Phoenix Region, Third Round: LMS: (2) Andre the Giant vs. (7) Kevin Nash

[klunderbunker]

The following contest is a third round match in the Phoenix Region.

This match takes place in University of Phoenix Stadium, Phoenix, Arizona.

It is a Fan’s Choice Match.

Rules: There will be a poll up over the next two days with three options and the most votes will be the gimmick assigned.

#2 Andre the Giant

Vs.

#7 Kevin Nash

This contest is one fall with a 30 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting will open in 48 hours and will be open for five days and all posts must be non-spam. You may use the 48 hours to present your cases as to why either competitor should/should not win.​

 

[Big Sexy]

The gimmick isn't known yet but let's be serious. There is absolutely no gimmick that would allow Kevin Nash to beat Andre. That isn't a knock against Nash at all it's just a fact. I'm sure Nash would put up a good fight but in the end Andre would just be too much for him.

 

[Megadeth]

In a standard 1 on 1 match, I would probably go with Andre, but if this goes either Street Fight or Last man standing, I think it would actually give the edge to Nash. Kevin Nash is far more experienced in those type of matches than Andre, plus I don't believe Andre ever fought any one the size of Big Daddy Cool, so the size advantage that Andre typically relied on will be minimalized. Not to mention in a no dq setting you could argue it would open up the possibility for some outside interference from the nWo. If it ends up steel cage, I dont see it really giving either man that much of an advantage other than limiting the outside help, as they have both been in Cage matches. So in that case I will probably go with Andre, though I could be swayed to Nash.

 

[Ace Sleeper]

In a standard 1 on 1 match, I would probably go with Andre, but if this goes either Street Fight or Last man standing, I think it would actually give the edge to Nash. Kevin Nash is far more experienced in those type of matches than Andre, plus I don't believe Andre ever fought any one the size of Big Daddy Cool, so the size advantage that Andre typically relied on will be minimalized. Not to mention in a no dq setting you could argue it would open up the possibility for some outside interference from the nWo. If it ends up steel cage, I dont see it really giving either man that much of an advantage other than limiting the outside help, as they have both been in Cage matches. So in that case I will probably go with Andre, though I could be swayed to Nash.

I would have to agree, Andre has little to no experience in those kinds of matches, and has little to no experience facing big guys. If this ends up under some kind of hardcore stipulation it's going to Nash, especially as you said, if the nWo can get involved, along with the clique and main event mafia. Under special rules there's just to many ways Nash can win this. If 1 v 1 it goes to Andre. Should be interesting to see what goes down.

 

[Big Sexy]

In a standard 1 on 1 match, I would probably go with Andre, but if this goes either Street Fight or Last man standing, I think it would actually give the edge to Nash. Kevin Nash is far more experienced in those type of matches than Andre, plus I don't believe Andre ever fought any one the size of Big Daddy Cool, so the size advantage that Andre typically relied on will be minimalized. Not to mention in a no dq setting you could argue it would open up the possibility for some outside interference from the nWo. If it ends up steel cage, I dont see it really giving either man that much of an advantage other than limiting the outside help, as they have both been in Cage matches. So in that case I will probably go with Andre, though I could be swayed to Nash.

Andre feuded with and defeated Big John Studd who was billed at 6'10, 384 pounds which was right around Nash's size so he has definitely faced guys of similar stature. As far as the "experience" factor in no dq types of matches goes, that is really irrelevant. Andre was 7'4, 500 pounds and the addition of no rules and weapons would do nothing but make him an even tougher opponent to defeat. It isn't hard to pick up a foreign object and hit somebody with it. The interference thing is a wash as well because Andre had plenty of allies throughout his career. No matter what the match type is Andre takes this.

 

[Megadeth]

Andre feuded with and defeated Big John Studd who was billed at 6'10, 384 pounds which was right around Nash's size so he has definitely faced guys of similar stature. As far as the "experience" factor in no dq types of matches goes, that is really irrelevant. Andre was 7'4, 500 pounds a.

Yeah but they exaggerated even more so back then about size than they do now. Typically now they add around an 1 or maybe, back then it wasn't unusual for the to add 3 or 4 to some one's height. From what I can tell, Big John Studd was acutally closer to 6'7 not the 6'10 he was billed at. And with Andre, and I could be wrong on this, but I believe he was still growing up until when he died do to his disorder. So while he may have at the time of his death made it up to 7'4, in his prime he was probably right around 7' even (and according to some people it may have been as low as 6'10, though personally I think he was probably around 7'). Nash has been billed as up to as much as 7' but from what I can tell he is actually about 6'10. So in reality were talking about probably a 2 inch difference not the 5+ between Andre and Studd. Plus Studd wasn't in nearly as good of shape as Nash, so I am guessing Nash would probably be stronger than Studd. Lets not forget that Nash did power bomb The Big Show at one point, and while I wouldn't go as far to say he could Power Bomb Andre, he could very well be able to body slam him at least. Something I don't think Studd ever did.

 

[Big Sexy]

Yeah but they exaggerated even more so back then about size than they do now. Typically now they add around an 1 or maybe, back then it wasn't unusual for the to add 3 or 4 to some one's height. From what I can tell, Big John Studd was acutally closer to 6'7 not the 6'10 he was billed at. And with Andre, and I could be wrong on this, but I believe he was still growing up until when he died do to his disorder. So while he may have at the time of his death made it up to 7'4, in his prime he was probably right around 7' even (and according to some people it may have been as low as 6'10, though personally I think he was probably around 7'). Nash has been billed as up to as much as 7' but from what I can tell he is actually about 6'10. So in reality were talking about probably a 2 inch difference not the 5+ between Andre and Studd. Plus Studd wasn't in nearly as good of shape as Nash, so I am guessing Nash would probably be stronger than Studd. Lets not forget that Nash did power bomb The Big Show at one point, and while I wouldn't go as far to say he could Power Bomb Andre, he could very well be able to body slam him at least. Something I don't think Studd ever did.

You're going wayyyyy too in depth with this. This is wrestling not reality. No one is really as big as they are billed but for the sake of this tournament it makes sense to go by how they were billed by the world of wrestling. Besides, size is just one thing that gives Andre an advantage. Let's not forget that in his prime Andre almost never lost and when he did it was to some of the best talent in the world. Nash is great but not the caliber of guy that would beat Andre.

 

[Megadeth]

Let's not forget that in his prime Andre almost never lost and when he did it was to some of the best talent in the world.

You know, I seem to remember some other guy by the name of Goldberg who, like Andre, almost never lost in his prime, had gone like 173 matches without loosing a single one, and then when he came up to Kevin Nash, and suddenly the streak was over. If you want say that Nash could never beat Andre because Andre almost never loss, then by that same logic, Nash should have never beat Goldberg, yet he has. Nash has proven that he can beat the so-called "unbeatable" before, so just because Andre does have an impressive win/loss record, that fact alone isn't enough to convince me that Nash would automatically lose. And on the flip side, I am not arguing that it means Nash would automatically win, I am merely showing a scenario in which I could see Nash picking up the win for people to think about and discuss. To be honest I could still be swayed to vote either way on this one, I just need more of an argument than Andre's win streak and size means he automatically wins to vote for him.

 

[gd]

Like it comes down to most of the time with Andre, there is just one thing that always seems to set him apart from his opponents. That is his role in Princess Bride, which was just spectacular. I really can't even think about that movie without getting emotional. The big fella knows how to act.

As for a Last Man Standing match, I don't know that it favors either one of them, or anything like that. However, I do know that Andre was one of the best standers I've ever seen.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I think this match would be about as entertaining as watching water boil. However, there are several reasons for Andre to go over.

I cannot find video of this particular match, but Andre did beat Killer Khan in a Texas Death match back in 1981. That gives him at least some experience in a similar environment. On the other hand, Nash has all kinds of experience in No DQ-style matches, and doesn't have a great record. He's lost street fights to Shawn Michaels and HHH, No DQ matches to Bret Hart and HBK. Looking back, Nash didn't do well in a more hardcore environment.

Andre is bigger, and a lot tougher. I just can't see Nash knocking Andre out. On the other hand, if someone like HHH or HBK can do it, I'm guessing Andre can as well.

Andre wins.

 

[Big Sexy]

You know, I seem to remember some other guy by the name of Goldberg who, like Andre, almost never lost in his prime, had gone like 173 matches without loosing a single one, and then when he came up to Kevin Nash, and suddenly the streak was over. If you want say that Nash could never beat Andre because Andre almost never loss, then by that same logic, Nash should have never beat Goldberg, yet he has. Nash has proven that he can beat the so-called "unbeatable" before, so just because Andre does have an impressive win/loss record, that fact alone isn't enough to convince me that Nash would automatically lose. And on the flip side, I am not arguing that it means Nash would automatically win, I am merely showing a scenario in which I could see Nash picking up the win for people to think about and discuss. To be honest I could still be swayed to vote either way on this one, I just need more of an argument than Andre's win streak and size means he automatically wins to vote for him.

Goldberg wasn't 7'4 and almost 500 pounds. A taser won't take Andre down. Andre has defeated big guys before like Big John Studd, Ernie Ladd, and Gorilla Monsoon. Like Nick B said, he also has some hardcore experience as he defeated Killer Khan in a Texas Death Match and a Mongolian Stretcher Match. Nash's experience in the environment probably works more against him because of his poor record in these types of matches. There's just nothing Nash has over Andre that would allow him to win this match.

 

[8thwotwATG]

Andre goes over Nash here, regardless of what kind of gimmick match is chosen. While Nash certainly represents some stiff competition, Andre made a good part of his reputation facing off against, and defeating other big men. Starting with the likes of Don Leo Jonathan, Killer Kowalski, and Gorilla monsoon among others early on in his career, he established himself almost immediately as THE premiere superheavyweight in the business. Other notable big men that Andre vanquished were Ernie Ladd, Bruiser Brody, Abdullah the Butcher, Killer Khan, Blackjack Mulligan, and even a young up and coming Hulk Hogan before Hogan hit his stride and became the worlds greatest pro wrestler. Andre even managed to chase one of the most well known and celebrated big men of all time, Big John Studd, out of the WWF/E. I would say that while this would not be pretty to watch, it would probably be a fairly entertaining brawl, with both guys attacking each other with a series of punches, kicks and other things of that nature. I think it would come down to who could finish who, and I honestly couldn't see Nash lifting Andre up for a snake eyes in the corner, or much of anything else for that matter. In close to thirty years inside the ring, you can count on one hand the number of wrestlers who Andre allowed to get a clean win on him, and quite frankly, I don't see Andre putting Kevin Nash over here. Remember, the only way you beat the Giant was if he let you win, and he doesn't give Nash the nod here. Big kev goes down in a rough brutal brawl that sees the Giant bloodied and bruised, but victorious.

 

[klunderbunker]

Andre doesn't have experience in these things? That's your rationale for picking Nash? Are you high or just incredibly stupid?

What kind of fucking experience do you need for this? Andre is a fucking giant and it took Hulk Hogan to put him on his back in the first place and Hogan barely pinned him. Take a look at this.

[youtube]jijzfOxkwmg[/youtube]

Start at about 3:15. THAT is what Nash is up against. This is Andre when he was young and his back wasn't in tatters. Nash isn't going to powerbomb Andre. He might not be able to even hit a big boot on him. Chair shots aren't going to do much as Andre's head is harder than the average Samoan's. What in the fuck can Nash do to win this? I want someone to answer that for me. Give me a damn break about Nash's experience. From what I can find, Nash has ONE last man standing match which was in WCW in the dying days of the company. That's his experience? Andre had a ton of cage matches so it's not like weapons/surviving is foreign to him. The experience argument is a damn joke. There is no way Andre loses this, period.

Just noticed this. "Andre has no experience facing big guys." WHAT THE HELL??? Did you watch ANYTHING in the 80s? He fought nothing but big guys. Hogan might have been the smallest guy he fought until 87. Learn before you type people, my sanity begs it of you.

 

[Megadeth]

[YOUTUBE]z3sBzNOXbKs[/YOUTUBE]
Given that it is Last Man Standing, it caused me to remember this match. While it wasn't actually LMS, Andre LOST by not getting to his feet before the 10 count after nothing a fireball to the face. If that could keep Andre down for the 10 count, surely Nash could come up with something similar that would keep the big man down in a match where anything is legal. So I decided to ultimately vote for Big Daddy Cool.

 

[Tastycles]

Look, even when Andre was getting creamed by Warrior and losing in less than a minute, he got up pretty easily. Hogan pinned him, but barely, and I don't think I've ever seen him on his back when he isn't being covered for any significant period of time. Nash isn't a bad opponent, and I'm sure he'd prove difficult for Andre to overcome, but there's no way he could possibly beat him in this encounter.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

There is no question that Andre is the tougher of the two wrestlers, and when it comes down to a Last Man Standing match, there isn't a whole lot else that matters.

Nash isn't connecting with a Jack-knife Powerbomb nor is he able to hit a big boot. All that Nash can do is rely on weapons and his environment and I'm confident in saying that Andre will be able to obsorb much more damage and still come out swinging that Nash would be able to withstand.

 

[hatehabsforever]

This was a tougher one, but in the end, I went with Kevin Nash. Granted, Andre is an absolute behemoth of a man, but let's face it, Nash is not exactly a cruiserweight or anything either. It isn't like the Giant is facing Rey Mysterio or Santino Marella. Kevin Nash is a pretty big guy who carried plenty of aggression into the ring with him. In his prime, he was a pretty dominant big man capable of some terrific power wrestling.

I simply think it is incorrect to give the edge to Andre here simply because of his enormous size. If this was the only issue, just award him the Wrestlezone Tournament victory now, and every year to come, because he isn't getting any smaller. Andre was always more physically imposing than anyone else who was in the ring with him, yet he would lose from time to time, so he clearly can be beaten. And I think Kevin Nash brings enough offense, enough aggression, enough toughness, and enough resiliency and ability to withstand punishment, to be the guy to get the job done.

In a long, slow, physical and brutal match, look for Kevin Nash to pull it off and squeak by into the next round.

 

[Megadeth]

I know trying to convince most of you that Nash could win here is a lost cause, but I thought I would share one final thing to take into consideration:

[YOUTUBE]H7XJ2-hKy60[/YOUTUBE]

Here is a video of Andre being knocked unconscious when Big John Studd cut his hair. Andre was down and out for far longer than 10 seconds. So to say that Andre could never be knocked out is obviously not true. The fact is Nash is not some mid-carder. He is a former 6-time world champion. Nash had the longest consecutive WWE title reign from the time Hogan lost the belt to Warrior until John Cena's third reign in 06-07. Andre has beat a lot of people, the fact is he spent the majority of his career on the mid-card, or as a special attraction. He was WWF champion for all of about 2 minutes. How many people did Andre beat who were former World Champions? (and to clarify I mean he beat them after they had been world champions, I am not counting when he beat Hogan in 1980 when Hogan was still upper mid-card before he became WWF Champion.) Although it is quite possible I am missing something, as records from the 70's and early eighties aren't as easy to find, the only thing I came across was he had a single count-out victory over Antonio Inoki (who has beat Andre several times). But even if I did miss some obscure match or 2 in there, means that it was rare for him to ever truly step up to main-event caliber opponents.
If you want to argue this as a real fight, then yeah in a real fight Andre would probably be able take out Nash, but in the kayfabe wrestling world, as dominate as Nash was booked at his peak, I think it is more than possible Nash would have been able to get a win on Andre. Nash quite often gets underrated as far as what he accomplished and how dominate he could be, and Andre tends to be at times a bit overrated.

This will probably be the last chance I have to speak on this match before, so if you want to start ripping my argument apart as to why I am a complete idiot, go for it, but with my schedule the next few days I probably won't be able to respond, or even read it for that matter, but I think somehow the myth of Andre the Giant has somehow grown even bigger than the man himself, and most people on here tend to remember the 80's the era, and will go with how great they remember things from then over what the facts are.

 

[The Other Hardy Brother]

I don't see the match type but like Big Sexy said there is no match type that Nash could beat Andre in. If weapons are allowed great. Andre becomes more dangerous than before with a steel chair in hand. If its a steel cage match awesome no NWO. Even though I don't think the NWO counts anyway as they weren't managers. Andre however would have the cunning of Bobby Heenan in his corner plus with his size, strength, and the fact that to my knowledge only two people ever defeated him. Hulk Hogan and El Canek. Andre takes this. Nash is a big man and puts up a fight. But Andre takes it.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Well when I was considering this match, I had to ask myself 1 vital question. What is it that Kevin Nash could do to Andre that would mean he wasn't able to reach his feet before the count of 10, and not a quick count-out type 10-count, a LMS count which is closer to 30 seconds or more. He can't connect with his big boot, and his sidewalk slam isn't exactly a match ending move. In the end I could think of only two things: weapons or repeated Jacknife power bombs. Let's put the use of weapons to the side for the moment:

[YOUTUBE]5OwT78Q2I6k[/YOUTUBE]

Now it's hard to gauge but Big Show looks to be somewhere around the 450 pound mark here, some 50-100 pounds lighter than Andre was through most of his career. He very impressively gets the big man up, BUT you can see the toll it has on his knees, Nash has never been the most mobile of big men since this incident and wasn't even too agile before it. I think on Andre who has a few more inches on Show and was mostly heavier a single power bomb is already asking a lot, so I'm ruling this out at this point.

So weapons it is? For me that's his small window of opportunity. Repeated chair shots or something similar and I can realistically see Andre not getting up. But once again how likely is that? No real reason Andre couldn't block a chair shot quite easily with his forearm or even hand if he had to. Nash has a very slim opportunity but because 99 times out of 100 Andre would win this match I have to hand this over on the balance of fairness and award Andre the vote.