*MERGED* Randy Orton Face Turn Discussion

[Schizophrenic]

Randy is one of those special guys that he could do and has done EVERYTHING that a mega heel should do. He attacked people's family, he turned on his own team mates, he hates the fans, and brutalizes the faces. Yet the fans still cheer him on as if he was the biggest babyface of them all. Like others have said, Steve Austin pops to mind when that is brought up. If a face turn for Randyinevitable? Possibly but I think Randy is a good enough heel to stay that way as long as he wants to. They need to find someone that's so over and have Randy attack him simply "because he can". I am a bit biased as I feel Randyis at his best as a heel, although I prefer the cocky Evolution Randy Orton to the Viper.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Well, he's a face now isn't he? Especially when he said "I respect Triple HHH" what he said after those words don't mean shit hole. It solidified him as a heel. King even made reference to that in the commentary in the match between Triple H and Orton. Now when it comes to should he be a face or a heel. I think that Orton's character is wonderful. (I'm never comparing it with Stone Cold because he was a face like all face he acknowledged the fans and no matter what you do after that you're pretty much a face.) I think Orton is great but he's confined in his own character as a heel. You see his heel character is obsessed with the championship and wants to get it at any cost which puts him in a sticky situation when he's not in a championship circle. As a face though it's interesting because he adds a little cocky persona as we saw last night. So weather he should be a face or a heel is simply a characteristic change away. Not too much of a change but only a slight bit.

 

[Lionshare]

yeah, orton is fine like it is, there's no need to make a face turn too fast, hes getting bigger pops every week without being pushed in our throats. if the bookers keep this up we could get another cool face who doesnt give a crap about authorities like SCSA.

i just hope they dont mess him up like the last time with evolution by turning him too fast.

 

[owen8472]

orton will become a face his run as a heel has been to long longest ever heel the million dollor man they dont want to break that he will be a face for sure in the next few weeks to months

 

[Pulsar]

Randy doesn't need to go full-on babyface to be over with the fans. The fact is, I think a full face turn would backfire. The fans love him, but they love him BECAUSE he is The Viper, not in spite of it. Keep him intense, keep him brutal, keep him a tweener.

 

[onegoodfella]

Randy Orton should never turn face Ever!!! But the fans love the Viper because he can hit u with the RKO out of nowhere and he just has the charisma to be one of the greatest champions of all time NUFF said

 

[newrose]

yeah, orton is fine like it is, there's no need to make a face turn too fast, hes getting bigger pops every week without being pushed in our throats. if the bookers keep this up we could get another cool face who doesnt give a crap about authorities like SCSA.

i just hope they dont mess him up like the last time with evolution by turning him too fast.

I agree 100% with this. His character really doesnt need to be changed. The viper image is just really cool. Yeah he is the cool heel and thats why the fans are starting to love him. Would hate a full on face turn. If WWE do this right then this could be huge. Obviously there will never be another Austin, but Orton has the chance to be a very similar character which just makes the thought of it awesome. I'm praying they get this right. However, he may just remain a heel, which is no bad thing but I really want him to be a bad ass face.

 

[Thomasrko]

Alot of people have been wondering is Randy Orton a heel or face. I'm convinced he's a face, he's getting cheered almost as much as lould as John Cena(without the you cant wrestle chant). Last week he teamed with HHH and went against Sheamus and Legacy. HHH and Orton did ok as a team. Now at Wrestlemainia he's gonna be in a triple threat match against Legacy. You know Orton's gonna be cheered in that one too. Also Orton said this about HHH "I don't like HHH, but I respect him as a man" the words of a face.
Do you think Orton is a face?
Share your thoughts.

 

[The Champ]

Yeah, he's pretty much a face now. Which I'm excited about because I think it was long overdue, listening to the crowd reactions in some cities you could tell that people have wanted to cheer the guy for a long time now. The reason his last face run didn't last long was because they didn't maintain his heel character well enough, and I'm hoping that they're able to remedy that problem this time around. It seems like they're off to a good start as he still has his same mannerisms and whatnot from his most recent heel run as "The Viper." I do think, though, that he will be moving to SmackDown in the draft because keeping him and Triple H on the same show as faces might not really work considering everything that happened last year. Then again, it's wrestling, and much stranger things have happened. But Orton can really use the change of scenery and some fresh feuds with the likes of Jericho and Punk. Maybe even a face vs. face feud against Edge.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines when I saw the tag match with Triple H on RAW this week... Hell, when Orton got tagged in and went rampant on everyone, I felt he got louder pops than HHH throughout the match, it was pretty insane... So I'd definitely say that Randy Orton is on his way to facedom, especially considering they put him in a match with his former Legacy mates Rhodes and Dibiase at WM26... since both Cody and Ted are definitely more clear-cut heels right now, Randy Orton will inevitably end up being the face in this match (actually, I think it would do wonders for his face-status if he DIDN'T win at WM)... so the path is there for him.

What I like about Orton right now, though, is that he is a face despite actually being a heel. I mean, he's definitely one of the darkest, meanest characters on the WWE roster right now, save only for Batista, who has played his monster heel role to a "T" recently as well. All the other heels are pretty much the classic cheater heels the way Chris Jericho is portraying his character as an example. Orton, however, has been handling a character that seems on the brink of insanity everytime he gets into the ring, and despite (or maybe because of?) that, he's now getting louder pops than pretty much everyone else - and that, I have to give to Orton, is quite an accomplishment. I actually do consider him, and not John Cena, to be WWE's most valuable asset right now. True, Cena may have been selling tons more merchandise for what seems forever, but in terms of popularity, I get the feeling that Orton will soon outshine Cena, if this trend continues.

I think Orton is now in the classic Stone Cold role that people have been predicting for him for quite a long time anyway - he does his own thing, doesn't take an BS from anybody, kicks a**es left and right, and still gets cheered - good job I'd say, especially in this day and age.

Plus, even if it sounds terribly "marky" - I seriously think that his "Preying Viper" setup for the RKO is the single best finisher poise we've seen in a long time (maybe ever), and definitely ranks at the very top with the "I'm-gonna-hit-my-finisher-on-you-in-2-seconds-son" poses of guys like The Rock, Kurt Angle or HBK's Tuning Up The Band... it was really brilliant he cameup with that setup for the RKO; really no other finisher setup today conveys that same sense of building tension. Kudos to Randy Orton again.

In any case, I'm really curious about how his match with Legacy plays out (I'd personally like to see Orton valiantly fight off both DiBiase and Rhodes in a more or less handicap situation for most of the match, but ultimately lose to (most likely) DiBiase - that way a) Randy would come off looking like a million bucks, b) gain huge "face" momentum and c) it would also not make DiBiase and Rhodes look bad if they lost in what is basically a handicap situation against one guy, and anyone pinning Randy Orton at Wrestlemania will definitely give them quite a rub).

 

[The Con Volt]

Oh of course he's a face now. If they hadn't put him against Kofi for a couple months, then he would've been getting these cheers since hell in a cell. People for some reason either started liking that look in his eyes, or they just couldn't stand hating him anymore. And thank GOD it's happening too. When Orton turned face after breaking from evolution, I loved it. And the best part about this whole turn that the fans have forced out of McMahon, is that Orton hasn't hardly changed his character at all. That's a very rare thing.

 

[quagmire]

I just hope if Orton does become a face, he maintains his current attitude and not the usual mean heel becomes Mr. Goody two shoes like they did with MVP.

Orton needs to maintain his psychotic personality like Eddie kept his lying, cheating, and stealing persona when he went from heel to face( where he did the same tricks when he was a heel).

 

[boozinjedi]

Yes,I do agree..BUT I do so cautiously...They could throw us a swerve at WrestleMania,I wouldn't put it past Vince!!
I can see & hear the "Austin Effect" happening to Orton,he hasn't changed.BUT the crowds are getting behind him.
He needs to stay a bit psychotic...Austin did.....He would stun anybody he wanted and the crowd loved him for it.

I'm just afraid that we are being set up for a swerve here folks!!

 

[smfiscus1]

He's a tweener. It appears as though he's a face but if the opportunity presents itself, do doubt about it, he'll take advantage of someone or something just like a heel.

 

[drobs85]

He's a tweener. It appears as though he's a face but if the opportunity presents itself, do doubt about it, he'll take advantage of someone or something just like a heel.

Totally agree, Ortons a tweener. He may get cheered, but like already mentioned if a situation comes up where he can win the title, or destroy anyone he wants he will take full advantage whether that persons a face of heel or whether the crowd cheers or boos. That's not a full face.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

As of this moment, Orton is not a face. He's somewhere between a heel and a tweener, who get's a face pop (confusing, I know). What I mean is he is doing heelish things, but the things he does now are not as bad as the things he did as heel. But he is getting a face pop from the crowd, even when he does something bad. I don't think the WWE knows what he is right now...and that's a good thing, IMO. It livens things up. It gives Raw some variety. With Orton, it's not so cut and dry as to who is the "face" and who is the "heel."

His "tweener" status is different from Austins in few ways. They are totally different characters. Austin was your common "every-man" who a lot of us looked up to (even though he wasn't the best role model). He busted his ass for everything he had, and wasn't going to take shit from anyone. Orton, on the other hand, if more of a "rich kid" type. We all know he is a Legacy in this business, but he is talented enough for it not to matter. He has already surpassed his father, by leaps and bounds.

Austin was mean, but he wasn't evil. Orton has that evil look about him. Just by watching him stare down another guy, you can tell he has evil, sadistic intentions. Austin was more like the kind of guy that would just whip your ass if you got in his way.

Where I find these two to be similiar really has nothing to do with how they interact with the crowd. Orton is getting over in the same way Austin did; by MAKING the crowd respect him. People aren't necessarily cheering him because they like everything he does. They are cheering him because he is that damn good (sorry, HHH). I also think the face pops he is getting are coming from the older crowd, 15 years of age and up. The kids are going to hate him because he doesn't "eat his vitamins and say his prayers," thats a given. But the older crowd loves the guy because they respect him, and I see his fanbase only getting bigger as the fans grow older.

The only worry I have right now is that the WWE is going to PG-era him. What I mean by that is they are going to see $$$ signs. They might not want to realize that he is getting over BECAUSE he isn't so PG-rated. If they try and turn him into a t-shirt-selling machine, they will ruin his character. The guy is not built to be a full-blow face character. He's not very likable as a human being. He looks mean, self-centered, and arrogant. I just really hope they do not try and change his character into the stereotypical "good guy." That would kill every bit of momentum he has, at least IMO.

 

[JackGallow]

Well the way i see Orton going is more or less the same route Austin went. I see Orton as this generations anti-hero. Somebody who is technically a face but not by the standard normally set by the wrestling world because he doesnt exactly do face things. Austin had the same stigma behind him as many people on here mention he would just stun anybody and the crowd cheered, Austin never changed, he fought authority and the fans loved him for it. I feel if Orton continues to use the same kind of character he will have that same Austin feel to him, he will be a face but not change his actions, He will continue to be psychotic and unstable however there will no longer be a barrage of boo's. The fans have just decided that that character is something they want to get behind and although i see orton using slightly more face tendences i see teh same gimmick continuing and his popularity just steadily rising.

 

[Dum Dum Dudley]

As of this moment, Orton is not a face. He's somewhere between a heel and a tweener, who get's a face pop (confusing, I know). What I mean is he is doing heelish things, but the things he does now are not as bad as the things he did as heel. But he is getting a face pop from the crowd, even when he does something bad. I don't think the WWE knows what he is right now...and that's a good thing, IMO. It livens things up. It gives Raw some variety. With Orton, it's not so cut and dry as to who is the "face" and who is the "heel."

I think you've pretty much summed him up as good as anyone can. Orton is not a face as the whole Legacy makes it seem Orton has abused DiBiase/Rhodes and treat them like shit for example, the 'match' Orton had with DiBiase before Christmas where he dared him to hit him. The crowd was going nuts for Ted to nail him but he didn't. Also, the way Legacy are doing heelish things such as double teaming him make it seem like we should feel sorry for him so it rules out being a complete heel. This would suggest he was a tweener but the way he said he respected HHH made me think he is different than tweeners like Kane who just take anyone out regardless.

I think the way the Legacy angle is going, the WWE have noticed the pops he gets so are trying to see if a face turn would work. The pop he got when he got the hot tag off HHH on Monday was incredible and when he was thrashing around waiting to hit the RKO, the place was very loud and quite electric. However, i think the WWE missed the boat on this one. A singles match between DiBiase and Orton would have clearly presented Orton as the heelish mentor and DiBiase the face student but the inclusion of Rhodes and the non-implosion of Rhodes/DiBiase blurs the lines. Rhodes and DiBiase are working together well which suggests they are the heels as it makes the triple threat seem a 2-1 handicap match.

 

[The Con Volt]

Austin was mean, but he wasn't evil. Orton has that evil look about him. Just by watching him stare down another guy, you can tell he has evil, sadistic intentions. Austin was more like the kind of guy that would just whip your ass if you got in his way.

My thoughts exactly. I think as soon as Orton gets another full on mic segment, he will say the things that made him a heel. The whole " You WILL respect me." Routine. It's just his character. We will never see the Orton we saw before he had that "look" of the viper again. He will remain the same old Randy Orton character we saw handcuff HHH while he kissed his wife for the rest of his career, but it will be interesting to see if the crowd actually starts to pop for that stuff. The reason Orton is getting a face pop is because legacy has made a point of being the heels in this feud. It's because he is the defender that he is getting cheered. Feasibly, WWE could throw him into a feud with a more clear face at any time, and he would probably go back to being a clear cut heel. Just the combination of him being the defender and not getting any mic time is what makes the fans cheer him at this point in time.

 

[dionlyone18]

Well first let me say..orton is my fav wrestler of this era....hbk of all time..but i digress... anyway..i believe as many have said..that orton is in that tweener..i call it the semi-austin phase...hes not the all american good boy like cena and kingston,but he gets the huge pops..i think the reason is..people whp are tired of the pg era and goody goods like the closet thing to the atitude era, like orton, give it time batista will get those hugs pops too....orton is by far the smartest charecter in the wwe right now..he hasnt changed..he teamed with hhh on monday but when they won he didnt shake his hand..even though they got attacked after hhh made the save...orton just slid out of the ring..he didnt shake his hand or give him his props..he still keeps those heelish charecteristics..and people love that...outlaw/evil/do wahtever it takes type of guy...lets face it when mysterio,cena,kingston,morrison,r-truth and others come out, you manily hear the kids cheering..not to take anything away from them..but when orton the miz,jericho punk come out they get these huge pop but the younger generation boo them.i mean orton is one of the best tweeners..austin of course is the best..taker i consider him the ultimate tweener..cause he goes after everybody.....but anyway orton is at the top of his game..def hof'er...hes keeping it smart by not letting his intentions known..i like amny will be watching wrestlemania tommrrow to see the outcome of orton/legacy saga

 

[Arkham Noir]

Orton is simply Orton.

What makes him such a stand out character to me is that he does what his charcater would do in situations, not what a good guy or a bad guy would do. This is one of the reason I think faces suck so much more than heels these days. They worry about simply doing "the right thing" and not having a charcter to go with it. When Orton is place in a situation you have no idea how he will react. There was no clear cut idea as to what would happen when Orton would team with The Game. A face would simply "team up to stop the meanies" and a heel would just end up turning on Hunter, but Orton leaves a certain degree of intrigue.

We need more characters like this

 

[Mr. Steve]

I don't want to say he's being a face. He was already receiving his face pops for a good while, so now was a good time to pull the trigger and...well, NOT make him a heel is the correct term. Not to go off-topic, but I need to say this to prove my point: Legacy NEEDED to implode. Right now, the proper way to do that was...for Orton to NOT be a heel.

Why do I say "NOT heel" rather than saying "he's a face." Simple: He CAN'T be a face. His character is too embedded in the grey zone for him to go the face route. Like others have posted before me, He's getting the Austin treatment. For me is that: HE'S the one
that's doing the Austin treatment. His character after this, hopefully, will just stay in the tweener zone. The people can have someone to give face pops for, Orton gives a whole layer to this gimmick(not being evil, not being good), and hopefully, he benefits from this by not changing much of the character, yet retain what got him in the main event scene.

But so far, I'm loving how the feud is developing, and hopefully, it leads to something good after WM.

 

[Greenlight13]

I think he's an Eddie Guerrero face. He's going to continue to act like a heel, frowning, not really caring about the fans, not ashamed to cheat or run away, but no matter what he does the fans just like him and these reactions can't be ignored.

I see no reason why he can't continue to be booked as he is in programs against heels and faces alike. Granted, it kind of kills a babyface if Orton is cheered as much or more than them, but steps can be taken to get around this. They'll never completely get rid of the face pops, but there are certain actions that will make them die down a little.

The reason I'm pushing for this acting like a heel thing is because there is no denying that he made a god-awful face. He knew it, we know it, the world knows it. He is much more suited to being an angry prick (for light of a better term), engaging his opponents in mental terrorism before striking the death blow that is the holiest of moves: the RKO. That move is perfect for him because it can be hit out of nowhere like the Sweet Chin Music, and there's no debating that it will put someone down.... like the Sweet Chin Music. The speed with which he can hit it makes it perfect for a heel because the face can be on the verge of beating him and then they just make one miss-step, he strikes and it's over. You can't argue with his win, because it's clean, but you get that "____ was unlucky" factor that sets up immediate rematches and doesn't kill any momentum the face may have. It's also wonderful for sneak attacks and run-ins, something I believe he is the best in the business at. Oh and what's his second finisher? A running kick to the head. Equally devastating, equally fast. Need I say more?

Orton is the Viper. As cool as the Legend Killer gimmick was, as much of a cool heel as he was, the Viper is who he is. His best work has been in the last two years in my opinion, particularly his masterful feud with Triple H (with an awful blow-off). He slithers away, he strikes without warning, he runs, hides, cheats and mocks.

This is the character that has made him the most desired wrestler in the industry (the only guy Russo would want allegedly) and it just doesn't work if he's a face. Fans are at full liberty to cheer and boo whoever they want when they buy a ticket, and a lot of the time the matches, stories and characters must bow to how the fans are reacting, but there instances where a booking committee has to force-feed things to the audience for the sake of artistic integrity. They want Orton to be a heel, Orton wants to be a heel, they've invested years into making him one of the absolute best heels going, and fans digging his work shouldn't get in the way of that, because if he starts coming out and cutting face promos and having fun it will destroy everything they have worked for.

At the end of the day, the really, really good bad guys end up appearing cooler than the good guys. Darth Vader is the absolute man in the Star Wars franchise, and sure he came good in the end, but he was Darth Vader in name only by that point. Even if the large sections of the crowd like Orton more than the face he is feuding with, he has to remain acting like a heel, and his storylines need to end with him being vanquished by his rival in order to maintain the status quo of wrestling.

 

[619girl4life]

well i dont think randy will ever be a face but he isnt really a heel either...that is what i love about him...he dont worry about doing the right thing he just beats people up if u get in his way...like a few people said already he is like stone cold steve austin all over again because they both do what they gotta do to win...and they still get cheers...i think wwe should have more characters like this in the wwe...i thing i hate about faces is that they just want to please the audience and not do anything bad....but what they probly dont realize is that the audience wants to see them do something bad...a HUGE example of this would be john cena...all he wants to do is make the kids in the crowd happy...he has good mic skills if he would just use them right! back in the old days when he would rap he was pretty awesome! another example would be rey mysterio...dont get me wrong i absolutly love him but he only cares about doing everything right..i cant remember the last time i saw him cheat to win! but rey is still a pretty good athlete as well as a wrestler.....as far as randy orton goes on being a face i think he is in between a face and a heel...some people love him and some people hate him....i just happen to be one of those people that love him because of his personality...!

 

[Chargersfan1901]

Randys character just pretty much does what needs to be done, whether the fans approve of it or not. As all the previous posters said, he's a Austin/Eddie like character. Heel actions but the fans love him. I do aswell ;D