr and I'll find some sorry ass post giving me a link for some website giving me the same crap we all read. WWE crowds are changing, in 2010 I'd see heels get booed and faces get cheered at least it was the common thing, nowadays it's way more common to see people go out there and boo the freaking babyfaces and cheer the heels. One more thing, before Miz turned babyface there were a lot of people asking for that and it wasn't uncommon to hear the crowd proceed with "Miz is Awesome" whenever he said it.
Now use your fucking head and open your ears and start to pay attention instead of believing in stupid things. I said heels ARE NOT doing their job because people care a lot more about their work than anything else! I said that I can't hate any heel unless he sucks ass like Antonio Cesaro or unless he just fakes an heart attack, jokes about rape or be a fucking racist - all I said was THAT HEELS are not HEELS ANYMORE. It seems that those concepts are slowly disappearing, because fans are going to cheer for whomever entertains them the most and I'M SORRY for actually ENJOYING the CLASSIC idea of PRO-WRESTLING that puts a good guy against a bad guy, and yes when I say bad guy he's supposed to be a bad guy and not just a guy that insults america or uses some cheap heat that isn't actually anything special nowadays given the fact that even Hornswoggle could get heat by using that cheap tactics.
There, I saved you alot of mind numbing reading.A lot. Thank me later
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
You really are a treat, so that prowrestlingfan or whatever was a guy that also thought that he was the genius or the savior of wrestling, like you are trying to make me. You need to find better excuses for that, I mean it's like everybody who has an opinion different from yours has gotta be a know it all type of guy, like no other option - you made a fool out of yourself by saying that 2002-2003 was awful, when if you count the votes, you'll see that more people enjoyed those years than the ones who haven't. So start helping wrestling discussions instead of being a fucking cunt. I mean you were the one going against 2002-2003 and LJL and Coco were the ones that actually defended their points, you were just looking from the outside while we had an informative to say the least wrestling discussion - the only thing you said was Katie Vick, which is something it's easy to find when you search about those years, I'm pretty sure you haven't even watched those years and you were just being a cunt hiding behind far more intelligent people than you.
Your response to the fact that all of your posts qualify as tl;dr is to write something else tl;dr. Baffling logic. I shall now dub you Mini-Stormtrooper.
And by the way, you got 4 people to say 02-03 was good, 10 people to say it was mixed, and 14 to say it sucked, or they stopped watching. I'm not sure what poll you're talking about.
Why write one paragraph to get someone butt hurt when you only need one sentence?
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
Somewhat good means that is was enjoyable, and if you read my posts it was my point from the beginning, I said it had his bad things and his good things, however the good surpassed the bad and more 2002 and 2003 were important years that created pretty much the image you have now of wrestling. Which means people agreed with me since 18 people would not skip those years and would watch the good stuff those years provided you however just said fuck no, making your point to be that anything was even tolerated on your screen.
Another doubt, I don't really know who Stormstrooper is and I'M SORRY for wanting to be part of a wrestling community to actually talk about wrestling instead of pretending it.
I'm sorry, when did I ever say 2002-2003 was all bad?
I said it before, you twat, it was a horrendous time for wrestling. Even bad eras for wrestling era have good stuff. The point was more that as a fan, the era sucked.
Oh, and more people will agree that it sucked, than would admit it was good. That was the argument, no matter how you want to twist it
I said it before, you twat, it was a horrendous time for wrestling. Even bad eras for wrestling era have good stuff. The point was more that as a fan, the era sucked.
Oh, and more people will agree that it sucked, than would admit it was good. That was the argument, no matter how you want to twist it
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
That is a lie just read that: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=246189
And I rest my case! More people agreed that the year had good and bad things and that the good things outweigh the bad. You are the only guy that thinks that PPV Buyrates means Quality!
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
Well, I don't really want to be a jerk here but take it... Read the comments as well
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-2002-was-the-greatest-year-in-pro-wrestling
Oh Goody! We're playing that game
http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/information/hallofshame/wwe2002/
http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/information/hallofshame/wwe2003/
And by your logic, because I have 2, count them 2, articles, my point is better
http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/information/hallofshame/wwe2002/
http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/information/hallofshame/wwe2003/
And by your logic, because I have 2, count them 2, articles, my point is better
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Yeah, that's all opinion based. There are facts and figures that clearly show the ratings for TV and merchandise and PPV sells going down. And unlike 2008-2010 there was no crippling recession to fall back on.
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
Ahahah you do realize that they do that FOR EVERY WRESTLING YEAR since 2002? They just talk about the bad things the years had. No shit you think everything sucks like CM Punk nowadays.
ProWrestlingFan
Championship Contender
Yes. Shelton Benjamin.
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
PPV sells do not show quality! Just because TNA has like 11.000 buys for a standard PPV, do I have to believe they suck? Because they don't, at least not like they used to and are turning into a good option for tired fans in WWE. I'm sorry but I don't believe that ratings or PPV buyrates prove the quality of a product. It's no way in hell I'll say that Justin Bieber is better that Queen just because he sold more CD's or crap like that. As I won't say that Avatar is the best movie of all time just because it made tons of money.
ProWrestlingFan
Championship Contender
Nope. The Wrestlewar match is more popular. It was even on HHH's DVD because it was his favorite match and that match inspired him to be a professional wrestler.
And again failing to get the point... For every article you can find, I can find as many that points out the shittiness of the era
But I can see how that flew over your head
ProWrestlingFan
Championship Contender
Talking about worst years for WWE. 2007 is one of the worst. WWE sucked that year.
Actually they do.
If no one is buying your shows, it's because they don't like the product. How hard is that to get?
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
There are different factors that could determine that in modern day terms - the recession, prominent streaming, and online purchasing which can and do affect those numbers in 2012. Ten years ago all of that stuff were non factors.
If rating and buy rates were going down from 1999 to 2002 then that's just it - they simply went down.