It's time to go head to head with the WWE!

CCIV

Guest
I see what's being written. I listen to the podcasts. Everyone has ideas, everyone wants a better product. Yet the ratings are falling week after week. I use to believe it wasn't a big deal but I'm starting to feel that if BIG change doesn't happen soon we may actually lose televised professional wrestling. So I think it's time a tv network goes all in and hits the WWE head on on Monday nights. Every wrestling fan since 1994 knows Monday Night equals Wrestling. With the consistent drop in ratings it's clear people are turning off WWE Raw so why not offer them an alternative? I say AMC should air ROH Mondays 8-10pm. Give it 26 weeks if you have to set a time table and see if the flocking wrestling fan tunes in. Why the hell not try it? TNA isn't ready and seems to be in shambles. Lucha sounds too demo specific and I don't know anything about Jarretts promotion. What network and promotion would you chose?
 
Well I think you're over reaching here. They are still pulling in over 3 million on a Monday night, and I don't think we'll see the end of professional wrestling anytime soon.

Yes the product isn't that great right now, but it is getting better. Part of the reason for it being lack lustre the last few months is the injuries to the upper echelon of the roster, and I hate to say it, but the continuing push of one guy, despite others being more over than he is. It's almost like the last two years have been all about Roman Reigns, and he's not a draw.

But I like your idea and wish there was competition for Vince. For anything to get better and stay better you need that constant competitive edge. The WWE has lost a bit of it, and any company that comes in and makes Vince up his game is welcome. The WWE won't go out of business, but it would give fans an alternative.
 
Four letters NJPW. With Ross and Striker on commetary

Now I would watch that. But you will get half of the IWC calling them "Indy darlings" even more so than you do now. Shame as some of these "Indy darlings" put on a better show and are looked down on for the simple reason they aren't home grown WWE.
 
I'd say we're a long ways off losing televised wrestling. If USA dropped Raw and Smackdown (two of its higher grossing shows) then they'd likely just move their shows to their streaming service, The WWE Network.

While competition is almost certainly a method to improve overall quality, ratings are no longer a major factor. We've moved into a social media age where online chatter is slowly usurping television ratings. WWE continues to post profits quarterly, while the ratings continue to plummet.

I won't pretend to hold the answer as to how to improve the quality of the product, but a fear another show on Monday night is an oversimplification. Millions of wrestling fans don't have cable. They can't justify the expenditure monthly for what they can stream for free online. That's a major issue for any entertainment company that creates content in today's age. They need to move to a model that calculates illegal streaming. Those ads they run on their broadcasts are still getting to people.

Anyone without cable isn't necessarily watching Monday. They might stream, they might wait for spoilers so as to weed out the garbage. If ROH was on Monday it would just mean watching more wrestling Monday; skipping to the higher rated matches and segments for both broadcasts.

If WWE gets Monday night competition, it must not be on any kind of specialty channel that casual fans are going to have to pay extra for. It must be highly accessible if it is to take off.
 
Now I would watch that. But you will get half of the IWC calling them "Indy darlings" even more so than you do now. Shame as some of these "Indy darlings" put on a better show and are looked down on for the simple reason they aren't home grown WWE.
In Rock's voice: It doesn't matter what IWC thinks!
These jabronies will watch anything and still complain.
Just look how everyone cries over Shane running RAW. "Whah! Whah!" Let see what they will say when Authority will return in full 20 minutes promos power
 
I'd be very surprised if we ever see another company go head to head against RAW. The fact that it worked for WCW in 1995 was a major gamble on Ted Turner's part that just happened to have worked. Nitro and RAW ran neck to neck until late '96 because they both had a fairly similar sized fanbase. Nitro was only the front runner for roughly a year and a half from late '96 through early to mid '98 and were competitive ratings wise for the remainder of the year.

Ted Turner was probably the only TV executive to be ballsy enough to say "hey I've got a similar product to what's being aired on this channel and they're doing well on Monday nights so I'm going to air my product on Monday nights too." Major gamble that just happened to have paid off for a time. Most TV executives are interested in driving competition, they're interested in driving profits, to air a television show against a similar one that's been established for close to 25 years is most likely not going to give them the pay off in revenue that a network is looking for. So they are on a night that has the least amount of competition for that genre to maximize viewership which maximizes revenue.

TV has also changed alot in the last 20 years with the DVR, OnDemand, streaming options like Hulu, Netflix, WWE network and the internet options like YouTube, must see TV doesn't exist anymore. TV viewership is down across all genres because we don't watch TV in the traditional way of oh it's 7pm on Wednesday I better sit down and watch such and such. We can watch it whenever and however we want.

Could another company air it's product head to head against WWE? Of course they could, would it be a good long term business decision? Probably not. TNA tried it in 2010 when they were near the height of their popularity. They switched back to Thursdays after less than a month because their ratings dropped a full point from an average of 1.5 - 1.8 to 0.5 - 0.8.
 
Throughout the history, the WWE has pouched the best Professional sports Wrestling Entertainers from every major (and some not so major) company. Things have gone down in terms of “quality” since then, but seem to be picking back up. If anyone should challenge the WWE’s top spot today, there is only one way to do so, and that is to go head to head with the WWE, specifically on Monday nights from 8 PM to 11 PM. The way I would do it is to come up with an agreement between all of the other major promotions around the World and form a new National Wrestling Alliance…the Global Wrestling Alliance. If you can’t beat them (the WWE), join them…all.

Global Force Wrestling
Lucha Underground
New Japan Pro Wrestling
Ring Of Honor
Total Non-stop Action / Impact Wrestling

You have 5 companies to fill up a 3 hour block of television. I say give each company 36 minutes, including commercials. If each company were to feature only their Main Events / main attraction stars, this show could blow Raw right out of the water. On their debut episode, I’d immediately want to make a big splash. The inaugural card would look like this.

Global Wrestling Alliance presents "Champions"!!

GFW Global Champion, Nick Aldis vs. GFW Nex*Gen Champion, Sonjay Dutt

Lucha Underground Champion, Johnny Mundo’s open challenge match (Rey Mysterio accepts the open challenge)

IWGP Heavyweight Champion, Tetsuya Naito vs. IWGP Intercontinental Champion, Kenny Omega

ROH World Champion, Jay Lethal vs. ROH Television Champion, Tomohiro Ishii

Three Way Main Event
TNA World Heavyweight Champion, Drew Galloway vs. TNA King Of The Mountain Champion, Eli Drake vs. TNA X-Division Champion, Trevor Lee

The rest of their respective rosters could be featured on their own respective shows. The Monday show should only be reserved for the best of the best each promotion has to offer every week. It’ll somewhat be the all-star game of Wrestling. I say no inter-promotional crossovers, unless they somehow make it to the point of having a monthly pay per view. They could all tape their shows and then edit their respective main events into one show. If you stick Jim Ross on commentary with just about anyone, this show will be a hit.
 
Nobody's going head to head with WWE anytime soon; and when I say anytime soon, I mean anytime that's even in the remote future because nobody else has the audience, the money, the brand strength or the support of a powerhouse like NBC Universal. The last company that tried that was TNA and look how well that worked out for TNA.

TNA is on a network that's essentially nothing and are fortunate if they draw a quarter million viewers a week. ROH has a syndicated television deal and seems perfectly happy with its place as "King of the Indys" while not really growing or shrinking. If the reports of Lucha Underground are true, they're constantly having money issues as, reportedly, they've blazed through half the amount of money in 2 years that it took TNA to blaze through in over 10 so its long term future is a question. Jeff Jarrett's Global Force Wrestling is essentially a nonentity at this point that hardly constitutes a blip on the radar; I'd forgotten all about it until I saw someone list it in a previous post. New Japan Pro Wrestling doesn't have the audience here in the United States to remotely challenge WWE and their television program on AXS TV consists mostly of showing matches from New Japan ppvs that've already aired and only draws about 150,000 to 200,000 per episode. New Japan's streaming service, New Japan Pro Wrestling World, at least the last I heard, has under 30,000 subscribers worldwide with about 15% of those numbers coming from outside Japan.

Over the course of the past month, I think WWE has put together a strong, consistently booked product that's maintained more stabilized continuity than we've seen in quite a long time. The thing about WWE, however, is that it's easily the most mainstream of any pro wrestling company and that makes it an easy, convenient target. Lucha Underground or New Japan, even Ring of Honor, have more of an "underground" less polished vibe about it; if any or all of them gained a foothold in the United States via a very strong presence on cable television, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they received the same criticism once the novelty of newness about them wore off. It's sort of the same thing with NXT; I enjoy NXT's product consistently but if you've not seen NXT and you hear the way some people talk about it, you get the impression that each week's show has the quality and excitement of one of the TakeOver specials and that's not remotely true. There aren't 5 star matches every week, there aren't big surprises that pop up out of nowhere during each episode or every other episode, every feud isn't the stuff dreams are made of and every bit of mic work isn't gold. Again, I'm not putting NXT down because it's a quality product that I myself enjoy, I'm just realistic and have realistic expectations. NOBODY could live up to some of the downright insane expectations some fans have for what they feel constitutes a good wrestling show.
 
I guess I'm wishing their was a gutsy ballsy exec coo or ceo out there who was a product of the Attitude Era wrestling boom and is now 34-42yrs old and has power. The only two networks with the money and audience is AMC and A&E. AMC has made millions off TWD, and A&E with Duck Dynasty, Storage Wars and Bates Motel could want a network defying show on Monday Nights. I can't see TBS or TNT trying again. Syfy's audience is too small. I don't think a FOX, NBC or CBS would ever try it. Maybe an FX? I feel like any network that tried it right now would immediately be the underdog. The WWF of 96,97. A raw stripped down product in smaller venues with packed batshit crazy fans all the pissed off RAW viewers would turn to. The next Bischoff or Heyman where are you????

Is anyone ever going to compete with Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble or Summerslam? No. But with the RAW specific audience shrinking someone can offer an adult oriented alternative. No make-a-wish commitments, no action figures or lunch box using audiences to target. Right now tv networks throw on crap competition shows like Wipeout, AGT, and the two new "grit" obstacle course shows on NBC and Fox why not try an already built and programmed audience product of wrestling. Between now and late September you have basically dead air or filler. Baseball and football till the new seasons start late September. Grow some balls and put on a wrestling show!!
 
Thinking about it more and more FX sounds like the most logical of all tv networks. It's built quite an impressive lineup of shows over the years with Fargo, Archer, The Americans (one of if not the best show I watch on tv), Tyrant, Baskets, Louie, The Strain and on and on. They also curse and show everything you possibly can without being a porn and Rupert Murdoch (I believe I have his name correct) is a ballsy individual and his Fox property is loaded.
 
Thinking about it more and more FX sounds like the most logical of all tv networks. It's built quite an impressive lineup of shows over the years with Fargo, Archer, The Americans (one of if not the best show I watch on tv), Tyrant, Baskets, Louie, The Strain and on and on. They also curse and show everything you possibly can without being a porn and Rupert Murdoch (I believe I have his name correct) is a ballsy individual and his Fox property is loaded.

If I was running a wrestling promotion FX would be a channel, I'd have my sights on for a potential network. They're available in 94 million homes domestically, not to mention they're breaking into the global market as well, in fact I just read somewhere that TNA signed a deal with FX Middle East. So there might be a possibility that News Corporation who owns FOX, FX and other channels might be interested in a wrestling product domestically in the US.

It would certainly allow for a wrestling promotion to bring an edge back to their product and stand out from the WWE.
 
Remember what happened to TNA in 2010?.. If they went another month the company would've went out of business.. and you expect ROH to battle WWE?.. It would kill their entire audience.. Every fan prefers to watch WWE over anything else, no matter what they say.. Lucha, TNA, ROH GFW, none of them compare to WWE.
 
If we're looking at a possible network, similar to FX, to have a wrestling show, why not TBS?


Hear me out on this one. American Dad! was already a good show on Fox. Since switching to TBS it has become a bit better. For one, there are fewer restrictions on TBS and FX.
  • You can say the "S" word on these two channels.
  • Being on TBS means that scripting some things are slightly easier.



Or if not TBS, maybe one of the major broadcast networks' affiliates. Here in Charleston, SC, CBS has the GRIT channel; ABC has MyNetwork TV. As CCIV pointed out, the networks main channels themselves might not take a gamble on a two-hour wrestling show. Mainly due to the fact that they have many different things going on at the same time as well as established programming blocks that have been in place since as recent as 2005 (Animation Domination) and continue to be successes.

So here's my question.
If you were a wrestling company and wanted to be on broadcast tv, quite badly I might add, which company would you go to? And furthermore, based on past history, a Monday night slot is not gonna happen no matter what you say (WCW and TNA) for good reason, not least of which are WWE and ESPN Monday Night Football. So what would be the best option since Sunday is not an option for non-ppv events and Monday is equivalent to seppuku? My guess is either Wednesday or Saturday.​
 
If we're looking at a possible network, similar to FX, to have a wrestling show, why not TBS?


Hear me out on this one. American Dad! was already a good show on Fox. Since switching to TBS it has become a bit better. For one, there are fewer restrictions on TBS and FX.

[*]You can say the "S" word on these two channels.
[*]Being on TBS means that scripting some things are slightly easier.

Comparatively speaking, WCW was still drawing well on TNT back in 2001; the quality was so shitty you could fertilize tomatoes with it, but it was still drawing. It was easily the biggest draw of any Turner founded/owned company but Ted Turner was no longer the man due to the AOL/Time Warner merger and the honchos didn't want a wrestling program as they felt it was too low brow for the image they wanted to create. If the powers that be didn't want a hit wrestling show that drew millions of viewers 15 years ago, they won't want one now. Also, as far as saying "shit", so what? Profanity doesn't equal quality and all the profanity in the world won't make up for it; just ask TNA when it was trying to have its own little Attitude Era back in the day.


So here's my question.
If you were a wrestling company and wanted to be on broadcast tv, quite badly I might add, which company would you go to? And furthermore, based on past history, a Monday night slot is not gonna happen no matter what you say (WCW and TNA) for good reason, not least of which are WWE and ESPN Monday Night Football. So what would be the best option since Sunday is not an option for non-ppv events and Monday is equivalent to seppuku? My guess is either Wednesday or Saturday.​
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Realistically, you'd have to go with whomever made you the best offer and/or whomever was genuinely interested in you. As long as I was getting paid and was able to pay the wrestlers who work for me well, I wouldn't give a shit if it was on Nickelodeon. Ideals and visions as for what you'd want your wrestling company to be are wonderful things, but they don't pay the bills and that's what it ultimately comes down to.
 
I see what's being written. I listen to the podcasts. Everyone has ideas, everyone wants a better product. Yet the ratings are falling week after week. I use to believe it wasn't a big deal but I'm starting to feel that if BIG change doesn't happen soon we may actually lose televised professional wrestling. So I think it's time a tv network goes all in and hits the WWE head on on Monday nights. Every wrestling fan since 1994 knows Monday Night equals Wrestling. With the consistent drop in ratings it's clear people are turning off WWE Raw so why not offer them an alternative? I say AMC should air ROH Mondays 8-10pm. Give it 26 weeks if you have to set a time table and see if the flocking wrestling fan tunes in. Why the hell not try it? TNA isn't ready and seems to be in shambles. Lucha sounds too demo specific and I don't know anything about Jarretts promotion. What network and promotion would you chose?
I disagree. It's not like WWE is on network television it's on cable. And last time I checked, it's one of the highest rated programs on cable. I do agree with you that WWE does indeed need more competition, but where that competition comes from remains to be seen.
 
WWE does indeed need more competition, but it has to be something completely different. TNA started out as an alternative to WWE, and it was awesome at first. As soon as they got their TV deal that all changed as they tried to much to be like WWE. The terrible backstage segments and eventually the whole product became unwatchable. Hopefully if another company has that chance, they won't make the same mistake.
 
Despite the way WWE likes to tell the story WCW didn't just come out of nowhere one day with a blank check and the keys to TNT/TBS. WCW had a following that was comparable to WWF back in the '80s and '90s leading up to the debut of Nitro. Nitro succeeded because it looked and felt like it was on the same level as RAW.

It was the greatest time in the world to be a wrestling fan, I've got dozens of VHS tapes from that time where I was caught up watching one show and taped the other one so I could watch it later. Any other time it never would have worked the way it did because you didn't have two companies so closely matched in size and viewership. Both companies had millions of fans and had superstars that the fans wanted to see. Which is evident by the ratings which were running neck and neck in '95 through most of '96 when it started to turn in WCW's favor.

That being said though, head to head didn't equal longterm success. One had to fail and for sometime there it looked like it was going to be McMahon who was going to fail. A strong argument could be made that WCW could probably have retained its audience and its ability to survive had they switched Nitro to another night in '99 or been able to force RAW to do so a year prior. With a lack of viewership comes a lack of advertisement which creates a lack of ability to promote upcoming PPVs and live shows which in evitably equals a lack of profit.

There is room for alternatives out there to the WWE, that's quite apparent from the fact that other brands are on TV. To attempt to go head to head against RAW though would be suicide. Not that RAW has a superior product but in the fact that people are pretty well set in their ways when it comes to TV. Chances are if you're a wrestling fan you're watching some combination of RAW, ROH and TNA if you have the ability to. Why would you want to choose one over the other? The casual fan might switch over a few times throughout the night, but they're ultimately going to stick with RAW because that's the brand they are familiar with.

TNA tried it in 2010 while their roster was at its peak as far as star power is concerned and while they saw a spike in the ratings for the first week or so, they ultimately lost viewership and had to go crawling back to Thursday night with their tail between their legs. Not a knock against TNA because I preferred their product over WWE until about 2011, but whoever suggested that move within TNA and whoever at Spike agreed to it should have been fired, because all that did for TNA and Spike was result in a loss of revenue.

Just go out there on whatever timeslot you have and put on the best damn show you can and if the product is good, the fans will come on board, why would you stifle your self by making the fans choose between one or the other?
 
Competition is a good thing all around, I agree. However, as has been pointed out, there's not really anywhere that the competition can realistically come from. Even if someone were to land a TV deal with a strong cable network, there's still the time it's going to take to build up the brand and audience to where it might potentially compete with WWE and that in & of itself will most likely take years to happen.

I also think that part of the problem lies with some wrestling fans as we can be a very fickle. I wrote in a post earlier this week comparing pro wrestling fans with comic book fans in that we're both so difficult to please as we often get so focused on what we want to see happen, what we think should happen, why we think it should happen and whether or not we think its cool that it's hard for some to just even begin to enjoy the product. For instance, if a company tries to be an alternative to WWE, such as maybe having a more raw, more underground, less slick sort of look in terms of production values, if the company is performing in front of crowds of maybe one or two thousand instead of twelve to fourteen thousand, look how many fans come out and complain that said company looks "minor league."

Realistically, I think the only way any degree of competition were to come about would be if WWE did a legit brand split in which they relaunched WCW as its own separate entity with its own separate wrestlers, championships and officials to manage everything. When I say that it's competition, I mean it's competition in the sense that it could potentially cause both promotions to try their best to up their game for fear of being made to look inferior. Another possibility would be to take NXT to another level by shopping it around for its own television deal but otherwise keeping everything exactly the same as it is; NXT being seen by a big TV audience might force WWE to up its game for fear of being made to look bad by what's been its "developmental territory." However, both these scenarios are highly unlikely to take place; NXT is producing some of the best wrestling to be found by operating exactly as is, so it's probably not going to change anytime soon. Also, if NXT was to be pushed and used in the same manner as Raw and SmackDown, I think it's much more likely that we'd see Vince step in to make the final creative calls instead of Triple H. As for a revived WCW, I just don't see Vince giving it complete autonomy to exist as a separate entity because he's too much of a micromanaging control freak.
 

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