PILEDRIVERS?

[LCShazardous]

Start to ban moves. moves like the piledriver, SSP, 45o splash or really any move that could be considered sick or amazing. Granted the shooting star press is no longer banned but when i watch someone get taken down by a finisher i want it to seem like that move could knock them out and end there career. now i understand if a wrestler is to scared to take a piledriver variation but for the guys who are good enough to take the move well, let them take the move don't put a ban on piledriver's or r other cool high impact moves.

if u wanna c a move i would consider a finisher, look at a wrestler named super dragon. his finishers are the psycho driver's and each one if abso-fucking-lutley brutal. they look like they could knock u out. i don't think anyone would be knocked out by an attitude adjustment and if u get hit by a swanton i think u would just roll around in pain it would'nt knock u out unless u landed on their head.

This is why i like CM punk. His finisher isn't a driver yet looks like it could knock u out cold

what do u people think of the piledriver ban? should the ban be lifted? any other notes would be nice. so discuss?

 

[hellfirebrian85]

I feel if the two wrestlers agree upon the spot, then they should be able to use any finisher they both agreed upon. I don't like bans on any move. Well unless it's really gay like the Broncobuster and Stink Face.

 

[ccotreau1]

Let me answer the piledriver ban questions with a question of my own: Does Undertaker still do the Tombstone Piledriver? If so, then the ban should be lifted because I do not think it is fair for one wrestler to do it and not the others, despite the fact that it is Undertaker.

 

[jmudbake]

Nope, look at Steve Austin, its a dangerous move, that basically started the end of Austins career. Owen didn't mean too, but they're both absolutely amazing, and it still ended well, remember, even the best pros mess up from time to time, and the SSP is only unbanned after Evan Borne showed he could do it repeatedly to Vince McMahon without messing up, but the reason it was banned was because Kidman messed up on Chavo. And he'd been doing it ten + years. Any move is dangerous, it just depends on how lucky you are to avoid getting injured really.

 

[HypnotizedHero2010]

well if you look at the way the undertaker does the piledriver, there head is no where near the mat. it looks way too fake. and as long as both wrestlers agree to the move then i dont see a point in banning anything. i understand if one wrestler thinks its too risky then dont do it.

 

[Sasori]

Yeah it should, just like some dude already pointed out 'Taker still uses the Tomb Stone PILE DRIVER, I repeat, PILE DRIVER! It's not fair to other guys but sometimes it's not worth the risk, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know how 'Taker hasn't botched the Tomb Stone yet.

 

[Dexter]

They're welcome to ban anything they want to. I love my wrestling but I sure as hell don't expect any of them to take unwise risks for my entertainment. Piledrivers have proven time and time again to be a very dangerous and even potentially lethal maneuver.

And it's not fair to say "if they agree on it, let them do it" because imagine the pressure that puts on the individual wrestler. He may not want to put himself at risk by taking a piledriver but he may also feel pressured to do so anyway because refusing to take it is entirely on him, and backstage attitude is such a HUGE thing. He doesn't want to come off as a pussy, so he agrees, and gets his neck broken.

Nah, let em ban it. Even for 'Taker. It's a few seconds of entertainment for me versus the rest of their lives in a wheelchair. Not worth it.

 

[Thugz417]

ANY move has the potential to go wrong.. Case and point..

Sid doing the top rope big boot breaking his leg.
Kaz Hayashi, i believe it was back in WCW with the "jung Dragons" (spell check) broke his foot doing a monkey flip.
HHH even injured a guy years ago with a botched Pedigree.
HBK has been injured being thrown over the top rope

Need more? Go to youtube and look up botched wrestling moves. No one can predict when a move will be messed up. Next we wont want them running because of Edge's injury.

I do believe in airing on the side of caution but the stars know the risks. They are well aware of what they are getting into.

As far as the Undertaker being the only one to use the Piledriver in WWE. I think that's fine.

HHH uses the Pedigree
Randy Orton uses the RKO
HBK uses sweet chin music.

Signature moves people.

HOWEVER I disagree with WWE claiming the move is "Ban". They should simply say that the piledriver is Takers finisher and no one else should use it because if people kick out of it from someone else using it why can't they when the dead man uses it.

========

I hate to say this but I'm against a lot of the high risk moves. Especially with BIGGER stars. By bigger I mean weight wise. EVERYTIME Kane comes off the top rope i cringe because I'm always worried that will be the one time that his ankle just snaps.

When Taker dove over the top rope and landed on his head I was amazed he got up. He was very lucky.

Brock Lesnar's attempted shootin star press nearly killed him.
Quote taken directly from Ric Flair: "that move would have killed any other human being" (taken from WWE Wrestlemania 20 extras The Mania of Wrestlemania)

As I said before the stars know the risks. The $ isn't as great as it once was from what many stars have said. But for those guys that enjoy the travel the risk is worth the reward.

 

[Dexter]

Sure, anything can go wrong at any time. But that doesn't excuse unnecessary risks. I mean, the fact that an arm drag takedown could dislocate a shoulder doesn't make it ok to drop a 300 pound man on his head. Ya know?

 

[CJ The Pirate]

The Piledriver is far far too risky and has been the cause of too many injuries. Noone can perform the piledriver and be in complete control over it.

The tombstone piledriver is a completely different move. It is much more controlled and it is also performed by a big man. Most victims of the Tombstone never have their head underneather Undertaker's knee's when it is being delivered. His knee's hit the floor before the head is spiked. With a traditional piledriver this is not possible. You leave the floor and the head needs to be perfectly in position to avoid injury. The piledriver always causes actual pain. Ask any wrestler. Ask Jim Carrey. Jerry Lawler nailed him with it at Carrey's requst whilst filming Man on the Moon. Nearly knocked him out apparantly.

SSP is granted to WWE wrestlers provided they can prove themselves capable of a certain amount of control. I think they have to sign something. Evan Bourne and John Morrison are in this catagory.

As for finishers need to look like they'd hurt. Have you ever felt the pain caused by a Swanton Bomb or an FU. Remember, Wrestling IS supposed to be real. Despite all this sports entertainment nonsense, it's still a show. Randy Orton seriously tried to end peoples careers with the punt. So the FU is simply a throw to the floor. The ring isn't protected as much in kayfabe. It's meant to hurt a lot more than it does.

I've fallen out of tree about a year ago. It took me about a minute, maybe more before I moved. Granted I'm not that fit but the point is still valid. You don't have to be kicked or dropped on your head to be immobile for 3 seconds.

 

[Decarow]

Piledrivers are way to risky. Taker still does his cus, well, he's the Undertaker lol. He's been with the company for almost 20 years. He's been doing it since November 1990. Vince trusts he can do it.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

This is why i like CM punk. His finisher isn't a driver yet looks like it could knock u out cold

You know, its fake. Everyone knows that its fake. What the point of having a real looking finisher. If it looks good and can be pulled off safely isnt that enough. Because in the real world, the first few punches that Cena throws in the match would knock Orton out cold. But its about entertainment.

Let me answer the piledriver ban questions with a question of my own: Does Undertaker still do the Tombstone Piledriver? If so, then the ban should be lifted because I do not think it is fair for one wrestler to do it and not the others, despite the fact that it is Undertaker.

I hate bold posts. Anyways, Taker has been wrestling for well over 20 years now. He has the experience to not break someones neck. Also, the Tombstone piledriver is a completely different variation that keeps the opponents head above the mat on impact. The regular piledriver had ended careers.
And to your suggestion that it wasnt fair? Fair? Fuck fair. He's the Undertaker. He does what he wants.

Nothing Funny in this post. This post blows.

 

[Slam Master]

Shawn Michaels piledrived John Cena on the stairs 2 years ago at WM23 and the Undertaker still does the tombstone..

 

[stillboy21]

Shawn Michaels piledrived John Cena on the stairs 2 years ago at WM23 and the Undertaker still does the tombstone..

Well like its already been said about The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels has been around long enough to probably do whatever he wants. Same goes for Kane. And plus for the WM 23 match that move had probably been rehearsed a few times before the match. Here's a little fun fact about the pile-driver, if you use it in a match in Memphis, Tennessee and Mexico you will automatically get disqualified from the match.

 

[YoYoYumba]

You know I want to say something off topic for a min, I've been looking at some of these posters you guys have the bottom of your posts and one of the best has to be chick that Sasori has on his. What a champ.
Neway I wouldn't have a problem with the piledriver ban being lifted to be honest. If the Undertaker can do his tombstone then I don't see what's wrong with other wrestlers ,who ofcourse are obviously professionally trained athlethes, doing the piledriver. As has been mentioned on here before, finishing moves or moves leading up to finishing moves are meant to look awesome to the crowd. It gives more to the match and makes fan's get into the matches more. Wrestlers are professionally trained and are aware of the risks they take when they enter the ring so lets just get on with the show and see more of the high flying moves etc. It's supposed to be entertainment isn't it? If the wrestler's practice their moves over and over a million times, plus all the training they do and factor in if they feel confident with excuting the planned moves then they should go for it. There's always risks involved, even when doing moves that aren't even considered that risky.

 

[CJ The Pirate]

Oh My God! Do you people not watch what happens during these moves. Tombstone is not a standard Piledriver. Just like the Fishermans suplex is not the same as a northern lights Suplex or a German Suplex. They are all SEPERATE moves! They are all performed in different ways and so the risk factors change. The german suplex causes an opponent to fall primarily on their neck whereas the other two and most other suplexes are upper back effective. So if they were to ban the German Suplex, would you want all other suplexes banned too? No.

A standard piledriver can LEGITIMATELY hurt you.

A standard piledriver HAS LEGITIMATELY injured people. Frequently.

A Tombstone has not, to my knowledge, been the direct result of injury.

 

[Dexter]

I don't disagree on any particular point, CJ. It IS a different move. But the fact remains that it's dropping someone straight down on their head. As for no one getting hurt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QiyQ8Le3Xc

They call this a Tombstone on the broadcast. They even mentioned Undertaker by name. Doesn't look like exactly the same move to me but that's what they call it. Did 'Taker change the way he performs the move at some point, switching from the full sit down to the knee drop he does now? I don't know. Maybe they're referring to the way he holds him belly to belly as opposed to belly to back like a traditional piledriver?

Anyway, watching this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqHFPkN564

...I still see major potential for disaster here. Moreso than I would personally consider reasonable for a scripted sports entertainment exhibition. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Let me answer the piledriver ban questions with a question of my own: Does Undertaker still do the Tombstone Piledriver? If so, then the ban should be lifted because I do not think it is fair for one wrestler to do it and not the others, despite the fact that it is Undertaker.

I believe Undertaker still does the move occasionally. However, he is given special treatment because he is regarded as a "safe worker". Obviously, I can understand why others may cry "foul" at the preferential treatment, though.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If two guys agree on a spot, then I'm all for it. After the Taker/Mankind HIAC match, McMahon allegedly said that he didn't want Foley to do spots like that again. However, Foley continued to take some high risk bumps in some of his matches. During his HIAC match with Triple H, Foley was backdropped through the top of the cage and to the ring below. Now, while the ring had been rigged, disaster still could've happened.

Any botched move in wrestling can cause serious injury whether it be a dropkick, a suplex, a backdrop and so on and so forth. No matter how long someone has been wrestling, even the most experienced veteran can botch a move now and again.

 

[SavageTaker]

The Piledriver isn’t used anymore because it’s a dangerous move that can easily be botched. If a move is botched then there’s the possibility that a serious injury can happen such as a broken neck. We saw that happen when Owen Hart accidently botched a Piledriver when he was giving it to Stone Cold. Stone Cold ended up with a broken neck that kept him on the sidelines for a few months. Austin’s neck didn’t heal correctly and we all know that he had to retire several years later from wrestling. If it wasn’t for that Piledriver then Austin might have retired later. If Stone Cold could get injured and Owen Hart could botch a Piledriver, then it can happen to anybody.

Also for the guy who pointed out that Undertaker uses the tombstone piledriver, the one he uses is a variation of the piledriver. There is a lesser chance that he will mess it up and injure someone. You also have to remember that The Undertaker has been doing that move for 20 years so the chances of him messing up are slim. He can still mess up the move like anyone else in wrestling, but there’s a slim chance that he will screw it up after having many, many years of experience doing the move.

 

[Dexter]

Any botched move in wrestling can cause serious injury whether it be a dropkick, a suplex, a backdrop and so on and so forth. No matter how long someone has been wrestling, even the most experienced veteran can botch a move now and again.

I'm still not understanding how this is a valid argument. People keep using it, and it keeps not making sense. The fact that a backdrop could injure someone doesn't excuse the use of a move that has a FAR greater chance of causing FAR greater harm.

 

[CJ The Pirate]

That's a belly to belly piledriver that Owen Hart did to Austin. Both Austin and Hart have said they felt comfortable doing the move in that match and Austin was still friends with Hart afterward. There was no bad feeling because of it. JR calls out Tombstone, yes, but as you pointed out, it looked nothing like one. As good as JR is... he often makes mistakes. Nowadays, he's not afraid to correct himself when he does it. Back then, he never did.

My strongest argument in defense of the Tombstone is that the head of the opponent is above the Undertaker's or Kane's knees 99% of the time.

The whole arguement about "Any move, like a hammerlock, can cause injury at any time" is completely redundant. It's all about risk assessment. My mobile phone can break at any time. So can my car. My car costs a hell of a lot more to insure though as there would be greater damage. In this example, the part of the Hammerlock is played by my phone. The car stars as a Piledriver.

Look at it in this way

Owen Hart Piledrives Austin... Broken Neck, paralysis... out for 3 months (as a competitor) and had continuous neck injuries after that. This eventually contributed to his retirement at the relatively early age of 39.

Matt Hardy breaks his hand after being leg dropped whilst tied to a table. Hand gets strapped. He can still compete. This won't really cause him a problem for very long.

Risk assessment!

 

[angry_panda]

Start to ban moves. moves like the piledriver, SSP, 45o splash or really any move that could be considered sick or amazing. Granted the shooting star press is no longer banned but when i watch someone get taken down by a finisher i want it to seem like that move could knock them out and end there career. now i understand if a wrestler is to scared to take a piledriver variation but for the guys who are good enough to take the move well, let them take the move don't put a ban on piledriver's or r other cool high impact moves.

I think they defiantly should not un-ban these crazy moves. Sure if a wrestler is happy to have it done to them then fair enough, you could have them sign a waver pre-match or something, but how easy would it be to bully/bribe someone into it. Take the shot and there'll be a title shot for you round the corner....or if you aren't willing to take the shot, maybe you aren't the type of performer this business is looking for...etc etc etc. They had a piledriver on TNA the other week, sure it brought EY some heat, but if stylles had have been injured and ended up out of the ring for a year/18 months, it would have been horrible.

if u wanna c a move i would consider a finisher, look at a wrestler named super dragon. his finishers are the psycho driver's and each one if abso-fucking-lutley brutal. they look like they could knock u out. i don't think anyone would be knocked out by an attitude adjustment and if u get hit by a swanton i think u would just roll around in pain it would'nt knock u out unless u landed on their head.

This is why i like CM punk. His finisher isn't a driver yet looks like it could knock u out cold

I never really understand the thought behind a move has too look like it could "knock you out". If all finishers should look like they could knock you out everyones finisher would be big shows punch, or sweet chin music, hell a close line would have more chance of knocking you out than something like an RKO, or a code breaker. Finishers look cool, but in reality they are generally the least affective moves done on the entire match.

If you are willing to accept the fact that someone could take a chair shot to the head and get up to battle on, you should be willing to accept that a "finisher" does what it says on the tin and finishes a match (most times).

 

[GameOver]

The injury possibilities are to the kneck/spinal chord which can cause instant death, brain damage, paralysis without even fucking up badly

Case in fact, Taker is strong and thus can easily hold up most opponents,
secondly he never comes close to having the opponent head near the mat. it's always in his upper thighs

Owen Hart use to do a version of the tombestone where he landed on his butt, the opponent half over his shoulders and until he dropped Austin on his head it was pretty safe.

Piledriver is delivered with a portion of the head sticking out and deliverer drives opponent down with much faster force then a Tombestone due to not being able to cushion the move with the knees like Taker does, The whole point is not to knock your opponent out as the likelyhood of that happening is small, more likely all you could achieve is compressing the spine of the opponent using there own weight and your downward momentum and thus paralysing them.

It's true that any move could cause serious injury, well except maybe the dreaded Trapezius Muscle Hold or The Worm LOL

Some moves are just alot more risky and guys are getting injured all the time due to poor execution, why throw legitimately dangerous moves into the mix.

 

[Mr. TM]

All wrestling moves are dangerous. The Piledrive is just one that seems very dangerous, and has a bad track record. A DDT can go just as wrong however. A move that knocks you out of the ring can break ribs. Anything can go wrong in the ring. The important thing is to keep the other talent safe. To keep them safe, you must be constantly aware in the ring. The undertaker still does a piledriver, because the man is a true professional. He knows how to do the moves. He is a 20 year veteran who knows his moves. Undertaker should keep it, and any talent who has proven themselves in the ring should get to do whatever moves they want.