"Pro life"

[HBK-aholic]

Ok, I think I got it now Pro-Choice stance is:

Murder of babies is ok because it's not currently against the law in the US.

For a start, I don't think either of us are really saying that, seeings as I'd still be pro-choice if abortion was illegal. I've already explained this to you but it doesn't seem to get into your head - Abortion is not murder because the law says so. That's a fact, and what has been referenced.

It also depends on how you phrase it. If you're pregnent and you go to the doctor and say "Can you please murder my baby?", that makes it seem wrong. But if you say "I was raped, can you please lawfully abort the fetus that has taken residence in MY body?" That makes it seem fine and dandy.

Because the first request would make it seem as if you wanted to kill a child which has already been born. See what I meant by the way pro-lifers use emotive language?

It's like when you try and kill yourself. That's fine because it's YOUR choice. They don't put you in a hospital against your will or anything. It's YOUR body.

Wait...

You should be allowed to commit suicide, I have NO clue why it's illegal.

 

[Loveless]

I really don't know how to be any more clear...

Well you claimed that I didn't believe in anything. What makes you think that? I've got beliefs on pretty much everything and they're very much my own.

No it's not.

Dictionary.com

I just read that definition and I can't see where your argument is. It's exactly what I said, unless you're mixing their definitions.

 

[Loveless]

You should be allowed to commit suicide, I have NO clue why it's illegal.

I used to wonder the same thing, I've a better understanding now.
At least 2 of my friends have tried to kill themselves, both failed. One is schizophrenic and when she's in that state, she's away with the clouds and all logic disappears. When she's sane, she doesn't want to kill herself at all. The girl needs protection and that's exactly why people shouldn't be allowed to kill themselves. Seriously, think about it. How distorted and fucked up do things have to be in your head to try and kill yourself? I'd say a massive MASSIVE majority of people who try aren't thinking straight and infact just want help.
Now you can either help them or you can just let them die. It's a pretty simple choice.

 

[ShockTheMonkey223]

I used to wonder the same thing, I've a better understanding now.
At least 2 of my friends have tried to kill themselves, both failed. One is schizophrenic and when she's in that state, she's away with the clouds and all logic disappears. When she's sane, she doesn't want to kill herself at all. The girl needs protection and that's exactly why people shouldn't be allowed to kill themselves. Seriously, think about it. How distorted and fucked up do things have to be in your head to try and kill yourself? I'd say a massive MASSIVE majority of people who try aren't thinking straight and infact just want help.
Now you can either help them or you can just let them die. It's a pretty simple choice.

But the same certainly can't be said about a woman getting an abortion.

Face it, abortion being legal just doesn't make sense. You can support baby murder if you want but it's ridiculous to avoid analogy after analogy and say the dictionary is wrong.

But it's obvious this debate is going nowhere so I'm done. I agree to disagree. Peace.

 

[Loveless]

But the same certainly can't be said about a woman getting an abortion.

It's not like women can just go into a a clinic and get one over lunch. They pretty much force you to sit down and discuss things and will then send you away to consider it. Help is offered but it's the choice of the individual in the
end. The individual should always be protected, especially over a collection of cells. It's not nice but it's how it needs to be.

Face it, abortion being legal just doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense and I've given numerous reasons why, while you've offered nothing but "It's wrong", which we have all agreed with.

You can support baby murder if you want but it's ridiculous to avoid analogy after analogy and say the dictionary is wrong.

I wasn't saying the dictionary was wrong, I said your interpretation of it was.

But it's obvious this debate is going nowhere so I'm done. I agree to disagree. Peace.

If all the pro-lifers could take that stance I'd be a lot happier. I've no problem with you have an opinion but I object to it being forced on pregnant women with a difficult choice to me, they really don't need it.

 

[X]

Let me just say first and foremost that I am completely pro-choice and always have been. That said, some of the arguments presented to this Shock the Monkey guy are piss poor at best. Just because you disagree with the guy, doesn't mean you have the right to call the guy "scum" for christ's sake. He has a different opinion, deal with it, that's what a fucking forum is about.

That said, again, I'm completely pro-choice. You can call it baby murder all day and night long, but I don't really give a shit. I wish we'd spend half the amount of time worrying about the problems of people WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN BORN than those who haven't. Who does abortion hurt? No one. You could argue it takes away a life that could have been, well, what's your point? COULD have been is the key word. We have enough to worry about with real, living breathing people being murdered to have to worry about things that aren't even born yet.

It's a woman's body, she should have the right to do with it however she pleases. I don't care if she wants to pump heroin intravenously to her heart, it's her body, she can do whatever she wants with it. I support NO law that tries to govern what people can do with their own bodies.

 

[Ty Burna]

I'm actually fairly pro choice when it comes to this issue, though to be fair, in my opinion I believe there are better choices than abortion when it comes to the child, and I know the problems those other choices can have.

First and foremost, if a woman wants to have an abortion, then by all means, let her have an abortion. A lot of people can scream to the high heavens that it is wrong and immoral, but in reality have these people ever been in the woman's position before? Maybe the woman doesn't have the means to support the child, or has a mental disease that may be harmful for raising a child. In reality you can't say these women are immoral for getting an abortion, in fact many of them you could be sympathetic for them.

Moving on however, placing the child in adoption could be considered a better choice, and I realize that foster homes are not the best place in the world, but you have couples who have no way of having a child looking to adopt one, this would be an ideal situation for them. Personally I know a girl who was 16 and got pregnant. She had the child and tried to raise it. She just did not have the means to do so, so she gave it up for adoption, and now her child has a great chance of succeeding in life. She still gets to see her every once in awhile and the family always provides updates for her. I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to give up a child, and thus another issue with the adoption route. As a male, I don't know how much of a bond is created between a baby when it is born and it's mother, but I can hazard a guess and say that it's pretty strong. If the mother decided on adoption instead of an abortion, it could be pretty hard on her to give the child up after spending nine months in caring for it. The separation anxiety could overwhelm the mother, and cause serious psychological issues for her.

While we're on the topic of abortions, and as a very soon to be father myself, I would like to say that I believe the father of the unborn child should have some sort of say in the process. I realize this does not involve women that became pregnant because of rape, but this is pointed towards women that get pregnant when it wasn't planned. Women have all the say whether the child is kept or not, but what if the father decides that he wants to keep the child, even if the mother does not? He has no say whatsoever and will lose his child just because the mother does not want to go through with it. I also realize that it would be difficult to give the father any choice, but could something be done to allow him a voice in the situation? As it stands now the mother could tell him that she's getting an abortion, and he can scream and object until he's blue in the face and it wouldn't do a damn bit of good for him. The father I believe should have some say, but I doubt anything would ever be done in that regard.

As it stands however, to get an abortion is a woman's personal choice. That choice has nothing to do with what we think, and what our values are. It seems like to me that pro life people get all worked up like the woman getting an abortion is making a political stand when she has one. Get the fuck over it, I understand you have values and morals that you follow. Great, wonderful, I'm glad you have those values and morals. But don't sit there and try screaming at the poor woman who has to make the difficult decision to go through with the abortion and give up on having a child. There are usually outside circumstances on why the woman has chose an abortion. Now as far as woman that get knocked up and just simply refuse to have a kid, I have no remorse for them. A saying that my father taught me that I take to heart, and obviously I am following this creed, is this: If you are willing to have sex, you better be willing to accept any consequences of having sex. If the woman is willing to have sex and get's pregnant, and has the stability and means to raise a kid, then I believe they should have the child and raise it. I don't see that as an unreasonable view on the abortion situation. But again, when a mother doesn't have the ability and means to raise a child, and cannot go through the trauma of separation anxiety, or of course because of rape, then by all means an abortion should be considered.

I just want to say one last thing here, don't ever force your values or your opinion on people, there is no need for that. At least in the US here, we have the right of free speech. Lay out your opinion in a non condescending way and allow people to make the choice if they agree with your opinion or not. There's nothing wrong with someone disagrees with your opinion, as it should allow for dialogue and discussion on why you disagree. Don't allow difference in opinion to break down into name calling and dissing one another over it.

 

[FromTheSouth]

This is not that big in the UK(where I'm from) but from what I understand it's a big thing in the US.

Here are my problems withe "pro life" group. First the name. It's a minipulation and it makes no sense! I mean who isn't pro life?Life is good death is bad,pretty much everyone agrees with this!

Right, and pro=choice is less of a manipulation of the term. Everyone wants choices. Choices are good. The word abortion doesn't appear in either sides "name." What is your point here?

Let's look at the most famous "pro life" guy George W Bush.He cut aid to countries that allowed abortion.As Aid is sent to starving people with poor medical care then it's a safe bet people died because of this. Just to repeat thateople died becuase George was "pro life"!Please someone explain to me in what world that makes anything even remotley resembleing common sense!

You are so badly misinformed that I actually had to stop laughing before I typed. Bush cut aid to international family planning groups that performed abortions. He didn't cut aid to the Red Cross or Amnesty Internation or the Sudan. He cut it to Planned Parenthood. Boo fucking hoo. Planned parenthood is an organization that encourages teen age girls to lie to get around parental notification laws, thereby perpetrating a fraud. These aren't public health groups, they are roving death squads in favor of nothing more than population control.
[quotes]
Also good old George W signed(as govener of Texas) 26 death warrents,including 3 people who were offically ******ed.[/quote]

So, what you're saying is that he didn't break any laws. Good. I like how it is President Bush's fault, when nine levels of the court system all determined them all to be mentally competent while committing their murders. Bill Clinton stopped along the campaign trail in 1992 to watch the execution of a mentally handicapped criminal.

Whatever your views on capital punishment you must agree that doesn't exactly scream "pro Life" does it? More like before your born I'll protect you but once your born well fuck you!

So, let's see here. You put living people on an equal plane with fetuses throughout your argument. Your best argument (which is still terrible) says that we should abort because we kill criminals. So, why are you in favor of killing one type of living being (by your definition) and not another? Are you another population control advocate? Why don't we flip it, and not kill either of them? What makes you so sure you can define who gets to die and who doesn't?

But that's just semantics(Although btw the way the reason they are "pro life as opposed to being "anti abortion" is a mind trick,if you can't work out why I'll be happy to let you know)

Right. Because pro-choice is less vague.

So the matter in hand.

I think you meant at hand.

If the state found out someone was having a baby with say downs and said to the mother "we order you to have an abortion" The mother would(quite rightly) say "I'm the person who has to raise it not you. So the choice is mine! And sorry you can't have freedom of choice one way and not another.

I agree. But here's your problem. Contextually, in the death penalty rant, you put living beings and fetuses on the same level. Therefore, abortion equals murder, according to you. And since you are so against executing handicapped criminals, then you must be against executing handicapped babies. But you're not. So, this makes you a hypocrite. This makes all of your arguments invalid.

Also if the "pro lifers" had there way women who had been raped would be fro

forced to give birth to the child of the man who raped them. I'll repeat that women who have been raped would be FORCED to give give birth to the child of the man who raped them. Does this sound resonable to anyone. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a child by a rapeist,but it is only right to give them that choice, as after all we live in a free world. Any thoughts?

They aren't forced to raise it. There are safe harbor laws where she could just drop the baby off at a police station. The child would have no way of ever finding her. It would be gone forever. Furthermore, is it baby's fault that it is a product of rape?

Look, this debate never has an answer, as it always turns into name calling and violence. I think abortion is a deplorable act, and I hope that everyone who has had one lives with the stigma forever. I hope not one of them sleeps free and easily knowing that they killed a child.

That being said, I don't think it should be illegal. I equate it to gun control. Guns aren't for everyone, but the freedom to have one is part of the basis of American culture. We live in a society where the choices about our lives are intrinsic to our way of living. Making abortion illegal undermines everything we have fought for around the world. I hate the procedure, but love freedom to much to argue against its legality.

 

[Loveless]

Moving on however, placing the child in adoption could be considered a better choice, and I realize that foster homes are not the best place in the world, but you have couples who have no way of having a child looking to adopt one, this would be an ideal situation for them. Personally I know a girl who was 16 and got pregnant. She had the child and tried to raise it. She just did not have the means to do so, so she gave it up for adoption, and now her child has a great chance of succeeding in life. She still gets to see her every once in awhile and the family always provides updates for her. I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to give up a child, and thus another issue with the adoption route. As a male, I don't know how much of a bond is created between a baby when it is born and it's mother, but I can hazard a guess and say that it's pretty strong. If the mother decided on adoption instead of an abortion, it could be pretty hard on her to give the child up after spending nine months in caring for it. The separation anxiety could overwhelm the mother, and cause serious psychological issues for her.

You pretty much covered everyone I wanted to say in the last paragraph. If you can go ahead with the birth and adoption then fantastic, it's sure as hell preferable if you're strong enough to go through that. I think some people just aren't. Personally I know it would bother the hell out of me knowing my child was growing up with someone else because I was incapable. That's not to say abortion is any easier to deal, infact I'm fairly certain it's not but I can see it being easier to just get it over with instead of dragging things out.

While we're on the topic of abortions, and as a very soon to be father myself, I would like to say that I believe the father of the unborn child should have some sort of say in the process. I realize this does not involve women that became pregnant because of rape, but this is pointed towards women that get pregnant when it wasn't planned. Women have all the say whether the child is kept or not, but what if the father decides that he wants to keep the child, even if the mother does not? He has no say whatsoever and will lose his child just because the mother does not want to go through with it. I also realize that it would be difficult to give the father any choice, but could something be done to allow him a voice in the situation? As it stands now the mother could tell him that she's getting an abortion, and he can scream and object until he's blue in the face and it wouldn't do a damn bit of good for him. The father I believe should have some say, but I doubt anything would ever be done in that regard.

As a should have been a father, I totally empathise but at the same time, it's how it has to be. You've said yourself that you're pro-choice but it's a lot harder to stick to that principle when it's your own child and not your choice. The best you can hope for is to have a voice and hope that your partner at least listens and considers your viewpoint. Then you have to accept the choice, end of. It can't be any other way.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I'm a big, big fan of safe harbor laws. Personally, I'm only for abortion in cases where birth might have dire consequences for someone's health or if someone has been raped. Furthermore, I think that a woman's choice over her body has less to do with feminism and more to do with how the 1960s counterculture framed sex as a natural act that should be pretty much inconsequential. Obviously, this outlook has changed somewhat with the emergence of AIDS, but I think that people still view sex as something that should entail little responsibility for its participants.

Also, for people who believe that having a baby is a woman's choice, you do know that, in an overwhelming majority of cases, it was her "choice" to have sex and run the risk of pregnancy? Don't give me that bullshit about faulty contraception either. What we call unplanned pregnancies are usually just the result of little to no forethought. I'm not saying women should have to live with the burden of raising a child afterwards, but I do think that they should spare nine months of their lives to give someone the chance of life.

 

[Razor]

Right, so. 4 pages of responses in a day? Damn. I hope no one called anyone a "Nazi" yet. You don't wanna break Godwin's Law in the first 50 responses, now do ya?

I'm pro-choice, as many would probably expect. I'm Xfear light, as it were. Hmmm..I wonder who FTS light would be then...

At any rate, yes. I support the pro-life movement. Mainly because, to me, life doesn't begin until the baby is born. That's just how i see it. That's when the baby starts to interact with the world, when the baby breathes, when the baby shits in this world, when the baby smacks the wall of his crib.

You can argue about babies having brains at whatever age in the womb, or about babies having fingernails, or about babies shaking their fists in the womb, or whatever else you want to yell about. Those brains aren't fully functional during the first trimester, the fingernails are there because it would be silly evolutionarily speaking to be born without fingernails, and the fist shaking is random electrical volleys sent by the brain. It's not because the baby is saying "Hey guys. I'd really like to be born now."

Adoption would be a valid alternative, if the adoption system in this country were worth half a shit. Of the estimated 127,000 children up for adoption in 2000, 51,000 were adopted. That leaves an excess of 76,000 children in the system, waiting for another influx of children. (That's not including the other hundreds of thousands that are in the system waiting for their parents to adopt them. It's called a "Path to Reunification" or some shit like that.) And on the cycle goes, crushing the older children in favor of younger children. And of those who are adopted, who says they will go to a home better than the one the mother can provide? How many stories have we heard of women and men adopting 7 children for the state payment while they neglect their adopted children? The adoption system is broken, and I wouldn't blame any woman for not wanting to place her child in that system.

I'm no monster who glories in the death of a baby. I don't wake up every morning and say "Muahahaha! Another 100,000 babies were killed yesterday! Let me go jackoff on my altar to Beelzebulb!" I just understand that;

A) Without the choice of safe and healthy abortions there will be abortions held in back alleys that will leave hundreds if not thousands of women dead. All because some people wanted to force their religious or ethical views upon an entire population.

B) The abortion of a child isn't something that is taken lightly by these women. It's not "Oh, I got pregnant. Let me go get that doctor to kill this abomination growing in my stomach." It's thought over, mulled over, pained over.

C) The aborted fetuses could go on to save lives through stem cell research. I'm not talking baby farms at all, so don't even say that. If a fetus is to be aborted by a mother, why can it not go on to help people with Alzheimers? Parkinson's Disease? Muscular Dystrophy? Why can it not go on to help grow a liver for someone in need of a transplant? Or a heart? a kidney?

D) Abortions are often needed to avoid the death of the mother. The idea of doctors refusing to offer abortions to their dying patients is sickening at best. That patient went to them expecting to be saved of any life-ending complication, and a doctor would rather see their patient die than save something that isn't even medically or legally alive. Don't be a doctor if you can't do everything needed to save your patient.

 

[2012isbs]

I am very pro life and actually John McCain would have it so only the following could get abortions, rape victims, incest pregnancies and pregnancies that could kill the mother. So ha Pro-Choicers big hole in your arguement right there. Even if you were raped and got pregnant your still killing someone that did nothing wrong in the first place. Pro-Life is called because it's protecting the life of an unborn child who can't speak for itself so it's assumed it would want to live. Also put the kid up for adoption if you don't want it the state will ccare for it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I am very pro life and actually John McCain would have it so only the following could get abortions, rape victims, incest pregnancies and pregnancies that could kill the mother. So ha Pro-Choicers big hole in your arguement right there.

I see no hole in our argument, I've already explained how allowing abortion only for things like rape is stupid because it'd be impossible for a number of reasons.

• This would assume the woman goes and reports the rape, which she may not want to do.
• Rape cases take longer to solve than the few months needed to decide about an abortion. There needs to be a hunt to find the guy, assuming it wasn't someone she knew, there'd have to be a trial etc. All this takes a long time to prepare. By the time it's over she'd have had the child.
• It'd simply increase the numbers of women who lie about rape - clearly not a good thing in any way.

Even if you were raped and got pregnant your still killing someone that did nothing wrong in the first place.

Meh, the woman did nothing wrong either, yet she was put in the situation.

Also put the kid up for adoption if you don't want it the state will ccare for it.

That's fine if there's one or two. But think about how many abortions take place each year, is there really enough space, and carers for that?

 

[Nitafrong]

As with any of these big issues I find myself left on the bench unable to pick a side (no matter how much I try to get up from the fence, its too hard to get down from )

There are much to be said for either argument, the need for both cynical realism and emotional understanding- we can't really live our lives dedicated to either, we need balance (helps to stop falling down )

Just a number of points which cover my own view. I don't really think its reasonable to try and use time periods to decide what’s life and what’s not. Really there is very limited difference between a child seconds before birth and after, and yet for some, one is a child and the other is simply flesh. Personally I believe life is formed once the woman’s egg is fertilised with the mans sperm, regardless of how much animation the foetus has here. I equate this though with a person in a coma- pulling the switch and ending their life has the same result (though at some point the baby moves beyond this point when brain activity starts to build)

At the same time I think we are taking an overly sentimental view about death. We kill animals, people in foreign countries and sometimes in our own country directly and indirectly all the time and yet indiscriminate bombing which results in civilian casualties is not given the same precedence as the abortion debate. When we ignore people asking for charity are we indirectly killing to a much closer extent than by accepting abortion?

Sorry if this all got a little confusing ( ), it was a bit of turning on the tap style writing and trying to directly write what I thought rather than think through everything clearly. Anyways as I say- sitting firmly on the fence, believing in both the need for and the need to protect against abortion.

 

[Razor]

I am very pro life and actually John McCain would have it so only the following could get abortions, rape victims, incest pregnancies and pregnancies that could kill the mother.

Okay? That's still policing something that is no more than a medical procedure. It's not like these women are having abortions as a form of birth control.

So ha Pro-Choicers big hole in your arguement right there.

...No?

Even if you were raped and got pregnant your still killing someone that did nothing wrong in the first place.

No. We're not killing the woman. We're terminating a pregnancy that hasn't reached full term yet. It's the same as going in and aborting a dog's pregnancy. ..If you could do that...

Pro-Life is called because it's protecting the life of an unborn child who can't speak for itself so it's assumed it would want to live.

Right. You're assuming. You know what assuming does...it makes an ass out of you and me.

At any rate, Pro-Life is arguing for the life of something that isn't even legally or medically alive yet. Then again, you know. While we're assuming shit, might as well bring life to something that isn't alive.

Also put the kid up for adoption if you don't want it the state will ccare for it.

You know how many children that would add to the adoption pool? How much money that would cost the state? How shitty orphanages are on the whole?

Sure, put the baby into adoption if you want to. But don't hate on a woman who doesn't want to put their future child through the hell of orphanages and what not.

 

[HereComesThePain101]

I have always been a pro choice person myself even before my sister was forced to get one. now before i start let me just say it is a Fetus. it is not even medically alive yet. but also i would like to say it is not easy to do decide to do this for the women and i myself would prefer that the baby was born but sometimes that is not an option.

now i don't believe it should be a form of birth control like that every girl that gets drunk and has sex with a guy and gets pregnant should have one but i do believe that there should always be that choice.

Anytime the government controls what we do to ourself it is usually bad. Someone before me said that Abortion is not something that Women just think about first thing. i know because i saw it that Abortion is something that is carefully thought about and is usually the last resort.

So like i said Abortion is something that should always be a choice to women although i do say that while yes Women it is your body your Husband or boyfriend should have a say as well but in the end i guess it has to be your decision.

 

[Dexter]

The thing about the pro-choice argument is that it's never taken to its obvious conclusion.

"It's my body, it's my choice!" I agree entirely. But that doesn't just apply to abortion. It applies to anything you might choose to put into your body as well. It's yours, right? It's your choice, right?

So if you believe that, don't you necessarily have to also believe in the legalization of drugs? As in... all of them. Across the board. Anything you choose to put in your body is entirely up to you as long as you're of legal age to make the decision. Nicotine, alcohol, pot, heroin, oxycontin... anything. They all have to be legal or the logical construct falls apart.

Now, just for the record, that is exactly what I believe. My body, my choice. I'm not a drug user, but I resent anyone telling me what I can and can't put into my own body should I be inclined.

Not to derail the thread with a drug legalization debate, but I do believe the two arguments are inexorably linked.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I am completly against it myself and would never do it but at the same time I don't feel it's my position to judge any girl that does it, after all it is their choice.

The only way I could do it myself (in terms of my girlfriend getting pregnant) would be if she was raped or abused and became pregnant. If it is something like a broken dommer or drunk night then the 2 involved need to man up and take responsibility OR give it up for adoption.

My opinion but as I said, I don't judge anyone who may do it.

 

[jokeboy624]

The thing about the pro-choice argument is that it's never taken to its obvious conclusion.

"It's my body, it's my choice!" I agree entirely. But that doesn't just apply to abortion. It applies to anything you might choose to put into your body as well. It's yours, right? It's your choice, right?

So if you believe that, don't you necessarily have to also believe in the legalization of drugs? As in... all of them. Across the board. Anything you choose to put in your body is entirely up to you as long as you're of legal age to make the decision. Nicotine, alcohol, pot, heroin, oxycontin... anything. They all have to be legal or the logical construct falls apart.

Now, just for the record, that is exactly what I believe. My body, my choice. I'm not a drug user, but I resent anyone telling me what I can and can't put into my own body should I be inclined.

Not to derail the thread with a drug legalization debate, but I do believe the two arguments are inexorably linked.

The problem with this argument is that with an abortion, there are only two people and a fetus that is directly affected by the situation. Some people may argue that there are more, but it really only affects the mother and the father. When it comes to drug abuse, you have people that kill others while under the influence, steal to get money for drugs, it would be impossibly hard to control and regulate the drug trade while abortions are for the most part regulated and administered by licensed professionals. I agree that you should be able to do with your body what you will, but there are too many extenuating circumstances involving drugs to legalize them.

I am Pro-choice myself because the alternative is too gruesome to think of. I don't believe that abortions should be used as a birth control but it's a necessary evil to make sure that women that need them can get them.

 

[Dexter]

The problem with this argument is that with an abortion, there are only two people and a fetus that is directly affected by the situation. Some people may argue that there are more, but it really only affects the mother and the father. When it comes to drug abuse, you have people that kill others while under the influence, steal to get money for drugs, it would be impossibly hard to control and regulate the drug trade while abortions are for the most part regulated and administered by licensed professionals. I agree that you should be able to do with your body what you will, but there are too many extenuating circumstances involving drugs to legalize them.

See, I don't buy this for the simple reason that the legal system doesn't let you plead "drunk" if you kill someone in a car accident while intoxicated. You're still held legally responsible for your own actions, regardless of what kind of influence you may be under.

You just can't justify the removal of rights from an individual based on the possibility of those rights being misused... anymore than you can justify the removal of the right to abortion based on the possibility of it being used as birth control.

 

[JenovasWitness]

I was very hesitant to post in this thread as the first gentleman to post who happened to have a pro life point of view was called "scum".

The resolution in this argument is never going to be found as neither side will agree on one key point: the majority of "pro-lifers" believe that a fetus is a life whereas the majority of "pro-choice" devotees believe the opposite.

So, instead of choosing to throw insults back and forth at each other, I think it is much wiser just to agree to disagree in this and allow the pro-lifers to go there way while pro-choicers practice what they believe.

I personally lean towards the pro-life side of the argument, but I do not believe in forcing my personal belief in the matter on someone else. I'll share it if I am asked and I would expect to have my opinion respected as I respect other people's thoughts and opinions.

 

[Dexter]

I was very hesitant to post in this thread as the first gentleman to post who happened to have a pro life point of view was called "scum".

Ya know, I didn't even say that and I still feel like I should apologize for that person since I posted in this thread on the pro-choice side. I'm sorry. That person doesn't speak for the rest of us that disagree with you.

Maybe this goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway. You're not scum for disagreeing with me or anyone else, and your opinion is just as valid as mine. Thanks for having the balls to post what you perceived was an unpopular view in this thread. I respect that a hell of a lot.

...and now I feel like I should be getting naked and singing "Kumbaya" by a campfire. I got way too touchy feely there. I'm shutting up now.

 

[Evan Snow-Wolf]

I was very hesitant to post in this thread as the first gentleman to post who happened to have a pro life point of view was called "scum".
.

Yarp.

My thoughts exactly. The problem with political threads is when the super-angry folk come out. As soon as I saw Becca was in this thread I was very hesitant to post. We've seen her go off on this before. I'd rather run headfirst into a burning building than talk about abortion with Becca.

Bottom line:

Abortion is settled. You might not think it is, but it is. Its legal. If you are a Pro-Lifer. GET OVER IT. I'm saying this AS a Pro-Lifer.

Pro-Life is kinda like going to church. You go, you believe, you worship. You. If you wanna go to church, then you go to church. You don't drag other people to church, too. I don't go around bitching at other people for having abortions. I think its wrong, period. I don't like the word mingling of fetus and baby, but a lot of Choicers use it. Let them. If they wanna abort, let them abort. There isn't going to be some huge surge of awakening in the next 20 years where the whole population is gonna suddenly think either for or against. Some people will, and some people won't. Both sides are equally hate filled and screaming about it. For every person standing outside an abortion clinic waiving an ABORTION IS MURDER sign, there's someone calling someone else scum for being Pro-Life.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

I honestly couldn't care less on this topic. I think if a women wants to have an abortion, then it's her right too. I'm just all about free choice and all that jazz. But honestly I could see why some people are "pro-life" it just depends on what you deem as a living human being. Everyone has their personal beliefs and even scientist argue it.

Honestly if somebody doesn't want their unborn child, to me it's better that they "terminate" it, when it's still "unborn" then for it to live a "unsure" life possibly in a foster home. The world is overpopulated and poor as is. So I just think people should have the right to choose. If you don't want to have an abortion, don't. Easy as pie.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Yarp.

My thoughts exactly. The problem with political threads is when the super-angry folk come out. As soon as I saw Becca was in this thread I was very hesitant to post. We've seen her go off on this before. I'd rather run headfirst into a burning building than talk about abortion with Becca.

I probably wasn't supposed to like this, but this is awesome.

Anyway, I guess I should explain the difference in having a different opinion in a wresting thread, and over something like this. If you disagree that Shawn Michaels is a good wrestler, we can have a debate over it, but that's that. If you dislike him it really affects no one at all. When it comes to being pro-life, you're saying you want abortion to be illegal. That could affects millions of people - half the population. That could affect me personally. And regardless of who you are, I don't appreciate anyone thinking it's okay to take my rights away. I'm sure people would feel the same if it was some of their rights I was arguing should be taken away.

The difference is VERY big, and stems more from simply having a different opinion. You can hate abortion all you want, I don't care. It's when people are pro-life in wanting it illegal that it turns more from you having an opinion and into something that could affect my life.