Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Obviously you missed Over The Edge '99.
Ongoing Thread For Smarmy Spam Responses to the WZT
- Thread starter Coco
- Start date
Obviously you missed Over The Edge '99.
When you said you were known for being funny around here I didnt believe you until now.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
As I speak, I can see someone cleaning up the mess of this guy called sportzznuts, or something like that. He's got some quality posts.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
THE WZT always turns into a Goat Rodeo.
I'm just returning after a few days away and I've noticed a few things:
1. Piper went over Yoko. Can't say I'm surprised. Piper is the far better of the two, however, nobody will ever convince me that a prime Piper would go over a prime Yoko in kayfabe.
2. The amount of people on these forums saying that D-Bry would go over Lawler is just shocking. Maybe in a few years after D-Bry get's a few more accomplishments, but I digress. Honestly, Lawler should win that match and in reality it shouldn't even be that close.
3. I see a few people saying that Kane hasn't been worth much since the year after his debut. Really? Kane has been someone that has been relevant since his debut and has been someone that can be and has been put into the main event at any given time. Even before 2010, Kane could've been put into the main event picture at any given time. Hell, since his run with D-Bry, they've even been the focus of a few Raws and Smackdowns. When's the last time anyone could say that about a tag team?
Just a few things........
1. Piper went over Yoko. Can't say I'm surprised. Piper is the far better of the two, however, nobody will ever convince me that a prime Piper would go over a prime Yoko in kayfabe.
2. The amount of people on these forums saying that D-Bry would go over Lawler is just shocking. Maybe in a few years after D-Bry get's a few more accomplishments, but I digress. Honestly, Lawler should win that match and in reality it shouldn't even be that close.
3. I see a few people saying that Kane hasn't been worth much since the year after his debut. Really? Kane has been someone that has been relevant since his debut and has been someone that can be and has been put into the main event at any given time. Even before 2010, Kane could've been put into the main event picture at any given time. Hell, since his run with D-Bry, they've even been the focus of a few Raws and Smackdowns. When's the last time anyone could say that about a tag team?
Just a few things........
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
The Shield.
Well I suppose one could count the Shield. Although, I look at them as more of a faction as opposed to a tag team.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
It is arguments like that that make the WZT a complete bust for me.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
I think most people go the kayfabe route, which is the easiest, and probably most accurate, thing to do.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
Kayfabe quickly goes out the window with two characters who never faced each other in their prime. Then you have to bring extra names to make it work.
For the purposes of Piper/Yoko, you would throw say Bret Hart, who beat a "past his prime" Piper and traded victories with a prime Yoko. No help there really.
Then you bring in Hulk Hogan, who never beat a prime Piper clean but traded victories with a prime Yoko.
And then you start arguing what prime really means for any of them and then victories out of prime like that of Hogan over Piper during the nWo days.
A total minefield of bollocks.
For the purposes of Piper/Yoko, you would throw say Bret Hart, who beat a "past his prime" Piper and traded victories with a prime Yoko. No help there really.
Then you bring in Hulk Hogan, who never beat a prime Piper clean but traded victories with a prime Yoko.
And then you start arguing what prime really means for any of them and then victories out of prime like that of Hogan over Piper during the nWo days.
A total minefield of bollocks.
Барбоса;4377265 said:
Well that's one way of looking at it and you're not wrong.
I look at it like this though, how were the two performers booked in their primes? Not necessarily who they defeated but how were they booked? Yoko was booked as someone who very rarely lost. Be it by cheating, interference, etc. Yoko barely ever lost while in his prime. Piper, on the other hand, routinely lost to the top stars of the business in his prime. At one point in time, Yoko was the top star. I think Piper would be booked as normal.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Барбоса;4377265 said:
In those cases, that's when we should turn to determining who had more longevity, which promotions they competed in were bigger, who had more presence, and who drew more money. That way we can make a good assumption which wrestler would win in kayfabe.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
Is talking about how someone is booked really voting in a kayfabe way though?
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Барбоса;4377289 said:
I'd say yes because booking a wrestler one way or the other is essentially the building blocks of kayfabe. Right?
This.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
For me, once you start going into the reasons and motives behind kayfabe characters, you aren't really talking about kayfabe any more.
Kayfabe would strictly be "who beat who."
Kayfabe would strictly be "who beat who."
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Барбоса;4377317 said:
And then ask yourself why they'd be booked to win. If two opponents were booked to be king of the hill in their promotions, but never faced each other, just ask yourself who was the better king of the hill, and which hill was bigger. For example Bret vs Rikidozan - neither faced each other, but Rikidozan was a bigger star, fought better opponents, drew more money, and conquered promotions that were more credible than the WWE at the time. Thus he'd win.
Kayfabe means nobody is booked to win.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
But the booking process itself creates a kayfabe. That's basically what we're doing in this tournament, right?
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
True kayfabe would be the most interesting but I rarely see posts that accurately use it. I'd say it is at least ten times more common to see posts specifically designed to ignore kayfabe. First clue is usually gratuitous use of "clean."
Another bastardized term is "prime." Every wrestler ever was impossible to defeat in their prime. Now that may have been one night and it certainly isn't comparable to what someone did over a more significant time frame but too many overlook that difference in scope. Furthermore where in time do these people meet when we compare primes? If Prime Piper and Prime Yokozuna met in the present WWE I think you would be crazy not to consider Piper the favorite. Not being more over than Hogan in the 80s is a ridiculous way to judge someone in a match vs anyone other than Hogan. You know who was more over than Hogan in the 80s? Me neither.
Another bastardized term is "prime." Every wrestler ever was impossible to defeat in their prime. Now that may have been one night and it certainly isn't comparable to what someone did over a more significant time frame but too many overlook that difference in scope. Furthermore where in time do these people meet when we compare primes? If Prime Piper and Prime Yokozuna met in the present WWE I think you would be crazy not to consider Piper the favorite. Not being more over than Hogan in the 80s is a ridiculous way to judge someone in a match vs anyone other than Hogan. You know who was more over than Hogan in the 80s? Me neither.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
I voted for Yokozuna, but I did so because I thought he'd make a better opponent for Edge. IMO that's part of the voting process is picking the best match up for the next round. I can't see Piper beating Edge, but Yoko might have given him some trouble.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Kayfabe you don't know who is going to win the other match. As long as you vote AJ over Batista based on this criteria then I'll let it slide though.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
I thought that was the most interesting match-up of the next round so far.
