[Official] VKM's War on the WWE Thread **MERGED**

[BRandonkin]

Its funny how you say that about VKM..But when DX did it no one seemed to care. They thought it was fricken awesome. I think your comment is biased. Back then did you think DX was beter then hulkester? Did you think they were better then flair? No. VKM is a better tag then DX. In singles DX is better. Thats my opinion.

DX was not stalkers following them all over the globe and calling out personal names on TV and telling lies since we all know that DX merchandise has been flying off the shelves so they can't be that big of a failure. There is a huge difference between the two.

 

[BRandonkin]

They called out for Scott Hall and Kevin Nash saying they were here to free them as far as i recall!

Here to free them, not attack Scott Hal land Kevin Nash. Those were Trips friends. He did not call there name out every week. Maybe VKM should wrestle a match. How bout that.

 

[Ushiku]

Also, remember what X-Pac/Sean Waltman said when he arrived at WWE following his release from WCW? "Kevin Nash and Scott Hall would like to return too but can't subject to contractual agreements"

So they did want to "free them", I'm sure that Triple H wanted The Clique to be reunited under the DX banner.

Anyway this is besides the point, the point is that Voodoo Kin Mafia needs to up their game if their threats and antics are to be in any way funny or worthwhile. I personally think if they turned up at December to Dismember and interupted the final two combatents inside of the Extreme Elimination Chamber they would definitely get some attention, but so far their "war" is pretty much hardcore trash talking followed by softcore actions.

 

[Kasey]

TNA is a disgrace, the new age outlaws and vince russo were old WWE guys who couldn't get it done, and now they think they're better? russo is pulling the same crap in TNA as he did in WCW and we all know how that worked out for him

WWE guys who couldn't get it done? I'm not sure if you're aware, but the basic infrastructure of the WWE's product was pioneered by Russo. Most of the WWF's really successful angles from the last decade had Russo behind them, as well as the WWF's resurgence that helped them to match and finally best Nitro after Vince had his ass handed to him in the ratings for over a year and a half. And the NAO is probably one of the greatest tag teams in the history of wrestling. Shit, they were able to help get Triple H over. The disgusting thing is that if this were 1999, all of the WWF/E marks would be kissing their asses and praising them to high heaven for all they've done, but because they're not playing in your favorite sandbox, you like to just up and forget everything. To be fair to Russo, he wasn't allowed to work at getting any momentum because Time Warner came in and took the bat out of his hands when the ratings didn't turn around overnight. They, like most half-wits around here, forget that turning a wrestling company around sometimes takes years, as was the case when he and Ferarra helped spearhead the WWF's revival.

 

[Kasey]

DX was not stalkers following them all over the globe and calling out personal names on TV and telling lies since we all know that DX merchandise has been flying off the shelves so they can't be that big of a failure. There is a huge difference between the two.

Blowing things out of proportion, are we? It's not like VKM was following them to Europe on the last WWE tour and stalking them at their homes, they showed up at events recently and probably bought a ticket, too. They've filmed some vignettes outside of Stamford (near a Target no less, oooh!) and did some shoot promos for f**k's sake. The fact is that the depraved WWE audience will lap up any gimmick that sticks to the wall now as the majority of the product on all three shows is a complete and utter failure and this is why DX sells. This is why WWE has been using old gimmicks and storylines instead of doing the intelligent thing and moving the damn company forward, because the collegiate-grad writing staff couldn't find an idea in a bag of ideas. And yes, it is stupid to see two guys in their forties running around doing a gimmick that barely fit them in 1997. It's also a gimmick that has taken the stock of TWO of the WWF's best main eventers and $hit it down the toilet because it's ruined each of their characters. Those two should be used with their old personalities and should be saving the World Title division from John Cena and Umaga. The fact is there is legit heat that VKM has with DX stemming from real-life stuff that went on in Titan. But none of the WWE faithful would ever want to hear that their heroes are actually sabotaging pricks behind the scenes. I personally don't care what happens either way as I was never a fan of DX, even in its infancy. I just find it funny that someone has the balls to actually stand up and speak their piece towards three of the prime a$$holes in the company up north. That and it gives a previously aimless (due to booking) tag team in TNA something to do.

 

[Kasey]

when dx did it they werent directin it towards any 2 individuals as this so called "VKM" aka FORMER members of Degeneration-X...the reason everyone is pissed is cuz they use to b members of this faction and now suddenly they are dissing it and its a shock how all former members of the wwe are in on it...vkm is no way a better tag then dx....dx has 2 MAIN EVENT wrestlers who have both held world titles on more than one occasion while the NEW AGE OUTLAWS as i still see them cuz i refuse to call them this act of vkm have never held world titles....dx is better in singles action then the new age outlaws and dx is better than them in tag team form....

Singles competition and tagging is totally separate. As a collective, Kip and BG have 17 tag title reigns between them, while HHH and Michaels have a collection of 4 between them. If you're counting who's worn the straps as a relevant measure of success than Kip and BG own the DX fogeys in the tag department.

 

[Ushiku]

Booking goes on in lots of different wrestling organisations, perhaps in future the organisations should limit creative control to character development and leave booking out of the equasion since it sabotages the sports entertainment business, but for Voodoo Kin Mafia to attack DX due to booking is to deny their own existance, the Smoking Gunns were history and all Jesse James had done was a small feud with Jeff Jarret - being part of DX and working with The Clique helped them gain a sucessful fan following as the New Age Outlaws which they rightly deserved as they are good wrestlers who did bust their ass for WWE, but at the same time if it wasn't for DX they'd probably still be jobbers.

I can understand that they might be annoyed for legitimate reasons, but they were offered the chance to come back to WWE and join DX, but they stuck to their Gunns (pardon the pun) and stayed with TNA. So they should focus on TNA, perhaps become NWA Tag Team Champions and vent their anger of Vince McMahon and DX as a sidestory or a "war" that is developed to a full potential including invading live events on television instead of talking the talk but not walking the walk, seriously after all their talk about "airing the footage" if they weren't allowed in the Hardy Boyz and MMM match via a three-way-dance the footage was remarkably shallow which is a shame.

I do think there is potential for the "war" but it must be worked well, I'm talking about interupting live events with their wrestlers, getting TNA fans to WWE live events and erupting in TNA chants and forcing WWE to recognise them, if they carry on with a futile "war" TNA will lose face in this angle, which is a shame since it does have good potential with legitimate ill feelings providing a catalyst.

 

[ErkBono23]

Singles competition and tagging is totally separate. As a collective, Kip and BG have 17 tag title reigns between them, while HHH and Michaels have a collection of 4 between them. If you're counting who's worn the straps as a relevant measure of success than Kip and BG own the DX fogeys in the tag department.

17 tag title reigns that were written by the writers!!!!!...while hhh and shawn were doing BETTER things like hmmm MAIN EVENTING.....only reason hhh and shawn dont have 17 tag titles THAT WERE WRITTEN BY THE WRITERS is because they were far to good to stick ONLY to tag title reigns while new age outlaws had to strictly stick to tag title reigns cuz alone they would b nothing...which is y eventually their star dwindled and they got fired cuz they culdnt offer anythin to the company anymore

 

[Ushiku]

Or perhaps since DX folded they were no longer seen as important despite their talent, they did have and still do have a lot to potential as wrestlers, but ultimately aside from their run as the New Age Outlaws they've been jobbers for much of their WWE careers.

I understand their point that they hate how booking has often left them on the sidelines, but they should push themselves, talk to the people in the storyline departments, get creative control in their contracts (as I believe they now have) and go on to achieve success on their own, much of their previous success is owed to DX, but I know they're good wrestlers so they should prove it by becoming a force to be reckoned with in TNA.

Also this "war" should only continue if their tactics are to be amplified, so far they've done nothing to harm WWE aside from making a few people curious. If they really want to win their "war" they should up their game, I've outlined a few ways in which they can do this in a few posts, but unless they use good ideas from wrestling sites or think of their own, then their attempts to beat DX and Vince McMahon will fail.

Preferably TNA could make this "war" something which would make them noticed, but for the moment I don't see this happening as the inconsistency in their own storylines is bad enough, for TNA to launch a "war" against WWE with a favourable result seems futile at the moment, but that could change with some smart moves.

 

[Kasey]

17 tag title reigns that were written by the writers!!!!!...while hhh and shawn were doing BETTER things like hmmm MAIN EVENTING.....only reason hhh and shawn dont have 17 tag titles THAT WERE WRITTEN BY THE WRITERS is because they were far to good to stick ONLY to tag title reigns while new age outlaws had to strictly stick to tag title reigns cuz alone they would b nothing...which is y eventually their star dwindled and they got fired cuz they culdnt offer anythin to the company anymore

Notice I was talking about the tag title reigns comment. Yeah, HHH and HBK have main-evented more in singles. I wasn't disputing that, cool guy. That was also scripted by the writers, as well, with a lot of HHH's victories determined not just by his talent, but also by a lot of nepotism as well...and the fact that Michaels was gone. I'm not discounting the talent of the current DX members, but they aren't as good as they think they are in relation to a lot of other workers whose pushes were passed up because of favoritism and in some cases sabotage. Gunn was set to have a singles push, post-KOTR victory, but lo and behold? Done. Gone. No push, whatsoever. All of a sudden, boom! Triple H is a steroid-jacked ape who is winning titles left and right and humping the bosses' daughter. The Road Dogg/Gunn star dwindled because they weren't booked as the top tag team anymore. By the time they were about done, teams like the Hardy Bitches, Edge and Christian, and The Dudley's were the new golden boys of the tag division. WWF also began forced censorship of DX's angles, which took the sting out of their promo-style and made it so their gimmick was pretty much cut off at the hilt with no leg to stand on anymore.

 

[Kasey]

In a majority of ways, getting pushed is easier said than done for a lot of these guys. Even when I watched WWF programming and I didn't even like DX, I could see that Dogg and Gunn were BEYOND over with audience and their matches were tops. This is the reason they are pissed. Some wrestlers and even the great ones never find their niche until later. Stone Cold was the perfect example. He was a midcard schmo up until his feud with Hart. After he got over for the first time in his life, they actually kept elevating him. Dogg and Gunn were no different in that they had never really gotten over, but when they did, they weren't pushed any further, regardless of how the fans loved them. Just so that a curtain jerker named Levesque could have his push. Even though he ended up being the go-to guy when the WWE ratings began to spriral down the crapper, where they now sit by comparison to what they were once upon a time. Ten world title reigns and sagging ratings to match. This angle with VKM may be a flop, but it's not anything more than a toned-down TV-ready version of how they really feel. I've seen the old shoot interview and this angle is a product of that in the most literal sense.

 

[Ushiku]

That's one of the things WWE does, they overpush their wrestlers once they acheive main event status, take Randy Orton for example, despite being pushed to stardome and wrecking the legacy of many people who made wrestling what it is today he's still not satisfied, so he and Edge were booked to beat Ric Flair and "Rowdy" Roddy Piper, only they couldn't even do that fairly. Also I don't see why The Highlanders had to job for Rated RKO in their first ever World Tag Team Title shot, especially in their home turf.

TNA could make good use of this, especially with mutual disatisfaction between Sabu and WWE, and the way that many talented wrestlers and tag teams have been stuck on WWE Heat and made to job when they're on their branded shows, Kurt Angle could be the first of many to jump ship to TNA.

TNA should develop their current talent fairly, and also look to get more fresh young talent or middle aged veterans who are in the independent circuit in order to boost themselves up as the future of sports entertainment, which I think they have the potential to be, if and only if they treat carefully and make worthwhile decisions instead of trying to be another WWE.

 

[tha420dgnr8]

Just to see how full of it TNA possibly is, was anyone actually at the WWE show Friday in Knoxville that VKM was supposedly at? If so, were they actually there and did HHH actually acknowledge them?

 

[jefferson411]

Earlier someone said VKM received an offer to come back. No, nothing concrete was ever offered, DX and vince said they would like to have them back but didn't offer anything, before they could offer something they saw that interview.

EVeryone is absolutely right that these guys have the right to be upset about being under pushed and released by WWE. They are talented, the problem is that they aren't so good single wise. I think Kip is better than BG when it comes to singles competition. The other problem is WWE didn't want to pay the money for them when they couldn't come up with something good for them.

Whoever said "17 titles WRITTEN BY THE WRITERS" yeah, thats true you only get titles if it is written by the writers, but then that only gets approved in Vince McMahon thinks you are good enough. You have to have a special something to get to that position though, you can't just pick any numskull up off the street and make him a champion, they can't write it that way unless it is supposed to be funny and stupid. So these guys were good enough for 17 titles. Would you ever take away from the Dudley boys their successes just cause it was written by the writers? You went on to follow your statement about 17 titles written by the writers with saying that HHH and HBK were doing better things like "MAIN EVENTING", well that too was written by the writers.

To the guy who was talking about how WWE ratings have spiraled downward and that now HHH has 10 title reigns and sagging ratings, you have to realize that wrestling as a whole has fallen in the last several years. In the late 90's i bet TNA could have been pulling in what WWE pulls in now (4's and 5's), instead of pulling in .8-1.0. But while they were pulling that in WWE probably would have still pulled in the 7-9s they had going.

And I just want to say all of this gives me the feelings that TNA really wants to hang off WWE's nuts. This angle, the biggest angle being talked about within the company, is completely dependant on WWE. If there wasn't a WWE there wouldn't be an angle. TNA is building itself off WWE. Kurt Angle shows up in TNA 30 days after leaving WWE and all of the sudden he is one of the top guys, he moves more merchandise than anyone. But if he had the same amount of talent but wasn't such a big name, he wouldn't be escelated so fast in TNA. It is all great business sense but I wish fans would realize that this is whats happening. If HHH quit WWE right now and signed with TNA all the HHH haters on this TNA message board would do a 180 on their opinion of him and say omg HHH is the greatest yay for us. It is just how it is. Someone may even make the comment "WWE just didn't use him right." TNA has a great product when they aren't aiming to be WWE, so do that. TNA fans give em hell when they do this stuff. You are about to have the first ever bikini contest in TNA, and it is even more WWEsque in that it is a woman vs. a man. Stop them now and please don't like it just because it is TNA.

Oh and to the guy above me, I wasn't there, but PWInsider said HHH did not acknowledge them, TNAwrestling.com says he did. So you make the call? Or maybe someone here was there and can tell you. If he did I am sure it was innuendo. Hopefully they don't do this "Vince give us what we want or we will show the video!!" stuff like they did last week, and it turn out just to be them doing stuff with no WWE reaction, which is what it sounds like happened, if you go by the PWInsider story.

 

[RRated3114]

If anyone thinks that this invasion crap is going to do anything significant, you havent watched wrestling in past 10 years..VKM is old I don't see them hurting WWE in any way its not goin to happen WWE is too big. Not enough resources seems just as fake as early WCW. Its the same as Kurt Angle, like him jumpin ship would do any kind of damage. He's a Vince creation. Lets see how much the company can rely on him with him running his own character.

 

[Kasey]

To the guy who was talking about how WWE ratings have spiraled downward and that now HHH has 10 title reigns and sagging ratings, you have to realize that wrestling as a whole has fallen in the last several years. In the late 90's i bet TNA could have been pulling in what WWE pulls in now (4's and 5's), instead of pulling in .8-1.0. But while they were pulling that in WWE probably would have still pulled in the 7-9s they had going.

Wrestling as a whole fell on its ass in the last five years because Vince McMahon ended up as the sole wheelman steering everything and he crashed the business into a tree (along with the XFL). He devoured his competition and squandered the entire manuever, which could've instead been an entire stabilizing monopoly of the American wrestling industry and a benchmark of his unopposable dominance. In the end, he got sloppy, lazy, and worst of all comfortable with no one to fight him each week. ECW was running it's show (which workrate wise is very similar to TNA) in the hind end of the 90's and it was pulling in what TNA pulls at present, so I don't think TNA would fare much better in those days, either. Turner had a one-up because WCW/NWA was always well-received in the South and had a legacy there. Even though they use the NWA belts, the company is still wet behind the ears in that respect.

 

[Ushiku]

What is important is to see this in an economic perspective, wrestling interest has slumped because of WWE's dominance and because many old wrestling fans "grew out of" wrestling.

However there's always another generation being born, so wrestling and wrestling fans can be hopeful that wrestling will survive.

I think if TNA's "war" on WWE is done correctly it can completely revive interest in wrestling and make TNA strong, not just in terms of fans, but in terms of economics, shares rise when viewing figures rise, so I think a good "war" could be great if done well.

 

[tha420dgnr8]

Hopefully, now that the WWECW Craptacular is over, this also means that the VKM Bullshit is done. I realize what the ramifications of them being at the PPV would have been, but by noit even buying..or getting tickets comped...it shows what a couple of pussy bitches they are. Now if Truth could sut his trap, we'd be all set

 

[BRandonkin]

Singles competition and tagging is totally separate. As a collective, Kip and BG have 17 tag title reigns between them, while HHH and Michaels have a collection of 4 between them. If you're counting who's worn the straps as a relevant measure of success than Kip and BG own the DX fogeys in the tag department.

That because they were to busy dominating the singles division.

In essence HBK has 2 Tag Teams with the AWA. Had Three tag runs in the WWE(actually 4, Bret and Vince screwed the Rockers out of their first tag team gold in WWE). One In The NWA Central States as well. That seven right there, not including his TAS runs.

Meaning that HBK has matched the number of Road Dog by himself. Triple has 2 and was close with the blue bloods in WCW.
The difference is that HBK and HHH could carry a match by on their own unlike Road Dog and Billy Gunn

 

[wwenba]

I think that the whole VKM thing is a good idea. The fact is that it is causing more people to talk about TNA than ever before. TNA is getting attention and that is very important. They are grabbing the attention of WWE fans. The TNA vs. WWE storylines have sparked "TNA" chants throughout WWE events. Also, the they are right about the "dumb to the extreme" skits. How is Big Dick Johnson getting more TV time then Shelton Benjamin?

 

[Kasey]

That because they were to busy dominating the singles division.

In essence HBK has 2 Tag Teams with the AWA. Had Three tag runs in the WWE(actually 4, Bret and Vince screwed the Rockers out of their first tag team gold in WWE). One In The NWA Central States as well. That seven right there, not including his TAS runs.

Meaning that HBK has matched the number of Road Dog by himself. Triple has 2 and was close with the blue bloods in WCW.
The difference is that HBK and HHH could carry a match by on their own unlike Road Dog and Billy Gunn

Great. Well, if we're counting indy work as well than tack on a couple more for the Road Dogg. I'm talking about tag-team work. At no time did I mention singles work as it's beyond obvious that HHH and HBK have the edge in that department. And close doesn't count when it comes to any title run, so Levesque's WCW run was negated in that respect. As far as accolades achieved in tag-team wrestling, NAO wins hands down as that is what they specialize in, plain and simple. Sopp himself has been used in a title program several times with different athletes as that is what he's best at.

 

[NoUrRoll23]

ok is VKM giving up on this war stuff or wat?? we havent heard n e thing about it since last week when ever they were at the WWE house show

 

[STL Sandman]

VKM vs VKM has to be one of the worst storylines in wrestling history.

 

[jefferson411]

^BG and Kip have legit heat from getting what they felt was being wrongfully deep-sixed by a company they busted their asses for by a trio of people who used them like a dimestore ****e and threw 'em by the wayside after they used them to garner cheap pops for an NWO knockoff. Notice that there are a lot of former WWE talent who are pissed off for being misused (putting it mildly) and rotting in a failing product that is a shell of what it once was? It's got to be beyond irritating to watch people half as talented get all the breaks while all of the best guys in the locker room are playing second fiddle to people with half their ability. The fact is Vince has shit on a lot of wrestlers in their time and a lot of his former workers wouldn't mind knocking his wrinkled ass into next week. Just like Bret Hart did.

Vince's ass isn't wrinkled, haven't you seen it? He shows it all the time. Hell, it even has its own cartoon!

 

[Ushiku]

I'm not sure, but with the nature of their campaign I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make capital of Paul Heyman's release, but that could be counter-productive - especially if TNA is an option for him.

They made capital of the Hardy Boyz open invitation, and though WWE act like they're ignoring them and all is fine, they can't deny the loud TNA chants at a live WWE event - December to Dismember. Although knowing Vince McMahon, he wouldn't want to admit that it shaked him, even if it did.