Is The Undertaker ABOVE Wrestlemania?

[CKDaimen]

Wrestlemania is an event where no man is above passing the torch. And when I say pass the torch it doesn’t have to be because a retirement is approaching, but just to give the rub to someone who is ready to take his already superstar career to the next level. Here is the question in this thread: Is The Undertaker above this? Is The Undertaker ABOVE Wrestlemania itself?

I remember a thread not too long ago asking if it weren’t for the streak, how many Wrestlemania matches would Taker have lost. I think we all have our own opinions, but for me, the most Wrestlemania passing of the torch atmosphere where he should have lost was to Batista. That’s just one man’s opinion. I’m sure other people may think Randy Orton, or Edge, but to me, Taker going over Batista with the momentum Batista had, and the way they match up, was the ultimate sign that Taker may be bigger than Wrestlemania. I just think his match with Batista had the most old school passing of the torch atmosphere like the below mentioned epic mania matches.

Here are some examples to further clarify what I mean. Wrestlemania 3. Andre The Giant ALSO had a streak. A 15 year streak of being undefeated. But he was not above passing the torch to Hulk Hogan, and in doing that, taking the already superstar that was Hulk Hogan, into a MEGA superstar at the sacrifice of HIS streak.

Wrestlemania 6. Hulk Hogan never losing at Wrestlemania was the unbeatable babyface champion for years leading up to his match with The Ultimate Warrior. But not even the immortal biggest babyface of all time, Hulk Hogan, was above passing the torch to Ultimate Warrior making the already superstar Ultimate Warrior into a MEGA superstar.

Wrestlemania 12. Bret Hart being the face of the WWE for the past three years….the leader of the new generation, was not above passing the torch to a man he hated, Shawn Michaels, making the superstar Shawn Michaels, more than just a superstar and more than just the new champion, but the new face of the new generation.

Wrestlemania 14. Shawn Michaels not laying down for anybody, the face of the new generation for the past few couple years leading up to his match against Stone Cold was not above passing the torch to Austin, taking the superstar Austin and turning him into the new face of the new generation, ultimately the attitude era.

After this, the torch never fully rested on anybody. I mean, everybody had a major Wrestlemania loss. Austin did not main event as many manias as you may think, but if you count Rock vs. Austin III as a main event, that was his big mania job. Rock had many big mania jobs. HHH did big mania jobs to Batista, Benoit, etc…it’s clear through history that nobody is above a big mania job……EXCEPT The Undertaker.

Batista going over Taker (Or whoever you think should have went over Taker) would have took him from superstar to our generation’s version of a megastar, maybe even the same level as John Cena as far as the face of the company. Just because Taker isn’t retiring and will still be in future Wrestlemanias shouldn’t mean he can’t job until he is ready to retire (and even THAT isn’t guaranteed). With the exception of HBK’s huge loss to Austin, nobody knew for a fact they were about to step down but they were still forced to pass the torch. Why can’t Taker be forced to pass the torch? It seems like the WWE is treating Taker’s undefeated streak like an NFL season. With Wrestlemanias being more like weeks instead of the Superbowl….as if seeing how many consecutive weeks he can win like the Patriots. But in reality, that is not what Wrestlemania is founded on. Every Wrestlemania is supposed to be epic. And you mean to tell me that not one of those Wrestlemanias, I.E. Wrestlemania 23 against Batista, was epic enough to see the streak end? The only reason for that, and the only reason for Taker being above what no one else is above, is that somewhere along the way, The Undertaker character is booked as something NOBODY has ever been: ABOVE Wrestlemania. Hogan, Bret, HBK, Austin, Rock, HHH….NOBODY has been booked as being above Mania….but I have come to the conclusion that Taker is ABOVE Wrestlemania. While I respect the streak, I can’t help but having a problem with somebody being above Wrestlemania, particularly when he SHOULD have lost one or two of those matches from a torch passing standpoint as well as a ‘how they match up’ standpoint <cough> Batista <cough>.
So I guess the question is, do you think The Undertaker is ABOVE Wrestlemania, and is he the ONLY person above Wrestlemania ever? Personally, I believe the answers to both of those questions is YES.

 

[shafe_41]

Not a chance. Taker isn't above WM at all. It's silly to think that he would be. There is a pretty simple reason on why the streak has never ended. There just hasn't been an appropriate time/opponent to have go over Taker and the streak at Mania... except for one time. Because there was one, and only one.

If you want my honest opinion, the WWE missed their only oppertunity to put somebody over Taker at Mania. I believe they've only had one. His name is Randy Orton. Orton was already a WH Champion, but he was still a little green to the main event scene. His Legend Killer persona was the best "gimmick" in Orton's career thus far. Think of everything Orton would have had to gain from a win over Taker. He would have had momentum beyond belief. Being the man to end Taker's winning streak would have been huge for him. WWE didn't necessarily "drop the ball" on it, but I do think it was the one and only logical situation where a clean win for Orton over Taker would have been totally appropriate. Now creative could have already had the idea that they didn't want to drop the "streak," I don't know for sure.

The other somewhat logical choice would have been Batista at WM23. But at that point, look how old Batista was and rumors were already circulating that he wasn't going to be with the company a whole lot longer anyway. Why drop the streak to someone who wouldn't even be with the company in 5 years? I truly believe that Batista will not be around at WM28. He'll get hurt one or two more times and be done from in-ring competition.

The E needed to drop the steak (if they would) to somebody young, has a big future, and had a ton of momentum going in to Mania... and would gain a ton out of Mania by beating Taker and the streak. Again... WM21 to Orton was the only time I could have seen it being done, and working.

 

[rellik l'aires]

I'm not sure where I've read it but back around WM23 originally Batista was to go over and defeat taker, but a few weeks before that match it all started with one fan holding up a sign saying that taker was 14-0 at WM and I think good old VKM noticed that which is why taker ended up winning because what would make him more money, Batista trying to build himself or at every WM trying to see who would be the one to beat the streak. Think of it no one even cared about the streak until the following WM and since its been like someone just trying to beat the streak.

 

[noktiis]

originally Batista was to go over and defeat taker

That's not true.

Think of it no one even cared about the streak until the following WM and since its been like someone just trying to beat the streak.

..and neither is this. They've been hyping the streak since before WM23. Maybe that just when you started to watch wrestling or notice

 

[lord_altan]

You're telling me that you would want to see Batista, DAVE BATISTA, go over the legendary Undertaker at WrestleMania, at the grandest stage of them all? Are you freakin' kidding me? Batista is far from deserving of a rub like that, as if he even needed it; sure, he can be entertaining at times, I'll give him that, but for someone who (most of the time) couldn't put on a good match to save his life, well, the idea is simply ludicrous. If the Undertaker is going to lose at WM, as mentioned time and time again, it has going to be to someone who's young, someone who's up-and-coming, someone who has everything to gain from a win of that caliber. The Undertaker is 44 years old, and Batista is pushing 41. He's already been a multiple-time world champion, he's already had his defining 'Mania moment (against HHH), and next to John Cena, he is the face of the company. Batista had nothing to gain from a win. It would do nothing for him, it wouldn't elevate him, the only thing it would do is tarnish Taker's streak. Randy Orton, yeah, he could have gained something from the win, but he was already destined for superstardom anyways.

If anyone is going to beat the Undertaker at WM, and it pains me to say this, it's going to be John Cena. It's just something the WWE would do. If not, then yes, the Undertaker is above WrestleMania, hell, the Undertaker IS WrestleMania.

 

[The Rob]

Whilst this is an interesting thread and a good post on your behalf CKDamien, I'm afraid I have to completely disagree with you. No wrestler is bigger than WrestleMania, not even Hulk Hogan. WrestleMania is the stage upon which top stars shine brightest. It's not a case of the top stars being the reason why WrestleMania is so huge. No team is bigger than the Superbowl, no team is bigger than the FA Cup etc, so Undertaker is not bigger than WrestleMania, end of. He is just a wrestler who happens to have been very, very successful at WrestleMania. WrestleMania would still be the biggest event of the year even without Undertaker's streak, the streak is just something that's happened at this event over time.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

Let me try to get this straight. You think that the fact that The Undertaker still has his Wrestlemania streak intact means that he's "above" Wrestlemania? Because he hasn't "passed the torch" to anyone? Quite frankly, The Undertaker can pass the old proverbial torch to anyone at any other ppv. Taking his streak away from him, and give it to someone whom you didn't know was going to remain in the WWE for too long would have been foolish.

The Undertaker should not even be compared to the stars you said such as Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels who passed the torch. Here's why.

Andre the Giant was undefeated for 15 years. Correct? I wasn't born in the 1970's or 80's, but was his streak as big of a deal as The Undertaker's is? Hulk Hogan needed something to submit his legacy, so they decided to let him defeat Andre. This is 15 years without getting pinned... The Undertaker is only undefeated at one ppv. Andre the Giant's loss didn't hurt at all, like it might hurt The Undertaker.

Hulk Hogan losing to The Ultimate Warrior was something very unique. You had WWE's two biggest faces, each as champions at the time (I believe). Passing the torch to someone like Ultimate Warrior was good because Hulk Hogan knew he would be able to handle it. I'm not taking away anything from Batista, but if he ended the streak, what would happen next?

Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels? I was still very young in 1996 when Wrestlemania XII was coming around (2 years old), but I'm sure many people knew that HBK would win. You likely wouldn't have an Ironman match going into sudden death just to see the champ retain, even if it is Bret Hart. On the contrary, if you ask me, Bret Hart and HBK pretty much shared the leadership of the new generation during the year before and after Wrestlemania 12, along with Diesel, Pyscho Sid, and The Undertaker (possibly Vader, too). This is before the whole screwjob.

Wrestlemania 14. Shawn Michaelshad to pass the torch to Stone Cold Steve Austin. He knew he could no longer do much after his back injury, and he knew the right thing to do was pass the torch to Austin. Retaining the title would have been a very selfish thing for HBK to do, if you ask me. Too bad we never saw HBK vs. Austin II.

As I've said in many different threads, the Wrestlemania streak is the best thing going for The Undertaker. If he loses it, what's left? Having longevity in the WWE? That's boring. The Undertaker won't be remembered as a great champion, a person with long title reigns, a person with a lot of title reigns, so I say stay with the streak. If it ain't broke, not fix it.

 

[S.O.B. Radio]

Taker is not above Wrestlemania, it's just that Vince and company are waiting for the right guy to end the streak. I really thought HBK would have been an excellent choice considering his character was used in a horrible angle with JBL. I felt that McMahon could have at least given HBK that one, but I think the streak would end to a younger superstar.

If any superstar should be the one responsible for Undertaker's streak ending, I think it would have to be John Cena. They could build this one over a long period of time. Check out the old Smackdown footage where they were building Cena vs. Undertaker for one of the Backlash PPV's (I think it was). Of course it was back when Cena was the freestylin' white boy, but the promos were far and away better than anything Cena has done for years. They can piece together one helluva video package tracing their career paths and each time their paths have crossed in the past.

Keep in mind guys I am not a Cena fan but I feel that this is the best option out there to end Undertaker's streak. If this is hyped correctly, this could be a huge success in the post Hogan-Andre Wrestlemania era.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

what!?!?!? no way the taker is prob the best ever and more inportantly loyal during the wcw era seems like all the greats left for turner money evan hulk macho razor diesel you name it they were on nitro the taker never thought once of ditching the wwe for the money and has passed the torch to many people and has evan gave edge the rub i mean this guy has done well in his run because hes always been there for vkm no matter what went bad he could always put the belt on taker and wich he really never cared about the title like guys these days i hope he keeps the streak goin for a couple more and retire so the next generation has a goal to beat takers streak at mania bar none i think he is the best

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Nobody is above the grandest stage of them all. Not even the Undertaker. Taker's mania streak is one of the few things left in wrestling that has that sacred feel to it. You have to remeber that not all of Taker's WM matches were main events, and not all of them were for a championship. In fact only 3 of Taker's 17 mania matches were for a championship. The streak is something that everyone wants to see at WM each year. And year in and year out Taker delivers. Out of all the people Taker has faced, the only people that seemed like real threats to the streak were HBK,HHH,Orton,and Edge. Outside of those guys I don't think you could really make an arguement for anyone else.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Taker isn't above WrestleMania, nobody is, but his undefeated streak has become one of the only remaining aspects of pro wrestling that has something of a sacred feel about it. Taker can always pass the torch to someone at anytime, but the WWE has made WrestleMania a particularly special time for the Undertaker. The fact that The Streak wasn't something that was planned out is part of what makes it so special. While the WWE does and has hyped the shit out of it, it's one of the few things in wrestling that lives up to and deserves all the hype it gets. All that doesn't take anything away from The Streak, it only adds to it because it's all pretty much true. The WWE hasn't said that he's always had the best matches at WM or anything like that, but most of those matches have been very solid at the least.

I look forward to WM every year due in large part to the Undertaker's participation. I'd hate to see The Streak end but, if it were to, I personally think it should be Taker's call. He should be the one to pick the guy. In all honesty, the only guy in the WWE right now that could go over Taker at WM without a backlash from nearly every WWE fan would probably be John Cena. And even then, there'd still be a hefty portion calling it a stupid decision.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

in with hhhking13 they werent all me and a lot of those wins were against complete jokes ill evan say he beat a jobber or two (kamala) but it is sacred and other then a select few i dont see it ending,maybe orton maybe if he were to cheat and break the streak he would be THE BIGGEST heal ever

 

[reddevil69]

Wrestlemania is an event where no man is above passing the torch. And when I say pass the torch it doesn&#8217;t have to be because a retirement is approaching, but just to give the rub to someone who is ready to take his already superstar career to the next level. Here is the question in this thread: Is The Undertaker above this? Is The Undertaker ABOVE Wrestlemania itself?

I remember a thread not too long ago asking if it weren&#8217;t for the streak, how many Wrestlemania matches would Taker have lost. I think we all have our own opinions, but for me, the most Wrestlemania passing of the torch atmosphere where he should have lost was to Batista. That&#8217;s just one man&#8217;s opinion. I&#8217;m sure other people may think Randy Orton, or Edge, but to me, Taker going over Batista with the momentum Batista had, and the way they match up, was the ultimate sign that Taker may be bigger than Wrestlemania. I just think his match with Batista had the most old school passing of the torch atmosphere like the below mentioned epic mania matches.

Here are some examples to further clarify what I mean. Wrestlemania 3. Andre The Giant ALSO had a streak. A 15 year streak of being undefeated. But he was not above passing the torch to Hulk Hogan, and in doing that, taking the already superstar that was Hulk Hogan, into a MEGA superstar at the sacrifice of HIS streak.

Wrestlemania 6. Hulk Hogan never losing at Wrestlemania was the unbeatable babyface champion for years leading up to his match with The Ultimate Warrior. But not even the immortal biggest babyface of all time, Hulk Hogan, was above passing the torch to Ultimate Warrior making the already superstar Ultimate Warrior into a MEGA superstar.

Wrestlemania 12. Bret Hart being the face of the WWE for the past three years&#8230;.the leader of the new generation, was not above passing the torch to a man he hated, Shawn Michaels, making the superstar Shawn Michaels, more than just a superstar and more than just the new champion, but the new face of the new generation.

Wrestlemania 14. Shawn Michaels not laying down for anybody, the face of the new generation for the past few couple years leading up to his match against Stone Cold was not above passing the torch to Austin, taking the superstar Austin and turning him into the new face of the new generation, ultimately the attitude era.

After this, the torch never fully rested on anybody. I mean, everybody had a major Wrestlemania loss. Austin did not main event as many manias as you may think, but if you count Rock vs. Austin III as a main event, that was his big mania job. Rock had many big mania jobs. HHH did big mania jobs to Batista, Benoit, etc&#8230;it&#8217;s clear through history that nobody is above a big mania job&#8230;&#8230;EXCEPT The Undertaker.

Batista going over Taker (Or whoever you think should have went over Taker) would have took him from superstar to our generation&#8217;s version of a megastar, maybe even the same level as John Cena as far as the face of the company. Just because Taker isn&#8217;t retiring and will still be in future Wrestlemanias shouldn&#8217;t mean he can&#8217;t job until he is ready to retire (and even THAT isn&#8217;t guaranteed). With the exception of HBK&#8217;s huge loss to Austin, nobody knew for a fact they were about to step down but they were still forced to pass the torch. Why can&#8217;t Taker be forced to pass the torch? It seems like the WWE is treating Taker&#8217;s undefeated streak like an NFL season. With Wrestlemanias being more like weeks instead of the Superbowl&#8230;.as if seeing how many consecutive weeks he can win like the Patriots. But in reality, that is not what Wrestlemania is founded on. Every Wrestlemania is supposed to be epic. And you mean to tell me that not one of those Wrestlemanias, I.E. Wrestlemania 23 against Batista, was epic enough to see the streak end? The only reason for that, and the only reason for Taker being above what no one else is above, is that somewhere along the way, The Undertaker character is booked as something NOBODY has ever been: ABOVE Wrestlemania. Hogan, Bret, HBK, Austin, Rock, HHH&#8230;.NOBODY has been booked as being above Mania&#8230;.but I have come to the conclusion that Taker is ABOVE Wrestlemania. While I respect the streak, I can&#8217;t help but having a problem with somebody being above Wrestlemania, particularly when he SHOULD have lost one or two of those matches from a torch passing standpoint as well as a &#8216;how they match up&#8217; standpoint <cough> Batista <cough>.
So I guess the question is, do you think The Undertaker is ABOVE Wrestlemania, and is he the ONLY person above Wrestlemania ever? Personally, I believe the answers to both of those questions is YES.

well I was in the building at WM23 in Detroit that night when everyone was chanting Batista sucks and had signs saying if Taker loses we riot. That was pretty much the consensus of most fans during the build up to that match...Batista was the heel by default. The fans were behind Taker and Vince McMahon gave the fans what they wanted, Taker winning the heavyweight title for the first time in 5 years, I don't think it has anything to do with Taker not wanting to put guys over, it's all about business and the fact is Undertaker is by and large across the board the most popular star in the company and the majority of fans want him to come out on top, period. It's no different then being a fan of a sports team, there is nothing fun or entertaining about your favorite team losing the big game and same goes for wrestling fans when it comes to a big PPV like Mania.

Batista if you recall at that time was also experiencing a backlash since returning from injury in the summer of 2007...his work in the ring was terrible and he was not exactly deserving of having the torch passed to him so to speak. If anything, his matches with Taker brought his game up and he became a better worker because of that program and that is pretty much the feeling from everyone who has worked with Taker...he expects you to hustle and work as hard as he does and he brings out the best in his opponents.

 

[KingofKings07]

what if they had jericho end it sense they never fought before plus then jericho would be known as 1st undisputed champ and 1st one to defeat taker at wm in his 1st time wrestling taker. or even have a triple threat match with him in it and he doesnt get pinned the streak ends without him lookin week.

 

[S.O.B. Radio]

what if they had jericho end it sense they never fought before plus then jericho would be known as 1st undisputed champ and 1st one to defeat taker at wm in his 1st time wrestling taker. or even have a triple threat match with him in it and he doesnt get pinned the streak ends without him lookin week.

Jericho does not have it anymore. Ever since his return to WWE, Jericho has not been the same performer he was a few years back. The Undisputed Champion thing means nothing these days since that was a short lived time period. A 3-Way in which the streak would be in danger? Hmmm, Vince Russo would love this idea so much he would have sex with it in the middle of the ring along with Dusty Rhodes dressed up like Doly Parton.

 

[XgringolocoX]

I don't think it's a matter of Taker being above Wrestlemania. This is something that gives this event some distinction. Having a long term wrestler carry a mantle such as the streak does exactly this: keeps folks talkin.
Every Mania Taker is on, we will watch to see if someone ends the streak.
I do think that in the next year or two someone should take it. But Batista? Are you fckn kidding me? Too injury prone, doesn't need the rub, sucs to much regardless of the first two.
I too was thinking it would have been great to see Orton end the streak. I knew HBk wouldn't, but what a hell ova match.
Now, I'm not sure....maybe Priceless Teddy...

 

[JohnnyTheAlphaMale]

I agree that Taker isnt bigger than Mania but I must pick a fault in many of the points that were made. Andre not loseing for 15 years was a work. He'd lost many times just like he HAD faced Hogan before that night (I think 3 times, one of which was in Japan) Kamala never fought Taker at Mania as someone said so because of this Im going to list the opponents in chronological order and 2 future opponents.

1)Jimmy Snuka; was leaving, torch passing etc
2)Jake the Snake; see above
3)Giant Gonzales; DQ win for Taker (close one)
4)King Kong Bundy; just to get Taker on the card.
5)Diesel; good match, Big Daddy leaving also
6)Sid; Taker to carry WWE for best part of 97 partly due to issues with HBK/Hart and Austin not quite their yet. Also a reward for loyalty.
7)Kane; could have lost to put Kane over but neva
8)Boss Man; storyline match to keep Taker busy
9)HHH; could of been passed
10)Ric Flair; no chance
11)Big Show/A-Train; awful 2 on 1 match
12)Kane; if it didnt happen the first time. . . .
13)Randy; most deserving to win based on gimmick and upside
14)Mark Henry; nuff said
15)Batista; he was too old
16)Edge; also desrving (could have kept his singles streak alive)
17)HBK; to old
18)Jericho; he's to old/established
19)Cena; actual riots and boycotting

 

[S.O.B. Radio]

I agree that Taker isnt bigger than Mania but I must pick a fault in many of the points that were made. Andre not loseing for 15 years was a work. He'd lost many times just like he HAD faced Hogan before that night (I think 3 times, one of which was in Japan) Kamala never fought Taker at Mania as someone said so because of this Im going to list the opponents in chronological order and 2 future opponents.

18)Jericho; he's to old/established
19)Cena; actual riots and boycotting

I agree on both of these and I am strongly leaning on #19 to happen. Np publicity is bad publicity and I really believe that something that could cause anger and actual riots by wrestling fans is necessary.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I am so tired of people saying that 'Taker's streak is wrong or that he get's special treatment and that it should end. Blah Blah Blah fucking Blah!

Simply put, 'Taker, along with HBK, is the only living legend left in the WWE. He has been WWE's most loyal and trustworthy employee, who seems to get screwed out of every single title run he has ever had. He is a positive influence backstage and it is said that he doesn't complain or raise a fuss about anything that happens to him. Why take away the only thing that he will be remembered for? 10 years from now, when I hear the name Undertaker, I am going to think to myself, "undefeated at WM!" He deserves to have his legacy and this, as sad is it may be, will be the only legacy that he will have when he retires.

If that is not enough of a reason for you, how about this? What would WWE have to gain from dropping the streak? That's right, nothing. Do you even realize the number of people that watch WM just because they want to see 'Taker defend his streak? I guarantee that WWE would lose money off the WM after the one where 'Taker lost his streak, because the people who watch WM just for that would not be interested anymore. The streak has become like a once a year title shot. Most of the time, it is the main focal point of WM. Why take that away?

You want to know if I think that Undertaker is above WM, right? No he isn't above WM. No one superstar is above WM. However, the streak has become a main stay at WM and has been a big part of the legend that is WM for about the last 5 or 6 years. Simply put, if you take away the streak, you take away from the mystique that is WM!

That is all!

 

[S.O.B. Radio]

I am so tired of people saying that 'Taker's streak is wrong or that he get's special treatment and that it should end. Blah Blah Blah fucking Blah!

Simply put, 'Taker, along with HBK, is the only living legend left in the WWE. He has been WWE's most loyal and trustworthy employee, who seems to get screwed out of every single title run he has ever had. He is a positive influence backstage and it is said that he doesn't complain or raise a fuss about anything that happens to him. Why take away the only thing that he will be remembered for? 10 years from now, when I hear the name Undertaker, I am going to think to myself, "undefeated at WM!" He deserves to have his legacy and this, as sad is it may be, will be the only legacy that he will have when he retires.

If that is not enough of a reason for you, how about this? What would WWE have to gain from dropping the streak? That's right, nothing. Do you even realize the number of people that watch WM just because they want to see 'Taker defend his streak? I guarantee that WWE would lose money off the WM after the one where 'Taker lost his streak, because the people who watch WM just for that would not be interested anymore. The streak has become like a once a year title shot. Most of the time, it is the main focal point of WM. Why take that away?

You want to know if I think that Undertaker is above WM, right? No he isn't above WM. No one superstar is above WM. However, the streak has become a main stay at WM and has been a big part of the legend that is WM for about the last 5 or 6 years. Simply put, if you take away the streak, you take away from the mystique that is WM!

That is all!

It does add to the mystique and it does help to sell the PPV. However, if used correctly (because we all know Undertaker does not have too many more Wrestlemania matches left), this can be used to elevate a superstar into a enormous level. Like I said, Cena vs Undertaker has the makings of being the next Hogan vs Andre especially if the streak and the title are up for grabs. It would be worth even more if Taker walks in as Champion. But, lets just sit back and watch it all unfold.

 

[reddevil69]

It does add to the mystique and it does help to sell the PPV. However, if used correctly (because we all know Undertaker does not have too many more Wrestlemania matches left), this can be used to elevate a superstar into a enormous level. Like I said, Cena vs Undertaker has the makings of being the next Hogan vs Andre especially if the streak and the title are up for grabs. It would be worth even more if Taker walks in as Champion. But, lets just sit back and watch it all unfold.

sorry to burst your bubble but nothing in the rest of our lifetimes will ever reach the level of Hogan/Andre. That match had repercussions that are still felt to this day. And Cena is as big as he's ever going to get in today's marketplace, he's a top star, he's a movie star and he ain't getting any bigger than he is. Having Taker job the streak out to him would be stupid, and I don't give a shit what anyone says, nobody is going to become a major star by beating Taker at Mania, those days are done...they'll simply be just another wrestler that works for WWE, and the backlash will be more harmful than good for that person, because most fans are smart enough to know that if Taker lies down, it's a business decision, he's not really getting beaten and most fans are behind Taker and want to see him victorious, period.

There is nothing entertaining about your favorite sports team losing the big game, and Taker is the majority of wrestling fans fave sports team so to speak, and they pay to see him win, not lose.

 

[Proof]

No. You need to realize that his streak is fake and was given to him by Vince. If Taker was above WM, he would be able to sell buyrates with his name, but he doesn't draw.Taker would be nothing without his childish, cheesy gimmick and nothing without Wrestlemania. There is a reason why he didn't jump shift to WCW. As far as I am concerned, his streak is useless and means nothing. Someone needs to end it. Having an undefeated streak in a scripted sport means nothing. Orton should have won at WM 21.

And I don't know why you are comparing Taker to Andre the Giant. Andre was mainstream, Taker isn't, wasn't, and never will be.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I thought that I would get to go today without making a pissed off post, but it seems that I will not. In honor of 'Taker, you have just opened hell's gate!

No. You need to realize that his streak is fake and was given to him by Vince. If Taker was above WM, he would be able to sell buyrates with his name, but he doesn't draw.Taker would be nothing without his childish, cheesy gimmick and nothing without Wrestlemania. There is a reason why he didn't jump shift to WCW. As far as I am concerned, his streak is useless and means nothing. Someone needs to end it. Having an undefeated streak in a scripted sport means nothing. Orton should have won at WM 21.

Of course the streak is fake. Everything in wrestling is fake. The title wins, EVERYTHING. So basically, by saying that the streak shouldn't matter because it is fake, is you saying that wrestling shouldn't matter because it is fake. I mean, you don't like the streak because it's fake, so how could you like any of wrestling?

I will agree that 'Taker isn't a huge draw for the WWE for the most of the year, but around WM, he is one of the biggest draws. Plenty of people watch WM just to see him defend his streak. It has become the most anticipated part of WM every year since his return to the Deadman gimmick.

He would be nothing without his gimmick? Well this is true. Also, HHH would be nothing without his gimmick, HBK would be nothing, Cena would be nothing, Punk would be nothing, The Rock would be nothing, Austin would be nothing, Hogan, Macho Man, Piper, Flair, and so on all would have been nothing without their wrestling gimmicks. What was your point here? Mark Calloway might have been given the gimmick, but he is the one that has made it work over the years, not Vince. 'Taker's abilities in the ring, on the mic, and his ability to change with the times is the reason why he is still beloved by millions across the world.

And I don't know why you are comparing Taker to Andre the Giant. Andre was mainstream, Taker isn't, wasn't, and never will be.

'Taker isn't mainstream? Tell me you are joking. 'Taker has been apart of the biggest wrestling company on earth for more than 19 years. He has been apart of prime time television for more than 15 years. How is he not mainstream?

Btw, 'Taker is a much better in ring performer and talker than Andre ever was. 'Taker will go down as the best big man in wrestling history.

I really don't know if you just hate 'Taker so you are speaking out of your ass or if you actually believe the level of bullshit that you posted.

That is all!

 

[Proof]

I thought that I would get to go today without making a pissed off post, but it seems that I will not. In honor of 'Taker, you have just opened hell's gate!



Of course the streak is fake. Everything in wrestling is fake. The title wins, EVERYTHING. So basically, by saying that the streak shouldn't matter because it is fake, is you saying that wrestling shouldn't matter because it is fake. I mean, you don't like the streak because it's fake, so how could you like any of wrestling?

I will agree that 'Taker isn't a huge draw for the WWE for the most of the year, but around WM, he is one of the biggest draws. Plenty of people watch WM just to see him defend his streak. It has become the most anticipated part of WM every year since his return to the Deadman gimmick.

He would be nothing without his gimmick? Well this is true. Also, HHH would be nothing without his gimmick, HBK would be nothing, Cena would be nothing, Punk would be nothing, The Rock would be nothing, Austin would be nothing, Hogan, Macho Man, Piper, Flair, and so on all would have been nothing without their wrestling gimmicks. What was your point here? Mark Calloway might have been given the gimmick, but he is the one that has made it work over the years, not Vince. 'Taker's abilities in the ring, on the mic, and his ability to change with the times is the reason why he is still beloved by millions across the world.



'Taker isn't mainstream? Tell me you are joking. 'Taker has been apart of the biggest wrestling company on earth for more than 19 years. He has been apart of prime time television for more than 15 years. How is he not mainstream?

Btw, 'Taker is a much better in ring performer and talker than Andre ever was. 'Taker will go down as the best big man in wrestling history.

I really don't know if you just hate 'Taker so you are speaking out of your ass or if you actually believe the level of bullshit that you posted.

That is all!

An undefeated streak being compared to the freaking Superbowl and does nothing for the young stars is why it's a joke. At least you can put someone over when you're the champ. Every WM, you know for a fact that Taker will go over. I don't really see how Taker is such a huge draw for WM since everyone knows he will win. The guy's you've mentioned, most of them jumped shift to WCW and had successful runs with different characters. Austin, HHH, ect... they all played different characters once they turned heel/face. Undertakers whole gimmick is one dimensional. Never changes.

Taker isn't mainstream. Andre was one of the most recognizable athletes in his time, on par with Larry Bird and Muhammad Ali. Do you see ESPN putting the freaking Undertaker on the same boat with the likes of Tiger Woods or Kobe Bryant? Hell, you don't see them putting Taker on the same boat with Dan Gadzuric. Taker is 'mainstream' in the pro wrestling industry. Btw, I am not 5 year's old anymore. I dislike the Undertaker because of his cheesy gimmick and because he is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever. A dude who is almost 50 years old pretending to be a demon with super powers? Fits in well with the current PG era.

 

[SSJPhenom]

An undefeated streak being compared to the freaking Superbowl and does nothing for the young stars is why it's a joke. At least you can put someone over when you're the champ. Every WM, you know for a fact that Taker will go over. I don't really see how Taker is such a huge draw for WM since everyone knows he will win. The guy's you've mentioned, most of them jumped shift to WCW and had successful runs with different characters. Austin, HHH, ect... they all played different characters once they turned heel/face. Undertakers whole gimmick is one dimensional. Never changes.

Why does Undertaker need to put over young talent at WM? He spends the rest of the fucking year putting over young talent. He beat RKO at WM 21, however, he elevated RKO back up to main event status by jobbing to him twice in a row and then finally having that awesome HIAC that they had. 'Taker actively puts more people over in the WWE than anyone currently employed by the company and that's a fact. Go ahead and in your next post ask me who and I will be more than happy to run over the list for you once again.

I've already explained how he is a huge draw at WM. If you don't understand it, then I'm sorry.

What does them jumping from WWE to WCW or jumping from WCW to WWE have to do with anything? You said that 'Taker wouldn't be anything without his gimmick and I say that the same could be said for any wrestler.

'Taker has never changed his gimmick? Are you sure you want to go down this road? Let's see, he went from fan favorite 'Taker to ministry 'Taker. That's a change. Deadman to American Badass. That's a change. American Badass to Big Evil. That's a change. Then back to Deadman. He also is always tweaking his character's appearance and in ring style to remain current. 'Taker changes more than anyone in the company.

Taker isn't mainstream. Andre was one of the most recognizable athletes in his time, on par with Larry Bird and Muhammad Ali. Do you see ESPN putting the freaking Undertaker on the same boat with the likes of Tiger Woods or Kobe Bryant? Hell, you don't see them putting Taker on the same boat with Dan Gadzuric. Taker is 'mainstream' in the pro wrestling industry. Btw, I am not 5 year's old anymore. I dislike the Undertaker because of his cheesy gimmick and because he is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever. A dude who is almost 50 years old pretending to be a demon with super powers? Fits in well with the current PG era.

To be fair, I've never seen Andre on ESPN either. However, I have seen 'Taker on late night talk shows like Jimmy Kimmel Live. Here, take a look:

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Is this not mainstream?

I don't care if you are 5 years old or not. You don't have to believe in the powers of 'Taker, however you can't deny his ability to entertain and that is one of the GREATEST superstars in the history of the WWE. He is the Superstar on SD.

Do you really believe the bullshit that you are spotting?

That is all!