Officer kills unarmed, black teen; St. Louis riots

[Torgo]

I redirect to what I said about cops needing cameras to not only protect themselves, but also people who would be victimized without them. This could have been handled a shitload more professionally than it was, and that's my gripe.

You know what, you are absolutely right. All this media nonsense could have been avoided if the cops had just one small camera on their gear. Hell, they do it with dash cams, why not cop cams?


George Steels Barber: your knowledge of Buffalo suburbs is...impressive.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

He wasnt the size of a little boy.

Subduing grown men without lethal force is required knowledge when in basic training.

Also how was he to know he was un armed? Wilson had NO IDEA he was unarmed.

All the more reason NOT to shoot the guy, huh?

ALSO he reached down into his pants like he was grabbing a weapon. So PLEASE learn the details before coming up with excuses that arent even probable.

Do you know why he reached down, or are you only supporting one side of an argument? I've kept up with this, and that's why you don't see me favoring either side. I am simply stating the cop was an idiot, which in all due respect, is true.

You've already claimed your racism with the job application joke. You are not intelligent enough to discuss that point any further I am sure.

And officers should never fear for their lives....? What world do you live in?

You really are new here. Word of advice: when arguing with someone, learn context. Nowhere did I say all officers should never fear for their lives. That is a ridiculous point to make in a debate. I said the man that was professionally equipped should have been a professional, and not fire his lethal weapon. He should have had a camera on his person. He works for me and you, the taxpayers. If some kid is going to lose their life, I want to make sure the cop was 100% justified in doing it, wouldn't you?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

You know what, you are absolutely right. All this media nonsense could have been avoided if the cops had just one small camera on their gear. Hell, they do it with dash cams, why not cop cams?


George Steels Barber: your knowledge of Buffalo suburbs is...impressive.

I grew up a white kid in Amherst. I experienced the joy of white privilege. It was cool and I am glad that I did not have to face the challenges that the black kids in my dad's inner city schools had to face. But that was the 80's and 90's, I'm sure things are totally awesome for Buffalo inner city blacks now. Am I right? Is it all bank loans and Obama phones?

 

[The Doctor]

burn this fucking forum to the ground

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

While I agree cameras could potentially solve many questions and variables in law enforcement, they couldn't solve them all. When someone is thrust into a potentially deadly situation you never know how they'll react. In the case of fear, Officer A might've stood his ground, fought valiantly and won or lost. Officer B might've pissed himself or herself (consider that when discussing combat training). The only thing a camera would solve is likely (because there's no guarantee it would get everything) showing what really occurred and letting the proper officials sort out any repercussions.

I guess that's where a trial would be useful though. Also, with all the questions in this case I can see why people are upset that it didn't at least go to trial. It's no excuse to riot though.

 

[Torgo]

I grew up a white kid in Amherst. I experienced the joy of white privilege. It was cool and I am glad that I did not have to face the challenges that the black kids in my dad's inner city schools had to face. But that was the 80's and 90's, I'm sure things are totally awesome for Buffalo inner city blacks now. Am I right? Is it all bank loans and Obama phones?

From what I've heard, it actually is getting a little better. Not joking here. It's not all peaches and unicorns but it's not Camden, NJ either.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

From what I've heard, it actually is getting a little better. Not joking here. It's not all peaches and unicorns but it's not Camden, NJ either.

Glad to hear things are improving in Pegulaville. With every frack he puts in the Earth another black child gets a new ice rink.

Seriously, before you start talking about other's privileges compared to your own remember that you have the privilege to only hear about how things are and do not have to live them.

 

[Torgo]

Glad to hear things are improving in Pegulaville. With every frack he puts in the Earth another black child gets a new ice rink.

Seriously, before you start talking about other's privileges compared to your own remember that you have the privilege to only hear about how things are and do not have to live them.

That's actually some damn fine advice.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

That's actually some damn fine advice.

I learned a lot from the time Boo Radley saved mine and Jem's lives.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Apparently the autopsy was able to determine that his hands werent up. I dont know if thats true but how can the autopsy determine if your hands were up when you were shot? Isnt it possible that once shot your arms could fling around abit no matter where they were?

 

[Барбоса]

The sheer fact that Darren Wilson can claim to have a clear conscience just shows how fucked up that whole part of American society is.

You killed an unarmed man, you stupid little boy. If that does not spark off pangs of guilt then you my friend are a sociopath.

Whoever told Wilson to say that needs a good shake. Do they really think that that is going to help the situation?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

The sheer fact that Darren Wilson can claim to have a clear conscience just shows how fucked up that whole part of American society is.

You killed an unarmed man, you stupid little boy. If that does not spark off pangs of guilt then you my friend are a sociopath.

Whoever told Wilson to say that needs a good shake. Do they really think that that is going to help the situation?

A horrible beating followed by some years in prison is what that asshole needs. Anyone who puts 6 bullets in an unarmed teen has no business as a cop, quite frankly he shouldn't even need a gun to take care of an unarmed teen.

To hear he has a clean conscience over this paints a pretty clear picture of just how fucked up he is.

 

[Барбоса]

A horrible beating followed by some years in prison is what that asshole needs. Anyone who puts 6 bullets in an unarmed teen has no business as a cop, quite frankly he shouldn't even need a gun to take care of an unarmed teen.

First part no. Second part yes.

When I look at Darren Wilson, I see as much a victim as I see a perpetrator. To me, he looks like he has been brainwashed by the media, his training and American society to see reaching for and firing his gun almost immediately as an acceptable response to a threat, particularly from a black man and is now parroting back what someone in the police department hierarchy thinks should be said, even if it proves to be incendiary.

To me, that does not necessarily paint him as evil murderer that one side wants to see him as, but it should disbar him from serving as an officer of the law.

Unfortunately, in the USA, that kind of 'training' seems to account for a sizeable proportion of the police.

Of course, he could just be a sociopath.

 

[Torgo]

He's going to want to go away from police work for a while I think, whether by force or personal decision.


If he truely has a clear conscience, whether the kill was justified or not, then something's not right up north. If I killed a man, lord knows I'd be feeling pretty bad.

 

[enviousdominous]

Yep yep yep, I'm contradicting myself by adding more thoughts. I am a horrible person and I apologize.

Funny what you can find when you read the grand jury testimony.

So the story goes, when Michael Brown and Darren Wilson were struggling as Darren Wilson was sitting in his cop cruiser, Michael Brown had his hand on Darren Wilson's gun and thus prevented a second shot from firing due to Michael Brown having his thumb blocking the hammer.

Obviously if Michael Brown had his hand on Darren Wilson's gun, that would be a life threatening situation prompting a fight or flight response from Darren Wilson. Also obvious, would be the requirement to test Darren Wilson's gun for fingerprints.

No check of fingerprints took place, a detective testified that the gun was swabbed for dna which then made it physically impossible to test the gun for fingerprints. He also explained that the decision to test for dna was based on the assumption that dna results are generally more reliable.

Umm, wait. I don't think that anybody denies that Darren Wilson's gun was used to shoot Michael Brown, thus having Michael Brown's blood on the gun doesn't prove that Michael Brown had his hand on Darren Wilson's gun. Fingerprints now, that would have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Michael Brown had attempted to take Darren Wilson's gun.

There's also the statement from Darren Wilson when he was first interviewed that during the altercation he did not have control of his firearm, a detective involved with the case claimed that the gun was not immediately tested because Darren Wilson never lost control of it.

 

[Torgo]

The whole investigation sucked. From the decisions in investigation, to the media coverage, to the whole closed door grand jury thing.

 

[enviousdominous]

The whole investigation sucked. From the decisions in investigation, to the media coverage, to the whole closed door grand jury thing.

Here's what really irritates me: You have people on both sides claiming certainty regarding key details and you have people using original research to sway public opinion in relation to points that have nothing to do with the incident itself.

The key detail of the struggle within the suv; there is no irrefutable evidence that Michael Brown attempted to take Darren Wilson's gun.

The key detail of if Michael Brown had his hands raised; the only witness statements I've found that dispute this were from Darren Wilson and another witness. That other witness testified that Michael Brown did not have his hands raised in the air, but was instead showing his palms at shoulder height to Darren Wilson. That witness also claimed that Michael Brown did not charge at Darren Wilson.

The key detail of whether or not Michael Brown charged toward Darren Wilson; the only person who reported that Michael Brown had charged at Darren Wilson was Darren Wilson. If you're going to dispute witness testimony on the basis that they likely suffered from the Rashamon Effect and can't be trusted, you must also dispute Darren Wilson's claim that his life was in danger because he perceived as much.

Then there's the release of the surveillance camera's recording of Michael Brown forcefully stealing a box of cigarillos, this video was released during the investigation. The FPD chose not to investigate who had released the footage to the media. I believe that the footage was released to sway public opinion toward the idea that Michael Brown was capable of becoming a homicidal maniac. Maybe it was released by mistake, either way it's foolish to use that example to validate Darren Wilson's actions that day. You don't execute someone for robbery.

Thankfully the entire transcript of the case presented to the Grand Jury is available online for our reference. It's not common for things like that to be made public.

 

[enviousdominous]

The whole investigation sucked. From the decisions in investigation, to the media coverage, to the whole closed door grand jury thing.

Here's what really irritates me: You have people on both sides claiming certainty regarding key details and you have people using original research to sway public opinion in relation to points that have nothing to do with the incident itself.

The key detail of the struggle within the suv; there is no irrefutable evidence that Michael Brown attempted to take Darren Wilson's gun.

The key detail of if Michael Brown had his hands raised; the only witness statements I've found that dispute this were from Darren Wilson and another witness. That other witness testified that Michael Brown did not have his hands raised in the air, but was instead showing his palms at shoulder height to Darren Wilson. That witness also claimed that Michael Brown did not charge at Darren Wilson.

The key detail of whether or not Michael Brown charged toward Darren Wilson; the only person who reported that Michael Brown had charged at Darren Wilson was Darren Wilson. If you're going to dispute witness testimony on the basis that they likely suffered from the Rashamon Effect and can't be trusted, you must also dispute Darren Wilson's claim that his life was in danger because he perceived as much.

Then there's the release of the surveillance camera's recording of Michael Brown forcefully stealing a box of cigarillos, this video was released during the investigation. The FPD chose not to investigate who had released the footage to the media. I believe that the footage was released to sway public opinion toward the idea that Michael Brown was capable of becoming a homicidal maniac. Maybe it was released by mistake, either way it's foolish to use that example to validate Darren Wilson's actions that day. You don't execute someone for robbery.

Thankfully the entire transcript of the case presented to the Grand Jury is available online for our reference. It's not common for things like that to be made public.

 

[A11oftheLights]

I've got to say he's an absolute ****** for saying what he said on TV. Ferguson is on fire and he metarphorically poured gasoline on top of it all.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The wound on browns hand had gun barrel residue inside of it. It is physically impossible for that to occur unless he had his hand on the gun in the exact fashion in which the officer said he did.

The trajectory of the entry and exit wounds on micheal brown also support the officers recanting of the events. Ballistics such as the ones involved in this case, once again, are physically impossible outside of the events which were described by the officer (IE that the individual lowered his head, and charged at the officer)

The witnesses, when cross examined, we're shown to be either inconsistent in their retelling of the events, or admitted they straight out made up that they were even there....and were simply repeating hearsay.

This was proven beyond reasonable doubt with every means of science we utilize to justify or condemn. Everyone needs to stop trying to gloss over the fact that brown was 100% at fault, and everything the officer did was well within the prescribed ROE.

Man, I sure love watching people who have never been in a life or death situation talking about what someone should or should not do.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The key detail of the struggle within the suv; there is no irrefutable evidence that Michael Brown attempted to grab darren willsons gun

But there was. The autopsy showed residue in browns hand wound was consistent of that which comes off a gun barrel when it interacts with a bullet going through it. The entry would was also consistent with someone having their hand wrapped around the front of the barrel, just the way officer wilson said it was.

The ballistics study on the other entry/exit wounds (specifically the fatal one, which entered right above the hairline, and exited through the lower jaw/bottom of the mouth) also supported him charging the officer in the fashion the officer said he did.

 

[Shocky]

I see there has been a run on tin foil hats since I've been on sabbatical.

 

[Torgo]

What I don't get also is why is no one protesting the 90 plus daily shootings in Chicago?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

What I don't get also is why is no one protesting the 90 plus daily shootings in Chicago?

How would this work and what would it accomplish?

 

[lil steroid meat]

What I don't get also is why is no one protesting the 90 plus daily shootings in Chicago?

http://cureviolence.org/partners/illinois-partners/

You can see them in action if you care to sit through this documentary. I watched it a while ago so I don't remember the exact time they show up.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Neof7kh72rg[/YOUTUBE]

People always try to go to this angle when situations similar to this happen. And they never know what they're talking about lol.

The situation in Chicago goes a lot deeper than people just shooting for the hell of it. It has to do with gang culture and a lot of the strong male figures/community leaders (that had authority in the gang culture to stop these shootings) being targeted and locked up.

Why does no one protest/talk about white on white crime?