Jozy Altidore

[FromTheSouth]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090817

Bill Simmons inspired this post. I suggest reading the article above. It is great writing, and will provide some context for my writing.


Soccer has never been number one in America, and it has reached its highest point in our consciousness at number four. I am a reformed soccer disenthusiast. I used to hate the game, make fun of my friends for playing or watching it, and just detest the culture of burned out losers who thought they were too cool to play football, but in fact weren't tough enough. My how times have changed. I love the "beautiful game." I enjoy a one nil game as much as I do an 80 point NCAA football shootout.....well, not quite that much, but you get my point.

My team brings me pride. Manchester United excited me. Ibrahimovich impresses me. I want Steven Gerrard to be the captain of every team I watch. But no one, and I mean no one, excites me more than Jozy Altidore.

I have often said that America would be the best soccer team in the world if not for basketball, football, and baseball, the sports that our best athletes play. Finally, we have a Kobe/LeBron/Vince type athlete playing soccer. The kid is a better athlete than everyone else on the pitch in most matches. He is in the Premier League at 19, will be a European star in two years, and is the missing piece of the puzzle for Team USA. Landon Donovan is an exciting playmaker. Ogechi Onyewu is a bonafide stopper. Tim Howard is top five at his position in the world. We have the supporting players who will be world wide stars as long as they follow the savior of American soccer, Jozy Altidore. Adu is a bust, but "the other kid" from our recent exciting junior team is the real deal. I saw Altidore's goal against Spain. It was like he was the only man on the pitch. He overpowered a world class defender, made the agile trap, and then with a mixture of power, accuracy, timing, and that special X factor that guys like LeBron and Hakeem Olajuwon and Kobe Bryant have in the big moment, he announced his presence, and the rise of the Americans. Iker Casillas could only watch as a once desperate squad of rag tags rose into the conversation. The Americans are by no means the favorites in 2010, not even close, but they are in the room. They will have their say. The European teams are dominant, the African teams are on the rise, and South America will not die without notice. But the Americans, on the back of Altidore (and the legs of Donovan, the chest of Onyewu and the hands of Howard) are now something to behold.

It is OK to meet this assertion with skepticism. I can hear the snickers from my British friends. That's OK. This kid makes it OK. This kid makes me confident. And, if he has that effect on me, what effect does he have on Brian McBride. Can Charlie Davies make that pass now? Will that one opening now result in a goal? Will Altidore go up in the air and make our corners and set plays useful? I don't know, but I hope. Hope is something we have never had. Will a trip to the quarters result in surprise this time, or will it result in expectation? Could we win and make the semis? or the finals? or win it all? You can say no, but you can no longer say it with a measure of certainty. We beat number one Spain, and we had Brazil on the ropes in the Confed Cup. This is the best team we have ever had, because we have the best player we have ever had...Jozy Altidore.

 

[SK]

It is OK to meet this assertion with skepticism. I can hear the snickers from my British friends. That's OK. This kid makes it OK. This kid makes me confident. And, if he has that effect on me, what effect does he have on Brian McBride. Can Charlie Davies make that pass now? Will that one opening now result in a goal? Will Altidore go up in the air and make our corners and set plays useful? I don't know, but I hope. Hope is something we have never had. Will a trip to the quarters result in surprise this time, or will it result in expectation? Could we win and make the semis? or the finals? or win it all? You can say no, but you can no longer say it with a measure of certainty. We beat number one Spain, and we had Brazil on the ropes in the Confed Cup. This is the best team we have ever had, because we have the best player we have ever had...Jozy Altidore.

I won't be meeting this with scepticism or snickering at all, it's a perfectly well though out and rational post. Anyway onto the topic at hand, Jozy Altidore, I agree he's a brilliant prospect, he's quick, he's tall, he can finish and he's still only 19. On his début for Hull he acrobatically assisted Ghilas to give Hull the win, that one through ball showed signs of great promise, even throughout that game he looked good even coming close a few times.

Jozy Altidore may well be the best football player to come out of the states, but I don't think we can call him that just yet, the states have had a few good players like Lalas, Pope and even Donovan, all were very good but had one problem in common, they couldn't cut it abroad. Dempsey, Howard, Freidel & co. have found some success in the premier league, with Dempsey being America's best player ever at the moment. Now if Jozy is going to take the mantle of best American player ever, unfortunately for you yanks, that means he's going to have to come to England, the premier league and show that he can hang with the big boys.

As for the national team, Jozy is the perfect player to play off someone like Brian McBride, who will win the ball in the air the majority on the time, giving the lightening quick Altidore the chance to make runs off him. The USA team is certainly improving with players like Dempsey, Bradley, Onyewu and obviously Altidore. If all these players perform at the next world cup, I don't see why the USA couldn't make it to at least the quaters.

Overall this was a good thread, nice to see that some Amercians care and are excited about football. I like Jozy Altidore and hope he succeeds, he just needs toprove he can score goals in the premier league, he's got all the other essential qualities which may make him the best player America has ever had.

 

[Tastycles]

I'm going to break it down because I'm at work and if I do it point by point, I won't make mistakes, it isn't because I'm picking an argument.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090817

Bill Simmons inspired this post. I suggest reading the article above. It is great writing, and will provide some context for my writing.

I felt the article got ahead of itself a little. Mexico are notoriously worse than they should be because the team has a lot of stalwarts who politick their way into the first team - they have had 5 players reach over 100 caps this decade. To put that into context, England have had 5 ever.

Soccer has never been number one in America, and it has reached its highest point in our consciousness at number four. I am a reformed soccer disenthusiast. I used to hate the game, make fun of my friends for playing or watching it, and just detest the culture of burned out losers who thought they were too cool to play football, but in fact weren't tough enough. My how times have changed. I love the "beautiful game." I enjoy a one nil game as much as I do an 80 point NCAA football shootout.....well, not quite that much, but you get my point.

Football appears to be the sport for people who are shit at sport in America, in the same way that cricket is here, for the most part.

My team brings me pride. Manchester United excited me. Ibrahimovich impresses me. I want Steven Gerrard to be the captain of every team I watch. But no one, and I mean no one, excites me more than Jozy Altidore.

That's quite natural. I rate Craig Bellamy far more than I should because he is from the same country as me. The thing you should be weary though is that building up Altidore is in serious danger of being the next Freddy Adu.

I have often said that America would be the best soccer team in the world if not for basketball, football, and baseball, the sports that our best athletes play.

I have believed that you will be anyway for quite some time. As soon as you win a tournament/get to the World Cup semis, the fact that there are actually other countries to compete against will boost its popularity.

Finally, we have a Kobe/LeBron/Vince type athlete playing soccer. The kid is a better athlete than everyone else on the pitch in most matches.

He's quite good, but he's certainly not in that sort of league. Altidore has scored 24 in 62, which isn't bad for a young striker. However, when you consider that 20 of those goals came against MLS teams, Trinidad and Tobago, Cuba, El Salvador and that his Premiership and La Liga goals were against the weakest teams in the leagues, it doesn't look impressive. Compare that to, say, Alexandre Pato (vastly overrated, but considered an excitning youth. He has scored 44 in 99 against much better opposition, which is a better ratio in the first place. Based on that, I wouldn't say he was that incredible a prospect.

He is in the Premier League at 19, will be a European star in two years, and is the missing piece of the puzzle for Team USA. Landon Donovan is an exciting playmaker. Ogechi Onyewu is a bonafide stopper.

I sincerely doubt he'll ever reached heights much higher than he's at now. There's no way if any of the big clubs thought he had potential to be a top striker in Europe in two years that he'd be on his way to Hull next season permanently for £6 million. Also, you missed Dempsey who is by far the best American footballer.

Tim Howard is top five at his position in the world.

No. Off the top of my head Cech, Reina, van der Sar, Cudicini, Friedel, Jaaskelainen, Schwarzer, Given, Green and maybe Jensen are all better than him in the Premier League. He's better than all but one English keeper though.

We have the supporting players who will be world wide stars as long as they follow the savior of American soccer, Jozy Altidore. Adu is a bust, but "the other kid" from our recent exciting junior team is the real deal. I saw Altidore's goal against Spain. It was like he was the only man on the pitch. He overpowered a world class defender, made the agile trap, and then with a mixture of power, accuracy, timing, and that special X factor that guys like LeBron and Hakeem Olajuwon and Kobe Bryant have in the big moment, he announced his presence, and the rise of the Americans. Iker Casillas could only watch as a once desperate squad of rag tags rose into the conversation.

Two things:
1) Do not underestimate the lack of enthusiasm for that competition displayed by Spain.
2) Do not forget that Adu is the cautionary tale here.

The Americans are by no means the favorites in 2010, not even close, but they are in the room. They will have their say. The European teams are dominant, the African teams are on the rise, and South America will not die without notice. But the Americans, on the back of Altidore (and the legs of Donovan, the chest of Onyewu and the hands of Howard) are now something to behold.

Quarter finalists. Round of 8 or something you probably call it.

It is OK to meet this assertion with skepticism. I can hear the snickers from my British friends. That's OK. This kid makes it OK. This kid makes me confident.

I disagree, but I'm not laughing at you. It's a valid opinion that I disagree with. I would have, and did, laugh at anyone who creamed their pants over Freddy Adu 5 years ago, but not here.

And, if he has that effect on me, what effect does he have on Brian McBride. Can Charlie Davies make that pass now? Will that one opening now result in a goal? Will Altidore go up in the air and make our corners and set plays useful? I don't know, but I hope.

It isn't going to make McBride any younger and it isn't going to make Davies any better. Maybe, you'll score more, but Altidore really hasn't been tested against anyone good yet. I know he scored against Spain, but they clearly didn't give a fuck about the match.

Hope is something we have never had. Will a trip to the quarters result in surprise this time, or will it result in expectation? Could we win and make the semis? or the finals? or win it all? You can say no, but you can no longer say it with a measure of certainty. We beat number one Spain, and we had Brazil on the ropes in the Confed Cup. This is the best team we have ever had, because we have the best player we have ever had...Jozy Altidore.

Hope is a good thing. I expect the USA to reach the quarters and I wouldn't want them in England's group. Wouldn't want them in Wales' group either, but that isn't going to happen. I wouldn't be shocked if they made the semis, there's often a weaker side who make it there - Turkey, South Korea, Bulgaria etc. - however, I sincerely doubt they'd get any further.

One man doesn't make a team, ask Ryan Giggs, but you do have some quality in the side. Dempsey is the best American I've ever seen, probably, and Donovan is certainly quite good. However, the ease with which Brazil demolished the US in the final once they got going should only serve to prove that the US are not at the top level yet.

 

[gd]

I read that article last week, it's a great article. I agree that if soccer was as popular as sports like basketball, football, and baseball in the US, then we'd be pretty damn good. Just a small example, but the two top soccer players in my high school last year are pursuing basketball and track respectively in college. They are both actually better at soccer, but for whatever reason, chose no to pursue.

As for Altidore, I haven't watched many US soccer matches, but he has been very impressive. I agree copmletely with what Simmons said in the article of Altidore being the only one who is a threat in our "kick the ball as far as you can" offense. He's an awesome athelete, and if he gets some experience in Europe, I think he can be great.

I don't think we'll win the World Cup this year, but if soccer keeps moving in the right direction, we could be legitimate contenders sometime in the not so distant future.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I'm going to break it down because I'm at work and if I do it point by point, I won't make mistakes, it isn't because I'm picking an argument.

I think we may stay even tempered for once. This could be nice.

I felt the article got ahead of itself a little. Mexico are notoriously worse than they should be because the team has a lot of stalwarts who politick their way into the first team - they have had 5 players reach over 100 caps this decade. To put that into context, England have had 5 ever.

True. But Mexico has only lost five matches all time at Azteca in cup qualifying. We were walking into a firefight, and for once, we came in gins blazing.

Football appears to be the sport for people who are shit at sport in America, in the same way that cricket is here, for the most part.

Not exactly. I think our best athletes are football players. Everyone specializes. 300 pound men have to be track fast to compete. 180 pound men have to be weightlifter strong to compete. It consists of every athletic talent possible, and everyone has to be able to do them all.

That's quite natural. I rate Craig Bellamy far more than I should because he is from the same country as me. The thing you should be weary though is that building up Altidore is in serious danger of being the next Freddy Adu.

The thing is, Altidore has already surpassed everything Ade will ever do in the game. Adu is a bust, Altidore ir a rising star. Even if he never gets better, he is something special, a threat the Americans have never had. I agree with you that Dempsey is our best player. That I will gladly grant you. He is my favorite player too.

I have believed that you will be anyway for quite some time. As soon as you win a tournament/get to the World Cup semis, the fact that there are actually other countries to compete against will boost its popularity.

I agree with this. I think that nothing gains fans like winning. The sport is taking off right now. ESPN has been shoving soccer down our throats for the last 15 years. Now they carry Premier, Champions, La Liga, and Euro, as well as the Cup, and it draws ratings. MLS draws ratings finally. Soccer is upwardly mobile. I got caught up in the fire, and I love soccer now.

He's quite good, but he's certainly not in that sort of league. Altidore has scored 24 in 62, which isn't bad for a young striker.

He's 19. I would reserve judgment until he turns 23, but I like what I see.

However, when you consider that 20 of those goals came against MLS teams, Trinidad and Tobago, Cuba, El Salvador

He can only play the teams put in front of him. EPL would give him more of a challenge.

and that his Premiership and La Liga goals were against the weakest teams in the leagues, it doesn't look impressive. Compare that to, say, Alexandre Pato (vastly overrated, but considered an excitning youth. He has scored 44 in 99 against much better opposition, which is a better ratio in the first place. Based on that, I wouldn't say he was that incredible a prospect.

Americans never get to play in Europe, now we have five. He is the most promising of them. Dempsey is still the best. Let Altidore become a man and we'll see what he has.

I sincerely doubt he'll ever reached heights much higher than he's at now. There's no way if any of the big clubs thought he had potential to be a top striker in Europe in two years that he'd be on his way to Hull next season permanently for £6 million. Also, you missed Dempsey who is by far the best American footballer.

I think European clubs are reluctant to take American prodigies because of the bust that Adu is. I think he'll get better and move to a London team in two years, when he's still only 21.

I didn't forget Demspey, he is my favorite. Altidore excites me for the future, and I was commenting on the Simmons article.

No. Off the top of my head Cech, Reina, van der Sar, Cudicini, Friedel, Jaaskelainen, Schwarzer, Given, Green and maybe Jensen are all better than him in the Premier League. He's better than all but one English keeper though.

I'll take your word for it. I'm repeating what I heard form the famous British announcer who is on the FIFA games.

Two things:
1) Do not underestimate the lack of enthusiasm for that competition displayed by Spain.

I wouldn't call it a loss of enthusiasm, so much as a loss of focus. The Spanish had those two unbelievable streaks to protect.

2) Do not forget that Adu is the cautionary tale here.

I won't.

Quarter finalists. Round of 8 or something you probably call it.

Quarterfinals is right. We got to the round of eight in 2002. I am hoping we can improve on that.

I disagree, but I'm not laughing at you. It's a valid opinion that I disagree with. I would have, and did, laugh at anyone who creamed their pants over Freddy Adu 5 years ago, but not here.

I laughed at Adu too. Altidore just seems to have it. When I watched Adu, I never saw what the big deal was. When I see Altidore, I don't know what it is, but I have to watch, and American soccer has never had that person.

It isn't going to make McBride any younger and it isn't going to make Davies any better.

True about McBride. I think he does make Davies better. He is someone for Davies to run with. Too often Davies runs or dribbles into traffic because there is no one there with him. Now Altidore can take a defender on the wing, and Donovan can run up the middle. It makes them all better.

Maybe, you'll score more,

We lose so many 1-0 games, I'll take that.

but Altidore really hasn't been tested against anyone good yet. I know he scored against Spain, but they clearly didn't give a fuck about the match.

I disagree here. You don't have to be the best team in the world to win, just the best in the stadium, and on that one day, we were better. I think that Altidore's progress will be better measured in the EPL, yes, but I think he's good enough to make a difference against any team in the world.

Hope is a good thing. I expect the USA to reach the quarters and I wouldn't want them in England's group. Wouldn't want them in Wales' group either, but that isn't going to happen. I wouldn't be shocked if they made the semis, there's often a weaker side who make it there - Turkey, South Korea, Bulgaria etc. - however, I sincerely doubt they'd get any further.

England is my number two, Germany is my number three. I don't want to play either of those teams. If we could avoid a group with Ghana, The Czechs and the Italians again, that would be a nice start. Quarters would be good, semis would be great for American soccer, finals would be amazing, a win would be bad for baseball. I expect quarters, and we could never expect anything like that before, and that is definitely good for American soccer, and FIFA as a whole. Opening up this market in its enitrety to soccer is the best thing that can happen nationally and internationally.

One man doesn't make a team, ask Ryan Giggs, but you do have some quality in the side. Dempsey is the best American I've ever seen, probably, and Donovan is certainly quite good. However, the ease with which Brazil demolished the US in the final once they got going should only serve to prove that the US are not at the top level yet.

We were up 2-0 against Brazil, and then they turned it on, without Ronaldinho. I will grant that we aren't on that level, but I believe that we deserve a top 8 international record, and that is definitely something.