Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Fuck her, then tell her husband.
I only read the title.
I only read the title.
Married Woman
- Thread starter Xemmy
- Start date
Because mainstream media is the only source for morals and values in this country?
The environment you grow up in, the type of parents you have, etc. are all more influential than "mainstream media".
What? What are you talking about?
Cheating on her spouse is a violation of trust. It's not the physical act of sex itself, it's the violation of trust between man and wife. It's completely different than seeing a movie. And just to be clear, I'm talking about cheating being different than seeing a movie, not sex between two consenting adults which harms no one else.
And I don't see anything wrong with making it little more than just another human function.
So tell me, why is your viewpoint more correct than mine? How is it a "travesty" mainstream media has taken away the taboo from a perfectly normal and instinctual human habit? I mean, do you see urination as "sacred"? It carries basically the same practical values as sex does.
Sex is not the cause of infidelity, it's the symptom. An arbitrary symptom, at that. Cheating is not about having sex with another person, it's about the violation of trust between two people.
If you want to make something special and sacred, why not make tree planting the symbol of special human connection? Makes as much sense, really.
I disagree, mostly because your environment is composed of media values and your parents are basically told what their values should be by the media. In 10-20 years when my generation is raising kids, sex probably won't be sacred because that's the way the media has portrayed it for us.
I was just mocking the ridiculousness of your sex/movie analogy.
I'm sorry, did I start this debate about whether sex should be sacred or not? No, you did. If you don't think sex should be sacred, that's fine, it's your prerogative. I say this from experience, for me it's important to have sex with someone I trust and feel strongly about. I don't have to love them, but I do have to actually want to be with them for more than just carnal needs.
I'll get to the urination part in a bit, which is just completely ridiculous and I'm sort of embarrassed for you for saying it.
Marriage isn't the only thing that's lost meaning, it was just an example. Everything has lost meaning, almost always due to commercialization and advertising culture.
Once again, this is just stupid, and I once again point to marriage to be the foil to your entire argument. If pissing or planting a tree could be just as special as sex, then why aren't they? Why hasn't society evolved around tree planting or emptying your bladder? We do, however, have a ceremony that's been around for thousands and thousands of years where two people proclaim their love for each other, and they show it by having sex, not by planting a tree together, not by peeing on each other, but by having sex.
If you truly believe that planting a tree or peeing could be just as special as having sex, I encourage you to tell your wife that you think you should make peeing together your thing and that you should be allowed to have sex with other people. You can reinvent marriage as we know it since it seems it's based around having sex, a non-special interaction, with one person for the rest of your life.
Or because people will have learned it's silly to be so uptight about a natural human function. I'm all for "mainstream media" scare tactics, but you're a little off on this.
And doing so miserably, completely missing the point. Good job, we'll call you Zevon_Zion now.
Uhh, yes, you did. You brought up the discussion from your class, I mentioned how I would be mocking lots of people and why, and then you argued with me.
Go back and check the thread Jiggles.
I agree, same here. But then again, I had absolutely no qualms giving it to the hot blonde girl I had just met earlier in the day up the poop chute. Before I met my wife, of course.
Or...people have finally come to their senses and cast off the burden of shame religion tried to lay upon us for centuries for being human beings simply so they could control us.
Either way. Whichever helps you sleep better at night.
Because...it's different?
A subject which could be a long discussion in and of itself, but for simplicity's sake, I'll just go with religion.
Because American society was founded by a primarily Christian people. Catholics still take the official stance against contraception. That's just an example how fucked up Christian values have been regarding sexuality.
Yes, because sex leads to procreation, which leads to rise in population, and thus, civilization. The more people your civilization has, the more soldiers you have to choose from, the more you can expand and conquer, and the richer you will be.
Way to completely miss the point JGlass. Embarrassingly so.
Tell me, do you think the rest of the animal kingdown places such value on reproduction? I believe there are a few species which are known to have mates for life, but that's not true for most species. So what makes human beings different? Simple...we make ourselves different. For whatever reason, sex has been a type of taboo for thousands of years in Christian society. Why? I don't know, I can't answer that, but I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with people thousands of years ago having a keen sense of psychology.
The fact is we have made sex to be "special". So when we now are making it "un-special", I don't see the problem at all, as long as it is two consenting adults, with harm coming to no one.
Or because the media has told my generation that sex should be casual and meaningless. Look at shows like The Secret Life of the American Teenager and Skins. These are shows that tell their viewers that they should be having sex, and lots of it with lots of different people. Anything else is weird.
In that case I owe myself a big pat on the back for not calling anyone gay yet.
Already did. After you came and elaborately told me why me and my classmates (boy do I hate grouping myself in with them) were wrong, I responded with my personal feelings on the matter, and you continued to tell me that sex should be no more special than seeing a movie with a friend.
Then perhaps you don't agree with me as much as you thought. Anal doesn't appeal to me at all.
The days of religion's influence over the masses are over, that duty belongs to the media now. I firmly believe that it's the media's goal to make our society more liberal with sexual values so that they can use it even more effectively to sell products. I know this sounds like the beginning of a huge conspiracy theory, but it just makes sense, doesn't it? Advertisers have been using sex to sell products for decades, and to great success. If they can access the remaining groups of people that aren't attracted to sexual based advertisements, they'd have full control of demand, which is one of the main goal of advertisers. So they team with entertainment producers like musicians and producers and writers and pay them to produce shows and movies and songs that treat sex like it's no big deal. People start consuming this sexually promiscuous media, they in turn become part of this new sexually promiscuous culture, and all of a sudden advertisers have access to groups of people they formerly did not.
It's really no different from the beginning days of advertising when advertisers teamed up with therapists (of all people) to tell their clients they needed to go out and buy stuff to cure their depression.
I'd say the only similarities between peeing and sex is that you use your genitals for both, your ultimate goal is to discharge, and you're able to sleep much better once it's over.
Eh, perhaps. I went into a huge rant about media and advertisers, but I'll admit I'm much more well versed on that than on anthropology.
Christians aren't the only people who have ever had monogamous marriage ceremonies.
That seems like a big difference between sex and peeing and planting a tree.
I didn't miss the point, I merely pushed buttons to try to get a more detailed answer then something about planting a tree.
Animals don't place value on wiping their ass after they shit, and I'm not gonna stop doing that either. They also don't place value on sleeping indoors, watching professional wrestling, eating prepared meals, and most species don't place any value on monogamy either. We make ourselves different because we ARE different. Sex is just one of the thousands of things we do differently from animals.
Enough of the foreplay, this is the missionary position of the argument and all we really need to talk about. You're right, sex has been made to be special, and whether that's a good or bad thing is an opinion that will differ from individual to individual, and I don't know why it differs so much. I mean, you and I seem to have similar backgrounds, but we appear to have two entirely different positions. We both come from good families (I say this because you said something about having a good childhood in another post somewhere), we're educated, liberal, close-ish in age, and based on your arguments here, you don't seem to be a big fan of religion, or at least organized religion. But I digress.
You don't see a problem with it... maybe there is, maybe there isn't, without an objective morality there really isn't any right answer. As society evolves it continues to devalue the meaning of everything, and eventually we'll be living in a totally generic, disingenuous world, but people continue to move in that direction with a smile on their face, sedated by reality television and gourmet meals in cardboard boxes and a shopping mall that takes care of all their needs within a 20 minute drive from their home. If sex becomes one more thing that is devalued, so be it, people don't seem to mind. Call me a romantic or a sentimentalist, but I'm going to hang onto the idea of sex being something special and hope that I can find someone who feels the same way as me.
I got a little preachy/poetic in there, and I apologize to anyone offended by it, but I assure you that this was not my intention. I'm just trying to let you see the situation we're discussing through my eyes.
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
You say you've been alone for a few years. A guy needs to graduate to a married woman, not start with one.
Go have fun with young single girls. Watch Vince Vaughn's lecture in Swingers about the cute and fuzzy bunny. Get a hooker if you need to just to get your mojo back. Go on one of those websites that lists disgusting tramps in your neighborhood if you just need to find someone to sooth your ego.
You have been alone so long that I question whether or not you are even reading this girl correctly. She may just be using your desperation to fulfill an emotional need that her husband neglects. I am a husband so I know about neglecting a wife's emotional needs (I think it was in our vows).
But in the end I agree with anyone who has told you it is just wrong and not worth it.
Go have fun with young single girls. Watch Vince Vaughn's lecture in Swingers about the cute and fuzzy bunny. Get a hooker if you need to just to get your mojo back. Go on one of those websites that lists disgusting tramps in your neighborhood if you just need to find someone to sooth your ego.
You have been alone so long that I question whether or not you are even reading this girl correctly. She may just be using your desperation to fulfill an emotional need that her husband neglects. I am a husband so I know about neglecting a wife's emotional needs (I think it was in our vows).
But in the end I agree with anyone who has told you it is just wrong and not worth it.
Which only stands in opposition to religion telling people for years to never have sex unless it is for procreation purposes only, that sex is a taboo, sex should never be discussed, etc.
If we're going to talk about the brainwashing of people, why are we only going to discuss media? Why not discuss everything?
You told me about class, I gave my platform, and you then disagreed with me. Debate started.
If that's what you think. You're completely wrong, but think that if you'd like. Want an example? Okay, pretend you and I want to get married. Where do we go?
The idea that religion doesn't influence people's lives is just silly.
So you're telling me the media created sexual interest? That sexual interest in the opposite sex didn't exist before the 1970s?
That's just silly. Media sells sex, because sex sells. One of the most iconic moments in history is Marilyn Monroe in The Seven Year Itch, and the billowing of her dress when she's standing above the grate. That was LONG before the mainstream media was selling sex. But it was sexy, and it is iconic.
Media sells sex, because sex sells. It's that simple.
You forgot they are both natural instincts necessary for the continuation of life. They are perfectly normal human functions. To try and tell people it's wrong to do something that feels normal, natural and good is just silly, and that's what you're trying to do. You might as well tell people to be ashamed of urination and defecation.
And I'm sure they're not the only ones who have shamed sex. Not sure of your point.
Exactly! Now you're getting it. We MADE ourselves put sex on a pedestal. Not because it is inherently sacred to human life, but because we arbitrarily chose it to be.
And in that, you can arbitrarily make anything to be sacred and meaningful, like planting a tree as a symbol of marriage. When the human race arbitrarily decides what's important, it's silly for people to get upset when the human race decides it's no longer important.
Completely false. Society doesn't devalue everything, their values change.
For example, in the last 100 years, the concept of equal rights has gone from being a white man only idea, to one that includes women and people of all nationalities. We're currently in the process of granting equal rights under the law to all people of all sexual orientation. The concept of treating people fairly has become very valuable to this society.
Helping others is another value which our society has latched onto. When the earthquake hit Haiti last year, how many millions of dollars did the American citizen send down there? How many people went to help in relief efforts?
And there are many more examples. To say our society devalues the meaning of everything is wrong. Our values are changing, and one value that is changing is the idea that we should be ashamed of our bodies and sex.
Fox News, is that you? Scare people into being ashamed of having sex? Sounds about right.
And that's certainly your choice. No one is going to tell you to think differently. We all have things which we feel are important to us. For example, unless I choose to dine with someone, I don't want anyone to talk to me while I eat. It's just one of those things I place value in. You place value in only meaningful sex, that's completely fine.
However, just like I'm not going to make you feel ashamed for holding sex to be meaningful, you (and others like you) shouldn't make people like me feel ashamed for not placing some arbitrary importance on sex, which is a result of years of brainwashing influence from a variety of factors, not the least of which being religion.
Right now, you're the Christian Republican trying to tell homosexuals how bad it is that they try to get married. You want to only consider yourself, and transfer your values onto the rest of society, regardless of whether it has any effect on you or not. In fact, the taboo against homosexuality exists for the very reason you're now clinging to, the idea that sex should be sacred, and reserved only for procreation, which obviously homosexuals cannot accomplish with sex.
At the end of the day, I find it silly to lament the fact people are finally accepting who they are as human beings, and not being shamed by others into being secretive about sex.
I cut out all the shit before this because it was absolutely pointless and I really don't want to have a "You started it" debate.
Um, what? So you're saying Marilyn Monroe, part of mainstream media, was selling sex before mainstream media was having sex?
But why does sex sell? Because most people want it and want it badly.
I never said people should be ashamed to have sex, you're putting words in my mouth, and you will continue to do so.
I've known this since the beginning. The discussion isn't whether sex is objectively sacred or not, there are very few things in this word that are objective, the discussion is about the merits of keeping sex sacred.
Yes, and with the Patriot Act violating our privacy and constant stories of torture coming from Guantanamo Bay, rights have never been more valued by Americans. And those are just a few of the horrible injustices going on around our country. Family Planning clinics are in trouble, rape laws are archaic, we're still recovering from a mortgage crisis that was started because banks shoved their billion dollar dicks in middle class American asses just to make their coffers a little fuller.
Just because more people are getting these rights doesn't mean we're starting to value them more.
How many people wouldn't have donated to Katrina victims if they didn't have celebrities campaigning for the cause on every major news station? How many people would have totally ignored Haiti if Wycleff Jean didn't make sure we all knew about it?
I'm very skeptical about whether our society values altruistically helping others or trying to imitate the bourgeoisie.
Hit me with 'em. For every example you have I can provide more examples of why you're wrong.
Dude, are you reading what I write? Keeping sex sacred is my choice, and though I think it's a better decision, I respect the rights of people who decide to have casual sex.
Cool.
Have I done that yet? Please pinpoint the time that I said that sex is objectively sacred and that anyone who doesn't try to keep it sacred is doing a terrible thing? If you can find when I said that I will immediately issue an apology and retract that statement.
And once again, I never said my values were better than anyone else's, they're just better for me, and values that I think should be at least considered by others.
Being secretive about sex and keeping sex sacred are two different things. Perhaps we're differing on semantics, but my definition of sacred sex is only doing it with someone you care deeply about and someone you want to pursue something further with. It doesn't mean you can only do it on certain days of the week or only with people you have made some sort of huge commitment to, just someone that is very special to you.
I've been using the word objective a lot in this argument, and I will have to once again, because I firmly believe that next to nothing in this world is objectively right or wrong, good or bad (there are exceptions of course), and in this case my definition of sacred is totally subjective to me. You and I seem to have different ideas regarding what makes sex sacred.
Um, what? So you're saying Marilyn Monroe, part of mainstream media, was selling sex before mainstream media was having sex?
But why does sex sell? Because most people want it and want it badly.
I never said people should be ashamed to have sex, you're putting words in my mouth, and you will continue to do so.
I've known this since the beginning. The discussion isn't whether sex is objectively sacred or not, there are very few things in this word that are objective, the discussion is about the merits of keeping sex sacred.
Yes, and with the Patriot Act violating our privacy and constant stories of torture coming from Guantanamo Bay, rights have never been more valued by Americans. And those are just a few of the horrible injustices going on around our country. Family Planning clinics are in trouble, rape laws are archaic, we're still recovering from a mortgage crisis that was started because banks shoved their billion dollar dicks in middle class American asses just to make their coffers a little fuller.
Just because more people are getting these rights doesn't mean we're starting to value them more.
How many people wouldn't have donated to Katrina victims if they didn't have celebrities campaigning for the cause on every major news station? How many people would have totally ignored Haiti if Wycleff Jean didn't make sure we all knew about it?
I'm very skeptical about whether our society values altruistically helping others or trying to imitate the bourgeoisie.
Hit me with 'em. For every example you have I can provide more examples of why you're wrong.
Dude, are you reading what I write? Keeping sex sacred is my choice, and though I think it's a better decision, I respect the rights of people who decide to have casual sex.
Cool.
Have I done that yet? Please pinpoint the time that I said that sex is objectively sacred and that anyone who doesn't try to keep it sacred is doing a terrible thing? If you can find when I said that I will immediately issue an apology and retract that statement.
And once again, I never said my values were better than anyone else's, they're just better for me, and values that I think should be at least considered by others.
Being secretive about sex and keeping sex sacred are two different things. Perhaps we're differing on semantics, but my definition of sacred sex is only doing it with someone you care deeply about and someone you want to pursue something further with. It doesn't mean you can only do it on certain days of the week or only with people you have made some sort of huge commitment to, just someone that is very special to you.
I've been using the word objective a lot in this argument, and I will have to once again, because I firmly believe that next to nothing in this world is objectively right or wrong, good or bad (there are exceptions of course), and in this case my definition of sacred is totally subjective to me. You and I seem to have different ideas regarding what makes sex sacred.
I'm telling you mainstream media wasn't selling sex until late 60s or early 70s, and even then, it wasn't until the early 90s when it was invading our homes every night on the television.
You can't say mainstream media, and then only point to one medium of media. Mainstream media has to include a regular and constant assault of an idea, which simply was not true of sex when Marilyn Monroe stood above that grate.
Exactly? Why should we be ashamed of that?
Well...what do you think is going to happen if you hold sex on a pedestal, and people break the social norm and have sex? They will be shamed.
So that really is what you're saying.
No, the discussion was about you lamenting the fact sex is no longer sacred, and me pointing out it's silly to be ashamed of the fact we're sexual creatures.
There you go. In a country of more than 311 million people, pointing to the actions of a couple thousand people makes a great point.
See above.
I don't have the first clue who Wycleff Jean is, and I don't remember any celebrities campaigning for New Orleans. I don't doubt they were all over the place, but it doesn't change the fact people would give anyways.
How many celebrities have asked for donations for the relief efforts in Joplin, Missouri where the tornado ripped the town apart? How many of those have you seen? Not many? But how many people donated food and money, how many people drove to Joplin to pitch in with relief efforts, helping these people get back on their feet? My mother and brother were among those people. Why? Because they wanted to do a good deed.
If you're really trying to tell me America doesn't value anything anymore, just because you're throwing a hissy fit about the fact we don't all agree with your value of sex, then that's just a you problem. You're going to have to figure that out on your own.
Yes, presenting the actions of a small percentage of people on a couple of occasions is a GREAT way to prove Americans aren't about helping those who need it.
No you don't. Here's your exact words.
You most certainly are casting judgment on those who don't hold sex sacred. Who are you trying to kid?
I anxiously await your apology.
No, you just said we were disgusting and it was horrific we don't see sex in the same light as you.
No passing of judgment at all there.
You made a very strong statement regarding American values of sex, and said our current values on sex are "disgusting" and "horrific". You made this statement relating a discussion which you indicated most, if not all, of the class had this same viewpoint.
I'm not sure exactly what "subjectivity" was in this conversation. It seems to me you, at first, were trying to say that since everyone didn't share your opinion on sex, it was horrific and disgusting. I took issue with that, especially since your opinion on sex is archaic, and indicative of thousands of years of religious oppression regarding the human body and sex.
If you're now going to tell me that you don't care what others do, and you only care about your own value of sex, then that's fine. I would assume you'd retract and apologize for your current statement of us who have a different opinion than you as disgusting and horrific. At that point, you and I would be seeing eye to eye on this thing, in that we'll have our own opinions, and recognize others do not share our opinions. Sound good?
Sex remains taboo because of STDs, and because there are so many irresponsible morons out there who don't properly use birth control. If people were more careful in this country the last 30 years or so, sex wouldn't be as "taboo" as it is, no doubt about it.
But it's really hard to look at it without having kids of my own to think about. I'm not sure how I would approach the subject of sex with them. God, I just hope I never have a daughter. I already know I won't be able to bare the thought of a bunch of black guys impaling her with cock.
But it's really hard to look at it without having kids of my own to think about. I'm not sure how I would approach the subject of sex with them. God, I just hope I never have a daughter. I already know I won't be able to bare the thought of a bunch of black guys impaling her with cock.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
... Thanks.
Hawt.
But you just said Marilyn Monroe was standing on vents blowing her dress around. That sounds like the media selling sex to me.
We had Elvis and his hips, ads like this (http://www.fuelyourillustration.com/files/fifties_illo_01.jpg) portrayed attractive women in bathing suits, TV couples were sleeping in the same bed... they were selling sex long before you give them credit for, Slyfox.
There are a handful of things that I don't like seeing commercialized and used to sell stuff. The military is one of them, tragedies like hurricane Katrina or the Toyota recalls a few years back are another, and blatant sexual advertisement is yet another.
I don't like the phrase putting on a pedestal because it's making it seem like I'm making sex out to be more important than it is. I don't think I am, I'm just trying to add meaning to something that has become increasingly meaningless. If that's putting it on a pedestal, than sitcom producers have been doing that to television for years.
Well then we can agree there's no objectively right answer.
Except when those couple thousand people include the folks who make all the laws and governing decisions for the 311 million, we start to have a SERIOUS problem.
He's a successful musician/producer that is from Haiti, or at least has Haitian origins of some sort. And I doubt people would give if celebrities didn't attach themselves to whatever cause.
I sincerely doubt the contributions made to Joplin come anywhere close to the contributions made to Katrina victims or the Haiti earthquake victims. It's a shame too, I bet there would have been plenty of celebrities looking to clean up their image by supporting a cause.
Who's throwing a hissy fit? I suppose we'll get to that later. And Americans, as well as people all over the world, have been devaluing everything for decades, whether it's personal responsibility or privacy rights or marriage or sex or just about anything. To not see how cheapened much of our world has become shows blindness to the reality of the world around us.
Yes, presenting the actions of a small percentage of people on a couple of occasions is a GREAT way to prove Americans aren't about helping those who need it.
Small percentage of people on a couple of occasions? Whatchu talkin' about Sly?
Nobody, you misinterpreted what I was saying. I was lambasting the media for commercializing sex, not people for making sex less meaningful.
I'm sorry that you didn't understand what I was trying to say.
Or, you know, I was talking about how media has taken sex, something that used to be for people who loved each other, and then changed it to something that you could do with a friend or casual acquaintance, and from there made it something that everyone was doing and that you're abnormal if you're not having lots and lots of sex with lots and lots of different people.
People can have sex with whomever they want, it's their life. I suppose it's the media's right to portray sex however the hell they want too, I just think it's a shame that fewer and fewer people are going to treat sex as special.
I deleted the rest because A) I'm going to be late for work and B) it was mostly just the misunderstanding they had.
I'm not a sociologist, I'm much more interested in consumerism and commercialism, which is why I've steered this conversation in that direction. People can do whatever the hell they want as a society as long as nobody is getting hurt, and I think we can agree with the advancements in birth control, nobody has to get hurt with sex (providing people use that birth control, but that's an entirely different argument that I'm unqualified to have).
In case you haven't realized, I trust advertisers and mass media producers just about as much as I trust Republicans. Maybe that's why I want to become a producer of media, so I can try to depict my values and their merits, but that's beside the point. I don't want to argue with you about whether making sex less special is right or wrong, because I think we both agree it differs from person to person. I am enjoying debating the morality of how sex is portrayed by mass media, though, and I'd like to continue that conversation.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Well it would have been a bit ridiculous if it did.
Joplin: 158 Deaths, 1-3 Billion in Damages
Haiti: Upwards of 46,000
Katrina: 1,836 deaths 81.2 Billion in damages
It pains me to say this because the Joplin Tornado was horrific and frankly, terrifying because it was so close to home, but it just was not on the same level as the other disasters. It would have been a bit silly if they were bombarded with donations the likes of which the other 2 were.
El Rev sXe
If you have ghosts...
Do it man, if you are looking for some one night thing, then you0lle be just fine. Now if you are looking for an actual relationship, you need to be sure that the girl doesn't have anymore feelings for her husband.
The problem with ending a relationship and then jumping to another is that most of the time the person who does it still have feeling for the ex and well she/he starts comparing both relationships and doesn't see it as a separate situation.
The problem with ending a relationship and then jumping to another is that most of the time the person who does it still have feeling for the ex and well she/he starts comparing both relationships and doesn't see it as a separate situation.
Stay away from my Wife Xemnas or Ill kick your ass.
But seriously, I cant see any good coming from this. With you having become close with her for 6 months, you already demonstrated in this post emotional attchments have already been formed. One of you, likely you, is going to wind up hurt in the end, and even if it were to work out, do you really want to be the guy who broke up their marriage? I know youre not worried about the husband because of your view on marriage, but in your sense of morality, you should at least have respect for those who do value it. He may be one of them. Do you want to be the guy whose constantly looking over your schedule for the rest of his life? And whose to say if she wont do this to someone she's married to, why wouldnt she do the same to you, who she wont be married to? Stay clear, nothing good can come from this buddy.
Nate has kids, and a girl. Plus he's a decent guy who can see the world objectively. In other words, he's better in every possibly way then you, ZZ. Heck, hes better then most of us.
But seriously, I cant see any good coming from this. With you having become close with her for 6 months, you already demonstrated in this post emotional attchments have already been formed. One of you, likely you, is going to wind up hurt in the end, and even if it were to work out, do you really want to be the guy who broke up their marriage? I know youre not worried about the husband because of your view on marriage, but in your sense of morality, you should at least have respect for those who do value it. He may be one of them. Do you want to be the guy whose constantly looking over your schedule for the rest of his life? And whose to say if she wont do this to someone she's married to, why wouldnt she do the same to you, who she wont be married to? Stay clear, nothing good can come from this buddy.
Nate has kids, and a girl. Plus he's a decent guy who can see the world objectively. In other words, he's better in every possibly way then you, ZZ. Heck, hes better then most of us.
Pepe Silvia
Occasional Pre-Show
That'd still cause just as much drama for him, if not more
So now we've gone from "mainstream media" to just "media".
You should know better than to play word games with me Jiggly.
I'm not sure you understand the difference between sex and sexy. The image you posted was sexy, but not sex. There was nothing sexually inviting about those images.
And the word "sacred" doesn't? Are you kidding me? Go look up the definition of sacred. When I said "putting it on a pedestal", it was much less important than sacred.
Sure there is. The right answer is that you keep your opinion to yourself, and those of us who have no problem with the idea of sex will keep ours to ourselves.
No one is going to make you have sex, so don't try and tell us we're bad people for having sex.
Completely different topic of conversation Jiggly-Puff, completely different conversation.
We're talking about what Americans value. You said we value nothing, or we are in the process of devaluing everything. Your statement could not have been more wrong, and I proved it. Don't try and turn the conversation to something it's not.
That's a bunch of nonsense. Even you know that.
People give because they want to. The celebrities just help them know how.
Way to completely miss the point again Mr. Jiggle Jangle.
The point was people were still willing to help and donate time, money and supplies, and there weren't any celebrities there. Which means people are willing to help those in need without celebrities, which proves my statement Americans do hold things in high value.
I think you've kind of forgotten the point of this direction of the conversation.
^ That guy.
Your stupid examples of Guantanamo and lawmakers.
Okay, Zevon_Zion, whatever you say. I guess the words "how disgustingly watered down sex has become" ARE kind of ambiguous.
Yes, you're right. Media FORCED us to do that. When I was banging the hot blond in the brown eye, it was because mainstream media dragged me out of my apartment and told me I had to do it.
You're reaching now. And I think you've yet to find the ledge to save you from this fall from logic.
No no, what you mean is you think it's a shame MEDIA is not going to treat sex as special. Right? Right?
It's like you're jumping back and forth whenever it suits your fancy, because you're getting killed straight up. The fact is, mainstream media can do anything it wants, but if Americans weren't interested, mainstream media wouldn't sell sex. And if Americans weren't having sex, then sex wouldn't be watered down.
So when you said you're disgusted about how sex is watered down and how it's horrific Americans are willing to buy sex, what you're really doing is casting your high horse opinion on those who don't see sex as "sacred". You're being judgmental, calling us disgusting.
You can spin it anyway you want, but with the American society, nothing you said in that school class makes sense. So when you're criticizing whomever you want to criticize, at the end of that rope will always be the American people, and those are the ones you are casting your words like disgusting and horrific towards.
As soon as you realize you cannot have a discussion about media without also referring to the people who support it, then we can have our discussion.
But he himself is free from any blame. If he's not dating the woman, he's not touching her, and she says that she wants a divorce from her husband to be with him, then it's all on her. He had absolutely nothing to do with that decision.
It may not matter much to the husband, but it will to anyone who is sane.
Pepe Silvia
Occasional Pre-Show
If she's gonna divorce for some random kid, he's probably going to be pissed as shit and she's probably going to ask him to be her savior
Fair enough.
There is a difference between sexy and sex. One is an adjective, the other is a verb.
"Regarded with great respect and reverence by a particular religion, group, or individual"
Sounds like what I'm talking about.
How many times in this conversation alone have I said that people can do whatever they want? Do you think I'm just saying this emptily? Honestly, you seem to focus on all the things you disagree with rather than the things that have been agreeable. Or are you just trying to humiliate me? And I thought we were friends
.Never have, never will.
But you don't see Americans raising a big stink about having their rights taken away. In the UK they cut money for scholarships and people flipped the fuck out. Here we're readily willing to have our privacy invaded.
You have way too much faith in humanity.
Tends to happen.
^ That guy.
Your definition of a hissy fit seems to be what most people would call a disagreement.
Nobody is raising a stink about the gross human rights violations in Guantanamo. Maybe it's because nobody gives a fuck about human rights violations unless it's happening to them.
Okay, Zevon_Zion, whatever you say. I guess the words "how disgustingly watered down sex has become" ARE kind of ambiguous.
Perhaps I misspoke when I said that, I'll give you that. I was referring to the watered down version of sex media presents to us.
Just because you and I are intelligent, media literate people, doesn't mean the majority are. In fact, the vast majority of this country is media illiterate, which is why nearly every facet of our society is shaped by mainstream media.
I'm starting to think you have no concept of how easily manipulated our society is. That's not to say we'll gobble up whatever is fed to us, but if you're constantly being bombarded with the same message everywhere you go, it's bound to stick eventually.
Yeah, that is what I meant actually. I'm not ashamed to admit that I get riled up when I debate with you, and when that happens mistakes are made.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? In this case, probably the casual sex. But like anything that starts as a niche thing that only a minority of people do, advertisers and media producers will take it and try to sell it to the masses. It caught on because, well, who doesn't like sex? I'm not saying what they did wasn't brilliant, I'm just saying I don't like it.
Not even a little. You do a magnificent job of twisting my words, despite the fact that I have said...
Back to you said:
Trust the professor with a masters degree and years in the advertising business, or the guy from the internet... hmmmmm...
The media. Always. If not them, Republicans.
I think how the media and consumer culture manipulates people is disgusting and horrific, that doesn't mean I think the people being manipulated are.
Pffft, shows how much you know about the current state of media culture. People HATE commercialism and media influences. The only way media can get people to trust them is by building a relationship with them, which is why you see networks like Fox News having tremendous success.
But if you can't build a relationship, you have to be sneaky. Product placement has become a go to for advertisers because people will reject products that are straight up advertised to them. It's also why you see so many people doing guerrilla and viral marketing, because, despite what I said earlier, people ARE becoming more media literate... in terms of traditional media. However, advertisers are staying ahead of the curve, and they will continue to influence us through these means.
I talked about the chicken or the egg thing earlier, and you'd be right in saying that a phenomenon (such as casual sex) exists before the media commercializes it, but it's just that, a phenomenon, something that exists amongst a relatively small group of people. From there, it's the media's job to make it look attractive and appealing, and from there advertisers use that to sell shit. One such observable phenomenon is teen pregnancy. It started as sort of a black eye on teen culture, but low and behold, the media found a way to make it cool, and now you see the "stars" of shows like 16 and Pregnant gracing our People magazine covers.
Now I'm sure you'll agree that teen pregnancy isn't wrong. After all, it's our society that made teenage pregnancy into a taboo.
Anyways, I'd like to continue talking to you in a civilized manner where you aren't trying to rile me up by calling me Zevon_Zion or any form of Jigglyx that you can think of, but if that's the only way you can continue to converse I'll have to resign from this argument.
Okay, so coming from experience on this.. It's really not worth it. I was the "other man" in a marriage once. Was with the chick for 2 months, she even drove across the country to stay with me for a month, and it was way more drama than was needed. Honestly, I have no faith in marriage, especially with divorce rate in North America being so high, but trust me man, it will NOT be worth it. The sex will probably be great, and you'll have a fun month or so, but after that... Pure crap.
I promised myself that never again would I do that. I don't regret doing it the first time, but won't do it again. There are more single girls than you think. Maybe not in your direct area, but they are out there. If you're just looking for a hookup, go to the bar. If you want a relationship, stay out of the bar.
Remember, you can't make a hoe a housewife
I promised myself that never again would I do that. I don't regret doing it the first time, but won't do it again. There are more single girls than you think. Maybe not in your direct area, but they are out there. If you're just looking for a hookup, go to the bar. If you want a relationship, stay out of the bar.
Remember, you can't make a hoe a housewife
One applies to this discussion, and the other does not.
And that's NOT putting it on a pedestal?
I get that, but you're still going to judge them for it. It's still horrific. You still want to shame the others.
You can say that people can do whatever they want as many times as you want, it won't change your main idea, which is you find it horrific people don't respect sex the way they used to, which is to say, they're not ashamed of being sexual creatures.
Which has what to do with what I said?
You're far too cynical. Looks like mainstream media has captured another.
When you're telling people their opinions on sex is disgusting and horrific, I call that a hissy fit.
Are you kidding? It was a huge story. Plenty of outrage.
Well, we're halfway there then.
How can you water down sex?
Which is why New Coke did so well, right?
People are going to like what they like. People like sex, always have and always will. They've been having sex since the beginning of time. The difference is that it's no longer something to be ashamed of, as it once was.
The reason for this is because people realize it's just sex, it's not a big deal. We're not going to hell for having sex for reasons other than procreation. Has the media played a part in this, sure, but only because it's what people want to do in the first place.
The ONLY reason people used to "respect" sex so much (and I use that loosely, as sex outside of marriage was hardly a rarity) is because of religious reasons and fear of judgment from others, who probably also engaged in sex out of wedlock and for reasons other than procreation.
People in America have been having sex outside of wedlock since the founding of this country. It's not that people respect sex less, they just are much less snobbish about it.
Fair enough.
So then the question I have to ask is, if you don't care about other people's opinion on sex, why do you care about media's opinion on sex? It doesn't effect you, it's not going to change your mind, so why do you care how they portray it?
Yes, because as well know, professors are always full of wisdom, and never let personal values creep into their teachings.
That was you extending an olive branch, wasn't it?
Casual sex most certainly existed amongst more than a relatively small group of people. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Just ask Thomas Jefferson.
It's not that people are having more out of wedlock sex, it's that people just aren't ashamed of it anymore. We have the means to do it in a safer manner, it feels great, and the stigma for doing it is much less than it once was.
Yes, because a child who is financially and emotionally unprepared for taking care of another human being is the same thing as two people willingly engaging in sex. Completely the same thing.
C'mon, you can do better than that. That teenage pregnancy affects the life of another. The child has a mother and father completely unprepared to be able to take care of it. Much different than two consenting adults having sex.
I only do that because some of your arguments are eerily similar to Z_Z, in that you make off the wall statements which you should be more intelligent than to make, such as your teenage pregnancy example. At the end, I want to leave you with one last thought, one I already gave you earlier in the thread.
"So then the question I have to ask is, if you don't care about other people's opinion on sex, why do you care about media's opinion on sex? It doesn't effect you, it's not going to change your mind, so why do you care how they portray it?"
Because I find the manipulation of culture to sell stuff to be immoral. While I have been going after the media for depicting sex in a way I disagree with, I really only have issue with shows like Secret Life of an American Teenager and 16 and Pregnant. My issue is much more with advertising.
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
Hey! Guess what I did this summer!?
I fucked a married woman. Nevermind that she was filling me up about leaving him (which she did for like two weeks). I feel kinda ashamed in saying this (which is a lot coming from me) but god damn was that the best sex I've had in years. Yeah, I have a little bit of guilt from it. But in the end I feel ok about it. I don't recommend fucking someone who's married just to do it, but I do recommend doing something rather crazy and stupid once in awhile.
I fucked a married woman. Nevermind that she was filling me up about leaving him (which she did for like two weeks). I feel kinda ashamed in saying this (which is a lot coming from me) but god damn was that the best sex I've had in years. Yeah, I have a little bit of guilt from it. But in the end I feel ok about it. I don't recommend fucking someone who's married just to do it, but I do recommend doing something rather crazy and stupid once in awhile.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
Xemmy Xemnas, I reckon you do..... what you want. Enough people have given good advise so I say fuck her in her husband's bed until you get found out. There you go.
