Maybe the best heel isn't Jericho, Orton, or Edge...?

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

When the debate about who the best heel in the business today is going, three men are discussed: Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, and Edge. While all three of those men are excellent heels, some of the greatest we may have ever seen, none of them are the best. The best heel today is none other than John "Bradshaw" Layfield.

What?! You're crazy, 48.7. You've officially lost it.

No, no I haven't. Aside from my talking to myself, I am perfectly sane. Here me out.

I have a multitude of reasons for saying what I did. I'll start by saying first, J.B.L. is utterly boring and I hate him. I hate seeing him on my screen and I always want him to go away. The moment his music hits, a let out a long groan, as I'm sure many of you also do. Now, you're thinking, "48.7, you just hit the nail on the head. He's boring and everyone hates him. Edge, Orton, and Jericho are all enjoyable." Exactly my point!

During his promos, I feel the need to smack him. He drones on and on about how he is the a wrestling god and how he deserves this and that and how he will attain said something and how he has more money than us and so on and so forth. That's textbook heel stuff, right there. He says things that provoke us. He makes us angry, thus drawing massive heat.

People complain all the time about J.B.L.'s entrance. It's long, boring, and has annoying music. People suggest that he change it and walk faster. Why? Is not a heel's job to piss you off and make you hate him? Then why would Bradshaw want to change the very thing that makes us hate him the instant he shows up every night? I know for a fact that no one hates Orton's, Edge's, or Jericho's entrance. In fact, I look forward to and enjoy each of their's every night.

J.B.L. is boring in the ring. His moveset is slow and he wrestles a boring style. He is just a sloppy brawler! Well, yeah.. So? Are heels supposed to work a fast paced, exciting style? I mean, they could. Jericho does pretty well at it, but he's also very small. It's hard to get over when you're exciting in the ring. How is it a bad thing that J.B.L. does everything thing in the ring that we hate? He's doing his job perfectly by wrestling the way he does. I'm not sure if he's just a poor wrester, or if it's intentional. Either way, it's effective.

John Layfield is a large, sluggish, out of shape tub of goo. That's one of the things that people complain most about. He's fat, 48.7! So what? He's a bully that just pounds you into the ground. Why does he need to be 6'5 and 260 pounds of chisled muscle? He doesn't. He has the look of a big, goofy, rich guy that could beat the living hell out of you. It works in his favor, I think.

People also hate his finisher. While it has almost nothing to do with why he is a great heel, I'd like to set this straight. J.B.L. makes the clothesline look like it hurts. Other guys just kind of hit it. J.B.L. puts a ton of force behind it. While it's just an average move, so is Edge's spear and the Walls is just a Boston Crab.

Finally, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, and Edge all get chanted for and cheered by a small percentage of fans at every event. Yes, they are the rebellious smarks. Still, they aren't doing their job right if people cheer for them. You never hear J.B.L. chants.

J.B.L. is the greatest heel in the business.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I disagree.

Everyone hates JBL... Literally.

Edge, Orton, Jericho - Yeah we hate them too but it's really really different.

A heel is not supposed to piss people off to the point of turning the TV off or leaving the room (which i'm sure im not alone in doing this when JBL is on).

A heel is supposed to be a bad guy that you want to keep watching and keep listening too because... well you just have to! That's what Orton, Jericho and Edge do well, they piss us off but at the same time keep us watching.

JBL pissess us off because he's terrible to watch and listen to and i know alot of us turn the tv off or fast forward when he is on.

Ultimatley, yeah i guess he gets us to not like him, but it's through his true personality that makes us hate him, not his acting ability as it is with Jericho etc.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I disagree.

Everyone hates JBL... Literally.

Edge, Orton, Jericho - Yeah we hate them too but it's really really different.

A heel is not supposed to piss people off to the point of turning the TV off or leaving the room (which i'm sure im not alone in doing this when JBL is on).

A heel is supposed to be a bad guy that you want to keep watching and keep listening too because... well you just have to! That's what Orton, Jericho and Edge do well, they piss us off but at the same time keep us watching.

JBL pissess us off because he's terrible to watch and listen to and i know alot of us turn the tv off or fast forward when he is on.

Ultimatley, yeah i guess he gets us to not like him, but it's through his true personality that makes us hate him, not his acting ability as it is with Jericho etc.

That's pretty extreme. I'm not sure that there are actually many that turn the T.V. off when he's on screen. While you may be telling the truth, I think that was a stretch.

I'm captivated by his promos, actually. I enjoy listening to him. Whilst I hate what he says, he speaks well and I want to hear what he says. Don't tell me that you weren't listening intently last Monday when he started talking about facing The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

That's pretty extreme. I'm not sure that there are actually many that turn the T.V. off when he's on screen. While you may be telling the truth, I think that was a stretch.

I'm captivated by his promos, actually. I enjoy listening to him. Whilst I hate what he says, he speaks well and I want to hear what he says. Don't tell me that you weren't listening intently last Monday when he started talking about facing The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

Sorry, i didnt mean i turn it off but i do leave to get a drink or fast forward. I have heard though people on this forum say they turn it off. Maybe they are being a bit over the top though, i get what ya mean but there are alot of people that do fast forward or treat it like an add break, they guy is just boring in my opinion. A heel isnt supposed to be boring, he's meant to keep you stuck to the TV even though you don't like what he's saying or doning.


Anyways, i did watch that coz i heard he was going to be challenging the Dead Man so yeah, i watched this time. It's funny you mentioned that he speaks well. He stuffed his lines up at least twice, and obviously! I did listen intently but that was only after HBK came out because i want him to take the Undertaker on at WM25.

I wouldnt clasify myself as a JBL hater but i definatley think it is a stretch to say he is a better heel than Jericho, Orton and Edge.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

You bring up a valid point. Heels are necessarily supposed to be boring. They're supposed to draw heat. J.B.L. draws immense heat. "Well, so what? He's still boring!" He's obviously not that boring if people care about him enough to give him a top reaction. Truly boring wrestlers, such as Paul Birchill (is he still employed?) and Mark Henry, receive very little reaction.

I didn't catch much of his promo. I was watching a pretty bad stream. I live on the west coast, so R.A.W. is on later here. I didn't want to wait. He stuffed up, eh? That's unusual for him. Most everyone would agree that he is skilled with a microphone.

Edit: For MDPUNK.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

Yeah man, i agree about that.

That's what i was trying to get at. JBL is hated because he's boring and unexciting. Jericho, Orton and Edge are hated because they portray their promos and storylines extremely well, then they follow it up with sneaky wins (Edge) or a crazy fued with the owners (Orton) or taking on the legends (Jericho) and with good in ring wrestling.

JBL just doesnt cut it amongst these guys imo.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

That's a little.. scary.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

I wasn't alive when Macho turned on Hogan.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

What's wrong with hating heels? Nothing in the 'Heel Handbook' says, "Get them to hate you, but also get them to respect you." Your contempt for J.B.L. strengthens my argument. Vince doesn't give a damn that you don't respect J.B.L. He just wants for you to hate him. J.B.L. just wants you to hate him.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

That's a very good point. I once thought about posting a thread titled "Vickie Guerrero: Best Heel This Decade", but I didn't. It's totally slipped my mind tonight. You're right on everything, except the last statement. Handing out money would get anyone cheered.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Yeah man, i agree about that.

That's what i was trying to get at. JBL is hated because he's boring and unexciting. Jericho, Orton and Edge are hated because they portray their promos and storylines extremely well, then they follow it up with sneaky wins (Edge) or a crazy fued with the owners (Orton) or taking on the legends (Jericho) and with good in ring wrestling.

JBL just doesnt cut it amongst these guys imo.

How does J.B.L. not portray his promos and storylines well? He almost always is involved in some sort of real feud, which is more than you could say for a lot of top guys and he always delivers his promos well. Bradshaw just came out of a great feud with Michaels. Some hated it, but I don't see why. It was a feud where the heel bullies around the most loved face, playing off of real troubles outside the wrestling world. It was perfect.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

You bring up a valid point. Heels are necessarily supposed to be boring. They're supposed to draw heat. J.B.L. draws immense heat. "Well, so what? He's still boring!" He's obviously not that boring if people care about him enough to give him a top reaction. Truly boring wrestlers, such as Paul Birchill (is he still employed?) and Mark Henry, receive very little reaction.

I didn't catch much of his promo. I was watching a pretty bad stream. I live on the west coast, so R.A.W. is on later here. I didn't want to wait. He stuffed up, eh? That's unusual for him. Most everyone would agree that he is skilled with a microphone.

Edit: For MDPUNK.

Yeah i see what you mean about Henry and co being even more boring than JBL, I'll give ya that.

He's getting heel heat and wrestling with other main eventers and whatever else so he is doing his job well to a certain degree. I just dont see him up there with the other guys like the 3 we have been mentioning.

I personally see a good heel as someone you watch and are drawn into the promo/storyline even though you're hating what they're saying or doing. Like for example when Chris Jericho was fueding with Michaels he could draw so much heat whilst still keeping you watching where as JBL draws the heat but people just want him off the screen, Jericho kept you wanting to watch even though you hated him, does that make sense, sorry if it doesnt lol.

Yeah he stuffed up a few times in that promo but i mean if he was as shit as alot of people here seem to think i'm sure he'd be off air by now. I think JBL is doing his job as a heel pretty well, I just dont rate him anywhere near as high as Y2J, Orton and Edge.

 

[FromTheSouth]

That's a little.. scary.

Not literally, but in the heat of the moment.

I wasn't alive when Macho turned on Hogan.

I feel old now. I was young, and that made it better. I was so mad at Macho, and I watched every week hoping he'd lose. That is what an over heel does. He makes your spite so strong you watch. When JBL comes on, I take a shit.

What's wrong with hating heels? Nothing in the 'Heel Handbook' says, "Get them to hate you, but also get them to respect you." Your contempt for J.B.L. strengthens my argument. Vince doesn't give a damn that you don't respect J.B.L. He just wants for you to hate him. J.B.L. just wants you to hate him.

Like I said, hating them to the point that you aren't watching the ads associated with them is what's wrong. I think there is a certain portion of the audience that changes the channel, or goes to the bathroom, or makes a sammich during JBL's time.

That's a very good point.

Of course it is, I'm brilliant.

I once thought about posting a thread titled "Vickie Guerrero: Best Heel This Decade",

I would have beenthe co-sponsor on this.

but I didn't.

there's still time.

It's totally slipped my mind tonight. You're right on everything, except the last statement. Handing out money would get anyone cheered.

Vince still got his fair share of hate. I did love the "It's just a gimmick" posts on here. Of fucking course it was, and a damn fine one at that.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Not literally, but in the heat of the moment.

I know.

I feel old now. I was young, and that made it better. I was so mad at Macho, and I watched every week hoping he'd lose. That is what an over heel does. He makes your spite so strong you watch. When JBL comes on, I take a shit.

As long as you leave it on USA Network, no one cares. When J.B.L. and Michaels were feuding, did you honestly not watch? Is he so horrible that you didn't watch what has been one of the best feuds in recent memory? I'm sorry.

Like I said, hating them to the point that you aren't watching the ads associated with them is what's wrong. I think there is a certain portion of the audience that changes the channel, or goes to the bathroom, or makes a sammich during JBL's time.

A small portion.

Of course it is, I'm brilliant.

Seconded.

I would have beenthe co-sponsor on this.

Let's do it.

there's still time.

Tomorrow.

Vince still got his fair share of hate. I did love the "It's just a gimmick" posts on here. Of fucking course it was, and a damn fine one at that.

I didn't hate Vince for handing out a million dollars. I think people would be crazy to do so.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

How does J.B.L. not portray his promos and storylines well? He almost always is involved in some sort of real feud, which is more than you could say for a lot of top guys and he always delivers his promos well. Bradshaw just came out of a great feud with Michaels. Some hated it, but I don't see why. It was a feud where the heel bullies around the most loved face, playing off of real troubles outside the wrestling world. It was perfect.

Maybe it was the whole Orton story or Edge/Jeff Hardy thing but i really wasnt into the Michaels/JBL story. Mainly because i just didnt feel it like the Orton and Hardy ones. I admit, it may have just been overshadowed.

But you couldnt honestly say that he portrayed a better heel than Orton portraying a psycho kicking in the faces of his boss and his family. Or Jericho beating the shit out of Michaels and punching his wife in the face. Or Edge doing everything wrong to win.

Again, JBL is an alright heel but seriously, no where near the 3 we've mentioned.

 

[salomon1080s]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

I agree with you on this. VIckie Guerrero is deff the biggest heel in the business. when she is on the mic they need to turn up her levels because of how loud the booing is. no one is even close to gettin that much heat as she is

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

LOL you guys are trippers.

I actually started a Vicki biggest heel thread last week or the week before, no one seemed to post though

Honestly, JBL v Michaels.... Best fued in recent history?!? Now i think that is stretch.

Jericho v Michaels for one was shit loads better. Orton and McMahons is better. Edge and Undertaker. Just to name a few that were better in the past 12 months.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Maybe it was the whole Orton story or Edge/Jeff Hardy thing but i really wasnt into the Michaels/JBL story. Mainly because i just didnt feel it like the Orton and Hardy ones. I admit, it may have just been overshadowed.

What Edge/Jeff Hardy one? They hardly had a feud, if it could be called that. Edge's involvement was completely forgotten and overshadowed by Matt Hardy. Orton has had a good story. He's been booked very well.

But you couldnt honestly say that he portrayed a better heel than Orton portraying a psycho kicking in the faces of his boss and his family. Or Jericho beating the shit out of Michaels and punching his wife in the face. Or Edge doing everything wrong to win.

I'm not sure that there is anything more heelish than buying the most beloved wrestler in the company and forcing him to help you go over the babyface champion, lay down in the ring, and just making him look like a bitch every time he appeared on T.V. That is great stuff.

Again, JBL is an alright heel but seriously, no where near the 3 we've mentioned.

I didn't expect my opinion to be very popular. But, again, there is no standard that a heel has to meet. They are judged based on opinion, so there is no concrete way of saying who's right and who's wrong.

Having said that.. I'm right and you're wrong.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I agree with you on this. VIckie Guerrero is deff the biggest heel in the business. when she is on the mic they need to turn up her levels because of how loud the booing is. no one is even close to gettin that much heat as she is

The funny thing is, if she weren't so ugly and didn't have such a squeaky voice, she'd have no heat.

LOL you guys are trippers.

I actually started a Vicki biggest heel thread last week or the week before, no one seemed to post though

Honestly, JBL v Michaels.... Best fued in recent history?!? Now i think that is stretch.

Jericho v Michaels for one was shit loads better. Orton and McMahons is better. Edge and Undertaker. Just to name a few that were better in the past 12 months.

I agree that Orton/McMahon is better, but I disagree with the others. Michaels/Jericho went on way too long and it got very old. I can't even remember what they were fighting about once it stopped being about Flair.

Edge and Taker started off their feud great. But when you headline five PPVs in a row against each other essentially doing the same thing week in and week out, I don't consider it great. This is another example of something that started well, but turned into shit.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

J.B.L. is far from being the best heel in the business. While he may gain more "real" hatred from the fans than guy's like Orton or Edge, that doesn't exactly mean he's doing his job. If that were the case, the greatest heel of all time would've been Muhammad Hassan. He did his job so well, the company had no alternative but to fire him, because they felt they couldn't even repackage him to the point of fans literally wanting to kill him.

So yes, while he's hated, that doesn't make him the greatest heel. It makes him the biggest dick.

J.B.L. isn't boring people to hate him, he's just boring people in general. No one gave a shit about the Shawn Michaels storyline, to the point of most everyone dreading the time when it'd come to an end. Even now, noone is giving J.B.L. credit for being able to defeat H.B.K. and go on to face the Undertaker.

When J.B.L. was a World Heavyweight Champion, he said himself he was one of Smackdown's longest reigning Champions.. yet people still never and will never consider him a great Champion, or a great Main Eventer. And if he were a great heel, people would have no choice but to be forced to admit those things.

He sucks in the ring, and his mic skills only work because they couldn't get any worse than his wrestling ability.

As a manager, I'd believe he could quite possibly be one of the very best heel manager's. As a wrestler, the guy barely touches Mike Knox.

 

[mattmcgee85]

I, for one, use to turn the tv off when JBL came on and it wasn't until HBK and him started there angle that I watched again.I didn't like him when he was on smackdown and I don't like him now.In my opinion JBL is wanna of the worst wrestlers to ever win the WWE title. In fact, I wasn't a big Eddie guy and I was pissed when he dropped the belt to him. Furthermore, I was never a big Cena guy and I was happy when Jiggly Boobs dropped the belt to Cena.

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

I have to agree. Edge, Jericho or Orton all captivate me and make me want to wtahc the show, but more often than not I go to the bathroom/get a drink when JBLs on. He just bores me, I'd be happier if he either left or went back to commentary.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

J.B.L. isn't boring people to hate him, he's just boring people in general. No one gave a shit about the Shawn Michaels storyline, to the point of most everyone dreading the time when it'd come to an end. Even now, noone is giving J.B.L. credit for being able to defeat H.B.K. and go on to face the Undertaker.

When J.B.L. was a World Heavyweight Champion, he said himself he was one of Smackdown's longest reigning Champions.. yet people still never and will never consider him a great Champion, or a great Main Eventer. And if he were a great heel, people would have no choice but to be forced to admit those things.

He sucks in the ring, and his mic skills only work because they couldn't get any worse than his wrestling ability.

As a manager, I'd believe he could quite possibly be one of the very best heel manager's. As a wrestler, the guy barely touches Mike Knox.

Interesting points. You've made me question my thought process, which is not something I often do. I'm a little bit nervous to be getting into something with you as I have much less on my side. Here goes anyway..

I didn't say that his boring people was intentional. I just said that it was effective. As for his latest feud, I quite enjoyed it. I haven't much discussed it with others, but I assumed that many enjoyed it as well. That doesn't seem to be the case.

His reign was during one of the lowest points in SmackDown history. The show had very little talent. Who did he have to work with? Hardly anyone. They had lost Lesnar, The Rock, and who the hell knows what Taker was doing. He didn't really have much help.

He is terrible in the ring. I didn't say for a moment that he wasn't. Then again, Hogan was terrible in the ring too. As for his mic skills, they're quite good. He speaks fluently and doesn't appear uncomfortable, unlike many others. (Jeff Hardy.)

He would be a great manager, which I hope he will be when he hangs them up.

 

[JJYanks121]

JBL is one of the few guys on any show right now with a solid character base. You hate him because he is a jerk who has success, financially and to an extent in the WWE. Hell, he's been around since the mid 90's, that's gotta count for something. However, as an APA member, you didn't hate him, but you hate him when you find out he's a stock market guru and an ass to boot.

Recently, you watch JBL take advantage of HBK.....is there any better way to get heat? And honestly, I'm not sure ANY other heel could have pulled off that storyline, and I for one, think it's a shame that it was a 1 and done in terms of PPV matches.

About his weight....did anyone notice he lost like 70 pounds. He went on a diet and became a sponsor to a company (though I forget which one) and now in his suit looks a lot slimmer. Plus, everyone loves Mick Foley, including me, but no one has ever looked worse than Mick walking with his beautiful wife in Beyond the Mat.

As much as I want to buy into the "smark" view, I'm not sure I can. For a while, I really tried to buy Orton as the best heel on either roster, but it's impossible to. If you think JBL is boring cutting a promo, watch an Orton promo again. Yes, he's improved lots over the past year, but he still can't touch JBL in that category. I'll be honest, the ONLY reason you hate Orton is because he punts guys in the head that you like. Without that, he's just kind of a a cocky, jerky guy who is a good wrestler. He needed that gimmick for you to hate him. In fact, up until a few weeks ago, you heard more RKO chants than Cena chants. That should tel you something about his heel ability.

Jericho I like but he's getting a little repetitive in this character with his promos. It's like he knows he's better as an arrogant ass character who can do 1 liners but he's battling it to be this more "mature" heel and it may have run it's course.

Edge is a good heel, but his wife is a better one. Take Edge away from vicki and you have a nutjob who you hate because he will still find opportunities wherever they lay. He'll never "earn" anything and you'll hate him for stealing wins. That's classic heel and he does it well. He's the guy I'd put up against JBL.

I'm no JBL lover, but I can see the ability there. He was MADE to be a heel and he is kind of our modern day Million Dollar Man, except his money is real so you can hate him more for it. His job is to go out there and use his financial gain and power to get you to hate him and he does just that. He speaks fluently and uses intelligent language which makes him seem arrogant and too smart for his own good, and he has a very direct way of delivering his promos. No catchphrases, no long winded stories, just to the point promos that tell you why he's a jerk.

Closing, I think if John Layfield was a few years younger, he might just be the biggest heel. Problem is, he is older and he is better utilized always chasing titles but getting beat by the faces you love, which he has done quite often. You love to see him lose to your Cenas, HBKs, etc, and he will do that until he can wrestle no more and hopefully go back to the announce table.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Interesting points. You've made me question my thought process, which is not something I often do. I'm a little bit nervous to be getting into something with you as I have much less on my side. Here goes anyway..

Nothing to fear. Everyone is entitled to opinions. You have a nice thread here, with some points of interest. I just don't view it the same.

I didn't say that his boring people was intentional. I just said that it was effective.

And yet when the crowd chants "Boring" during Wrestling matches, and promos, that's effective to you as well? Lance Storm must've been a very underrated Legend through your eyes during 2003.

The fact is, being boring isn't effective. It's hurtful. If you can't hold the crowd in the palm of your hand.. then you aren't anything. It's one thing to be hated, it's another to be hated and uncared for, or ignored.

J.B.L. was ignored and uncared for. People didn't hate his character, or the things he said. They just seem to hate him in general. As in to the point of just wishing he'd retire, go away, or simply be fired.

As for his latest feud, I quite enjoyed it. I haven't much discussed it with others, but I assumed that many enjoyed it as well. That doesn't seem to be the case.

The problem with his feud with Shawn Michaels was that it never had an alternative ending solution. It was either "I own everything that you stand for in this business, or you magically get paid and get a clean slate."

If the storyline wouldn't of fallen into the realm of never for a moment believing Shawn Michaels' entire "legacy" could be taken from him, and then owned by J.B.L., the whole thing might of drew more interest. But it didn't, because people don't hold onto storylines they know the outcome of 2 months in advance.

His reign was during one of the lowest points in SmackDown history.

Likely the whole point he was ever tried out as a Champion to begin with. They felt they had nothing left to lose. (ie. This makes him bad, not good.)

The show had very little talent. Who did he have to work with? Hardly anyone.

Kurt Angle was there. The Big Show was there. Booker T., Eddie Guerrero, and even the Undertaker were all there.

If feuding with the likes of Kurt Angle and the Undertaker, to the point of WINNING against them, doesn't make you seem like a credible Champion in the eyes of the fans.. NOTHING will.

He is terrible in the ring. I didn't say for a moment that he wasn't. Then again, Hogan was terrible in the ring too.

The huge difference here is, back during Hogan's prime and that time period. Hogan's horrible in-ring skills were about average for what everyone was doing. On the S.N.M.E. Best of DVD, I'm seeing a whole new side to Hogan that I never seen before. He's leaving the ground, he's doing jumping clotheslines. Hes doing moves that I never even thought he could know how to do. So Hogan DOES have skills. He just aged and lost them.

J.B.L. can't use this excuse though, because he was the A-typical brawler who somehow fell into a single's role due to McMahon liking the fact that J.B.L. was a self-made millionaire.

In fact, I'm almost sure the only reason J.B.L. is even still being pushed with this gimmick, is because in some fashion, maybe Vince believes it could be a form of himself.

As for his mic skills, they're quite good. He speaks fluently and doesn't appear uncomfortable, unlike many others. (Jeff Hardy.)

He would be a great manager, which I hope he will be when he hangs them up.

J.B.L. is natural on the mic. Which would make him incredible as a manager. But that doesn't help him as a Wrestler.

 

[Mr. TM]

JBL is a decent heel, but he is not the best.

He is boring, gets booes and all that, yes, but is it because he is a heel, or because people are sick of him? Its like if Cena was booed, people didn't think he was a bad guy on screen, they were sick of him.

Edge makes people hate him, with help from his wife. They actually hate the guy, they want his blood. Chris Jericho has people try to fight him outside of shows, that is true hatred.

Orton has people hate him, but he is more of a cool although psychotic heel. He is better than JBL, but not as good as the Edge.

 

[shafe_41]

JBL does create heat, which makes him good at what he does. But his in-ring performance is not anywhere near as good as it was when he was destroying everybody on Smackdown when he was champ for 9 months. He's not the same JBL anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if this might even be his last Wrestlemania. He doesn't have it like he used to. I do believe he's a good heel, but he's nowhere near the best. He barely makes the top 10 as far as heels in the company in my book. But I certainly don't buy a ppv because of JBL on the card. I don't think anybody does. He's borrrrrrrrrring. His mic skills are some of the best, but his athletic ability is going down faster than Jennifer Aniston goes down on people that can help her career.