Lost Finishers

[Darkshot77]

If you frequent Wikapedia as much as I do you notice a few things about the wrestlers and their finishers. Lets Take recently released Domino for example. His finishers are:

Cliffhanger(Springboard tornado DDT) - OVW
Leg hook brainbuster - OVW
Vertical suplex piledriver - OVW

Now a big man like Domino preforming a springboard tornado DDT would look cool. Unfortueately none of these moves were ever performed in the WWE. In fact there are several wrestlers who have moves marked OVW, FCW, ROH, or Independent circuit. For another example lets take MVP:

Malicious Intent(Spinning Capoeira kick) – Independent circuit
Playmaker(Overdrive) – WWE
Running big boot to a standing, cornered or kneeling opponent's face – WWE
T.T.B. – (Take it) To The Bank / Tribute To Benoit (Arm trap crossface) – Independent circuit

Now several people are screaming MVP needs a new finisher, I think he needs an old finisher. Something like the Malicious Intent or the T.T.B. would work. So why are these finishers lost. Mabey it is because wrestlers can't share finishers. Michelle McCool has a supposed finisher called the Wings of Love(Lifting sitout double underhook facebuster). I have never seen it probibly because it looks too much like a Pedigree. Ken Kennedy needed a new finisher because he could not use his Kenton Bomb because Jeff Hardy used a senton bomb. So he came up with the Green Bay Plunge and now the Mic Check. But aperantly the Mic Check(Leg hook reverse STO) and the Paydirt of Shelton Benjamin (Leaping spike reverse STO) are different enough. So two questions: 1. should wrestlers be allowed to share finishers and 2. Why does the WWE prevent wrestlers from using certain finishers.

 

[klunderbunker]

1. I think for the most part no they shouldn't be allowed to share finishers. Those moves are what sets people apart from others. Take for example Jake Roberts and the DDT. That move is his, plain and simple. Dozens of wrestlers use ddt's in matches, but rarely as a finisher. Roberts is famous for it though, and its really not that different than anyone elses. If someone else started to use it as much, it would lose a lot of its uniqueness and wouldn't be nearly as feared.

2. WWE wants its wrestlers to wrestle the company's style. Several of their wrestlers do indeed have moves like this, but perhaps they don't fit their current gimmicks or someone else already uses them. Take for example CM Punk. He used a move called the Pepsi Plunge in ROH. The Pepsi Plunge is nothing more than a second rope pedigree. This can't be used though because its HHH's signature move, so the GTS was given to Punk. A lot of his moves are more high flying and less strikes, which WWE tends to prefer.

 

[Dead Kennedy]

1. Finishers are a great way of giving a gimmick its own personality, but such as in the case of Kennedy/Jeff both men should have been allowed to keep their finisher. The Kenton Bomb kicked ass - a hell of a lot more ass than the Mic Check does. It's extremely relative to who uses what.

2. WWE are extremely skeptical to any move they haven't seen before. Cookie Magnet Punk's Pepsi Plunge, for instance, is a pretty risky move to pull off and sell realistically. And Hunter has the Pedigree, which pretty much defines the "H." WWE want the guys to wrestle their style. I think the Pepsi Plunge would have put Punk over more, though. It kicks ass.

 

[mr_shwiggy]

1. I think that a good finisher basically makes or breaks a lot of guys' ability to get over, long term, especially babyfaces. I think that 'top guys' should have their own finisher, or like maybe one guy on the other brand with the same one, in certain instances. But in the case of mid-carders, i don't see anything wrong with people having very similar finishers. I think it would be better if WWE acknowledged when people used the same finisher more often, like Batista vs. Edge they could have built the ENTIRE feud around the spear vs spear dynamic. Batista's stronger, but Edge is quicker and has more experience so he knows how to scout and counter it.... fun stuff like that. Look at London vs. Kidman, their feud was built around the Shooting Star Press, and it made the finishes of their matches that much more enthralling. So overall, if they let two wrestlers use the same finisher, it should be deliberate and built upon at some point.

2.Refer to the SSP example above. Some finishers, though flashy, are rather dangerous. Look what happened to Chavo Guererro. Him getting injured by (i think it was) Kidman when he botched a Shooting Star, is what made WWE tone down the use of the move. I think that London should still have been able to use the SSP during his tag reign with Kendrick, but only on a limited basis, ie only at PPVs or something like that. It's so risky that you should give him a seperate finish and bump that up to "SUPER FINISHER" status. I really think that they should do that with a lot of guys. Something tells me that Punk might be crazy enough to use the Pepsi Plunge on JBL at Summerslam. And not only can Punk pull it off effectively what with all the indy practice, but why would A WREST-A-LING GOD-A bother to watch the old tapes of some 'opportunistic indy punk?' JBL would never see it coming. So again in summation if you're gonna use a crazy, dangerous, or overly flashy finisher, make sure it's damned impressive, and a special occasion when you do.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

Wrestlers really shouldnt share finishers. A finishing move should be exciting and if 2-3 people use the same finisher it kind of waters it down. The are examples where certain moves are used like the Chokeslam for example. Kane & Big Show both use it and it doesn't seem to hinder either's finisher and both finishers are well liked. Also if the move is altered somewhat than I think its alright. Like if one wrestler uses a normal DDT as a finisher, then if another wrestler wants to use the DDT as a finisher they should de a lifted DDT or a reverse or alter it just enough to make it their own. Just like Khali and his chokebomb which is basically a two hand chokeslam but its enough to distinguish from Kane/Show's move.

Also like others have said WWE wants wrestlers to wrestle their own style, thus why many older finishers are not allowed. Also Vince likes to pretty much "re-created" wrestlers by changing their names, gimmicks, and also finishers so they can become Vince's vision.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Swiggy has a point with the 'special occassion' moves. I always enjoyed seein Kurt Angle do a top rope Angle Slam once in a blue moon, and chokeslams off of ladders or from the turnbuckle to the announce table were always classic. Spots like that made a forgettable match memorable.

One argument that's been made i don't quite agree with though. More than one guy with the same finisher. Taker and Kane had pretty much the exact same signature moves for 4 years. Now you could argue with me that Kane doesn't use the tombstone anymore and has substituted that for the chokeslam, and that the only reason their moves were the same was because Kane was supposed to be the stronger brother, so he does everything Taker does, but better, and then when they weren't fueding, that emphasis was fazed out.
I would say, 'ok fine, but now he has the same finisher as Big Show'. The only difference is that Kane's is called the chokeslam from hell, and Show's is just the chokeslam. Also, with the Kenton being switched for the Mic Check, that doesn't explain why Ken gave up the Green Bay Plunge, which is a finisher no-one's ever done (in WWE anyway). Yes, Punk wouldn't be allowed to use the Pepsi Plunge, so then why did they suddenly stop him from using the Anaconda Vise? He started out with it, and then gave it up for no reason.
Cena still uses the Proto-plex or whatever it used to be called in OVW, just not as a finisher.

If Gregory Helms were not injured, would Y2J be using the Codebreaker as his finisher? Who knows? I'm going to say that no, he wouldn't. Should it be such a big deal? Not in my opinion. It takes more than a finisher to make a superstar. Sure being innovative helps, but randomly changing moves lists for no apparent reason, for moves that aren't a good tends to confuse fans, and in Paul Burchill's case, people stop caring.*

*when i say that, Paul started with the C4 right? People noticed him. Then they noticed more because of his pirate gimmick. Then, he loses the pirate gimmick, loses the innovative finisher and now nobody could care less (arguably due to the booking), but a decent set of moves would help him to get over imo. Just look at Evan Bourne. Has he ever been given a mic? And look how over he is.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I actually looked into this a bit more, and found some other talent that have dropped decent signature moves for average moves.

Beth Phoenix used to do a sit out death valley driver as her finisher from the middle rope. Much like the Pepsi Plunge outshining the Pedigree, this would do the same to Cena, so i guess that's why that was scrapped.

Regal is another prime example. He used to have the Regal Cutter (the arm wrap neckbreaker) as well as the Regal Stretch. Then he had the Power of the Punch, and now he has a knee trembler. WTF? A knee to the head? As a finisher? Again i could understand why he'd have to not use the Regal Stretch because its similar to the STF, but seriously a knee to the head over an innovative wrestling move? Pah-leez!

I'm interested to know what Colt Ca... sorry, Scotty Goldman will be using as a finisher. Sure as hell won't be his version of the Kryptonite Krunch, and i doubt he'll be pulling out any twisting snap superplexes in the near future either

 

[Joaquim Akaem]

Certainly is interesting to see what finishers get used and dropped when a particular wrestler gets pushed in some way. This doesn't just happen for finishers but for other moves in general which may or may not be a signiture manoever.

I think for the mot part its down to a change in allignment, since Edge turned heel a few years back, i've almost never seen him do a downward spiral or the front facebuster he was once famed for doing. Shelton Benjamin rarely goes for a t-bone or a superkick anymore and I've not seen Kane pull out a tombstone for time, since he was last portrayed as a "monster" I think. Its tricky to keep some moves when switching over to a heel, because the crowd will still cheer when they see the popular moves. Take Burchill for example, although his curent finisher is nowhere near as good as his old one, he can't use it because if he does, people will almost want to cheer for him just because he has an interesting exciting impressive finisher. John Morrisson also has been known to use a corkscrew moonsault, but its too good a move for him to use as a heel.

I think wrestlers like to try and get other moves to use as a signature or finisher, but they just dont get over enough and are never really established enough to use on a regular basis. I remember HHH has been through about 3 or 4 different submissions to try,but none of them have really taken off, The Big Show is always trying to use new moves to finish a match, currently he is trying to get over his K.O punch.
I don't know why some try and fail, maybe its just down to personal preference of the user, Kurts ankle lock was one that did work however, it became more over that his short lives chicken wing and even more over than his angle slam. Carlito did the same for his backstabber, although I think that was more fitting to his heel character.

I suppose we'll never know the real reason for each and every individual "lost finisher" unless said wrestler explains it in an interview or smtg. but its not something that goes unnoticed.

 

[Starchild]

I understand the point in limiting wrestlers and banning some moves, or in WWE's case wrestling "their style", but I can't help but to feel cheated sometimes. Some of these guys that IWC rags on all the time have tons of moves that WWE doesn't want them to use because it doesn't fit their image. The one who immediately comes to mind is CM Punk. If you watch his Indy, ROH work this guy is spectacular. The Pepsi Plunge is devastating, but it is rather dangerous and resembles the Pedigree which is obviously Trips' trademark. Also things like the Pepsi Twist and the Punk-Handle Piledriver look awesome. But at least like the Anaconda Vice or something. Let him show that he can 'wrestle' well and he will get even more over.
I like that they allowed Evan Bourne/Matt Sydal to use his arsenal as it were. The guy really seems to defy gravity and that moonsault and SSP is unbelievable. For the first time since I don't know when, there was actually and "ECW" chant last night after he did it. This is just an example of letting a guy do his thing and seeing where it takes you.
There are dangers involved, which is why you monitor some of these moves, but I would definitely like to see WWE let some of these guys try out the old moves and see if they can make it work, because I believe most them can

 

[Mr. TM]

I always as a youngster found it neat how Booker T and The Rock shared a Finisher, The Book-End and The Rock Bottom. I was so intreged about what would happen if these two could ever get to wrestle. Luckily I got to see that day during the Invasion Era. With the timing of that Era, with the Rock leaving, there wasn't that much tie where they shared the finisher. But wrestlers prehaps could have a finisher on one brand (IE Smackdown!), and another finisher on the Raw brand to prevent this. Some wrestlers have their finishers locked in. The Old School is The Undertaker. Chockeslam is also used by Taker, but its more of Kanes Finisher. Big Show uses other finishers now. Pedigree is to be used by Triple H only. Moves by smaller wrestler in the Midcard though can be used by other Wrestlers.

 

[foundation611]

I agree with you guys on the whole finisher thing. It should be a wrestlers trademark. Like I just posted in another thread Cody Rhodes has the ddt. A simple ddt. Are you kidding me? At least do a variation of a move a la Ted Dibiase Jr. I love the Million Dollar Dream into the Russian leg sweep. Its simple and is something I haven't seen before and all it is is 2 simple moves put together to make it his own. He could even use that to go forward instead of backward if he wanted.
Look at Evan Bourne. The SSP is a move that's been done before but he really does it better than anyone I've ever seen and it gets him over with the crowd because its not a simple suplex or backslide a la Ricky Ortiz. Oh wait he has that idiotic looking running splash. ugh. I wish they'd let Bourne do his Cyclorama. That was a sick move. Overhead Belly to belly suplex off the top rope now that would be a hell of a finisher. Unfortunately Vince wants the guys to be his and takes away their originality half the time. I liked the Anaconda Vise too. I wonder why Punk stopped using it. He should use both as finishers. Kennedy needs to go back to the Green Bay Plunge. The Mic Check is awful and also very generic and its one of those moves they give anyone who doesn't have a finisher, except Cody Rhodes.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

See now if it were me, i'd be starting off in the indy circuit by having a double arm ddt as my signature move and then a stunner as my finisher, but not just with a kick to the mid section then a 3/4 facelock, but maybe an osaka street cutter, where you lift your opponent over your shoulder and when they land then stun them! Or put their feet on the top rope like Orton does for his elevated DDT and then stun them that way. Simple variations of a recognised move. Then if i ever got to WWE and they said 'you gotta change you finisher, can't have you rippin' off Stone Cold,' then i'd be whippin out the Orange Crush pin on foo's....... Aaaaaaaawwwwwwww yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!! (Look it up)

 

[shalliin]

Or put their feet on the top rope like Orton does for his elevated DDT and then stun them that way.

So you would do the move that Kevin thorn was using during his last bit of time in ECW? Everyone and there brother does variations on cutters now. Before Stone Cold they were called jawbreakers and hadn't won a match for about 30 years. So good luck with that. You might have a career as long as his.

Edge- started out in the brood with amove called 'downward spyral' (it had that spelling when written, think side russian leglock, but with face towards made, was later modified into the complete shot, cool shot, jihad driver and a host of others Other main user at time was Kanyon who called his 'The Flatliner'), then started used the Edgucution (facebuster ddt) and for a short time had a submission move that was like a side angled sharpshooter called the Edgucator. He also had the Edge o'Matic (standing chin lock pulling head back into a man slam, sometime with a leg hook for a pin) And how he does the Spear. One of most common and overused moves since the mid 90's.

Batista - the sit down PowerBomb is okay, and he dits a solid spear, but for his PB, should do the ahmed johnson's pearl river plunge style. A double underhook into the sitdown looks more impressive then the one he does.

Big Show- yes his is a choekslam, but there is some variation in how he does it. His is a kneeling choke. While bringint the person down, he drops to one knee, making it look like he is pushing down with his weight and not just dropping the guy like most do. Only Taker and Kane right now seem to be putting some impact into the move others just lift, position and let go. Big also sometimes uses something called 'final curtain' which was a slight variation on Hurricane's 'Eye of the hurricane.'. Set up like a reverse ddt, then you twist and drive down with your elbow on the other guys chest.

Jericho- no matter what they say and how much they push it, jericho is not doing the 'walls of jericho'. he is doing a boston crab. the proper walls of jericho had jericho standing, with one knee into the victim's back and twisted a bit to the side. that sit down on the back and pull straight back on the legs is a BOSTON CRAB.

I could go one through the entire roster, but I'm sure you see my point.

WWE has a lot of rules when it comes to some moves because they've lost a lot of time and money due to injuries from improperly done moves. SC Austin might still be wrestling if it wasn't for a botched piledriver done during a match with Owen Hart. Similar stories go with others and that is why the WWE is weary about high impact moves that involve any type of compression to the neck. Nearly all the major starts in the last 10 yrs have had severe and potentially career or life ending injuries because of some of these moves. promising talent have lost there lives and others have been paralyzed due to sloppy or inattentive working by various wrestlers. that's why you don't see things like the vertebreaker, pepsi plunge, and other forms that have a lot of direct neck impact.

As for duplicate moves, no one ever really says anything. let's look a few years ago. WWE had Bubba Dudley, Randy Orton, Stone Cold, Hardy boyz, that were all doing the same move. It was just the set up that was different. Auston drops to his butt, Hardy's set up by a ddt stance then twist and drop pulled chin and face down to shoulder, Bubba stuttered his step with a standing snap mare position, and Randy does a run up leap. But all result in a basic jawbreaker.

The same could be said for HHH. His pedigree is an overrated and emphasized version of the facebuster used then by RVD (hold vertical for a few seconds before dropping down), Sabu (arabian facebuster), and others, and now used in TNA by Kong (split legged underhook facebuster), Chirstopher Daniels (angel wings, split legged sit down double underhook facebuster)

All the same move but with the right placement and hype by the announcers, one is a finisher and legendary move, and others are solid high impact moves.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

So you would do the move that Kevin thorn was using during his last bit of time in ECW? Everyone and there brother does variations on cutters now. Before Stone Cold they were called jawbreakers and hadn't won a match for about 30 years. So good luck with that. You might have a career as long as his.

Are you insinuating that Stone Cold became the top draw in WWE for using a jawbreaker as his finisher? Because if you are then that's the most ******ed thing i think i've ever read in this forum.

Hulk Hogan has had a 20 year career with a leg drop as his finisher, and Ric Flair went 30 years with a Figure Four leg lock, but that's not why they were so beloved by wrestling fans.

Also, they didn't stop referring to it as a jawbreaker because of Austin. The term stunner/cutter apparently came about due to Mikey Whipwreck changing the cutter to a stunner or 'Whippersnapper' while Austin was still using the Stun Gun as his finisher. Whether that's true or not i don't know, but i do know that Whipwreck definitely used the stunner before Austin, so it definitely didn't come about because of Austin.

My previous point, while not being relevant to the thread, was that I wouldn't do that particular variation all the time, i'd use multiple variations to liven it up, to make it seem i could hit the move from any position at any given time, to give it that level of spontaneity.

Finishing moves don't make wrestlers a draw, but thanks for wishing me luck anyway.

Finally, i've never watched Kevin Thorn wrestle so i wouldn't know what his finisher was.

 

[K Bro 30]

I have to agree. You look at wrestlers who have succeeded, it was never really a special move. It all comes down to the charisma with which they perform it. Hogan had a leg drop, oh wow. But he made it work by Hulking up to lead up to it, twirling his hand and playing to the crowd.

The Rock had an elbow drop. But because he throws off his wrist band and runs around the ring, it's a better move? No. It's still an elbow drop, but the crowd gets into it.

I think finishing moves are over-rated, it does not matter what move you have, it matters how the wrestler pumps the crowd for it. (Although in all fairness, I miss the vertebreaker)

 

[Markster]

Wrestlers really shouldnt share finishers. A finishing move should be exciting and if 2-3 people use the same finisher it kind of waters it down.

Remember the time when almost everyone could use the opponents' finishers? (Stunners, Sharpshooter, Ankle Lock, etc) It makes for markout moment if it's once or twice. But when we keep seeing the Crippler's Crossface, it loses its uniqueness.

We can always argue that everyone could clothesline his opponents but Bradshaw's is more devastating. But having two wrestlers trading signature moves / finishers of one another too often doesn't work.

In today's wrestling, there is almost no finisher that guarantees a victory. People have got up from / got out of the Pedigree, Sweet Chin Music, Batista Bomb, etc.

How would you feel if a main event ended with a suplex? Would that be a welcomed change?

 

[shalliin]

Are you insinuating that Stone Cold became the top draw in WWE for using a jawbreaker as his finisher? Because if you are then that's the most ******ed thing i think i've ever read in this forum.

Hulk Hogan has had a 20 year career with a leg drop as his finisher, and Ric Flair went 30 years with a Figure Four leg lock, but that's not why they were so beloved by wrestling fans.

Also, they didn't stop referring to it as a jawbreaker because of Austin. The term stunner/cutter apparently came about due to Mikey Whipwreck changing the cutter to a stunner or 'Whippersnapper' while Austin was still using the Stun Gun as his finisher. Whether that's true or not i don't know, but i do know that Whipwreck definitely used the stunner before Austin, so it definitely didn't come about because of Austin.

My previous point, while not being relevant to the thread, was that I wouldn't do that particular variation all the time, i'd use multiple variations to liven it up, to make it seem i could hit the move from any position at any given time, to give it that level of spontaneity.

Finishing moves don't make wrestlers a draw, but thanks for wishing me luck anyway.

Finally, i've never watched Kevin Thorn wrestle so i wouldn't know what his finisher was.

I never said that austin wouldn't have been as popular or anything to go against his talent or his career. What i was saying is that the idea that only 1 person using a move and no one else being allowed to use anything similar is stupid. It's long been established that Jake 'The Snake' Roberts invented the DDT, but now it's become a move that is used by anyone during a match when they need a breather. There's been dozen's of variations on it now, but it all goes back to Jake.
I'm saying that just because you give something a fancy name doesn't make it any more or less then what it is. Austin's Stunner became the move it's thought of because of his charisma and attitude. He could have used anything as his finisher and he would have still been the same person he became. I was trying to give a possible explanation for why certain moves are restricted and why you don't see some of the really and truly amazing finishers that wrestlers have used, as well as indicating that the argument that the reason that some don't use certain finishers is because of some kind of 1move/1wrestler attitude is invalid.
Jawbreakers were and are most commonly refered to when the move is used face to face, and often the impact point is top of head to bottom of chin. Stunner's and Cutter's, RKO's etc... impact is shoulder.
It is the charisma and attitude of the wrestler that creates the move, not the other way around. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

 

[shalliin]

I have to agree. You look at wrestlers who have succeeded, it was never really a special move. It all comes down to the charisma with which they perform it. Hogan had a leg drop, oh wow. But he made it work by Hulking up to lead up to it, twirling his hand and playing to the crowd.

The Rock had an elbow drop. But because he throws off his wrist band and runs around the ring, it's a better move? No. It's still an elbow drop, but the crowd gets into it.

I think finishing moves are over-rated, it does not matter what move you have, it matters how the wrestler pumps the crowd for it. (Although in all fairness, I miss the vertebreaker)

At least you got the point I was trying to make. It's not the move that is important, but the charisma of the wrestler doing the move. So even though you could have 3 different people doing similar moves, the way that those individuals personalize it with the set up to draw in the crowd is the more important part of a finisher. Just look at all the variations of powerbombs being used by so many wrestlers. Any one could do a sit down powerbomb, but if Batisita does it, it is a completely different move.

And just to make it clear, I am also not disparaging Kevin Thorn. I liked his look when he was the vampire gimmick, and the run he had earlier was too badly done as Mordecai, it's just that the last few matches I saw he was using a move where he would set up the opponent's legs on the ropes near the corner and pull down into an Austin style stunner.

 

[ChrisJerichoFanYTWOJAY]

There is an unwritten law in professional wrestling that you dont take another person's move unless they give you permission. I read a blog from Gregory Helms about how pissed he was just because he wasn't on tv anymore because of his broken neck that Jericho took his finisher. I understand where Helms is coming from cause you would be pissed to if you were using something and just because something terrible happened and your not on tv for a while it gets used by someone else. Now when Helms comes back he has to either use the same finisher and risk people saying "oh look he is copying Jericho" or go back to an old finisher or come up with a new one.