Fury's Got Issues: #2, Abortion

[Hazardous]

okay, I backed out of this after Becca stepped in. Due to her being on the same side I was, I felt a woman's perspective would be better then my own. Yet, One To Remember, you are still trying to say you are right and all that other bullshit. Fine. But there are a few things I must comment on.

1) First you insult MY country, saying you guys trying to take us over in 1812 was the best thing that could have happened to us? Go to hell. I brought up the white house burning. You said it didn't happen? Take a look princess

The Burning of Washington was a battle that took place on August 24, 1814, during the War of 1812 between the British Empire and the United States of America. The British Army occupied Washington, D.C. and set fire to many public buildings following the American defeat at the Battle of Bladensburg. The facilities of the U.S. government, including the White House and U.S. Capitol, were largely destroyed, though strict discipline and the British commander's orders to burn only public buildings are credited with preserving the city's private buildings. This is the only time since 1783 in United States history that a foreign power has captured and occupied the United States capital (Philadelphia was captured by British forces in 1777 during the American Revolutionary War).

And now I'm sure you have something to say about how it's all wrong, and your great great great grandpa was there and he said different. Typical southerner.

I have seen MSNBC's Lock UP and their tours of the British penal system. Knowing now that your English I see why you are weak on capital punishment.. The people on deathrow are threats that need to be repelled or terminated.

We don't have the death penalty either. Nor do a lot of states for that matter. How about those people who are put on death row and are innocent? It's happened lots. Or there is the case of Tookie Williams. He was a fucking Nobel Peace Prize WHILE on Death Row! Don't pull this "I'm American so I'm better then you" bullshit. Cuz it won't fly.

Britain, one of the most hypocritical countries on earth, in HISTORY. Woww now I see why we have a break down in communications. Different region, different mentality..

And there you go again with the "America = #1" you're country is not hypocritical at all? PLEASE! You are either blind, or you're riding too far up Glenn Beck's ass to realize whats going on around you.

I do not care about England.. Most of us here are from the UNITED STATES..

Except not only are you partly wrong, but also ignorant.

God I hope you never go into politics. You would be the sole reason for being attacked the way you view other nations, and peoples.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I think sometimes thats just ignorance of grammar. I think abortion can be attacked without needing to pull on any heart strings. Thats how I prefer it. I think the use of murder and other charged words are just mistakes.

I disagree. While for some that may be true, for the 'pro-life' movement as a whole, they live off propaganda and emotive words such as 'murder' and 'baby'.

I believe on its face thats the truth. But I believe blatant support for abortion would be quite unpopular. I believe that all this "her body her call" is no more then a stance using another stance as a proxy.

The truth of the movement is simple - their aren't any hidden agendas. Keep abortion legal - that's it.

Yes. My major link is the fact that if I rape a woman, spend ten years with her planning the baby, or knock her up after a one nighter only to watch her vanish by morning, my legal recourse in regards to my would be off spring is viewed as exactly the same. In at least two of the above situations I am A victim... Because the vital contribute to the life has no say this is a man's issue. Because your stance runs contrary to your anatomical duties your claims of discrimination, imprisonment, and double standards are actualy null and void. If you aren't having babies that you haven't planned and you are not a rape victim how are your links here personal? Because of a hypothetical attack you might suffer?

I never said I had a personal link to the situation. I've explained again and again why abortion should be legal, leaving any 'personal links' out of it.

When watching the show the narrator said most killers would be paroled wihen a few years. The prisoners also had freedoms unseen in this country. Access to luxuries that boggled my mind and had guards more reminiscent of butlers. Your federal government had accused the man in custody in Scotland for blowing up that plane over Lockerbee yet even he was paroled. How bizarre. I see that there is tolerance for bloodshed in England. You all are numb to it, looking at what the Red Coats have done around the World I see why.....

If you weren't so stupidly prejudiced, we could have an actual discussion. I agree completely on the issue of the bomber, and luxuries of prisons here. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of abortion.

If men were the ones that carried children? But they aren't. I can't think of one life farm where thats the case. Eitherway I would still be anti-abortion. The foundation of the women's movement is having contemporary women do anything contrary to what in years past was deemed either a "woman's role" or woman's work.." If ones body was sovereign one could not be busted for inserting drugs into themselves or institutionalized for self mutilation..

That they aren't isn't the point. I'm simply showing you being pro-choice isn't 'retribution' towards men, or whatever you believe. Male, female, you have the right to do what you want with your own body. Including drugs if you so wish. Don't let it affect me, or others, and I couldn't care less what you do with your own body.

Why is it that whenever the system might not work you just say fuckit all together? Do you know how idiotic that looks to an observer?!
If you claimed something happened to you but you have not done anything to remedy the situation or even report it to the people whos job it is to do something!! a rational person would come to the conclusion that perhaps that person is lying about their experience. But then instead of promoting logic you'll chime in and say "be sensitive, their mind is in disarray, the court should wait 9 years until she calms down then start proceedings with no traditional farms of evidence.." For someone who makes an insanity defense or w/e yo call it your asking for alot in court..

Sure, EVERY woman who doesn't report a rape to the police is lying It's really not as simple as you're making it out to be.

And if you can just drop the rape issue and bury it in yourself just because the police [who you never talked to] routinely dismiss it [even though they actually weren't informed anything happened] how come I can't just say that a lot of women aren't raped at all since i see know prove or even allegations?

Which is why people feel, if they haven't said anything straight away, they shouldn't at all. You can say what you want, with your 'logical, I'm an American male so I'm the best' mindset, but it's simply not true in the real world.

As far as the warrant is concerned I bump into the law frequently enough for it to hurt me. As far as its effectiveness I can testify to you right now that of the men i know who were accused of rape by someone smart enough to inform police, NOT ONE WON THEIR CASE. Of the girls who just told people around town and not the authorities, their accusers remained unincarcerated and unscathed. I have seen that with my own eyes. I know court works and a hell of a lot more times then not IN THIS STATE.

It may do in your state, I'm glad the system works. (Y)

You don't think about anything. You think too much or not at all. Thats why your gender is always the victim of psychological warfare pre-attack and post-attack. We have already demonstrated that with the whole shower of shame nonsense to cleanse the dirtiness.

I love that. So basically, we can't do anything right? And you're trying to tell me you're NOT sexist? How about you tell me how much it's okay for us to think, and we'll listen? That's what us little females are supposed to do, right?

"Cleanse the dirtiness".. omg, save that damn symbolic bullshit for a piece of literature hahaha.

Please, please, go out and be raped. I'm begging you. You say you're not belittling anyones feelings, yet when I explain exactly why something is done - it's symbolic bullshit? No, it's true. It's real life, and it's how thousands of women feel.

Those numbers are startling but i dont understand why you would not quote U.S. numbers in unison. You don't think it could at all be different here? word. true that. indeed..

I don't bring up things I haven't researched so know little about. I've researched abortion, the effects of it, the statistics regarding it. I've researched rape in the UK, the effects of it, the statistics of it, the court systems, the process the police go through etc. I hope to God the figures ARE different in America, but I don't know either way. If you'd like to find figures that's great, but I'm not in America, and thus I hope things are different there.

Belittling?! Look this is what is going on, I have a report of a rape, confidence in her story, and a suspect at large. I aint gonna crack wise on the girl but we must get down to business IMMEDIATELY. effective response is to get a rape kit done, get a description, and then attempt to get that DNA in the system. We then put out an APB on the description she has given us and attempt to scour the area. YOU want ME to coddle her while the suspect is at large then with her not giving details and her having showered want me to put a herculean effort into find the perp as swiftly and successfully as i could with a woman who had preserved the evidence and talked at once?

I understand the 'ideal' situation for the police. But we're talking about rape here, the 'ideal' situation is long gone, this is one of the trickiest things to deal with. Being pushy and wanting everything how you want it here is rarely going to work.

To compound the situation further with the rape already being committed you want me to magically find a way to unrape her. And then there is the issue of not having the DNA to cross run into a data base then her refusal to testify even if we get the perp even through those hurdles. At that to the fact that he may be moving with increasing speed yet remained undetected because she waited awile. He may had even ben in prison and we couldn't make the connection because of no forensics to feed into the computer. The rape has already happened the next course of action is to catch the guy and to prevent it from happening to others. YOU don't get that. From your perspective I am "being a meanie..

Of course I get that - do you think I want something different? The thing is you're living in some magic world. I'm living in the REAL world. Ideally, this wouldn't be an issue, but it is, and all you're doing is showing why you wouldn't make a good police officer for sensitive situations.

Why didn't I a third party not do anything to stop a rape which involves two people who I can't even see? Are you reading what you write? With all the mental trauma you've pointing out their is obviously some damage to the mind and decision making process. I would argue after all you've said that a rape victim might not even have the competence to make a medical decision. That would be a way to veto her abortion choice and most other decisions until her mind recuperated.

LOL, sure, what I'm arguing is to take MORE choices away from them. They are second class citizens, after all.

Also there are plenty of reports of women raping women too.. Men aren't even the only victimizers of women either.. You have no take on that?

Of course I have a take on that, but the issue was pregnancy resulting from rape, thus men being attacked wasn't an issue. I have a problem with ANY rapist, ANY abuser, regardless of gender of attacker or victim.

Now that you bring it up though, male victims of abuse freeze on the witness stand too. Male victims don't come forward...why is that, do you think? I mean, we women are weak and we don't think about our decisioys, or we think too much...what's the excuse for your beloved strong male who doesn't help the police as fully as you'd like?

Do you at least have any legal or moral objections at all to abortion in some situations? You have shown a displeasure for using it as birth control so what would you do to those who do that? How late can a woman have an abortion? Are youto stubborn to condemn it for fear of losing ground outright in the abortion debate?

I've given my stance on abortion many times on this forum, so, no, I'm not 'too stubborn' and I lose no ground in this debate by giving my personal opinion, because the reasons for abortion being legal aren't personal.

Legally, I have no objection to any abortion - I think it should be legal, whatever the case. Morally, I object to abortion in many circumstances. On a personal note, if I were choosing to have sex, I would never have an abortion short of there being a 99% chance I'd die from the pregnancy.

However, I realise just because I feel that way, my view shouldn't automatically affect those who think differently. And, living in the real world, abortion should be legal for 2 main reasons. First, it'd be impossible to lay down a low allowing abortion in the circumstances I believe it to be acceptable. And Second, if abortion were illegal, it wouldn't stop them taking place, it'd simply lead to more lives being lost.

 

[One to Remember]

I brought up the white house burning. You said it didn't happen? Take a look princess

Quite literally I could dutchess. There are still burned areas of the White House and they were left as reminders that though we may live atop Mt. Olympus we are still but mere mortals.

And now I'm sure you have something to say about how it's all wrong, and your great great great grandpa was there and he said different. Typical southerner.

no no it all happened but the Canadian role in the British Empire's military campaigns in the War of 1812 have been greatly exaerated by some sources for decades now. The French North Americans played the bigget role in protecting Canada althought the U.S. would win the war overall. "the Americans won control of Lake Erie in 1813, seized parts of western Ontario, and destroyed the power of Britain's Indian allies both in Canada and in the Southwest"..

We don't have the death penalty either. Nor do a lot of states for that matter. How about those people who are put on death row and are innocent? It's happened lots. Or there is the case of Tookie Williams. He was a fucking Nobel Peace Prize WHILE on Death Row! Don't pull this "I'm American so I'm better then you" bullshit. Cuz it won't fly.

Tookie? Tookie Williams?! LMAO. Tookie is my n@!&% and all but even I know he was guilty.. A nobel peace prize is an annoniment object so i dont know how he became one. I don't recall him wining one either..

I agree there have been mistakes and it sickens me. A governor of ohio or indiana had given permanent stays of execution for its entire death row statewide. In light of past scandals in his state involving corruption and other forms of misconduct I respected his decision.

If you weren't so stupidly prejudiced, we could have an actual discussion. I agree completely on the issue of the bomber, and luxuries of prisons here. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of abortion.

I just think cultural influances may have a factor on your tolerance for abortion. A type of numbness.

That they aren't isn't the point. I'm simply showing you being pro-choice isn't 'retribution' towards men, or whatever you believe. Male, female, you have the right to do what you want with your own body

The only way to restore undisputed sovereignty ofones body is a hystorectomy. Litterally making it impossible for your body to serve its role as a vassal. What does a seperate entity even have to do with your body? A mere cord connects woman to fetus.

Sure, EVERY woman who doesn't report a rape to the police is lying It's really not as simple as you're making it out to be.

i am not saying that but doing the exact oppisate of what needs to be done is a tad suspect.

Which is why people feel, if they haven't said anything straight away, they shouldn't at all. You can say what you want, with your 'logical, I'm an American male so I'm the best' mindset, but it's simply not true in the real world.

stop saying in reality or the real world. Don't depict me as delusional when it is you all that have gone haywire and dilerious. Even if they wait or hurt evidence there is still the issue of est. a patern. If police canget additional testimonies this will help in the vast majority of cases which amount to he said she said. Think about it...

Please, please, go out and be raped. I'm begging you.

no. no booty bandit will violate me. I can fight and if I need to engage in a life and death struggle I will. A man never gives up.. I am not hearin none of that "just do it and i want hear you" bs.. I say to that offer NO DICE.

I understand the 'ideal' situation for the police. But we're talking about rape here, the 'ideal' situation is long gone, this is one of the trickiest things to deal with. Being pushy and wanting everything how you want it here is rarely going to work.

Stop using the word "ideal." I am not an idealist.. You think the oceans flooded the earth and the universe imploded because a rape was commited? Is rape going to effect every single aspect of your life? are you goig to let rape steal your soul? You have tounderstand that the world keeps spinning and life goes on after your rape. You have to understandthat after the rape was succesful we now are racing against the clock here and that swiftness is vital to crime fighting. Thats not getting pushy thats utting it in gear.

Ideally, this wouldn't be an issue, but it is, and all you're doing is showing why you wouldn't make a good police officer for sensitive situations.

My holster has a gun in it not a box of tissues. There is a very god reason for that whether you want to concede that or no. An officer can't play the role of counciler.

Legally, I have no objection to any abortion - I think it should be legal, whatever the case. Morally, I object to abortion in many circumstances. On a personal note, if I were choosing to have sex, I would never have an abortion short of there being a 99% chance I'd die from the pregnancy.

so basically that is the equavilent to "I may disagree with what you say but I will defendto the death your right to say it!" Your trying to be too philosoficul.

And Second, if abortion were illegal, it wouldn't stop them taking place, it'd simply lead to more lives being lost.

based on your logic i could move to legalize rape since a rapist may kill his victim rather then face the stiff sentence for sexual assault..

 

[HBK-aholic]

I just think cultural influances may have a factor on your tolerance for abortion. A type of numbness.

Yet both of our countries have abortion as legal..

i am not saying that but doing the exact oppisate of what needs to be done is a tad suspect.

What needs to be done in your mind, maybe. There are many, many reasons someone may not report a rape to the police.

stop saying in reality or the real world. Don't depict me as delusional when it is you all that have gone haywire and dilerious. Even if they wait or hurt evidence there is still the issue of est. a patern. If police canget additional testimonies this will help in the vast majority of cases which amount to he said she said. Think about it...

No, I will continue to say 'in the real world' because what you're saying is so far from it. Additional testimonies? Sure because MOST attacks happen in front of a group of people watching

no. no booty bandit will violate me. I can fight and if I need to engage in a life and death struggle I will. A man never gives up.. I am not hearin none of that "just do it and i want hear you" bs.. I say to that offer NO DICE.

A man never gives up? Except, you know, the men YOU brought up, who get raped and abused? And it has nothing to do with giving up. Sometimes it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to stop it.

I see you ignored male victims in your previous reply. Didn't quite go with your 'men are awesome and do the right thing' thing, huh?

Stop using the word "ideal." I am not an idealist..

Funniest thing you've said. Apart from 'I'm not sexist', maybe...

You think the oceans flooded the earth and the universe imploded because a rape was commited?

Sure this is exactly what I said.

Is rape going to effect every single aspect of your life?

A HUGE majority of your life, if not every aspect. From relationships to work to health to sleep to social life...ALL can quite easily be changed after that situation.

are you goig to let rape steal your soul? You have tounderstand that the world keeps spinning and life goes on after your rape. You have to understandthat after the rape was succesful we now are racing against the clock here and that swiftness is vital to crime fighting. Thats not getting pushy thats utting it in gear.

How do I not understand the world goes on? YOU have to realise what you may think is the correct way to go won't work in reality. The last thing someone is going to want after a rape is being told what they MUST do by some guy.

My holster has a gun in it not a box of tissues. There is a very god reason for that whether you want to concede that or no. An officer can't play the role of counciler.

Actually, the 2 services ARE combined, to the sense that there are now officers trained specifically for sexual assault situations using 'counselling' techniques. Much more effective at getting someone to speak than your beliefs.

so basically that is the equavilent to "I may disagree with what you say but I will defendto the death your right to say it!" Your trying to be too philosoficul.

What's philosophical about realising I aren't the king of the world, and what I believe personally shouldn't affect the rest of the world, who may thing differently? What's philosophical about wanting to be able to control my life, my body, and not wanting the death toll of women increasing due to illegal abortions?

based on your logic i could move to legalize rape since a rapist may kill his victim rather then face the stiff sentence for sexual assault..

...How, and I mean, really, HOW is that based off my logic?

 

[Hazardous]

Quite literally I could dutchess. There are still burned areas of the White House and they were left as reminders that though we may live atop Mt. Olympus we are still but mere mortals.

Why, you live in China? The US is not the #1 country in the world for a lot of things. In the study for best country in the world to live in, USA came in 11th. Behind Canada, France, and Sweden. Only the guys on Fox News (More fictional then the character of Stephen Colbert) say that they are "The best place in the world"

no no it all happened but the Canadian role in the British Empire's military campaigns in the War of 1812 have been greatly exaerated by some sources for decades now. The French North Americans played the bigget role in protecting Canada althought the U.S. would win the war overall. "the Americans won control of Lake Erie in 1813, seized parts of western Ontario, and destroyed the power of Britain's Indian allies both in Canada and in the Southwest"..

But it was also through the help of the REAL Canadians (the natives) that the British was able to repel them back. Taking Detroit in the process. Neither side ended up losing any land in the end.

Tookie? Tookie Williams?! LMAO. Tookie is my n@!&% and all but even I know he was guilty.. A nobel peace prize is an annoniment object so i dont know how he became one. I don't recall him wining one either..

I was off a little. Had not looked it up since Snoop talked about it. He was NOMINATED for it. Due to his work in solving gang problems between Crips and Bloods. As well as work as a childrens author. Mainly for bringing some peace between C's and B's.

I agree there have been mistakes and it sickens me. A governor of ohio or indiana had given permanent stays of execution for its entire death row statewide. In light of past scandals in his state involving corruption and other forms of misconduct I respected his decision.

Exactly! See, mistkaes happen. There could be a shit load of people on Death Row in LA right now who are innocent.

I know the rest of this was aimed at Becca, but it was here, so I figured why not.

I just think cultural influances may have a factor on your tolerance for abortion. A type of numbness.

We have the same culture. From TV, to clothing, to sports. All of it is the same. People's views on things don't just differ from country to country, but within those individual people as well. Yes there may be some that say Abortion is bad, but there are just as many saying it is not bad. As seen by the fact that it's not illegal.[/quote]

Also, Why is this whole thing about Rape? That's not the only reason women get it done. Of all the people I know who have had one, Rape has never been the reason. Rather, they were not ready, The condom broke and they found out a few months later, or that they were blackout drunk. Didn't know they fucked. There is more then just rape, and making this whole thing about that one situation is only showing one side of the story

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I personally believe that the government should not interfere with the woman's right to choose. I know the arguments of hey you're killing babies! HOW DARE YOU!!!!! ARRGG!!!! Did you ever think of what the WOMAN wanted? If she could afford the baby? Or wait, here's a novel idea, how about if it would save the woman's life? Does she have that right? According to Roe v Wade, she does and that's how it should stay. Fuck those who say it shouldn't be the woman's right. Who the fuck do you think you are? The Morality police? Fuck that shit.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Who the fuck do you think you are? The Morality police?

Well yes, Doug, that's who they think they are.

Face it, this is an issue to which there can be no moral resolution. The people on opposite sides can never come to an agreement. Now, legally, it's another matter. The government can legislate a resolution.....and they did that in 1973. Someday, the anti-choice folks may succeed in getting the issue legislated in a manner that will please them. Let the battle continue.

I'm pro-choice because it seems like the best way to handle the issue, individually and collectively. If a 16 year old girl in the Bronx is pregnant and doesn't want an abortion.....fine and dandy, she legally doesn't have to get one. And if she wants it, she has that choice, too. Personally, I don't feel qualified to decide what she should do, nor do I feel an anti-choice person is qualified to tell her, either. They aren't offering her a choice anyway, they will simply tell her she shouldn't have the abortion.

But if people of opposing opinions are truly expecting to bring everyone on the other side over to their point of view......well, there's going to be a lot of ultimately fruitless arguing in the future, that's for darn sure. You can work on your legislators, but fighting with each other won't get you anywhere.

 

[One to Remember]

Well yes, Doug, that's who they think they are.

how the hell do u know?

Face it, this is an issue to which there can be no moral resolution. The people on opposite sides can never come to an agreement. Now, legally, it's another matter. The government can legislate a resolution.....and they did that in 1973. Someday, the anti-choice folks may succeed in getting the issue legislated in a manner that will please them. Let the battle continue.

I agree with the dissenting justices' opinions.
Associate Justice Byron White:
"I find nothing in the language or history of the Constitution to support the Court's judgment. The Court simply fashions and announces a new constitutional right for pregnant mothers and, with scarcely any reason or authority for its action, invests that right with sufficient substance to override most existing state abortion statutes. The upshot is that the people and the legislatures of the 50 States are constitutionally disentitled to weigh the relative importance of the continued existence and development of the fetus, on the one hand, against a spectrum of possible impacts on the mother, on the other hand. As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court."

Associate Justice William Rehnquist:
"To reach its result, the Court necessarily has had to find within the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment a right that was apparently completely unknown to the drafters of the Amendment. As early as 1821, the first state law dealing directly with abortion was enacted by the Connecticut Legislature. By the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868, there were at least 36 laws enacted by state or territorial legislatures limiting abortion. While many States have amended or updated their laws, 21 of the laws on the books in 1868 remain in effect today."

The courts ruling was not only out of context but at most perhaps out of jurisdiction? Consential sex which is the cause for the vast majority of pregnancies terminated by pregnancy does not take precedence over the need to assure the continuation of live and the continuity of mankind.

I'm pro-choice because it seems like the best way to handle the issue, individually and collectively.

If you have no opinions you should advocate for state or federal decision making process. You can't have an opinion based on not having an opinion.. That is nonsense. Your default reasoning still shows signs of partisanship.

If a 16 year old girl in the Bronx is pregnant and doesn't want an abortion.....fine and dandy, she legally doesn't have to get one. And if she wants it, she has that choice, too.

A 16 year old has no rights unless emancipated. All her decisions are subject to parental revue and veto. From abortion to curfew.. Bad example on your end..

Personally, I don't feel qualified to decide what she should do, nor do I feel an anti-choice person is qualified to tell her, either. They aren't offering her a choice anyway, they will simply tell her she shouldn't have the abortion.

then relinquish your jurisdiction don't way in on it and then say you cant way in on it.

Did you ever think of what the WOMAN wanted? If she could afford the baby? Or wait, here's a novel idea, how about if it would save the woman's life? Does she have that right?

When you get married then divorced then hit up for 2,000 dollar a month alimony will you think about what the woman wants? When you dumped any of your past girlfriends where you thinking about what the woman wanted in every case? We live in a capitalist society so you talking about who can and can't afford blah blah sounds like classism on your end. Should people be forced to leave an etire town because they can't afford to eat? Should one be killed in Beverly Hills because they can't afford gucci?
You sound like animal shelters who euthanize dogs they cant afford to feed or care for. So now your comparing people to dogs?! The only valid and relevant argument you have is in regards to the woman's health. So how many women getting abortions face potential death from birthing complications anyway? Do you even know yourself? As a defender the burden is on you to show how large the number of people meeting your criteria is. Of course you can't though, you don't know much, much of anything..

According to Roe v Wade, she does and that's how it should stay.

It does not allow abortion outright you nitwit.
It has three tiers of regulation:

I. In the first trimester, the state's two interests in regulating abortions are at their weakest, and so the state cannot restrict a woman's right to an abortion in any way.

II. In the second trimester, there is an increase in the risks that an abortion poses to maternal health, and so the state may regulate the abortion procedure only "in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health"

III. In the third trimester, there is an increase in viability rates and a corresponding greater state interest in prenatal life, and so the state can choose to restrict or proscribe abortion as it sees fit ("except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.

However with improving technology tier III is subject to erode more of tier II. At some point regardless of the ruling a point will be reached in which more abortions will be stopped legally w/o violating the SCOTUS ruling then approved via the SCOTUS rulng..

Who the fuck do you think you are? The Morality police?

Who the fuck are you supposed to be? A Field Marshal in the Atheist Liberation Army? The constitution separates church and state and I approve of such. For you to claim this an issue of morality on the side of the opposition is nothing more then your attempt to set up a straw man. You fail simpleton, you fail big time.

Exactly! See, mistkaes happen. There could be a shit load of people on Death Row in LA right now who are innocent.

I believe in review of the review. I believe in automatic appeals for them. I believe the governor, state attorney general, federal AG and perhaps even the president should have to review the cases. I believe a very high burdn of evidence must be used to execute people. I have not felt every execution matches that criteria. I have felt some do.

Why, you live in China? The US is not the #1 country in the world for a lot of things. In the study for best country in the world to live in, USA came in 11th. Behind Canada, France, and Sweden. Only the guys on Fox News (More fictional then the character of Stephen Colbert) say that they are "The best place in the world"

I wish I lived in China so I could kick ome sweat shop worker ass. I am tired of everything I buy from dollar tree breaking withen a day of being bought from the store. Quantity over quality sums of Chinese personal/work ethics. Pathetic really..

My rating is based on immigration. Let all th people clamoring to go here have a ticket to wind up on whatever Sweden's, Canada's, or France's equivalent to Ellis Island. If a majority or half take that ticket I might entertain your statement..

And I love to watch Fox News but I don't learn from Fox News.

We have the same culture. From TV, to clothing, to sports. All of it is the same. People's views on things don't just differ from country to country, but within those individual people as well

Yeah Canada has ripped off America after centuries of being coddled by the "mother country."
Region, culture, history, etc are all variables. They are all to be taken into consideration by those analyzing the decisions and those making the decisions.

Due to his work in solving gang problems between Crips and Bloods. As well as work as a childrens author. Mainly for bringing some peace between C's and B's.

He could make piece because he was in a position to.. He was a founding member of the Crips and at one point their leader. I was not interested in executing him at all really but as far as playing ball with the D.A. if he valued his life that much and had no viable means of escape, or any type of appeal left, it would had been best if he had turned over evidence about the internal workings of the Crips and other internally sensitive issues.

But it was also through the help of the REAL Canadians (the natives) that the British was able to repel them back. Taking Detroit in the process. Neither side ended up losing any land in the end.

And Canada repaid them how? Oooh they got nunna vuut.. one hundred and ninety years later.. Its not about what was gained on a map bu who made the greatest inroads. Taking back land vs receiving back land in ceasefire negotiations is different.

Also, Why is this whole thing about Rape? That's not the only reason women get it done. Of all the people I know who have had one, Rape has never been the reason. Rather, they were not ready, The condom broke and they found out a few months later, or that they were blackout drunk. Didn't know they fucked.

I don't know. Your friends here made that so. I argued that the majority werent about rape, your girl then said that rape was an important factor and that it was under reported, I then said that at least a police report or somethin must be filed reporting a rape, she then said the po po and me were too mean and insensitive to warrant a rape victim letting us in on her horror..
I'd rather see more excuses for abortions declared null then an outright ban if the former was more likely to happen then the latter. You can't not try to save anyone because you can't save everyone. Thats bullshit.

The condom breaking is on the condom maker. I would suggest suing them for child rearing costs. If you drink that much and that bad you need to do so in your home not around people you don't know. The last line of defense against anything is you not a deputy or in your case some mountie. You are at fault. You wanna party hardy at night you better be prepared for the outcome and aftermath cocka doodle doo time..

What needs to be done in your mind, maybe. There are many, many reasons someone may not report a rape to the police.

then you will deal with the consequences for not leaving a paper trail of events or clarifying things that our subject to speculation. And this is where you go "but, but, its hard in this world for a girl.."
All your reasons are moot.

No, I will continue to say 'in the real world' because what you're saying is so far from it. Additional testimonies? Sure because MOST attacks happen in front of a group of people watching

no fool.. you did not read properly. In some cases were evidence is lacking but the woman proceeds she still loses. With additional testimonies from other victims who before feared not being believed the outcome of a successful convictions goes up drastically.

A man never gives up? Except, you know, the men YOU brought up, who get raped and abused? And it has nothing to do with giving up. Sometimes it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to stop it.

I see you ignored male victims in your previous reply. Didn't quite go with your 'men are awesome and do the right thing' thing, huh?

Then they need to fight to the death.. Regardless of how many men are raped they usually don't continue as illogical puppets after the fact. I am sure there is a struggle. There is an expectation of return fire. With a woman as soon as she believes she is going to be raped she begins negotiations to assure that at least her life will be spared. She makes a bargain before its even possible that all hope is lost.. that is a means to an end and i will allow it to become an accepted form of logic. If your number 1 goal is self preservation, don't consult Becca..

Funniest thing you've said. Apart from 'I'm not sexist', maybe...

I a not an idealist. You are a fool who thinks its okay to make headway through he judiciary system through extrajudicial means.
You bring up sexism in gender neutral issue more times then Al Sharpon brings up white people in his day to day routine..

A HUGE majority of your life, if not every aspect. From relationships to work to health to sleep to social life...ALL can quite easily be changed after that situation.

you can look forward to being dumped, release from your job, hospital bills, insomnia, and being a misunderstood recluse.

If you feel those changes are negative, strike a blow for others and turn the perp in. Is it impossible to pout and be unselfish at once? Either way without clarification as to why one behaves that way those results you described above will have consequences for the woman.. Shes digging the hole deeper.

YOU have to realise what you may think is the correct way to go won't work in reality. The last thing someone is going to want after a rape is being told what they MUST do by some guy.

You will reap further consequences then. Compound your own situation..

Actually, the 2 services ARE combined, to the sense that there are now officers trained specifically for sexual assault situations using 'counselling' techniques. Much more effective at getting someone to speak than your beliefs.

Right.. Either way there is still a loss of evidence and reluctance on the victim. They aren't my beliefs. In fact there is a term and a charge that better describes "my" beliefs, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
In fact the acts you described being common knowledge probably increases the rate of attacks. Let me hand you a better shovel..

...How, and I mean, really, HOW is that based off my logic?

You tried to say I was at fault for lives lost due to the complications of unskilled abortion procedure performers. You claimed had i not made it illegal they could go to better trained sources to get an abortion increasing the chances of a safe outcome. I'd say even illegal there are still people performing them who can do it right.. isn't the burden on them to find the better doctors? Illegal or not?

My response was since many rape victims were killed due to fear of being prosecuted, perhaps if the rapist had no charges to face he would be more inclined to let his victim go alive. There thats saving lives your way.. You cater to outlaws I cater to outlaws big whoop. Diff dynamic same results..

 

[HBK-aholic]

then you will deal with the consequences for not leaving a paper trail of events or clarifying things that our subject to speculation. And this is where you go "but, but, its hard in this world for a girl.."
All your reasons are moot.

None of my reasons are 'moot', you just choose not to accept them. Fair enough, I couldn't care less about what you accept or not. She doesn't have to go to the police. She'll do what's right for her. Selfish? Maybe. But there's nothing wrong with it.

no fool.. you did not read properly. In some cases were evidence is lacking but the woman proceeds she still loses. With additional testimonies from other victims who before feared not being believed the outcome of a successful convictions goes up drastically.

Assuming of course there are other victims, and they step forward.

Then they need to fight to the death.. Regardless of how many men are raped they usually don't continue as illogical puppets after the fact. I am sure there is a struggle. There is an expectation of return fire. With a woman as soon as she believes she is going to be raped she begins negotiations to assure that at least her life will be spared. She makes a bargain before its even possible that all hope is lost.. that is a means to an end and i will allow it to become an accepted form of logic. If your number 1 goal is self preservation, don't consult Becca..

LOL, you are so sexist it's almost funny. Have you spoken to every rape victim in the world, male and female? Do you know that women just give up whereas men fight? Of course you don't, you're using your own sexist notions to decide what happens.

I a not an idealist. You are a fool who thinks its okay to make headway through he judiciary system through extrajudicial means.
You bring up sexism in gender neutral issue more times then Al Sharpon brings up white people in his day to day routine..you can look forward to being dumped, release from your job, hospital bills, insomnia, and being a misunderstood recluse.

LMAO, no I bring up sexism when you are so clearly being sexist. This debate has moved far away from abortion for the most point, now you're just coming out with bullshit such as what you said above. You're full of double standards. When women are raped, it's because they're weak, when they don't tell anyone, it's because they're stupid and want to hinder the legal process. But if a man does the same thing? There's nothing he could have done, he would definitely have fought him. LOL, you're pathetic.

If you feel those changes are negative, strike a blow for others and turn the perp in. Is it impossible to pout and be unselfish at once? Either way without clarification as to why one behaves that way those results you described above will have consequences for the woman.. Shes digging the hole deeper.You will reap further consequences then. Compound your own situation..

Is it selfish to stay quiet? Maybe. I think after going through something like that you have the right to think about yourself.

You tried to say I was at fault for lives lost due to the complications of unskilled abortion procedure performers. You claimed had i not made it illegal they could go to better trained sources to get an abortion increasing the chances of a safe outcome. I'd say even illegal there are still people performing them who can do it right.. isn't the burden on them to find the better doctors? Illegal or not?

My response was since many rape victims were killed due to fear of being prosecuted, perhaps if the rapist had no charges to face he would be more inclined to let his victim go alive. There thats saving lives your way.. You cater to outlaws I cater to outlaws big whoop. Diff dynamic same results..

The fact you think they are the same speaks more than anything else I can say. Raping someone and having an abortion are COMPLETELY different. Thus, your examples make no sense.

 

[One to Remember]

None of my reasons are 'moot', you just choose not to accept them. Fair enough, I couldn't care less about what you accept or not. She doesn't have to go to the police. She'll do what's right for her.

They are moot because the system can't work with what ur giving it. stay mum if you want. She can remain a hermit and a coward all day long and set a bad example for young girls.
Right for her? ohhh yeah she asserts her rights after the fact. great timing baby, bravo..

Assuming of course there are other victims, and they step forward.

We have a saying around here "when you assume you make an ass out of u and me. Your always trying to debate with things you cant prove or with hypothetical. I said abortion was wrong u said what if shes raped, i said those numbers are low,you said the numbers were hugely off, i said victims can help each other out, you imply a perp having multiple vics is unlikely. you simply aren't a rational adult..

Have you spoken to every rape victim in the world, male and female? Do you know that women just give up whereas men fight? Of course you don't, you're using your own sexist notions to decide what happens.

i don't really want to speak to them. i am going by victim statements which have a common theme and common denominators. Give in to avoid death. if i know most men i know a valiant struggle began to avoid such assaults.. quit playing the sexist card already.

Raping someone and having an abortion are COMPLETELY different. Thus, your examples make no sense.

my statement was not actually about rape nor abortion. you said i was accountable for the deaths of women who chose to go outside of the law and thus ranito subpar medical standards o the streets. You claimed it was my fault they broke the law and it was the laws fault that they died.
I simply said then if the law lead someone to die perhaps less rape victims who are kidnapped or abducted would be killed if their rapist did not have rape charges to face since he essentially killed them to get rid of evidence. The law drove him to kill that girl, the law drove that girl to die in a botched abortion, there the law is at fault, lets repeal the law to sve lives in both scenario. that makes perfect sense. its stupid as fuck but hey its your world i just play in it..

 

[HBK-aholic]

They are moot because the system can't work with what ur giving it. stay mum if you want. She can remain a hermit and a coward all day long and set a bad example for young girls.
Right for her? ohhh yeah she asserts her rights after the fact. great timing baby, bravo..

I just facepalm every time I read something you say. If you don't go to the police it doesn't make you a hermit, coward, or setting a bad example. The police aren't some magic entity which makes everything better either .

We have a saying around here "when you assume you make an ass out of u and me. Your always trying to debate with things you cant prove or with hypothetical. I said abortion was wrong u said what if shes raped, i said those numbers are low,you said the numbers were hugely off, i said victims can help each other out, you imply a perp having multiple vics is unlikely. you simply aren't a rational adult..

1. I didn't say the numbers were hugely off, I said no one has any idea of the number. I made no statement to whether the numbers are high or low - I have no idea. I said abortion should be legal, whether the numbers are high OR low. Is that clear enough for you?

2. I did not say it was 'highly unlikely', and everyone following the discussion will see that. Aside from you. Feel free to tell me where I said that, though. I could do with being amused as you attempt to spin something else around.

Now that you've finished telling me what I said, and I've finished showing you that I said nothing of the sort, can we go onto the discussion I'm ACTUALLY saying?

i don't really want to speak to them. i am going by victim statements which have a common theme and common denominators. Give in to avoid death. if i know most men i know a valiant struggle began to avoid such assaults.. quit playing the sexist card already.

Oh well if most men you know would do that, it must be true. Males are the phsyically strongest gender - a scientific fact. That being said, how much fight to you expect the average woman to be able to put up, against someone stronger? In most cases he's going to overpower her - regardless of what she can do because that's biology. It has nothing to do with giving up!

my statement was not actually about rape nor abortion. you said i was accountable for the deaths of women who chose to go outside of the law and thus ranito subpar medical standards o the streets. You claimed it was my fault they broke the law and it was the laws fault that they died.

Again, I didn't say it was YOUR fault. My belief is that I don't want women having to go to such lengths to gain an abortion. Deaths WILL occur - if terminating a foetus is wrong to you, how is this acceptable? I don't want women being rushed to hospital with symptoms caused by this - possibly dying. I don't want to, as NorCal so nicely put it, open my trashcan to find the remains of a dead foetus inside it.


What you don't seem to understand is that going for an abortion is a desperate choice in most cases. I know there are the minority who prove that statement wrong and go for countless abortions - and I despise them, but in many cases, if a woman is desperate enough to go for an abortion, and risk the long-term effects of that, the likelihood is she'll be desperate enough to go for one regardless of legality, and thus safety. Why lose her life when we don't have to?

I simply said then if the law lead someone to die perhaps less rape victims who are kidnapped or abducted would be killed if their rapist did not have rape charges to face since he essentially killed them to get rid of evidence. The law drove him to kill that girl, the law drove that girl to die in a botched abortion, there the law is at fault, lets repeal the law to sve lives in both scenario. that makes perfect sense. its stupid as fuck but hey its your world i just play in it..

LOL that is not my world. Seriously, the only person this parallel is making sense to is you.

 

[The Doctor]

"The Doctor?" More like the Quack..

Clever.

how do you figure its not the government's right to regulate or prohibit drinking?

I dunno man, I'm kind of a fan of the people choosing what they want to do, for better or for worse.

Did not the representatives to the then House and then Senate get for the most part (i only say "most" because Senators probably;y had been their for the long haul) voted in by the people? Yet as soon as the bootlegging began we saw no turn around in congress and obviously the house which elects every 2 years. Perhaps the uproar came from a vocal minority?

I'm not going to sit here and argue about the 1920s.

Abortion can be based on moral views but does not necessarily need to be. Human rights, civil rights, etc are good defenses.

You said that it shouldn't be based on Moral Views. That's what I think. Someone's moral views of "It's killing a baby! God says it's wrong!" should NOT dictate the law. Can they dictate whether someone gets an abortion or not? Yes. But it should not be the basis of a law.

that would be like telling a Kennedy "don't like assassinations? Don't seek the presidency!" or even closer to home telling the Central Park Jogger "Don't like gang rapes? Don't get raped by gangs.."

Hardly, dude. There's kind of a big difference between not having an abortion (a personal choice) and getting killed or raped (something forced on you).

 

[One to Remember]

I dunno man, I'm kind of a fan of the people choosing what they want to do, for better or for worse.

then i suggest you pack your bags and move to Somalia where everyone does them..

I'm not going to sit here and argue about the 1920s.

i dont care what year, century, or decade it is, your congressman is your congressman. Those living under prohibition contributed to prohibition..

You said that it shouldn't be based on Moral Views. That's what I think. Someone's moral views of "It's killing a baby! God says it's wrong!" should NOT dictate the law.

Yes I did.. It CAN be but mine NEVER will be..
The law has Protestant elements in from the early colonial days. They secularized religious laws. You shouldn't oppose something because you deem its supporters to religious either.

Hardly, dude. There's kind of a big difference between not having an abortion (a personal choice) and getting killed or raped (something forced on you).

If you want to have sex deal with the consequences. All that vibratin and shakin and twitchin comes at a cost you know. If you like sex that much get your tubes tied or deal with the obvious results of sex which is new life... and why the hell are you waiting 2 weeks to respond Doc?

 

[Xemmy]

then i suggest you pack your bags and move to where everyone does them..


i dont care what year, century, or decade it is, your congressman is your congressman. Those living under prohibition contributed to prohibition.. Yes I did.. It CAN be but mine NEVER will be..
The law has Protestant elements in from the early colonial days. They secularized religious laws. You shouldn't oppose something because you deem its supporters to religious either.If you want to have sex deal with the consequences. All that vibratin and shakin and twitchin comes at a cost you know. If you like sex that much get your tubes tied or deal with the obvious results of sex which is new life... and why the hell are you waiting 2 weeks to respond Doc?

Sweet Evil Jesus. Don't you ever shut up?

First- Why does it have to be a third world country?
Why not move to the Netherlands?
And Second, because I couldn't care less about the shit from a century ago, yes a new life is the result of sex. As a matter of fact, the sperm itself is already alive. So I guess it's not new life, just life starting to "metamorphosize". Which is why I still fail to see how I'm suppose to except the idea that before the guy has time to get up and get a towel there is a third person in the room. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.....until 29 weeks have passed. Then you should name the ejaculation. Phil's a good name.

And it took him two weeks because
1. Not everyone has time for mental-home sexists.
2. He was spouting off an opinion, not charging in for debate.

And I'm sorry. I went against my word. BUT I WAS BORED!

 

[The Doctor]

then i suggest you pack your bags and move to Somalia where everyone does them..

I'd rather be living in america, or England, places with pretty good governments that, while may not always make the right decisions in my eyes, are doing the best they can to keep the countries operating smoothly.

Also, why Somalia? Who would want to move there? I mean, haven't you heard the old joke: What do Somalian children do at night? STARVE!! I don't want to starve.

Yes I did.. It CAN be but mine NEVER will be..
The law has Protestant elements in from the early colonial days. They secularized religious laws. You shouldn't oppose something because you deem its supporters to religious either.

Listen man, I'm a really strong Christian. I don't really approve of abortion except in special circumstances. BUT I don't believe in restricting humanity's freedom to choose. If you want to get all religious on me, did God not grant mankind free will, and the ability to follow God or walk away from Him? He wouldn't want our lives to be down a little pathway where everything is decided for us. He loves us so that we humans are allowed to make choices and deal with the consequences of those choices, good and bad.

If you want to have sex deal with the consequences. All that vibratin and shakin and twitchin comes at a cost you know.

I agree and think that people shouldn't get abortions except when they're raped. I've told you, I don't support abortion. However I DO support FREEDOM.

If you like sex that much get your tubes tied or deal with the obvious results of sex which is new life...

Or wear a condom, or get your partner to do so?

and why the hell are you waiting 2 weeks to respond Doc?

I have this thing called college. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it involves lots of study and homework and power metal. It's fun, but it kind of saps my desire to post nonspam from time to time.

 

[One to Remember]

Sweet Evil Jesus. Don't you ever shut up?

no my mouth has been running rougly non stop since 1998.

First- Why does it have to be a third world country?

it doesn't. Somalia isn't a country it just is. Its like the land version of "international waters.." its just an area of teritory where there are no rules, no regulation, just freedom to do you. You might need some fire power though..

Why not move to the Netherlands?

who wants to go Dutch anymore?

yes a new life is the result of sex. As a matter of fact, the sperm itself is already alive. So I guess it's not new life, just life starting to "metamorphosize".

i dont believe that. I mean perhaps alive in the same sense that a white blood cell or a finger nail or a cold is. as I said before if its so alive why can't we just make people without the use of an egg? why can't we just skip that step and implant the sperm? Half a person aint very much of a person at all. Your getting quite technical..

Which is why I still fail to see how I'm suppose to except the idea that before the guy has time to get up and get a towel there is a third person in the room. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.....until 29 weeks have passed.

shut the fuck up about jacking off already. What is that the national pass time at your house? is that what you and your old man do when your spending quality time together? hate to sleep over at ur house..

Then you should name the ejaculation. Phil's a good name.

i am not naming anything until whatever being named has established itself. Even the name on my kids birth certificate will probably be preliminary.

And it took him two weeks because
1. Not everyone has time for mental-home sexists.
2. He was spouting off an opinion, not charging in for debate.

and it took you two weeks because you were overseeing a holocaust in your penis? I am going to suggest to your mom that she remove the lock from your bed room door and the bathroom door.

I'd rather be living in america, or England, places with pretty good governments that, while may not always make the right decisions in my eyes, are doing the best they can to keep the countries operating smoothly.

the thing about Somalia is I think its more or less a libertarians dream. Everyone does what they wanna do, whenever, however, freedom all day long, no government raining on any ones parade.

What do Somalian children do at night? STARVE!! I don't want to starve.

no i never heard that one that was a good one though hahaha. I talk to these Somalis alot i gotta tell that shit lol.

Listen man, I'm a really strong Christian. I don't really approve of abortion except in special circumstances. BUT I don't believe in restricting humanity's freedom to choose. If you want to get all religious on me, did God not grant mankind free will, and the ability to follow God or walk away from Him?

No I don't want to get all religious but if you wanna be all religious let me get you back on track..I don't believe your bible permits any type of abortion. Your bible also says respect the law of the land. It does not say however that you must champion the laws of the land or that you can not work to change them. God did grant us free will, we can walk walk toward him or away from Him. YOU walk towards HIM, so you through your own submission to the Lord have quite a few more restrictions then most in terms of principles and actions.
Your putting your own beliefs over God when you could just as easily have them run along side him. Your one of those new Christians.. Your a Burger King Christian cause you wanna have it your way.
If you wanna promote humanity's rights to choose fine, but don't try to remain Christian. Don't try to have your cake and eat it too. I am going to go ahead and call a spade a spade, your a fucking heretic. I don't care because I don't adhere to the bible or God's rule but still you essentially are a heretic. Either move against abortion or cease your phony commitment to your church, that simple.

I agree and think that people shouldn't get abortions except when they're raped. I've told you, I don't support abortion. However I DO support FREEDOM.

Thats the down side to being a Christian, if your legit you never have too much room to wiggle when it comes to social issues, yet here you are bending rules to try to be two conflicting things. You through proxy support abortion. You can either support the abolition of current abortion laws or you can remain neutral. Its when you try to be Mr. Constitutional Principles that you fall out of compliance with your Christian Church.

Or wear a condom, or get your partner to do so?

indeed.

I have this thing called college. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it involves lots of study and homework and power metal. It's fun, but it kind of saps my desire to post nonspam from time to time.

wow i didn't know the local 2 year year junior college was overwhelming you that badly. Maybe you should transfer to job corps or some shit lol

 

[Xemmy]

no my mouth has been running rougly non stop since 1998.

Fair enough.

it doesn't. Somalia isn't a country it just is. Its like the land version of "international waters.." its just an area of teritory where there are no rules, no regulation, just freedom to do you. You might need some fire power though..

Point being. Third World. Thanks for the free lesson though.

who wants to go Dutch anymore?

I do.

i dont believe that. I mean perhaps alive in the same sense that a white blood cell or a finger nail or a cold is. as I said before if its so alive why can't we just make people without the use of an egg? why can't we just skip that step and implant the sperm? Half a person aint very much of a person at all. Your getting quite technical..

You know, just because you "believe" something doesn't make it true. A finger nail is dead btw. You make it sound like there is such a thing as "becoming more alive". Other than in abstract mental sense there isn't such a thing. Something is either alive or dead. With the exception of Viruses ofcourse.

shut the fuck up about jacking off already. What is that the national pass time at your house? is that what you and your old man do when your spending quality time together? hate to sleep over at ur house..

I haven't mentioned masterbation in awhile. No one said anything about jacking off. Just an act that occurs in sex and masterbation. And no, it's not the national pass time at my house. It's the national pass time at EVERYONE's house. A majority of people do it.

And I'm a grown man. Why are we bringing up sleepovers at my house!?
You seem to have alot deep rooted needs you're trying to project onto me.

i am not naming anything until whatever being named has established itself. Even the name on my kids birth certificate will probably be preliminary.

I'm not calling anything a person until whatever it is has established itself.
All it has to do is answer to the qualifications on the "big list".

and it took you two weeks because you were overseeing a holocaust in your penis? I am going to suggest to your mom that she remove the lock from your bed room door and the bathroom door.

Sleep overs, me jacking off, my mother and father, my house, and finally my penis. Along with the assumtion that I'm your age.

You seem to be subconciously fantasizing about me and my life. I'm sure it's making you scared and confused, and it woud also explain your hate for women that dare to think their bodies are their own.

 

[One to Remember]

Point being. Third World. Thanks for the free lesson though.

What makes it third world? In this context i think your usage of Third World amounts to a slur...

You know, just because you "believe" something doesn't make it true. A finger nail is dead btw. You make it sound like there is such a thing as "becoming more alive". Other than in abstract mental sense there isn't such a thing. Something is either alive or dead. With the exception of Viruses ofcourse.

look if sperm is soo damn alive why doesn't it just go out and do its own thing? the next time uve barricaded your self in the W.C. i would suggest you have a heart to heart with them. tell the sperm its time to go out, grow up, get n apartment and a parttime job. Don't worry about that egg anymore just tell that sperm to ride solo for awile. How long will it "continue" living?

All it has to do is answer to the qualifications on the "big list".

there are lots of things kids cant dothat teenagers can do, there are lots of things adults cant do that the elderly can no longer do. If we let you set up such moving criteria we could use your methods to declare anything about anyone depending on age..

I haven't mentioned masterbation in awhile. No one said anything about jacking off. Just an act that occurs in sex and masterbation. And no, it's not the national pass time at my house. It's the national pass time at EVERYONE's house. A majority of people do it.

we dont do that corny shit in my house. if i cant find the proper outlet for my plug then I am calling it a night. you masterbate during sex too? LMMFAO omfg
Eitherway if i were to accept your logic on a technical premise that it was genocide I would have to say the same of sex too. I mean sending 75,000 sperms into that miner's shaft with only 1 to 2 having a shot, that sounds like certain death. my theory is this, if sperm is by itself life in our sense then it might as well just bypass the egg and implant itself singularly. if asperm stayed in the woman for 9 months nothing would come of it, you call that equal to a fertilized egg?

Sleep overs, me jacking off, my mother and father, my house, and finally my penis. Along with the assumtion that I'm your age.

all this masterbation business was your idea of a retort.. your like a giant walking talking Comedy Central teen movie cliche man.

Your like (some wannabe) Christopher Hitchins meets American Pie, come to think of it.

You seem to be subconsciously fantasizing about me and my life. I'm sure it's making you scared and confused, and it would also explain your hate for women that dare to think their bodies are their own.

blah blah blah. your probably some fat guy who masquerades as some pseudo-intellectual all day who quotes various atheists sources and Yoda all day long from your '70s recliner with various food stains of unknown origins, a few pieces of stale pop corn in your beard, and some over priced replica wrestling belt draped over your left shoulder blade as you face your computer and your web cam broadcasts your filth to the world.

I have no hate for women sir. I am simply an oponent of the practice of abortion. Nothing more nothing less. There is nothig wrong with saying a woman's body is not hers when she becomes pregnant. maybe that makes them feel different, maybe that makes them feel like the odd man out, I don't know, but advances in social standing will not change the evolutionary or anatomical components of humanity as it is today. Rather then accept this reality, in an attemp to gain ground in some type of battle of the sexes most people have NOT since my grandfather's day, been interested in, all this "my body my whatever" is fine most of the time.

You care so damn much about a woman's body go to the middle east, go to a woman's penitentiary. there bodies are in danger every day. Go make a difference hero.

You know who needs help? Women suffering from female genital mutilation! Those women need their bodies protected. Go there Zorro help them, don't try to respoil a bunch of already spoiled Westerners who don't wanna man up to their responsibilities and their accountability.

 

[Dagger Dias]

This is an issue that will probably never be resolved. We all have the right to believe what we want, but most people are very adamant on where they stand when it comes to abortion. I personally am against it because it's murder. You are killing something that is alive. Last time I checked, that's illegal. Abortion should be as well for that reason. Chances are someone's going to disagree with me.... but that is where I stand on the issue.

 

[LSN80]

First off, Im going to add that Im strongly Pro-Life. But that's a personal choice we've made, that if my wife and I ever get pregnant, even if were not ready(and were not), that we'll keep the baby.

The reason i feel so strongly about being pro-life is that i was adopted myself. My birth mother was 18, and the father split when he found out she was pregnant. My birth mother couldn't afford to raise us on her own, and had no family support, so she put me and my twin sister up for adoption. I thank God every day for that, because Im alive due to my mother's "choice" to carry us full term. I was adopted into a family where my adoptive parents couldn't have kids, yet they loved us like we were their own.

Obviously, there are exceptions. When a woman is raped, the last thing she needs is a constant reminder of that rape inside of her every day. To say a woman should have to live with that, on a daily basis, should be noone's choice but her own. She's been through enough already.

On the converse, if you were willing to plant your seed, live with the consequences. if you're not ready to be a parent, there are plenty of willing and loving people out there who can't have kids that would gladly adopt. My parents are proof positive of that.

Okay if thats one of your justifications then I don't see why you added anything subsequent to it, if its a woman's right then nuff said aye?


I don't have a job and I AM LAZY and i am a bendge eating hog but if I got a little me runnin' around you better believe I'm gonna get him sum food or give him 3 quarters of my plate. People aren't ready for a whole bunch of things. Thats like a person im not ready to learn how to swim yet but i still think the Navy should accept me in its ranks. You was ready to get boned, be ready to run a home.

I think that hardly qualifies you to be a suitable parent. My birth mother was, as you say, "ready to be boned", and yet, there was no feasible way that she could have afforded us. I didn't grow up in the lap of luxury, but I was afforded a far better life due to adoption then if she would have raised us, as twins, by herself. This tunnel vision is such a detriment. Tell that to a 14 year old who made a mistake.

As far as birth control or condom failures thats too bad. You might be able to consult an attorney on that issue with the former and MAYBE the latter but abstinence is the only sure way to avoid having a kid. Safe sex is sometimes as dangerous as sex sex..

Im not sure what the relevance is here. What does consulting an attorney have to do with parenthood, or abortion? Yeah, there's always the inherent risk of getting someone pregnant when youve had sex. Ive had a few scares in my day. A couple of the girls, if the test had come back positive, I would have wanted them badly to get an abortion if adoption wasn't something they were willing to do.

The vast majority of abortions have no rape component. Its an attempt to take translated a minority issue into a viable hypothetical dynamic for a majority. The penalty for rape is probation or 15-30 years in prison.. Furthermore its sometimes a herculean effort to even prove rape

.

You tell that to a woman that was raped, and see what she has to say. Even if the vast majority of abortions have no rape component, what do you tell the "minority" of women that do? Too bad, so sad? I don't think you understand or comprehend the damage it can do to a woman knowing shes carrying around the child of a man that violated her in the worst way she can be violated.

She also has the option of the plan b/morning after pill. Its not like he held her captive in a dungeon days after. Either way that's out of the kids control and everyone has a rapist in their lineage if they investigate hard enough.

The morning after pill isn't proven to work all the time. You have to consider state of mind too when a woman is raped. Its a traumatic experience, and one where the woman isnt always thinking straight. Do you know anyone whose been raped? I do. The LAST thing on their minds often was whether or not they're pregnant. What youre saying is insensitive at best and almost cruel.

What about incest? Depending on what state you live in and the situation you and/or the other party face criminal charges not the offspring. Are FDR's children ******ed since he and Eleanor had the same grandparents..? All this incest=mutant babies business has been largely disprovin. Incest kills diversity but the child suffers because you were of bad genetic stock not because your brother is ur uncle. Non incest relationships dilute what YOUR FAMILY ALREADY HAD which was poor genetics..

Incest is also a reminder of a really f---ed up decision that was made. Im sorry, but if an impressionable young woman has sex with her uncle, how do you purport the child be raised? With the woman and the uncle together? It seems your throwing all the responsibility on the woman, when the man is every bit as much, if not more at times, to blame.

How is her life ruined? Who can prove were the kid came from and why would she tell if it meant that much to her? There are women out here with 8 kids all colors of the rainbow who have gone their entire lives without being asked where those kids came from or were is the dad at.. She can avoid the stigma if she so chooses.. promiscuity vs incest, whichever you think will make you less of a pariah..

Lives are often ruined because the woman can't handle the day to day stigma. In a picture perfect world, sure, everyone would be accepting and receptive. But that's not the case. There's no comparison between promiscuity and incest. My little sister was adopted from a different mother, and i can say, objectively, that she's beautiful. The thought of sleeping with her would still disgust me. There's a huge difference.

there are people far worse off that lived for decades yet there is no legal mechanism to set them to pasture.. Mercy killings usually only fly with animals.. And how is living ive years a bad thing? If you were simply a hundred you might prey for 5 years, if you had cancer and they said five years you'd be happier then if they said 5 months.. that makes no sense how half a decade more of life is good but just a half period is bad.. Time is time, all particles of sand in the hour glass are precious and equal in value.

That's totally irrelevant here. Those "people" that lived for decades "far worse off" had thoughts, feelings, hopes, dreams, and emotions. Fetuses do not. You may be right that "time is time', but there is a large difference between a living person, and a living fetus. While God may look at each the same, we as a society do not. We live in a imperfect world, and abortion, sadly, has helped save alot of trauma, abuse, and ineptitude. While Ill always be pro-life, there are always extinuating circumstances.

Secular societies do not allow murder. All killings at some point subject to be regarded as murder in states with laws and adequate jurisdictional enforcement. You don't have to be religious at all to approve of abortion. You implying that is essentially setting up a straw man. Murder is a legal concept not a religious one.

No, but they do allow people the right to self-defense. That's how I view someone whose been raped and decides to have an abortion.They're defending themselves from a life of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's just too heavy handed and cruel to make a woman carry around a child birthed under these circumstances. And murder became a legal concept after it was a religious one, but thats not really relevant to this thread. What is relevant is that the law allows for abortion, and thats not going to change. And while religion frowns on abortion, there's nothing documented, at least in the Bible, regarding it.

They don't always get adopted ever. Some babies are valued more then others. The only babies being adopted need to be ones who have dead parents or dangerous parents. The orphanage does not need to be hers and his' reset button. I do not approve of adoption I must declare.

Then, honestly, you're a dumbass. I was adopted at 4 weeks old, and am so thankful to this day for that fact. Unless your in that situation, I dont see how you can talk about it. My birth mother loved us enough that she knew that she couldnt care for me and my twin, so she had us adopted to loving parents who could. She wasn't hitting the reset button, she was doing what was best. Not everything in life is about "facing the consequences." Sometimes, its about "what's best for all parties involved." And I defy you to make the argument me being adopted out of a non-dangerous situation was a bad thing.

 

[Arkham Noir]

People always get so damn passionate about this topic.

This simply is always going to boil down into people's views of right and wrong. Just like gay marriage, people will always bring up little stuff to explain why it is wrong,even when it's completly subjective. People like to defend that getting an abortion is akin to murder. Yet answer me this, why is it alright to kill millions of animals evry year so that we can eat them? Its such incredible bull shit. Human lives aren't all that much more sacred than an animals life , yet we kill them because, to quote The Joker "It's all part of the plan,nobody ever panics when things go according to plan".


I say that if our society is willing to kill anything that isn't human without a second thought, than a women should be able to decide whether or not she wants to commit to a child for the rest of her life. Some people are put in positions where they are left with so few options that I would never want to see them denied the option of abortion because of people's views (The same people who have never in a million year's been in their positions). People deserve freedom. Freedom of choice falls into that.