Yeah because people are islands, totally immune to all outside forces.[/quotes]
No, they aren't. However, they CHOOSE the people and situations they allow to influence them.
This should be good
Admittance of responsibility, good start. You've just contradicted your 100% statement above.
Keep em coming
What the hell? You've deliberatly gone off on a tangent because the next logical step is to admit your responsibility for what happens next and you don't want to admit it.
Wind 'em up, watch 'em go, then absolve yourself of whatever happens next? No, that's not acceptable.
No, I didn't contradict myself. As I mentioned in my second post on this subject, certain things can be considered responsibility. Grade school teachers taught me how to read and write. They are responsible to a certain extent for any prowess I might have within those two skill sets. Or lack there of, for that matter. However, if I then use those skills to tell terrorists how to build a bomb over the Internet, you can't turn around and imprison Mrs. Applegate.
To bring the subject matter closer to the issue at hand, let's use an even closer base. Let's say I was a white man. I walked into a white supremacy meeting. I knowingly did so. They can throw anything at me that they would like to throw at me. They can tell me I should do anything and everything a certain way. They can tell me how much better life would be.
At the end of the day, I made the decisions. They had their beliefs. They shared them with me, because I allowed them to. It's MY decision to make. If I then use any of the information they give me, it's MY decision.
They could be RESPONSIBLE for "winding me up." But, I myself, am responsible for allowing it to happen. And anything I do, was a decision I made. This isn't complex shit. It's rather simple.
I give you a gun. Tell you to shoot the man that killed your father. He deserves it. You should do it. I'm responsible for giving you the gun. You are responsible for pulling the trigger. One of those two actions doesn't kill someone.
A weak, pathetic person can try and claim that they wouldn't have done it without being given the gun.
Bullshit. Man up. If you pull the trigger, you're the killer.
You're also not understanding the angle with which I am looking at this situation. Someone can be responsible for winding someone up. That doesn't kill someone. We're talking about the KILLING aspect of this situation.
Winding someone up doesn't always lead to death. Quite the opposite, usually. If you want to say that Sarah Palin, for example, is responsible for winding some crazy bastard up, by all means. Potentially, I could agree upon that notion.
However, the term winding up is rather interesting. It comes from the concept that someone is a wind up toy, able to be played with. Able to be essentially FORCED into doing something.
That isn't Sarah Palin's fault, regardless of she does or doesn't use it to her advantage. That is YOUR fault. You should be a stronger person than that.
ONCE AGAIN, she is responsible for something that lead to the death. I have not disagreed with this and if I have, I unintentionally misspoke. However, the actual KILLING portion of the equation, is STRICTLY the killers responsibility.
I could give someone 1,000 guns with the message of kill someone along with them. I am responsible for giving him the guns and a suggestion of how to use them. He is responsible for what he does with them. Giving someone an idea and a gun doesn't kill someone. Might lead to it, sure. But, doesn't kill someone. You still have a choice. Make the right one, or take all the blame. It's yours.
The guy is facing the death penalty, he's taking accountability.
You've already shot yourself in the foot on the responsibility argument by admitting that you're responsible for winding them up.
If I shot myself in the foot, I'd take full responsibility for it. I wouldn't blame you for the fact that we were have a back and forth.
Which is it you deserve, most or all of the praise?
If you say "Most" then you're admitting someone else was also responsible.
If you say "All" then you're an arrogant jerk
You're right. I should have edited the most portion out of the post. It's all.
Saying that doesn't make me modest, but it doesn't make me an arrogant jerk. It simply states that I have been influenced by others. Sure. I could have been influenced negatively by a different group of people. I made the correct decisions in my life, and listened to the right people. They helped me along. I still made the decisions. In terms of the decision making, it's on my shoulders. My responsibility. I take the credit, I take the blame.
Same question, or did you as a baby invent your own theology or morality that's independent of everyone else?
First of all, that's a totally different situations. Scientifically -- forget the common sense involved -- you are not at a mental capacity to take FULL responsibility for your own actions. Good or bad. However, we are talking about adults. They are then SUPPOSED to be mature enough to take what they've learned, and then apply it correctly.
And as I've said NUMEROUS times, your teachers are responsible for what you learned. (Not just teachers in school, either.) You are responsible for how you apply it. Separate issues.
What about your failure? Have you ever blamed someone else for your mistakes?
No. I fail all on my own, as well. I don't need a crutch. Thank you, kindly.
For the record, if at any point, in the heat of the moment, I did feel the urge to blame anyone else, then shame on me. It was a moment of weakness. Though, I can't recall any such moment having happened at any recent point.
You're just disregarding everything in your life as an influence and it's laughable.
No, what is laughable is your interpretation of what I'm saying. I haven't denied the existence of influence. Clearly, it exists.
You can take a band, that was influenced by what I would consider shitty music, and they could also be quite shitty themselves. However, if they had made the decision to go to school instead of pollute the air-waves, I wouldn't have a problem with them. Regardless, I wouldn't blame the older shitty groups. I'd blame each group individually for their own shortcomings. Like it should be.
I'm going to go out, find a weak-willed person and brainwash them into killing Sarah Palin. Then I'll just stand back and say "Nothing to do with me, they didn't have to do what I said"
You seem to have some problem with shared responsbility. It's not all or nothing.
I personally wouldn't be against you doing that. So, at least we have that in common. (Clearly joking.)
No, I don't have a problem with shared responsibility. As a whole, plenty of parties can be responsible. However, ONCE AGAIN, we are talking about the KILLING of a person. Only one man is responsible for that portion. Which is what we're talking about.
Think of it this way. Everything else could have happened the way it did. You take that man out of the equation and everyone lives. Sarah Palin is a grade A, silver dollar cunt of a woman. But, she didn't kill a 9 year old. That asshole did.
As someone with a borderline personality disorder, I can tell you that I'm truly the black and white one
You argument is over-simplified and basically states "I'm my own person, nothing anyone did ever influenced me" which is as stupid as saying "No-one taught me English, I just magic'd the information out of my own brain"
People are largely responsible for their own actions but don't for one second think it's 100%. If you make someone angry and they punch you, they're reacting to what you did. It wouldn't have happened without you, and
that is the definition of responsibility.
No. Sorry. You punched the man. You're responsible for making him mad. Someone being mad isn't a punch to the face. That, you are not responsible for.
You should expect it, but you're not responsible for it. You're responsible for throwing the first punch and potentially starting a fight. Why do you think when two people fight, generally both go to jail? Because one of them had a chance to walk away. I wouldn't have, hypothetically speaking, but I could have.
With that, I think our discourse is all but done. I feel the air has been sucked from this conversation. I genuinely appreciated the back and forth, and I hope that the next time around we can be even more civil and keep things in their proper perspective.
Have a good one.