Lesnar and Jericho altercation

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Anyone who thinks Lesnar's attack on Orton was legitimate is an idiot. I am surprised Jericho fell for it, but then again not surprised if that 'conflict' was a work. Lesnar would destroy Jericho within a matter of seconds...

For real. I can't believe there are that many marks left out there. Lesnar busted Cena's head open in his first match back in 2012, the same way he did to Orton. Only difference is that that happened in the beginning of the match, and Cena ended up winning. This time, its what caused the end of the match. But at the end of the day, Lesnar drawing blood on someone via elbows is not a new thing. And other than the two elbows, the rest of the punches were pulled, it was obvious that it was a work.

I love how everyone is hating on Brock. Because thats the point. They have the most legitimate Monster Heel they've ever had, and its all BELIEVABLE.

As for Jericho, I think he knew it was planned but wanted to hear that from management, the same management that has a "no blood" rule for everyone else. Batista violated that rule in a match AGAINST Jericho, and was fined 100K, so Jericho has an interest in this topic. And yes, he'd get destroyed, I don't care that he held Goldberg in a headlock until the skirmish could be broken up. I don't think he was looking for a confrontation w/ Brock, its just that as he was yelling at management, Brock came through the curtain and assumed Jericho was pissed at him.

 

[Navi]

I love how everyone is hating on Brock. Because thats the point. They have the most legitimate Monster Heel they've ever had, and its all BELIEVABLE.

I don't think people are hating on him because he is a monster heel that is as you say believable. They are hating because Sunday night's match like all other Lesnar matches was the same. Suplex after suplex, F5, a few knees to the stomach and some shoulderblades to the midsection.

In short Lesnar, monster that he is, has become predictable in the ring and his matches are well in a word boring. The only excitement generated is when the other guy manages to get in a shot or two, in this case Orton got an RKO in. Otherwise it is usually a squash.

Myself, I'm glad he only shows up a few times a year because I couldn't watch that every single week. I saw him in person at Roadblock and he did the same thing there to Harper. After a huge ovation when he came out, the match was over in no time. Honestly his matches aren't that entertaining.

Not to mention Heyman who is gold on the mic, is also getting tiring with what sounds like the same promo over and over again. Right now there is no one in the WWE who can stand up to Lesnar and beat him and make it look believable. He is like a man without a challenger and they are just filling space until one comes along.

 

[LascoX]

I haven't gone back to watch the match in slow motion to see if Brock opened up Randy legitimately or if this was a case of blading gone bad. Maybe they were being tight lipped back stage because they didn't want to admit they planned a bladed finish. That would explain why nobody was telling Jerico it was planned before the situation got heated.
Early on the announcer had said there would be blood tonight in that match so when Randy got busted open I wasn't all that surprised other than the sheer amount of blood in the ring. It would have helped defuse the situation had someone said right off the bat to Jerico that it was planned, but that would mean they would have to admit they were violating the company policy.
Hats off to Jerico for having the balls not to back down to Lezner, not many people would do that. It's not a bad thing in my mind he was showing concern for a fellow worker. Could this all be an elaborate way to set up for a Jerico / Lezner match at some point? Any things possible , this is the WWE we are talking about. Over all I thought the PPV was actually pretty good, The product these days is a lot better than it was a few years back. It helps that I don't take this shit to serious and just enjoy the show. Was there stuff that could have been done and timed better? Of course there was but its live , shit happens.

 

[stingray11214]

Jericho and Lesnar is the beginning of the manifestation of locker room resentment that is going to explode all over VKM's and Dunn's faces. Look, whether or not this was a work is immaterial. The fact is that it appeared that Randy was sandbagging Lesnar. Lesnar Went very strong on Orton. It pissed off the Senior Man in the locker room. And, we all know what happened next. Let's be real: Eva Marie, Paige, Adam Rose and Roman Reigns got suspended 30 days for a WWE Wellness Violation. Nevada just suspended Lesnar for 2 failed tests. Yet, Reigns lost his belt. Rose is now in the Indies, and Paige and Eva Marie lost a pay day. And, WWE STILL pushes Lesnar to the moon!

What is it going to take for WWE to hold EVERYONE into account regarding the Wellness Policy? What they SHOULD be doing is "You work for WWE? You collect a WWE check/ Fill the cup up to the line, please. That means EVERYONE! Trips. Shane, Stephanie AND Brock Lesnar. Unless they treat everyone on the same level playing field, stuff like this will happen more often. Are they waiting for Jack Swagger to be buried by Lesnar, only for Swagger to pull out a pair of brass knucks and a roll of quarters, and do some facial surgery on Lesnar? You can only shit on people so long until they are tired of looking at your ass opening, and the foul odor remaining on their persons.

This was all Lesnar getting his panties into a twist because some WWE regular DARED to care about what Lesnar did to his partner in the ring. The fact that VKM DEMANDED that JERICHO acted more professionally shows that VKM and the WWE did not learn a thing, nor could care less.

Oh, BTW, Stephanie's $500 "fine" is such an insult it is mindboggling. Ken Patera got fined FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS by the WWWF for beating up some schmuck on Championship Wrestling. Though it was kayfabe, it makes you still wonder why WWE are struggling to keep viewers.

 

[rge2010]

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

"Brock is not bigger than the company". Of course,he f...ing is.

If he wasn't, he wouldn't treat the WWE with such contempt again and again.

The fact is, Vince is Brock's bitch. Vince so wants Brock in WWE, and not in UFC, that he pays him more than anyone else, for wokring less dates. Many of the roster work 300 days a year, have to travel constantly and get paid less, and sometimes held down, while Brock cruises in, dominates everyone, puts no-one over, is given everything (including ending the streak) and yet he doesn't show WWE any appreciation, and acts above it all.

I think Brock Lesnar is a piece of shit. He got in a fight in his first stint, in the "Plane Flight From Hell" when he got in a fight with Mr Perfect. Hennig got fired, while Brock got nothing, despite the fact that both were equally to blame.

Brock got every achievement first time around, and then left, giving WWE little notice, failed at NFL, then became a UFC fighter, and then when he gets his ass handed to him in that, he struts back in, and demands a contract sided totally his way, and Vince is so shooting his load in excitement that he bends over to him. I'm surprised that Vince didn't stand over a toilet, so that Brock could flush his head down it as well.

Brock is known to be careless and clumsy with the talent. He almost hit Miz with a chair, broke Jamie Noble's arm, and then laughs about it. The real reason "Stone Cold" didn't do that match on Raw wasn't just it wasn't on PPV, but because Austin feared that Brock would injure him and hurt his neck again. No need to be paralysed because some oaf doesn't care if he injures his opponent for real.

I think Vince should stand up to Brock, and if Brock and Heyman walk, tell them "Good riddance". Never give Brock another cent, no HoF, no Legends contract. He no longer exists, according to WWE.

Hopefully, Brock gets four years from WADA for failing his drug test for UFC, so he can't do UFC, and then Vince tells Brock "work every Raw, house shows, appearances and every RAW PPV, or he can leave". Brock either accepts, or has nowhere to go, and hopefully eventually goes bankrupt, loses his farm, Sable walks out on him, and he and Heyman fall out. Then Brock might wake up and realize that this world does not revolve around him, and that to get things, he has to give and then give back.

If he failed a drug test in UFC, then maybe he is violating Wellness in WWE as well. But I bet Vince turns a blind eye. Yet even Roman Reigns gets suspended, yet I bet Brock never would.

Jericho doesn't need Vince or WWE. If he chose, he could tour with Fozzie, host a TV show, do radio or the numerous other mainstream jobs he has done outside of WWE. But at least Jericho gives back when he is in the company, (numerous doing jobs for new talent, being a company man, taking thumbtacks in the back in the Asylum Match). Can't see Brock doing any of that.

I am thinking of even buying WWE2K17 on digital download, so I don't have to see the cover with Brock's ugly, ape-like face.

I have had storylines in the video games, where Brock loses Last-Man-Standing Matches, and even yells "I Quit" with his little girl voice in "I Quit" Matches.

Many of the IWC love Brock, because he stands up to Vince, and Brock is as indifferent to WWE as many of the IWC are.

WWE needs both Jericho and Brock more than either of them need WWE. But the difference is, Jericho doesn't take advantage of that fact, and often comes back. He doesn't forget his "first love", whereas Brock only loves money and himself. Brock Lesnar can go to hell as far as I care.

Brock is not bigger than WWE. He is as well known as WWE and he isn't worth as much as WWE. So I guess you are saying WWE needs Lesnar to survive? They seemed to do just fine without him from 2004 -2012. Lesnar is probably finished with UFC so needs WWE more than they need him. That being said Lesnar is great for WWE in my opinion but they don't 'need him'.

And WWE does not need Chris Jericho. He is a B+ player about to hit retirement. He was NEVER, EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Hogan, Rock, Cena or Austins level.

 

[rge2010]

Brock knows he can do anything he wants, pushing the bloodspot when it wasn't planned (This is still speculation, but WWE is still avoiding blood, and Jerichos gotten "in trouble" when his opponent bleeds on him). Brocks untouchable, shows up 3 times a year to a bigger paycheck than the guys working 300 days a year (And half of them giving themselves injuries with the ludicrous House show count).

If you are going to debate please use facts. The whole 'Brock turns up 3 times a year' is a throw away comment and a bare faced lie.

Brock has wrestled at 5 PPV's this year.
Brock has wrestled at 3 Live Shows this year.
Brock has appeared on enough Raws and Smackdowns to promote his PPV matches.

Brock Lesnar is paid very well but he was offered and signed a part time contract. His career spans over 14 years, with an 8 year hiatus. He has wrestled at 45 PPV's with 33 of them being the Main Event. He ahs also wrestled 135 times on 'free tv'.

Brock has paid his dues.

 

[rge2010]

LOL at all these snarky Clowns in here talking shit about Jericho's credentials and actually seeming to be MAD at him. LMAO. Wow. Monumentally stupid shit in here, guys. I remember when one of the mods told me the level of discourse on this forum was meant to be kept at a high level. LOL. This shit getting to be trash now.

Jericho is the most experienced guy by far, an outspoken leader type, and truly cares about the business. And we've got idiots in here trashing him for that.

Sounds like it could've been cleared up real easily, and sounds like Brock was being an antagonizing bully ******** for no good reason, and things escalated. Whether Brock would've kicked his ass is irrelevant as to who was right or wrong. We already know Jericho isn't afraid of things like that based on him stepping to Goldberg in the past physically, stepping to HHH verbally, etc. He's always stood up for himself regardless. Some of y'all too meek and cowardly to understand that.

Jericho is a B+ at best. He doesn't draw like Lesnar. He is a has being.

There is no 'whether Brock would've kicked his ass' about it. He would destroy Jericho.

 

[Fisheatppl]

Jericho is a B+ at best. He doesn't draw like Lesnar. He is a has being.

There is no 'whether Brock would've kicked his ass' about it. He would destroy Jericho.

Of course he would destroy Jericho. But this isn't about who would draw how many or who is the better fighter. Whatever you think of Jericho he is well respected by the guys in the back, and without Taker there is the locker room leader. He did what he was supposed to do given the situation. He sees this part timer who has admitted he doesn't give a crap about the business taking it to his opponent so much that he thinks its gone off script and dangerous, and wants some answers. Taker would do the EXACT same thing in that situation if he were there. You know it, we all know it. So Jericho stepped up and did the right thing. Unfortunately its going to put him in a bad position with his boss, Vince, because Vince thinks he needs Brock so bad that even if Brock legit went off script and had hurt Randy on purpose, he will face no consequences from it.

 

[enviousdominous]

I'm on the side of; Chris overreacted.

Chris is probably a tried and true locker room general, but I don't see why everything that was planned would have to go through him.

It's a shame that we don't have video to analyze, but from what I've read Chris basically went full beast mode because he wasn't willing to wait for the production crew to finish filming backstage segments. Brock told Chris that it was none of his business, which is a pretty fair reaction to some apeshit spaz who demands that the world stop for him.

 

[Gallops77]

Jericho was pissed about the elbow that cut Randy Orton open. Jericho may be a part time guy (even though he's been back full time since what, before the Rumble?) but he's still a veteran and is a leader in the Raw locker room. Aside from Jericho, who really could take a leadership role? Rollins? Reigns?

Jericho didn't like that Lesnar hit Orton with a legit elbow that legit cut Orton open. From reports I've read, THAT wasn't a work. It was a botched elbow that caused the cut and profuse bleeding. It's something that could have seriously injured Orton.

Lesnar overreacted when Jericho said it was bullshit, thinking Jericho was saying the match was bullshit and not the one move.

I applaud Jericho for sticking up for one of the boys, opposed to sticking up for a true part timer who has said himself he doesn't care about the other guys, and literally clocks in, does his job, and clocks out. Jericho at least is there to help build talent and create great matches if he can.

I just hope Jericho called Lesnar a stupid idiot...

 

[LegendKiller97]

I'm on the side of; Chris overreacted.

Chris is probably a tried and true locker room general, but I don't see why everything that was planned would have to go through him.

It's a shame that we don't have video to analyze, but from what I've read Chris basically went full beast mode because he wasn't willing to wait for the production crew to finish filming backstage segments. Brock told Chris that it was none of his business, which is a pretty fair reaction to some apeshit spaz who demands that the world stop for him.

I don’t think he thought it had to go through him. It’s sounds like he was genuinely concerned about Randy getting busted open like that and wanted to make sure that it was a “work” and Lesnar didn’t just stiff Orton for the hell of it. When he wasn’t getting an answer on it, that seems to be what set him off. It sounds like a misunderstanding.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Let's face it. Brock is on borrowed time in WWE and Vince knows it... He's not going to allow anything to come between the money he can make from him in that time... He needs Brock as leverage to get any UFC deals going for guys like Connor or maybe Ronda...

Read Jericho's books and you'll get a good insight into his and Vince's relationship... he is one of the few guys who Vince respects enough to hear "no" from and they do fight occasionally. Vince going off on Jericho in front of Brock would most likely be a smokescreen...and perhaps a veiled barb at Trips for not dealing with it sooner, afterward he'd probably "get" why it happened and at worst respect that he takes his role, even if self imposed seriously as an elder statesman and protecting the boys.

Like it or not Jericho has become that defacto locker room leader and for a change he's pretty much a positive one. Not into the politics as much as Taker or the bullying like JBL. For all the "Brock could walk" stuff, Jericho could too and it would be damaging to WWE if he did, just as it was when Alberto was let go.

From the boys perspective, Jericho has gone after Goldberg and now Brock... it would make Jericho very hard to punish.

As for whether he had a "right" to barge down there... He saw something off... as many of us did. a stray elbow at best, at worst, Brock taking liberties and he's totally right to go and check on Randy, they're friends after all. Once Brock "started" then no way Jericho was going to back down... he took Goldberg down, he was more a striker... He'd get creamed with Brock... but he knows enough shoot from his short time with the Harts... That he apparently got Brock into the wall is pretty impressive "for a little man".

As for Brock's part... ultimately it will damage him in that he's coming dangerously close to the point where he is more trouble than he is worth. Between a drug failiure, seemingly being difficult off camera and now a loose cannon on it. It is unlikely he'll get another deal... It's interesting how Heyman fits into it all, as he would normally be the kind of guy to smooth this over pretty quickly. It'll also be interesting to see if they insist on drug testing Brock now... the roid rage theory holds some water...and if they can suspend him, they can suspend his money.

 

[HatchetMan84]

One thing that sort of gets me is how many people are so quick to say "Brock would have destroyed Jericho". Maybe he would have. Maybe he wouldn't have. Goldberg was supposed to be the biggest, toughest guy, etc., and "little man" Chris Jericho took him down and made him look plain silly. Now Brock is not your average Bear but we still don't know the extent of his real-life submission skills. Jericho trained in the dungeon. I would NEVER mess with any dungeon grads because they legit know how to stretch you.

Another thing to consider is that when people fought Brock Lesnar who were not afraid of him (Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Overeem, etcc), Brock had his ass whipped pretty handily for a guy who is so big and tough. Now granted those guys are elite martial artists but he has historically folded against opposition that is not "intimidated" or afraid of him. Jericho, pumped on anger for what he felt was disrespect to the "Boys", as well as being fueled on by a locker room that looks at him as their leader, and Jericho very well could have been the "David vs. Goliath" scenario.

Someone backstage at some point is bound to get the best of Brock, it is inevitable because as bad as you think you are, there is always someone badder. Wrestling is and has always been full of tough guys, and one, or maybe several will eventually get to him.

 

[rge2010]

One thing that sort of gets me is how many people are so quick to say "Brock would have destroyed Jericho". Maybe he would have. Maybe he wouldn't have. Goldberg was supposed to be the biggest, toughest guy, etc., and "little man" Chris Jericho took him down and made him look plain silly. Now Brock is not your average Bear but we still don't know the extent of his real-life submission skills. Jericho trained in the dungeon. I would NEVER mess with any dungeon grads because they legit know how to stretch you.

Another thing to consider is that when people fought Brock Lesnar who were not afraid of him (Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Overeem, etcc), Brock had his ass whipped pretty handily for a guy who is so big and tough. Now granted those guys are elite martial artists but he has historically folded against opposition that is not "intimidated" or afraid of him. Jericho, pumped on anger for what he felt was disrespect to the "Boys", as well as being fueled on by a locker room that looks at him as their leader, and Jericho very well could have been the "David vs. Goliath" scenario.

Someone backstage at some point is bound to get the best of Brock, it is inevitable because as bad as you think you are, there is always someone badder. Wrestling is and has always been full of tough guys, and one, or maybe several will eventually get to him.

Goldberg was a tough dude, but he was never ever a fighter. Brock is a fighter and there lies the difference.

And please FFS, the dungeon means absolutely nothing in terms of this. A dungeon graduate is taught how to put on submission moves to look real in a predetermined fight. Seriously....

 

[Navi]

Goldberg was a tough dude, but he was never ever a fighter. Brock is a fighter and there lies the difference.

And please FFS, the dungeon means absolutely nothing in terms of this. A dungeon graduate is taught how to put on submission moves to look real in a predetermined fight. Seriously....

Yes but what you seem to forget is this. The altercation happened backstage not in the ring. If Lesnar had started shit with Jericho, and seriously went to legit beat the crap out of him, you don't think that perhaps someone in a locker room full of wrestlers who would have jumped in to help Jericho out.

I'm no WWE insider but there must be more than one guy back there that wouldn't mind one bit if they could take a lump or two out of Lesnar. I mean shit the guy shows up what 6 times a year to wrestle and gets paid 10x's more than the rest who bust their asses.

Lesnar might be a God to some, but as a fan I'm tired of his matches, and maybe some who sit there in silence are just waiting for their shot.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The match looked like a work. All of it. The sharp elbow to the head was set up by both guys. It was perfect. One quick, clean hit. Then punching Orton's shoulders. Watch Roddy Piper punch Goldust in the face at Wrestlemania 12 on the car if you want to see a brutal punch. Watch Fit Finlay punch Regal directly in the face at Uncensored 1996 if you want to see something that may or may not have been rough on purpose. Brock/Orton was very good and very worked.

Surely Jericho could see it was a work too.

 

[HatchetMan84]

Goldberg was a tough dude, but he was never ever a fighter. Brock is a fighter and there lies the difference.

And please FFS, the dungeon means absolutely nothing in terms of this. A dungeon graduate is taught how to put on submission moves to look real in a predetermined fight. Seriously....

I agree with your post but you have to remember Stu Hart in his 70's making grown men cry with his "predetermined" holds. Wrestling with Shadows showed some of it. Like Bret or not, but all of the Harts were tough and could scrap.

Wrestling is / was full of tough dudes. Dynamite Kid, while having no "legitimate" fighting training could have probably beaten the shit out of Brock whenever he wanted to. How about Meng? Brock would stand no chance against either guy if they were still around now. But the difference is Lesnar wouldn't try that shit if he didn't feel he was the alpha dog right now in the locker room. If Taker was around it would have never happened, because Brock knows in the back of his mind Taker could whoop him. I don't think i've ever heard one story that hasn't painted Taker as one of the people you generally shouldn't try.

Up until this point nobody has challenged him back. I'm telling you right now Brock put on a front of looking tough in front of the other wrestlers when Jericho got up with him, but i'm sure his confidence was affected. The minute Jericho got him against the wall his piss probably ran cold because he isn't, and has never been a guy who can fight well when someone isn't afraid of him. He will be looking over his shoulder the rest of his WWE run because as someone else pointed out, someone, or someone and their buddies will eventually get him the next time he tries his BS

 

[Mitch Henessey]

It's easy to see why a lot of people would side with Jericho. He's a respected veteran, who's passionate about wrestling, and when it comes to putting others over, he always does the right thing (for the love all things holy, the man took a clean pinfall loss to Fandango at Wrestlemania).

Brock Lesnar is genuinely a mercenary. He works a part time schedule, makes big paychecks, and he's consistently pushed into big feuds and he consistently main events pay per views. The perception of Brock is the guy is kind of a dick in real life, so of course more people will side with Jericho's stance.

Reading the story about how it all went down, it just sounds like two grown men had a heated argument with some physical contact, and nobody wanted to back down. Stuff like that happens, but it's a big deal, because it's Brock Lesnar and Chris Jericho.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Brock would destroy Jericho if this was a sanctioned fight in an octagon, but a street fight in close quarters there is no telling who would win. I would imagine Brock but Jericho has a big catch wrestling background so he could very well hold his own against him in an environment like that.

I went to the same High School as Steve Fraser, who was an Olympic Gold medalist in Greco Roman wrestling in I believe the 198 weight class in 1984. Anyway he was a big shot around my small town, and he would go to our wrestling practices in 1996 and try to do take downs with us and a few times this one guy beat him. Were talking about an Olympic Gold medalist who was only about 30 at the time got beat by a High School kid more than one time. Also I witnessed him get his ass handed to him a few years before that in a street fight. Moral of the story is that I personally have witnessed a world class wrestler like Brock lose a fight to a lesser opponent so I wouldn't just completely write Jericho out.

 

[Gallops77]

Brock would destroy Jericho if this was a sanctioned fight in an octagon, but a street fight in close quarters there is no telling who would win. I would imagine Brock but Jericho has a big catch wrestling background so he could very well hold his own against him in an environment like that.

I went to the same High School as Steve Fraser, who was an Olympic Gold medalist in Greco Roman wrestling in I believe the 198 weight class in 1984. Anyway he was a big shot around my small town, and he would go to our wrestling practices in 1996 and try to do take downs with us and a few times this one guy beat him. Were talking about an Olympic Gold medalist who was only about 30 at the time got beat by a High School kid more than one time. Also I witnessed him get his ass handed to him a few years before that in a street fight. Moral of the story is that I personally have witnessed a world class wrestler like Brock lose a fight to a lesser opponent so I wouldn't just completely write Jericho out.

Steve Fraser is a world class wrestler. Brock Lesnar is not only a world class wrestler, he's also a former UFC Champion. He's a trained fighter. He has trained to punch harder. To fight off his back. He's also got at least 50 pounds of Jericho.

Jericho is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, but Lesnar would maul him. His size, strength, amateur wrestling ability and TRAINED fighting ability is way too much for Jericho to overcome.

How many MMA fighters do you hear of getting their asses kicked in a bar fight? Nick Diaz just beat the shit out of someone who tried to mess with him last week. He fought FOUR men and won. Nick Diaz weighs maybe 180-190 when not in fighting shape. Imagine Brock Lesnar who's 6'3" 280 pounds.

Jericho may be tough, but tough only gets you so far. As soon as Lesnar gets his hands on him, Lesnar destroys him.

 

[rmp0012002]

Brock would definitely crush Jericho but if you never stand up that person will always treat you that way. I think Brock is a simple quiet guy in real life but he works for two organizations where you have to have the mindset of an badass. I'm guessing Brock has more respect for Jericho now but his character doesn't allow him to say it.