Midcard Titles and Unification?

[Trail_Blazin]

The United States Title
The United States Title almost seems to be the current version of the European Title. That's not a knock on Ambrose, or the people who have held it. But really, it seems to me like the US Title is treated a lot differently than the Intercontinental Title. In the WWE, the US Title hasn't been held in amazing light, even though it's roots were steeped in tradition.

When the belt originated, Harley Race was the original US Champ. Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Roddy Piper, Wahoo McDaniel, Sgt. Slaughter, Tully Blanchard, Magnum T.A., Lex Luger, Dusty Rhodes, Michael Hayes, Sting, Rick Rude, Stunning Steve Austin, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Jeff Jarrett, Curt Hennig, DDP, Goldberg, Bret Hart, Scott Hall all held the title when it was "important".

Since the WWE came into possession of it, Booker T, Kurt Angle, Edge, Cena, Eddie were all champions in the early part of the ownership. It got off to a great start. And even then, some decent names of wrestling have held the title, including current champion Dean Ambrose. But the title just isn't booked to have any sort of importance. It's clearly the number three title, based on how it's been relegated to pre-shows.

I don't like having two "primary" mid card titles (in theory anyways), and if there is a need for a number three, it needs to be a clear cut number three. Much like the TV Title in WCW, there was no doubt that it was the third most important singles title.

The Intercontinental Title
Pat Patterson, Don Muraco, Pedro Morales, Tito Santana, Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior, Honky Tonk Man, Kerry Von Erich, British Bulldog, HBK, Nash, Goldust, HHH, The Rock, Owen Hart, Jericho, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Christian, Regal, RVD, Orton, Umaga, Punk, JBL, Mysterio, Michaels... And that's not to mention names like Benoit, Austin, Steamboat, Jarrett, Perfect, Hart, Piper and Rude and so many others who also held the US Title.

The Intercontinental title used to be a huge aspiration. Guys like Perfect held that title and gave it a ton of prestige. And while he never became the WWE Champion, the belt was clearly a sign of a guy who was ready to take the next step if they had a good run. Shawn Michaels held that title before he became Mr. WrestleMania, HHH and the Rock held it before they went on their runs. That title was seen as the "trial" run for future world champions. It was a big deal. It's not so much lately.

The Problem with Two Mid Card Titles
There are two titles for the mid card guys to compete for. And while some view that as a good thing, because it allows for more guys to be involved in storylines for titles, I view it as oversaturation. With the absence of the brand extension, the need for two midcard titles just isn't there. The champions list has been watered down a bit since the brand extension.

We recently saw the WWE and World Heavyweight titles unified. I think wrestling would take a HUGE forward step with the unification of the US and Intercontinental titles. I think the storyline leading into the unification would be huge. Video packages highlighting everyone who's ever held either belt, tremendous midcard hype. And after the title is unified, the title needs to be distinguished the same way the World Heavyweight Title was used prior to unifications. It needs to be treated with value.

What do you think? Should they be unified? Or should they just be distinguished as the #2/#3 titles? Or should things be kept status quo?

 

[Dagger Dias]

The Intercontinental and US Championships should not be unified. Now that the World Heavyweight Championship is no longer with us, any feud/storyline that was about that title can go to the Intercontinental Championship. It gives that title more importance to have former WWE/World Champions and wrestlers further up the card going after it like in the good old days. It was the #2 title then and it will be again now. The US Championship can then be up for grabs by the true midcarders as the #3 belt. I do not want to see a midcard title unification at this time. There are enough wrestlers on the card to justify having three clear singles title tiers. The World title tier for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship where the (kayfabe) best of the best contend, the secondary tier for the Intercontinental Championship for upper card wrestlers, and the lower tier for the US Championship for midcarders. Anyone below that can form a tag team to go after the giant pennies or be in non-title feuds.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Quick answer - NO. WWE doesn't have enough championships as is. There's nothing for most of the roster to fight for. I'm against title unification and always will be. I feel WWE should have a minimum of 7 or 8 championships.

 

[Trail_Blazin]

The Intercontinental and US Championships should not be unified. Now that the World Heavyweight Championship is no longer with us, any feud/storyline that was about that title can go to the Intercontinental Championship. It gives that title more importance to have former WWE/World Champions and wrestlers further up the card going after it like in the good old days. It was the #2 title then and it will be again now. The US Championship can then be up for grabs by the true midcarders as the #3 belt. I do not want to see a midcard title unification at this time. There are enough wrestlers on the card to justify having three clear singles title tiers. The World title tier for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship where the (kayfabe) best of the best contend, the secondary tier for the Intercontinental Championship for upper card wrestlers, and the lower tier for the US Championship for midcarders. Anyone below that can form a tag team to go after the giant pennies or be in non-title feuds.

Keeping the US Title would make sense in that capacity. But there would have to be a clear distinction between the Intercontinental Title and the US Title. And to me, keeping the US Title as the #3 is a bit disrespectful to people like Harley Race and Ric Flair, and even Lex Luger, who held that belt with pride. To put it in line with the European Title as far as importance goes is kind of a slap in the face.

I'd much rather they brought back the European Title, or created a new Television Title than lower the prestige of the US Title. In a unification sense, at least the US Title would in some way, shape or form live on in the manner that it was once regarded.

 

[Wald]

Until creative are able to come up with meaningful storylines for their midcard than they simply have to keep both the US and IC titles I'm afraid. They add some lustre to a match, not much but something at least and better than anything creative have come up with for most of the guys fighting over them in a long while.

In the long run I'd love for them to ditch the US title and bring in a TV title that is defended on Raw and Smackdown without fail. There's a lot you can do to build a fighting champion face or a cowardly heel character with that spot and I feel like it could help the product a lot to have it.

You could try to push the IC belt back to prominence again and only have it fought for on PPV but at this stage there's been too much damage done to it. They can talk about how it was a springboard to greatness for the Macho Man, HBK, Rock, Austin and Bret Hart all they want but when they treat like an afterthought it will never get over. Especially if they keep having the reigning champion lose to the WWE champion on television each week like they have done in the past

 

[Immorta124]

honestly you can merge the u s ic and tag team titles but it still wont get any value because it has nothing to do with the titles but the geniuses at wwe who only push the wwe title. remember 10 years ago when even the mid carders and low carders would get tv exposure?? now their sense of hyping is sandow staring at big e langston are you kidding me

 

[Redrum]

You cant unify the mid card titles now with only one world title. The only way that would work is to do a decent size roster cut. You already have cut out alot of people who could of won a WWE or WHC title in the next year or so and bumped them down to only mid card title dreams. If you take away one of the mid card titles alot of people will never have a sniff of any title save for the tag titles

The only way i would think unifying them would be a good idea is if they brought back say the European championship, A TV title,or a hardcore title. Something they can clearly say is a stepping stone title that is for Mid to Lower mid card guys. Something that can be defended on PPV's when its a really good story but alot of the time will be defended on TV at least two times a month.

Granted you could do this now but i would rather they retire/merge the US title into the IC title then destroy its legacy by kicking it down to the entry level title.

In a ideal world it would be WWE World Heavyweight Champion>>IC>>>Euro/TV Title Holder.

They just have way too many people on the roster who NEED a belt to help get them over and to that next level for there to only be two singles titles and no brand split. Evey one needed a singles title at some point to get over at first in the modern era. Be it Taker,Cena,HBK or the Rock they all needed titles at some point to get the boost they needed.

 

[MCMG]

Now they have unified the World Titles they can't do likewise with the Mid-card championships. It would leave too few belts and then there would be an issue.

In theory, one World Title will improve the standard of the midcard. It should ensure some of the upper mid-carders drop down as well as ensuring they put greater emphasis on the IC belt.

In the late 90's and early 2000's there was the European Title that was generally used for low mid-carders. The first 18 months the belt was held by guys like The British Bulldog, HBK and Triple H but thereafter it didn't have much going for it. Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit had a short feud for it before it went back into obscurity.

The WWE is fortunate that there is a lot of talent so if they do use the U.S title for lesser superstars then we will still see decent matches and feuds - granted they actually give a shit. They definitely shouldn't be unifying the US and Intercontinental Championships; merely giving each belt greater attention.

 

[dx4life]

When you have a three hour show, you have apathy in the crowd and apathy from the viewers. Multiple titles do not have the same feel for the audience then when it was the old model of WWE, IC, Tags, Women's belts. Additions over the years of the WHC, US, and WWE Tags (Pre-tag title merging) was overkill.

While the company has alot of performers, who amongst them has an audience that gives a damn. When Axel had IC belt, who went to the kitchen for a drink or to the restroom to take a piss? Same thing with Del Rio? Does anyone care that Ambrose or Big E Langston have belts? (Que crickets)

Even the unification match for WWE/WHC underwhelmed....Face it the WWE killed the value of the titles because there is no value to them. CM Punk's reign was a great period of time for the WWE Title. Edge was last great WH Champion.....The tag belts are competitive now and are the only titles that get a real crowd pop....The times have changed...Time to sreamline the championship structure....While they are at, cut RAW back to two hours and make Smackdown Live, and you may be on to something in the future.

 

[Trail_Blazin]

I think a lot of you are more opposed to only having two single titles than you are the unification of the IC/US. I guess I just have a problem with the US Title being relegated to low mid card fodder. I'd 100% much rather see it unified with the IC so that the two titles can live together in importance.

The twist would be the involvement of the European Title or a new WWE TV Title. I'm actually extremely intrigued by the idea of a TV title, much like some of the above posters pointed out. Extremely lucrative matches can occur on PPVs, or on pre-shows. Otherwise, the title is defended often on WWE TV. Sometimes against a random, sometimes against a rival. I always loved WCW when the TV Title matches had time limits. I think that would be cool for the under card to have, and it could act as a litmus test for the IC Title. And of course, the IC is the litmus for the WWEWHC Title.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

A little while back, shortly before TLC, WWE.com had an article up talking about 5 ways in which having one World Championship, again, would change the landscape of the company. I was personally thrilled when I saw that one of those ways specifically mentioned the Intercontinental Championship getting a boost.

Once upon a time, just a handful of years ago, WWE had the WWE, World Heavyweight, IC, US, World Tag Team, WWE Tag Team, Women's & Divas Championships all active. Hardly a week would go by without someone starting a thread or posting that WWE had too many championships. Now that they're back down to 5, some think they don't have enough? At one time, WWE was too heavily saturated with titles, in my opinion, but I think they have a good mix right now. One main event, two mid-cards, a tag team and women's championship is a well balanced number of titles.

Jim Crockett Promotions (later WCW), NWA Tri-State/Mid-South, WCCW, CWA, Georgia Championship Wrestling, Championship Wrestling from Florida, Central States Wrestling, Stampede Wrestling, Maple Leaf Wrestling, New Japan, All Japan, etc. all either had or currently have 2 or more mid-card championships. If it's good enough for many of the all time greats, should be good enough for WWE.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The United States Title
The United States Title almost seems to be the current version of the European Title. That's not a knock on Ambrose, or the people who have held it. But really, it seems to me like the US Title is treated a lot differently than the Intercontinental Title. In the WWE, the US Title hasn't been held in amazing light, even though it's roots were steeped in tradition.

When the belt originated, Harley Race was the original US Champ. Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Roddy Piper, Wahoo McDaniel, Sgt. Slaughter, Tully Blanchard, Magnum T.A., Lex Luger, Dusty Rhodes, Michael Hayes, Sting, Rick Rude, Stunning Steve Austin, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Jeff Jarrett, Curt Hennig, DDP, Goldberg, Bret Hart, Scott Hall all held the title when it was "important".

Beginning in the mid 90s, the US title's "importance" really became highly debatable. In my opinion, the last great US champ of the Mid-Atlantic/WCW era was Steve Austin. Austin held it for 240 days before dropping it in August 1994. After that, prestige started to go downhill quickly with hot potato reigns and lackluster champs like Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Konnan, Steve McMichael and many others. By the time DDP, Goldberg, Bret Hart & Hall got the title, it was pretty much worthless.

Since the WWE came into possession of it, Booker T, Kurt Angle, Edge, Cena, Eddie were all champions in the early part of the ownership. It got off to a great start. And even then, some decent names of wrestling have held the title, including current champion Dean Ambrose. But the title just isn't booked to have any sort of importance. It's clearly the number three title, based on how it's been relegated to pre-shows.

I don't like having two "primary" mid card titles (in theory anyways), and if there is a need for a number three, it needs to be a clear cut number three. Much like the TV Title in WCW, there was no doubt that it was the third most important singles title.

The Intercontinental Title
Pat Patterson, Don Muraco, Pedro Morales, Tito Santana, Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior, Honky Tonk Man, Kerry Von Erich, British Bulldog, HBK, Nash, Goldust, HHH, The Rock, Owen Hart, Jericho, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Christian, Regal, RVD, Orton, Umaga, Punk, JBL, Mysterio, Michaels... And that's not to mention names like Benoit, Austin, Steamboat, Jarrett, Perfect, Hart, Piper and Rude and so many others who also held the US Title.

The Intercontinental title used to be a huge aspiration. Guys like Perfect held that title and gave it a ton of prestige. And while he never became the WWE Champion, the belt was clearly a sign of a guy who was ready to take the next step if they had a good run. Shawn Michaels held that title before he became Mr. WrestleMania, HHH and the Rock held it before they went on their runs. That title was seen as the "trial" run for future world champions. It was a big deal. It's not so much lately.

While I agree the IC title in't what it was, let's also not exaggerate things a bit. Guys like Muraco, Santana, Von Erich, Goldust Umaga, Bulldog, Valentine, HTM and others were champs but...c'mon, they weren't exactly great champs. Just because a wrestler was IC champ back during the golden age of the 80s doesn't automatically mean that they were fantastic wrestlers who had runs head & shoulders above those of modern guys. Getting the IC title may have been seen by some as a "trial" run for future World Champions, but that was never a guarantee. Patterson, Santana, Valentine, Ken Patera, HTM, Marty Jannetty, The Godfather, Ahmed Johnson, Marc Mero, etc. were guys who were NEVER gonna be World Champion. Sometimes, a mid-card title is exactly just that: a mid-card title that's not going to lead to a higher level.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I was against the World title unification and I'm against this one too. WWE is eventually going to bring back the World title anyway. You'll see. They've done it before and they'll do it again. It's history repeating itself.

They have the Dudleys merge the WWF and WCW tag titles.
Then they have Jericho merge the WWF and World titles.
Then they have Edge merge the IC and US titles.

And what happened?

They brought back a new 2nd pair of tag titles.
Then they brought back the US title.
Then they brought back the World title.

Then Triple H merged the World title with the Intercontinental one. And they got cold feet and brought it back a month later.

They already merged the tag titles and now they went ahead with the World titles too. They might do what you said, but they'll get cold feet on ALL OF IT later in the year.

 

[sjr1993]

Why the need for the current incarnation of either the IC or US title.

I would retire both and replace with a RAW and SMACKDOWN belt. Then it opens up new storylines for ppv's like Survivor series. However is champ at that time builds their teams and you bring back raw vs smackdown which if smackdown is going live may signal a brand split and brand war.

then you could introduce a similar concept to the xdivision title on TNA where it can be cashed in for the world title shot.

This would mean greater interweaving storylines could be made. And could throw at some great matches.

You could then do away with money in the bank briefcases...never been a fan of them...although some of the action in them is great...so the briefcase could be replaced with the belts as they essentially serve the same purpose.

Some (maybe all) might be thinking what is the guy chatting. But just my idea at a way things could be freshened up with the midcard titles

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I've got to echo Comrade_Mario above: Until they figure out how to create interesting storylines for their wrestlers that do not involve chasing a title, they're going to need both the IC and US titles. When a wrestler in the WWE can have a career a la Jake Roberts, i.e. always be a fan favorite, always be in a relevant, high profile feud, but never really challenge for a title (because he didn't have to), THEN it'll be feasible for them to unite the two titles.

I just wish for the sake of consistency, and some sort of kayfabe, they would pretend that there was a hierarchy to these titles. I guess the only way to do that right now is to depend on the lineage of the belts and the people who've held them in the past. Still it's kind of weak sauce.

As it stands, I can't complain about Big E. Langston and Dean Ambrose holding the belts...they've got the right guys with the straps. However, in Ambrose's case, someone should be feuding with him directly. Instead, he's still taking on feuds that either involve the tag team titles, or CM Punk. The problem with the latter is that Ambrose is the one doing the chasing. Punk, on the other hand, appears like he could give a shit about Ambrose's US title. To me, that's wrong...that's devaluing the title, and treating it like it's just a prop. Pretend at least that Punk wants to take the title because it'll put him back in line for a World Title shot. Or that taking the title will hurt Ambrose. Instead, it's a forgotten trinket.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Keeping the US Title would make sense in that capacity. But there would have to be a clear distinction between the Intercontinental Title and the US Title. And to me, keeping the US Title as the #3 is a bit disrespectful to people like Harley Race and Ric Flair, and even Lex Luger, who held that belt with pride. To put it in line with the European Title as far as importance goes is kind of a slap in the face.

That wouldn't be as big of a slap to the face as some of the last few reigns were. Santino Marella and R-Truth come to mind immediately. Jack Swagger or Kofi Kingston winning it recently and doing absolutely nothing with it. Then there's the anticlimactic afwul ending to Cesaro's reign. The US title was inherited from WCW while the Intercontinental Championship has been with the WWE since the 1970's, so it makes sense for Vince to want to make the title that was always his be the #2 title over the US Championship. The US Championship will receive more attention now that the upper midcarders are going after the Intercontinental Championship.

I'd much rather they brought back the European Title, or created a new Television Title than lower the prestige of the US Title. In a unification sense, at least the US Title would in some way, shape or form live on in the manner that it was once regarded.

Bringing back the European Championship would be pointless as it would be cared about less and treated worse than the US Championship is. The idea of bringing in a Television Championship is 100% awful. I guarantee you that NOBODY would give a damn about that belt. They need to leave the titles alone at this point. The title tiers are much clearer without the World Heavyweight Championship, and just because the US Championship is likely to fall into the third tier as opposed to the secondary or primary is not necessarily a bad thing. It's better than having the entire midcard going after two belts. Give it time. Both of the midcard titles should see more attention now and I predict that some importance will be restored. A unification is not necessary with the roster the way it is now.

 

[Trail_Blazin]

I mean, to each their own as far as the titles go. But, does anyone care about the US Title... at all? Has anyone cared about it? The US Title has been placed on the backburner of importance for quite some time. And it's not necessarily the people that are holding it, especially with the Cesaro, Kofi, Ambrose reigns. Kofi's reign was short, but he's a capable champion. The problem has been how the title is booked.

Maybe it really is just me, and if it is, I respect that... But I believe in tradition, with virtually everything I partake in. I'm a big football guy, I believe in bands playing at college games, individual traditions of each college, and tradition in general, even in the NFL. Tradition is important to me. The US Title's tradition, regardless of what company it originated in is important to me.

I hate seeing titles that had meaning get beaten down. And yes, that includes the way the IC Title has been treated.

Feedback nailed it though. These mergers never really last long. And merging them would likely result in a split again in the not to distant future.

 

[Ubermensch]

I can see having two midcard belts. It depends on how you want to run the belts based off roster size though. The recent problem that was coming up was the two heavyweight belts weren't viewed equally in my opinion. With the World Heavyweight belt being defended much earlier on Raw than the WWE it clearly was seconded. Truth be told if they do keep bringing back it always will be. Despite it looking way better, it's not Vince's belt and it will never be THE belt.

Wind the clock back when to the 90's. The TV title worked soso for WCW because it had 3 hours of programming. It also had a no weight class gimmic, and but was clearly seconded by the US title and on par in terms of who held the belt with the Cruiserweight Championship.

Cruiser and Flyweight belts are no longer viable since little guys are winning the heavyweight championship.

The better midcard belt was the European Championship. Since Shawn Michaels held it early on it was legitimatized. Also the Rock and HHH feud involved both those belts and title for title matches.

I would rather see one midcard, one heavyweight, and a hardcore belt brought back versus another midcard belt though.

 

[Trail_Blazin]

The hardcore title is a belt I actually don't miss at all. It was so rag tag. The concept of a TV Title could be extended to being a, "I'll defend it any way you want" kind of title (Dagger, I hear you on the TV title thing, so you could make it a different named belt). But this would allow guys to showcase all of their talents.

 

[HellBoundPower]

At first I thought that I wanted the Titles to be unified, but after thinking about it and reading through this thread, I think they should just keep it the way it is. The Intercontinental Title can be number 2, and the US Title can be number 3. It's similar to how it was during the early Attitude Era with the US Title taking the place of the European Title. Honestly I think the WWE could handle it a little better than they did with the European Title, given the US Title lineage and former prestige. Just because it's number 3 doesn't mean that it can't be put on the line in great matches with worthy opponents. I think the people that think the US Title being number 3 as being a smack in the face are delusional and not caught up with the times. In this day and age the Titles are more like props to add a little spice to storylines. People need to get right with that, or they're going to be disappointed time and time again.

 

[DarksideEric]

Quick answer - NO. WWE doesn't have enough championships as is. There's nothing for most of the roster to fight for. I'm against title unification and always will be. I feel WWE should have a minimum of 7 or 8 championships.

...seven or eight titles, are you serious?

Let's go down the line of possible over saturated that would be.

WWE Title
World Title
US Title
IC Title
Tag Team
Women's

Then you want to add what... a cruiserweight title again? A hardcore title again?

We're already currently at five (due to the WWE/World unification), there's little need to reintroduce a Cruiserweight/Hardcore back into the mix, especially since it probably will fall short.