Official Raw/Smackdown Aftermath, Ratings and Review Thread | Page 118 | WrestleZone Forums

Official Raw/Smackdown Aftermath, Ratings and Review Thread

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Grade tonight's RAW.

  • A

  • B

  • C

  • D

  • F


Results are only viewable after voting.
I thought it was a decent show. HBK's stuff was riveting, however I don't know how a referee really fits in to a Hell in the Cell. Is HBK going to be inside the cell?

I think I like the GM conflict. Regardless, the more Santino the better.

I found Punk getting pinned kind of out of place but he should be able to shake it off. It probably helps Jericho a bit competitively. He seems to need it. He hasn't exactly been convincing in the ring since he came back.

I like the low reverse kick from Eve. It reminded me of a move from the original Nintendo Entertainment System Kung Fu game. Not sure where Ryder is getting thrown back in.

Rhodes-Show and Orton-Kane probably belongs on SD but neither did much to hurt or help the show. Both feuds will probably reach "it is what it is" proportions.

But clearly the whole show was centered around Rock and Cena. Rock delivered with some hilarious promos. Nice to see someone remember that entertainment is supposed to be entertaining. Not sure if Cena is better than what he is getting written for him or if Rock is just that much better but Cena does not seem to be himself. The crowd seemed disappointed that the Rock left and underwhelmed by Cena's celebration at the end.

I give the show 36 stars or a Q-minus. It was the 79th best Raw of all time.
 
Ok, last nights Raw opening with Shawn, and Triple H, kinda hoped for Taker to come out, but I guess they are saving it for next week.Now to the segment, who didn't know Shawn Michaels wouldn't be the Referee for the HITC match.Talk about history huh, the first Hell in the Cell was with Shawn and Taker, and Triple H being the second in command, the roles have changed.I'm still wondering how that match will end, had some ideas, but I think Shawn will screw over Triple H and Taker in pinning situations very late in the match.Segment was ok, kinda the same like last time, but solid for the show. On to the Santino vs Swagger match, United States Title on the line, I guess Santino's hard work paid off, from the Foreign Exchange show he's done, and getting over again, not sure what this really means, considering WWE doesn't respect the Title enough to really have title matches on PPV's, etc.It helps Santino get more air-time but that's it. Ok, Rocky's promos especially the first one, was perfect that's why I wanted outta the Rock, thank you WWE.Eve vs Kelly Kelly, no one care, send both to FCW, and bring up some those ladies, and put AJ Lee and Katiyln in those spots,hey Maxine and matches are better.I didn't care about Eve before the heel turn, and I hate her more now.Best spot in the match, Ryder coming out! I said to my Brother and my Dad, when Ryder came out with the Cane, I said the Godfather let Ryder use the pimp cane, where's the ho's at?


Show/Rhodes feud is ok right now, Show wins every match with making fun of Show, WM match with them, should be good to see, due to the size difference Kane and Orton feud, should be great to watch, the promos will own, cause both men will be great, their know what to to tell a story..Punk/Sheamus vs Jericho/Bryan solid, but didn't blow my mind.Now to the meat and potatoes, Rock and Cena confronation.Rocky went in the face, nose to nose to Cena, and called him a bitch, now in my hood, those are fighting words.Now when you talk about someone from a distance, and a man gets in your face, and you do nothing, tells me, those muscles on Cena might be losing it's air...Now Cena did make some faces, and the crowd chanted, Tooth Fairy, I was hoping for the fans to chant Marine, that would of really great.I also saw the writing on the arms of Cena, to get one last shot at Rock, he did he after Rock left, but smart to do that.Now Rocky owned, but Cena had his jabs.This is what I want, Raw overall was overall, but Rock and Cena kept it interesting..
 
HBK's stuff was riveting, however I don't know how a referee really fits in to a Hell in the Cell. Is HBK going to be inside the cell?

Good point. By its very nature, a Hell in the Cell match is about the fighting, not outside interference. In this match, particularly, it's about two guys who beat the hell out of each other last year doing it again. Plus, I can't believe the referee of a contest like this would be there to do anything but count to three or acknowledge a tapout. There's not going to be a tricky ending to this one, is there? Please, no!

I figure the company will never end Undertaker's streak.....but if they somehow did, it would be clean and honest, not the result of a guest referee cheating 'Taker of victory because he favored his friend. Conversely, I can't envision 'Taker winning this match only by virtue of Shawn Michaels doing Triple H out of a well-deserved victory, can you?

However, if all this is so, what in the world will HBK be there to do? Hopefully, he's around just to increase the buy rate for the event and won't be tainting the decision.....although if ever there were a match that didn't need anything but the two participants, this would be it.
 
However, if all this is so, what in the world will HBK be there to do? Hopefully, he's around just to increase the buy rate for the event and won't be tainting the decision.....

This is exactly what HBK is there for imo. He may not even get involved, but him being there and being the ref just adds another dimension to this thing. It's not the first time we see a guest ref in a big Mania match...we had Shamrock for Austin/Hart, Tyson as enforcer and making the count in Michaels/Austin, Austin last year, etc. Having these 3 guys whose careers have been so intertwined together again will in itself be a Wrestlemania moment. Just think about that...the 2 guys who define HIAC having that match at Mania. You don't need to, but how can you add to that? You throw in a guest ref who has had rivalries with both, had the first HIAC match with one, and got retired by that same one, while the other is his best friend...it's drama.

HBK is one of the most beloved superstars of all time same as Austin, Rock, Hart, Hogan, etc. People WILL tune in when he comes around. WWE knows this so they take advantage of it and not just for Mania either...next week we will see HBK, Taker, HHH, and the Rock all on Raw. We haven't been able to say that in 10 years so it feels special and people will tune in. As always, the Road to WM has been great and these kinds of things are part of the reason why.

As for the match, I see it going one of two ways. Either Michaels really does call it down the middle...maybe at most having some close counts contested by both HHH and Taker. Or he tries to screw one...I think what they do here is make us believe it's HHH he'll screw, but in fact it'll be Taker. Still though, Taker will kick out and overcome the greatest of odds to go 20-0.
 
Last night's Raw was all about the promos. It would've been nice to have had more good wrestling besides the tag match but, especially during WM season, you're occassionally going to have an extremely promo heavy episode.

HBK & Triple H opened things very nicely with HBK acting somewhat snotty through much of it and keeping the tension between them at a good level. I thought Trips did a good job of selling that he was uncomfortable around Shawn as well. HBK announcing he was the special ref came out of left field and I'm actually glad the commentators didn't go on and on about it all night. It'll be cool to see him there and his presence will not only add another layer to the story, but it'll create wonder as to how he's going to conduct himself as special ref. I don't expect Taker to lose but the key to these matches every year now is to give the impression of The Streak being in jeopardy. In most epic movies I've watched, I've had a general idea how they'd end but the fun was watching the story play out. Same thing with Taker's WM matches.

The other theme of the night, and the one that dominated much of the show, was the follow up with John Cena & The Rock. The Rock's "history lesson" promos were fun and sorry for the Michael Cole reference, but they felt like "Vintage Rock". He said some funny stuff and incorporated it into hyping himself while running Cena into the ground. Their in-ring confrontation also worked really wel I thought and, in my view, I still thing Cena came out looking better. Cena's messages continued to be more straight forward, he was a little cutesy last night, but he definitely kept the edge up that we've seen with him for a while. Cena mocked just about everything Rock did with so little effort that I just found myself liking Cena more and more. Cena smirking at Rock as if he were a joke, calling him "Captain Catchphrase" and the little added joke by glancing at the "note" he'd cribbled on his arm about Rock's height & weight were really nice. Even though the crowd started out hostile towards Cena, a lot of them very much warmed up to him by the time the promo was over. After all, The Rock was getting a good amount of boos and the "Tooth Fairy" chant from the Boston crowd indicated, to me, that Cena won some people over by pointing out a few "truths".

The tag match between CM Punk & Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan & Chris Jericho was fun, though I would've liked to have seen Bryan get some more offense. Having Jericho score a clean win over Punk makes perfect sense and the both of them just looked really sharp against each other.

Swagger vs. Santino wasn't really much, but I can honestly say I have no problem with Santino winning the United States Championship. The GM feud continues to interest me. I think Big Johnny & Teddy Long are both doing, surprisingly, a good job and seem genuinely hostile to each other at times.

The rest of the wrestling action really wasn't worth mentioning but, all in all, a good solid B for Raw.
 
I actually enjoyed the Rock's segments on RAW and am enjoying the change in direction so far in Cena. He doesn't need to turn heel or even tweener he just needs to go the direction he is now.
 
HBK/HHH was fuckin miserable. Goddamn, let's talk in circles about nothing and look cross eyed at each other for 10 minutes only to find out it's a kliq circle jerk at mania. HBK being reff just oozes bullshit. So either HBK is going to screw HHH out whne he has the match won, or he's going to try to give HHH the match and HHH is going to do the good guy thing and not accept it. Or they're going to have a normal match and having him as reff doesn't even really matter (I guess from the hype perspective but the live audience seemed to give less and less of a shit as the promo dragged on).

The rest of Raw was awesome. Rock's first promo was really good. then the 2nd was the same thing "history lesson, I have a huge dick, I want to stick something in Cena's ass". Cena's empty arena promo was too cheesey for even me to justify.

The end promo made it all worth it though. It was awesome.

Those of you saying that rock is holding back are pretty stupid. You do realize that what he's doing now is ALL he's ever done right? Dick jokes, sticking people up their asses, saying things that don't really make any sense (possum piss?). THIS is the Rock. The same Rock that said "Kane wants to buy the Undertaker chocolates, Undertaker wants to tickle Kane's big red nipple". Maybe you just let nostalgia convince you that he was better than he really was? I don't think Cena looked bad when rock called him a bitch because...that's just a really dated and white trash thing to say. The whole point Cena's character is making is that Rock's character is dumb. catchphrase catchphrase dickjoke cuss catchphrase. It's genius. If you are more like the Rock's character, you like him, if you are more like Cena's character, you like him. It's awesome, love the feud. My gf says she legitimately hates Rock's character, says she doesn't know if Rock is or isn't a dick in real life but doesn't care and doesn't want to know, it's fun. She's been a fan for about a year and she is getting emotionally involved in this feud.

Santino getting a HUUUGE pop when he won and BTW, fuck you morons who think wrestling is supposed to be serious all the time. Who do did they care more about? The normal "grr" guys or Santino who entertains them?

The tag match with jericho/Bryan vs Sheamus/Punk was pretty good. I liked all the little stories they told. Fun stuff.

Also like the continuing of teddy vs ace. I hope they use it to get guys over with a team ted vs team ace thing. as over as teddy and ace are, I still don't want them to have an actual match, maybe a confrontation and fight after the tag match.
 
Not a great show wrestling-wise, but they had some good promos. I hope Sheamus and Daniel Bryan get a more meaningful interaction than the irregular run-ins and tag team matches. The promos have been okay, I just want something better than, "Daniel Bryan is a bully now, just like I was when I won the WWE Championship, so to teach him a lesson about bullying, I'm going to beat the shit out of him."
 
Not a great show wrestling-wise, but they had some good promos. I hope Sheamus and Daniel Bryan get a more meaningful interaction than the irregular run-ins and tag team matches. The promos have been okay, I just want something better than, "Daniel Bryan is a bully now, just like I was when I won the WWE Championship, so to teach him a lesson about bullying, I'm going to beat the shit out of him."

That's a good analysis, but I liked Sheamus's explanation, but only as a start to the feud; this can not be the primary basis of their feud in my opinion. Look at some of the other matches. Cena vs The Rock, Jericho vs Punk, HHH vs Undertaker, even Orton vs Kane. These people make you think that they legitimately hate each other; like there is more to the feud than, "after I win, I'm going straight to the next guy". Bryan and Sheamus currently just have the title between them. Aside from that, they don't seem to have much of a problem between each other, so it feels more like a match than a feud. Hopefully they fully use Raw and Smackdown to kick the feud up a notch.
 
Once again, another top notch SmackDown tonight. I love how every show gets more and more interesting heading into WrestleMania. I'm gonna bypass all the small stuff and get to the juicy stuff that went down.

The opening match was a pretty solid Cage match between Swagger and Santino. I see they really applaud Santino's work in the Chamber and are giving him a strong run as the US Champion. Either Santino and Swagger are gonna battle over the US Title at Mania or they're gonna represent Team Long and and Team Laurinatis. Anyway, they set up a great finish with Vickie slamming the Cage door in Swagger's face. Can't wait to see how this carries over on RAW.

I see WWE is really pushing the team of Truth and Kingston. They got another win over the Tag Team Champions tonight, and I heard Josh say something about Kofi and Truth deserving a Tag Team Title Match. Looks like we have our Tag Team Championship match for WrestleMania. Whether they're gonna add Ziggler and Swagger along with them is up in the air. But Primo and Epico need to look strong as the Champions. They've got a long way to go to make the people care about the guys carrying the gold.

Long and Laurinatis really reached a boiling point here IMO. Contrary to what others say, this GM Feud is great. All the tension, running each others shows, and then what happened tonight. It's been nothing but chaos when both men are present at ringside. It's almost as good as Bischoff/Long back in 2005. I expect this GM vs GM match to be announced on RAW. They can't possibly milk this any longer. Time to see who's gonna be on what team!

Daniel Bryan and Sheamus. It was nice to finally have these guys address each other before Mania. Bryan's promo was pretty damn good, along with Sheamus' They both made it pretty clear how they both feel about each other. This promo was well needed. As much as I love AJ, I had to laugh when Bryan told her to shut up. This AUTOMATICALLY put the thought in my head that AJ might screw over Bryan at Mania and help Sheamus win the title.

Onto the Main Event! It's not everyday, you get a Main Event like that. Great 6 Man Tag Team match. Everybody got some action in and they did two things I liked:

1) They gave Bryan and Sheamus more time to face each other in the ring and show us what we're in for at Mania.

2) Show and Rhodes didn't have much contact at all. I like this cause it really builds this match up so we can't wait to see Show finally get his hands on Rhodes.

Going back to the match, it was great and was given enough time to really make the main event mean something. The ending of course with Orton getting the win gave the crowds a positive feeling and then out came Kane. They brawled to end the show.

Week by week, SmackDown is getting better and better as we move closer to WrestleMania. This show was one of the best this year already. Gotta love WrestleMania Season.
 
LSN's Raw Hits and Misses for 3/13/2012

Raw Hits:​

John Cena's rap: First off, I enjoyed the old throwback with Cena's old music and former look. When Cena was the Dr. of Thuganomics, he either came out dressed in the jersey of the city's player he was appearing in, or in their rival's jersey when he was a heel. So nostalgia is part of what made this a hit for me.

What I loved the most is that Cena continues to be self-deprecating, which leaves Rock with no ammunition against him. Tonight was no different. Further, despite taking several "non-PG" digs at Rock, Cena continued to focus on the importance of the match between he and Rock. In between Tooth Fairy's and Cleveland Steamers, Cena placed top priority on the importance of winning the match in the context of the rap. This was a nice breather from the intense segments from the past few weeks between Cena and Rock, and it was smart to keep them apart for a week, as I imagine they'll go into overdrive in the next two weeks leading up to Wrestlemania.

Dolph Ziggler vs Sheamus: I liked the skybox approach they took with Wade Barrett when he was feuding with Randy Orton, and I liked it here as well with Daniel Bryan and AJ. As for Sheamus, he continues to plow through the upper mid-card of Raw and Smackdown, but tonight, in a far more competitive and longer match then usual. Was the outcome ever in doubt? No. But Ziggler unsurprisingly shined in the 12 minutes the two were given, and Sheamus continues to build momentum on the way to his title match at Wrestlemania. It's a simple story of the man who won the Rumble wants the title, and is being built up as the easy favorite. It almost makes me wonder if they'll swerve us and have Bryan retain, but that's doubtful with the momentum they've put behind Sheamus. A solid match and another good win for Sheamus over a credible opponent. ***

HBK and The Undertaker: As I mentioned earlier, I feel it was a good idea for Cena and Rock to get a breather of sorts, allowing other feuds to get some shine. Though the Jericho promo may be the most memorable moment from tonight's show, this was easily the best overall segment on the show. Shawn was fantastic in his tweener role, provoking the Undertaker. Last week, he planted seeds of dissension that he would screw HHH, and planted those same seeds with regards to Undertaker as well. I was unsure about inserting HBK into the match, as I felt Hell In a Cell was big enough, but HBK is the true wild card here that makes this match close to a toss-up. I still fully believe Undertaker will win, but the build is doing it's damndest to plant those seeds of doubt. Having HHH come out and exchange glances with Undertaker before crotch chopping him played on a possible alliance even further. Great segment.

James Roday: He's my favorite actor, and was genuinely funny both in his backstage interactions with Miz and Ace and his in-ring announcing. For those who watch the show, the wrestling lingo that's thrown around sometimes on Psych indicates that he has a genuine passion for the wrestling product as well. He wasn't overexposed, and truly seemed to enjoy himself. Further, his involvement with Miz seems to indicate that Miz has a true storyline going forward, and isn't simply being squashed week in and week out like a common jobber. Pure entertainment from Roday, even though he missed his cue terribly in announcing Punk as the winner of the match between he and Miz. ;)

Chris Jericho promo: Am I a fan of incorporating real life issues into storylines? No. But this worked on so many levels. For the average viewer, here's all the ammunition you need to truly want to see Chris Jericho get his ass kicked at Wrestlemania. That's perfect storytelling. The manipulative, shameless heel crosses the line, and suddenly the babyface champion who has never come across as terribly sympathetic looks incredibly so. The lack of a rebuttal from Punk was the appropriate response as well, as he sold Jericho's promo on his dad and his alcoholism as a kick to the nuts. Perfect execution here by both Jericho and Punk, and this feud has truly been taken to that "next level."

Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger: Another match in which the outcome was never in doubt, but it was a much more competitive affair then I expected. Orton and Swagger both sold great for the other, and I was surprised Swagger got so much offense in. Of course, he means so little that there was no chance of him winning then match, but he's enhanced by looking strong against Orton. The post-match pyro and red lights were predictable as some Kane presence was predictable. Personally, I'd prefer mind games later, with an explanation as to why this feud is happening first. But that doesn't diminish a solid outing from Orton and Swagger. **1/4.

Hype for Christian's return: Although this is obviously a vehicle to hype the 6 on 6 tag match to determine the fate of the GM's, it presented Christian as important, which is something WWE was failing utterly in doing before his injury. Simple and effective.

Raw Misses:

"Rock" concert: If you see my signature below, you know there's an inherent bias here. To be honest, I found Rock to be entertaining, enjoyable, and laugh out loud funny. And this was also a waste of 20 minutes. It was nothing more then the Rock recycling the same insultsfrom the past- Ones that Cena has already called him out on- in song form. It did nothing to hype Wrestlemania, as there was nary a mention of Rock's desire to beat Cena at Wrestlemania. I don't mind the breather before they go into the hard sell the next two weeks, but something of substance from Rock would have been nice. There wasn't any of that to find here.

Zack Ryder and Eve: Eve's enhanced look aside, this program, wherever it's headed, is a total mess. Ryder was one of the hottest commodities in the company just a few short months ago, and he looks like nothing more then a complete tool to get over Eve's heel persona. He's apparently forgotten about the US title, and Kane brutally attacking him 15 times. I'm not a huge Ryder fan, but there's no denying his popularity, and WWE is dropping the ball in a major way with regards to his character, in a way he'll likely never recover from.

Brodus Clay returns: I thought they'ld hold off from bringing him back until after Wrestlemania, but they brought him back tonight for what? To show that he could squash another lower-card heel? It's already been established he's capable of doing that, so this felt like nothing more then filler. There's always the possibility he'll factor into the Laurinitis/Long feud due to Laurinitis delaying his debut and then pulling him off the show for a month, but if not, this was a waste of ten minutes, nine minutes of dancing, that should have been otherwise used for hyping Wrestlemania.

The battle of the GM's: First off, we have the new US champion getting squashed. Yes, I realize Santino is portrayed as a comedy character, but he's also the captain of Teddy Long's team, where he's, you know, fighting for his job? The match and aftermath did a nice job of re-asserting Henry as a dominant heel, and making it seem as if the odds are stacked against Long and his team. Unless this is an elimination match, making this a 12 man tag match is a mistake, as the GM's will completely overshadow the wrestlers as they've already done at every turn. I'd much rather have seen both GM's pick a representative to fight for them, freeing up some of the other talent to flesh out a very weak undercard.

Final Thoughts:​

This was a very good show, with a nice couple of twists introduced. The Jericho/Punk feud has progressed from two men fighting over "Best in the World" into something personal, but in a positive way. Part of being the best is being able to find weaknesses in an opponent, and exploit them, and Jericho did that masterfully tonight, and Punk sold it like a pro. The HHH/Undertaker match continues to benefit from the presence of HBK, who prevents a true sense of suspense and doubt through his role as guest referee, and the seeds planted that he could turn on one or the other. Cena and Rock got a nice breather before they go into "hard sell" mode the next two weeks. And while the outcomes were predictable, we were given two highly competitive, well-wrestled matches with Sheamus/Ziggler and Orton/Swagger. James Roday was entertaining and didn't get in the way, and he re-inforced that there's a definite storyline in play for Miz, despite another squash. The battle of the GM's is a mess, Rock's concert was entertaining but did nothing in terms of plugging Wrestlemania, and the timing of bringing Brodus back is questionable. But the negatives are minor compared to the positives, as most of the Wrestlemania feuds are being pushed along nicely. I'll go with a B+ for this show.
 
When Jericho first mentioned that CM Punk's dad was an alcoholic, my response was to roll my eyes and think, "here we go again, another overly artificial and lame way to make a feud have a personal edge". I'm glad to admit that I was completely wrong. Jericho's follow through and CM Punk's freakishly well-done shocked/depressed reaction made it the segment of the night for me. His whole body reacted from facial expressions to posture to even the walk. Props to the E, Jericho, and especially Punk for adding a whole new depth to this feud. I had no idea that Punk had this in him, and this is the first time that I'm impressed with his promo work since his famous "shoot", and he didn't even have to speak.

Not too long ago, I had mostly negative things to say about Punk's work outside of actually working a match, especially when he became a clear face. These last two weeks, particularly this Monday's, changed my perception of him completely. I honestly do hope that this segment doesn't go completely under the radar due to Cena and The Rock's promos, which were good in their own right, but didn't touch Punk/Jericho's work in my opinion.

I don't know where they're going next week with this feud, and I was psyched about the actual match from the beginning, but after tonight, I am now paying more attention to the build than I ever was before.
 
WWE Raw Supershow - March 12, 2012

John Cena's Rap - I really enjoyed this segment FAR more than I initially thought I would. I expected Cena to be in full blown cutesy mode in a segment that'd feel like it would be dragged out much longer than it needed to be. I have a feeling that a lot of the live audience in Cleveland had similar expectations. Cena coming out in his old school character was a pleasant surprise and his rap was short, sweet and to the point. He came out to a loud chorus of boos, delivered his rap that was about as far from PG as you can get on live television and got a huge face pop upon leaving. Cena did look sort of ridiculous but, then again, so do most rappers and I enjoyed the way he carried himself out there. Overall, this was the edgiest we've seen Cena in a while and it was fun. Thumbs Up

1. Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - Very good, competitive 12 minute match between two guys that have good chemistry. Ziggler continues to impress me in the ring, especially in the way he sells the moves of his opponents. I don't think anyone in wrestling sells better than Ziggler and he consistently helps make whomever he works with look good. This was also a pretty physical match, I have a feeling Sheamus & Ziggler might have had a talk and agreed to both go kind of stiff here as both guys took and gave some stiff looking shots. Sheamus had a very noticable welt along his lower back from being rammed into the announce table. There were some good near falls here and there, such as Ziggler hitting the Fame Asser and reversing Sheamus' new finisher into a crucafix pin. Sheamus also showed some real strength by standing up from that move with Ziggler still holding on. The end was never really in doubt but the match was a lot more competetive than I expected it. Sheamus gets the win after hitting a quick Brogue Kick. Again, I have to praise Ziggler on his selling. He sold that kick like he just got hit by a Mack truck. ***1/4

2. Santino Marella vs. David Otunga & Mark Henry - Initially, this was announced as a mixed tag match. Marella came out to a good pop with Aksana as his partner. Big Johnny came out shortly afterward to great heat, as usual, and announced a change in the match as it would now be a handicap match. As the match got started, Teddy Long came out and helped Aksana down from the apron and got into another heated confrontation with JL. Teddy gave the crowd a feel good moment when he pushed Big Johnny into a chair, causing him to flail and scramble all over Michael Cole. The match itself was too short to be much of anything, but it was great to see Mark Henry back in the mold of a dominant monster. Otunga & Henry get the win after Henry hits the World's Strongest Slam. Afterward, he & Otunga continue to smack Henry around as a few babyfaces come out to help. Kofi comes out first to help Santino but it soon taken out by Henry with a WSM. R-Truth then runs out and is also quickly beaten down. Otunga hit his finisher on Truth, which looked impressive and delivered a lot of impact, before JL came into the ring and announced that Henry was the second member of his team. Overall, this was a good segment to build up the 12 man tag match at WM. Otunga has been looking better over the past few weeks than he has in a long while. Henry also looked dominant here by just manhandling the babyfaces all over the place. The match wasn't anything to speak of but it did play its part nicely in the overall segment. Thumbs Up

Backstage Segment - They did a few backstage segments here. The first featured Eve initially talking with Zack Ryder, agreeing to go out to dinner with him but saying she wanted to be friends, friends with benefits. Beth Phoenix came out and talked for a bit, complaining that she wasn't featured on the Extra story talking about the Divas and WM. Nothing much here. The second segment featured The Miz interruping Big Johnny on a call with a member of the WWE BOD wanting to be part of WM again. Shortly after, James Roday comes in and does an ok job. He didn't try to hog the spotlight or try to generally just be a pest. JL says that if Miz beats CM Punk, he'll have his WM spot. Nothing great really, but a couple of ok segments. Thumbs In The Middle

3. Brodus Clay vs. Jinder Mahal - Pretty standard squash from Brodus. It was fun to see him back. The live crowds continue to get a kick out of him and I've really grown to like his character. He puts a lot into the Funkasaurus and it shows. Clay gets the win over Mahal after hitting a pretty stiff looking splash. N/A

Shawn Michaels & The Undertaker - Another great promo segment that moved the story of the End of an Era match along nicely. The tension between HBK & Taker was great and Shawn gave the impression to me of someone that was kind of hoping to get into a physical confrontation. They did a good job of creating speculation as to whether or not HBK would side with Taker, side with Trips or call it right down the middle. I really enjoyed Taker's comments about keeping The Streak "pure". It's something we've talked about at various times on these forums. Taker came off as a proud, honorable guy that only wants what's right. If he loses, fine and if he wins, that's fine too but he made no bones that he expected and pretty much demanded that HBK call it right down the middle. Triple H came out briefly on stage as HBK was heading back and his smirk told all the story necessary to imply that his old DX partner might be working with him to end Taker's streak. Taker's facial expressions were good, he sold his frustration at the situation, at Trips' disrespectful crotch chop and not really getting any sort of solidified answer. Again, another great promo segment to build this match. Thumbs Up

4. CM Punk vs. The Miz - Pretty solid match between Punk & Miz. Again, the outcome was never really in doubt here but I had a feeling that something was going to happen. I was expecting Jericho to do a run in to allow Miz to get a win over Punk. Solid action overall with Punk looking crisp as usual. The end comes with Punk locking in the Anaconda Vice, though Miz does a good job of fighting it. I thought he was going to reach the bottom rope with his foot for a bit, but he finally taps at the 6.5 minute mark. Solid match that gave Punk some momentum. **1/4

Jericho Promo - After the match, Jericho pops up on the screen and cuts a promo on Punk. Jericho spends much of the promo telling the crowd about Punk's reasons for going Straight Edge, namely how Punk's father was an alcoholic and how his alcoholism basically led to him being a poor father. Jericho's remarks that alcoholism was part of who Punk really is and how he struggles to hold it at bay was interesting and Punk's reaction, his facial expressions and body language did a good job of telling the story. Punk is the smart mouth anti-hero but he looked very human here. I'm sure that, even though it's part of a story, Punk didn't have to work at all to come up with the melancholy expressions and sadness he displayed. It also put great heat on Jericho. I like that they didn't try to crack jokes, I especially like that Jericho came off as a serious heel that's getting into Punk's head: he gets a clean pinfall win over him in a tag match last week and reveals something painful & personal this week. Thumbs Up

5. Randy Orton vs. Jack Swagger - Another solid match on the show and, again, a more competetive match than I was expecting. Orton & Swagger work pretty well together and it was nice seeing Swagger come off as looking more of a threat to Orton than he has in a long while. Some overall good action with both men getting in a good amount of offense. Again, the outcome here was never in question but, also again, it's good to see that they were given some good time to put on a real match. Orton wins after hitting the RKO at the 8.5 minute mark. **1/4

The Rock Concert - I'm a little mixed here. On one hand, The Rock was pretty enjoyable in my view. The live crowd certainly seemed to get a kick out of the whole thing, which was pretty funny for the most part. At the same time, however, Rock seemed a little silly here. While Cena could be viewed as a little silly here, the fact that Rock's segment lasted for so long and seemed to be made up of so many flat out juvenile antics & comments made him come off as far less intense than Cena did in my opinion. Still, The Rock's natural charisma always makes whatever he's doing interesting. Things have been intense between Cena & Rock these past several weeks, so I think that this was mostly just a bit of a breather. In my view, however, Cena continues to get the best of Rock in these promos and exchanges of insults. Cena is ultimately had more of an edge to him than we've seen in a long time, while The Rock kind of comes off in some ways as a juvenile, self absorbed horse's ass. More and more, when I look at things, I just find myself favoring Cena over Rock. Thumbs In The Middle

Final Thoughts - I thought last night's Raw was another very good episode. One thing I've noticed overall is that there's been much more quality wrestling during the build for WM this year than in the past. They've found a good formula coupling the build of the matches with good promo segments with good wrestling action. Cena's rap and Rock's concert were both enjoyable, though I found Cena's shorter & edgier segment to be the better of the two. Rock was fun, though juvenile at times. Wrestling action was much better this week than last week. Sheamus & Ziggler delivered a great match with good physical action and masterful selling from Ziggler. Punk vs. Miz was a solid match that gave Punk some momentum from last week's loss and Orton vs. Swagger was a good match that was more competetive than I thought it would be. Jericho's promo on Punk was great and he looked like a ruthless heel playing mind games who'll resort to whatever it takes. Punk's expression and body language told a great story, as it's most certainly a source of pain for him in real life. HBK & Taker delivered another high quality promo segment to push the HIAC match between Taker & Trips. The WWE did a good job of establishing doubt & wonder as to how HBK will conduct himself as the special ref, thus doing the necessary task of putting Taker's streak in even more danger. The GM feud is something I continue to like. It doesn't eat up a ton of time and Big Johnny & Teddy Long seem to have good chemistry. The Otunga & Henry vs. Santino match wasn't much but, all in all, worked well with the segment as a whole. Aside from a few minutes of filler here and there, Raw was very entertaining last night and I'm looking forward to this year's WM more than any other in years.

Grade: B+
 
I massively enjoyed the Rock Show and the CM Punk/Jericho interaction last night, really thought those things saved the show from being kinda hum-drum, which the WWE can't afford heading into Wrestlemania.

I'll hand on heart say that I am sick of HBK, HHH and Taker talking at this stage. I like the idea of guys not touching each other til the big show, but we already had that last year with HHH vs Taker. If we get two more weeks of Shawn's woe is me act, Taker saying he needs this, and Triple H saying it's the end of an era I feel this feud will lose momentum. I didn't like HBK being put into the mix anyway, I don't think the match needs it and feel it will cheapen whoever wins victory unless he calls it down the middle, at which point you'll say what was the point? But we need something more from these three, even if it is HBK laying out Triple H and Taker on the go home show.

That said I think the way they will book Wrestlemania is for Undertaker to overcome DX. they could have Shawn try to screw Taker, only for Taker to refuse to be beat and take out Shawn, setting up a Tombstone on Triple H for a fresh ref to make the count. If this is Taker's last Wrestlemania, keep in mind there's a money match left in Taker vs Cena though, then it would be a fitting way to let him walk out of the company.

On to Cena's rap, don't know where to start with this one. First off, he looked ridiculous and like the fraud that the Rock says he is when he came out. Secondly, unless they go full heel turn with him then I see no reason why they would have him cut a non-PG promo, he is supposed to Rise Above Hate and be different from the Rock no? Thirdly, it didn't go anywhere and din't accomplish anything. Just a poor segment, which is disappointing as I feel he upped his game a lot in the past few weeks.

For Punk and Jericho's interaction I will say that I normally hate real life situations being brought into wrestling. But this was done well and plays into Jericho's cowardly act, whilst also giving Punk some much need sympathy from the crowd and allowing him to say later that Jericho is afraid of Punk and has to resort to cheap tricks. Well done from all involved.

The Rock's concert was excellent, some genuine laugh out loud moments in a segment I thought would fall flat. I thought this because previous Rock concerts were done as a heel and he was allowed rip the crowd too, but Rock kept it going and was hilarious. Probably could have done without the Queen song in the end though.
 
Enjoyed the show, the promo's were entertaining (especially Rock and Cena IMO) and some good matches. Thought broadus clay could have done with a longer match as no one really buys being beaten by a suplex and a splash. Seamus v ziggler was best match imo, made the gr8 white look strong and gave ziggler a chance to shine also
 
I will admit when the WordLife music hit I kinda reacted a lil bit. I was actually happy to see John Cena in his Dr. of Thuganomics get up. But as I watched him walk out, expressionless and just weird, I kinda had to go back on my earlier words. I DON'T want to see him doing this again. It was weird and phony in my opinion. Whether or not he's got a good rap game is not in question. But I think in the past 8 years we've been seeing a goody two shoes John Cena and you can't go from Good to Thug and make it believable. Now i'm sure he loves hip hop for real and again, his rap skills are far from average, but I don't buy it anymore.
With that said, he did take a few good shots at the Rock and it was an overall decent promo. Not his best. I actually think the first time he "rapped" at the Rock was his best overall promo of this feud.
Now....on to the Rock Concert.
Rock Owned Cena. Period. Say what you want, it was juvenile..infantile....or anything else you can add an "ile" to, he ripped last night.
What most people are missing is they say his insults where juvenile and blah blah whatever, but I for one, and this is a theory, believe that he literally is toning it down. I think if Vince truly let Rock say what he COULD say, this feud would be a lot more heated than it is. Think about the 11 minute video Rock put up some months back. If he actually SAID all of that stuff, Cena wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Rock has to dial it back some in order for Cena to look good at times.
But even with him holding back he made Cena look like a kindergartener last night. It was laugh out loud funny and to me it was a 3rd round knockout.

Now, fight already.
 
[cL];3771500 said:
I will admit when the WordLife music hit I kinda reacted a lil bit. I was actually happy to see John Cena in his Dr. of Thuganomics get up. But as I watched him walk out, expressionless and just weird, I kinda had to go back on my earlier words. I DON'T want to see him doing this again. It was weird and phony in my opinion. Whether or not he's got a good rap game is not in question. But I think in the past 8 years we've been seeing a goody two shoes John Cena and you can't go from Good to Thug and make it believable. Now i'm sure he loves hip hop for real and again, his rap skills are far from average, but I don't buy it anymore.
With that said, he did take a few good shots at the Rock and it was an overall decent promo. Not his best. I actually think the first time he "rapped" at the Rock was his best overall promo of this feud.
Now....on to the Rock Concert.
Rock Owned Cena. Period. Say what you want, it was juvenile..infantile....or anything else you can add an "ile" to, he ripped last night.
What most people are missing is they say his insults where juvenile and blah blah whatever, but I for one, and this is a theory, believe that he literally is toning it down. I think if Vince truly let Rock say what he COULD say, this feud would be a lot more heated than it is. Think about the 11 minute video Rock put up some months back. If he actually SAID all of that stuff, Cena wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Rock has to dial it back some in order for Cena to look good at times.
But even with him holding back he made Cena look like a kindergartener last night. It was laugh out loud funny and to me it was a 3rd round knockout.

Now, fight already.

Firstly, this is kinda a pet peeve of mine, but your "he literally is toning it down" kinda annoyed me. Don't cheapen the word "literally" for the rest of us who use it properly. Please.

That being said, I mostly disagree with your theory. I think this is the same Rock that we saw years ago when he was with the business. He is getting away with crudely making fun of a sect of fans, saying that he slept with Cena's mom, making fun of Cena's genitalia, and bringing up Cena's personal life (more specifically, his wife). That's about as good as The Rock ever gets with his insults in my opinion.

On the topic of you thinking that The Rock is "owning" Cena, that's fine. I would strongly disagree if you wanted to argue merits (which it didn't seem you were trying to do), but I can see how a promo like that would appeal to a certain type of people.

That being said, I do agree in liking Cena from the last few weeks more than the thuganomics version, but it's probably for different reasons than you. Yes, last night's version was probably more artificial than his normal gimmick, but more importantly, I don't think it fits with this feud at all. If this is an era vs era match, I wouldn't want Cena to constantly tap into an era that he is not representing. As it is, it's fine since it was just twice with them being roughly a year apart, but I just hope it doesn't become more regular. Not for this feud, at least.
 
The numbers are in for Raw last night and, surprisingly, Raw was the #1 show on cable for the first time in quite a while.

Raw drew a 3.27 Nielsen Rating, practically even with the 3.25 last week's show drew. Raw was up a few hundred thousand viewers, however, as the show drew an average of 4,823,000 viewers. The first hour drew 4,670,000 viewers while hour 2 increased to an average of 4,976,000 viewers. Raw was also the #1 show last night among all key male demographics.

I'm surprised by this because, aside from the fall when Monday Night Football airs, Pawn Stars has had a virtual lock on the top spot on Monday nights for quite a while. Something must've happened because both Pawn Stars and American Pickers had a bad night. In terms of overall viewers, for the first time that I can recall, American Pickers outdrew Pawn Stars. American Pickers at 9 pm drew 3.226 million viewers, which is down roughly 2 million viewers from what they've usually been drawing for the past couple of months. Both episodes of Pawn Stars had even bigger drops. The 10 pm episode drew 3.057 million viewers and the 10:30 pm episode drew just a smidgeon more with 3.061 million viewers. It wasn't long ago at all that Pawn Stars was routinely drawing anywhere from 5.5 to 6 million viewers, sometimes a little more. For cable television, they still pulled in strong numbers but not nearly as strong as they were not that long ago. There was an NBA game on ESPN last night but AP & PS have gone up against lots of NBA games lots of times and never experienced such a big drop off. I go to tvbythenumbers.com a few times a week to see what some shows pull, usually out of nothing better to do at the time, and I've started to wonder if the fads that've been Pawn Stars & Jersey Shore are starting to die down since both shows have lost a large number of viewers in a relatively short period of time. Last season, Jersey Shore was doing well over 7 million viewers on Thursday nights. Now, they're roughly in the same neighborhood as Raw.
 
My thoughts on Raw this week, Cena coming out with the old school thugnomics Jersey, funny he seemed more confident as the Rapper, than the current character he protrays.I wonder if WWE will have him keep acting like that, nah! Sheamus vs Ziggler was really good, finish as out of no where, but solid match.Ziggler has fallen so much, it seems he will be apart of Ace's team this year, only match he will have to get into WM, which is sad...Santino chaos, with Henry and Otunga filler to say the least, but I like how guys in the mid-card are getting chances to shine.Taker vs HBK in the verbal war, loved it, I have a feeling Shawn will screw over Taker and Triple H, as both men try to hurt him for interfering somewhere in the match.How about HBK, Taker and Triple H go through the Cell, end of a era,lol.Punk vs Miz, boy is Miz begging for a win somewhere, Punk losing focus was more important than the match.Loved the angle Jericho is going on, my Parents drink, and went to rehab, see the negatives in drinking and doing drugs, not my kind of life I want, Y2J will cut some great promos, maybe visiting Punk's Dad and drinking with him,lol.Orton vs Swagger, meh..meh..meh..The Rock concert 3 was good, not as good as the others, but Rock made me laugh through the whole segment.Overall ok Raw..not great though!
 
Awesome Raw. Old school Cena who does all his stuff without reading it off a paper or using really gimmicky things or tron help.

If you ever want to know how to work a WWE audience, watch what Rock did on Raw.
Gimmicky funny pictures, check. Well rehearsed sing songy promo with rhymes that end in "bitch" or doing someone's mom or someone not being a man, check. A recurring catchphrase/something the people know is coming and can sing along with, check.

The only thing that wasn't textbook that Rock did was whatever the fuck was going on at the end. He either didn't know his lines or didn't rehearse them enough.


LOVED Jericho's promo. Jericho/Punk went from "o cool it's these too" to "o shit it's personal".

Hyped for Mania.

The only thing I didn't like was cross eyes and hair extensions talking about big nose. Seriously, this feud fuckin sucks. HBK, Taker, and HHH just talk slow, ramble, and repeat the same shit EVERY WEEK. the "end of an era prediction"? Hmmm, "HHH YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO QUESTIONS ME" (in a really fake sounding voice) "I'M TAKING YOU TO HEYALL" (how Taker says hell) "I'MA.......THE GAYAMAAAAAAA" (really, what else does he say?). Sooooooo sick of this bullshit feud.
 
[cL];3771500 said:
I will admit when the WordLife music hit I kinda reacted a lil bit. I was actually happy to see John Cena in his Dr. of Thuganomics get up. But as I watched him walk out, expressionless and just weird, I kinda had to go back on my earlier words. I DON'T want to see him doing this again. It was weird and phony in my opinion. Whether or not he's got a good rap game is not in question. But I think in the past 8 years we've been seeing a goody two shoes John Cena and you can't go from Good to Thug and make it believable. Now i'm sure he loves hip hop for real and again, his rap skills are far from average, but I don't buy it anymore.
With that said, he did take a few good shots at the Rock and it was an overall decent promo. Not his best. I actually think the first time he "rapped" at the Rock was his best overall promo of this feud.
Now....on to the Rock Concert.
Rock Owned Cena. Period. Say what you want, it was juvenile..infantile....or anything else you can add an "ile" to, he ripped last night.
What most people are missing is they say his insults where juvenile and blah blah whatever, but I for one, and this is a theory, believe that he literally is toning it down. I think if Vince truly let Rock say what he COULD say, this feud would be a lot more heated than it is. Think about the 11 minute video Rock put up some months back. If he actually SAID all of that stuff, Cena wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Rock has to dial it back some in order for Cena to look good at times.
But even with him holding back he made Cena look like a kindergartener last night. It was laugh out loud funny and to me it was a 3rd round knockout.

Now, fight already.
All Cena did was go back to an old gimmick to prove that it's not that hard to do. He wasn't saying "THIS IS WHO I AM" or "taht's it, I have to do this to match Rock". He was a rock/rap off, so of course he's going to go old school. You think Rock OWNED Cena? Maybe it's because I'm not 16 anymore, but Rock's segment started out funny, then ended up like a seth macfarland segment. Just kept going......and going.....and going......and going......and going.....and going......and going....and going. It was like "I get it, you are reading off your prompt, you have a big dick, you think Cena sucks, you think his fans are virgins, you like to make 1990s references and "make people your bitch" (which I guess is a 1990s reference in itself). Then just when I thought Rock was going to say something that wasn't a rehashed version of his other shit, he missed his lines and flubbed through "we will Rock you" that eventually even the live crowd stopped caring about. I think they sort of went "wait....you're reading your lines.....of the TRON? And still screwing them up?"



Again though, the beauty of it is that the teenage/adults with teenage brains that like the Rock think calling someone a bitch and talking about fucking their mom is the greatest thing ever, so it adds fuel to the fire.
 
My thoughts on Raw this week, Cena coming out with the old school thugnomics Jersey, funny he seemed more confident as the Rapper, than the current character he protrays.I wonder if WWE will have him keep acting like that, nah! Sheamus vs Ziggler was really good, finish as out of no where, but solid match.Ziggler has fallen so much, it seems he will be apart of Ace's team this year, only match he will have to get into WM, which is sad...Santino chaos, with Henry and Otunga filler to say the least, but I like how guys in the mid-card are getting chances to shine.Taker vs HBK in the verbal war, loved it, I have a feeling Shawn will screw over Taker and Triple H, as both men try to hurt him for interfering somewhere in the match.How about HBK, Taker and Triple H go through the Cell, end of a era,lol.Punk vs Miz, boy is Miz begging for a win somewhere, Punk losing focus was more important than the match.Loved the angle Jericho is going on, my Parents drink, and went to rehab, see the negatives in drinking and doing drugs, not my kind of life I want, Y2J will cut some great promos, maybe visiting Punk's Dad and drinking with him,lol.Orton vs Swagger, meh..meh..meh..The Rock concert 3 was good, not as good as the others, but Rock made me laugh through the whole segment.Overall ok Raw..not great though!

Isn't that the main difference between Cena then and now... I refuse to say that ******ed name, I never did then and I never will ever. I find it insulting but that's besides the point. Of course cena came off more confident with the rap edge than now, I think his humility/ doing the good thing and whole marine thing is the main difference. I find the transition amazing, the guy who's stick was reducing women to sex and making pretty much the same jokes as the Rock is all of the sudden more talented because he cut out the edgy possible heelish side of him and made him a straight baby face, I hate to say it, but before families.
 
All Cena did was go back to an old gimmick to prove that it's not that hard to do. He wasn't saying "THIS IS WHO I AM" or "taht's it, I have to do this to match Rock". He was a rock/rap off, so of course he's going to go old school. You think Rock OWNED Cena? Maybe it's because I'm not 16 anymore, but Rock's segment started out funny, then ended up like a seth macfarland segment. Just kept going......and going.....and going......and going......and going.....and going......and going....and going. It was like "I get it, you are reading off your prompt, you have a big dick, you think Cena sucks, you think his fans are virgins, you like to make 1990s references and "make people your bitch" (which I guess is a 1990s reference in itself). Then just when I thought Rock was going to say something that wasn't a rehashed version of his other shit, he missed his lines and flubbed through "we will Rock you" that eventually even the live crowd stopped caring about. I think they sort of went "wait....you're reading your lines.....of the TRON? And still screwing them up?"



Again though, the beauty of it is that the teenage/adults with teenage brains that like the Rock think calling someone a bitch and talking about fucking their mom is the greatest thing ever, so it adds fuel to the fire.

It's just funny, the Rock has charisma, if you don't like it congrats its a matter of taste. But to act like Rock is some how falling off, passed by, or not being successful is denying reality. He gets the biggest pops, the crowd is the most involved they seem to like it, everyone seems to like it except the people who always hated Rock. No one really changes with the times that well, I mean he is 15 yrs deep. lol Hulk Hogan didn't really change from the 80's/early 90's, Rowdy Roddy Piper, he change? What about Jericho, he didn't really change?

So its either they will transcend time because just because his humor appears dated, everyone has uncles, cousins, older brothers, seen youtube clips, whatever or they draw in the old fans. Which it could very well be. Either way WWE's ratings are increasing, they are selling tickets and the crowd, besides a certain section of the internet are happy.
 
It's just funny, the Rock has charisma, if you don't like it congrats its a matter of taste. But to act like Rock is some how falling off, passed by, or not being successful is denying reality. He gets the biggest pops, the crowd is the most involved they seem to like it, everyone seems to like it except the people who always hated Rock. No one really changes with the times that well, I mean he is 15 yrs deep. lol Hulk Hogan didn't really change from the 80's/early 90's, Rowdy Roddy Piper, he change? What about Jericho, he didn't really change?

So its either they will transcend time because just because his humor appears dated, everyone has uncles, cousins, older brothers, seen youtube clips, whatever or they draw in the old fans. Which it could very well be. Either way WWE's ratings are increasing, they are selling tickets and the crowd, besides a certain section of the internet are happy.
I actually said what he did was a textbook way to work the crowd. I meant it, I find it simple and obvious, but it IS textbook.

I'm not denying that Rock isn't over (similarly how Bret Hart is over, Stone Cold, etc). Just saying that his schtick doesn't amuse me and I think it's pretty awesome that people who aren't Rock fans aren't amused, but people who are his fans think it's the greatest thing ever.

Read my other post about how his promo was textbook.

I'm not really criticizing Rock. What I'm saying is this "Rock's humor is like high school humor and it seems that only teens or people with a teenage mindset (white trash) are entertained by him at a high level". I think it's pretty obvious that this is true.
 

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