Is CM Punk just not meant to be?? Should he be a Face or Heel?

[Jack-Hammer]

I think that Punk as a heel has been absolutely great. As far as the straight edge aspect goes, it isn't that Punk is sending a bad message but it's how he gives it that makes him a great heel. I know a couple of guys that are hardcore straight edge followers and they do believe that they're better than most other people. From what I understand, it's a fairly common view held by some that follow the philosophy. Now, I don't know whether CM Punk is really that militant in real life or not but behaving as such as a pro wrestler just makes him a natural heel.

One of the most common qualities that makes a great heel is arrogance, putting down the fans and going on and on about how much better you are than anyone else in general. A militant straight edge philosophy can fit that description of a wrestling heel to a T. Punk's heat with the crowd has been among the best of any heel in the business this year. After coming out to Jeff Hardy's music and dressed like him the week after he defeated him in their last match on Smackdown, the look on the crowd's face once they realized it wasn't Hardy was golden. The camera got shots of people with absolutely murderous looks on their faces, kids were crying, teens were irate and adults looked like they were ready to jump over the barricade and rip Punk apart. Punk as a heel has elevated his career to another level overall.

 

[TLC]

Punk as a heel is great as of when he just started, his fued with Hardy was superb, best of this year so far. It is the straight edge character which makes him so good because the people I know whom are straight edge look down on us just for having the occasional drink and it pisses me off that he comes off as arrogant. He looks like an asshole as well which is high its so good, I hate him because of that beard he's got, think him and Mike Knox should form a tag team. Anyway back on topic, he is a much better heel than face because lets put it straight he sucked as a face, I just couldn't get into him as one, he just gave off an assholeish vibe.

His promo's have been great since he turned, although I must admit they are getting very tedious now, as he seems to say the same things week in, week out, still its better than him as face. Hopefully this fued with R Truth will be good, at the very least decent, R Truth is good and is over with the crowd should be used better than he does. Plus with Punk in the fued and pulling of good promos then R Truth should be able to counter that.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I understand why you guys (and many others) like Punk's heel promos, they ARE good. However.... there are people in real life who are straight-edge but are NOT acting like they are better than everyone else. I am speaking as one of them. I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I waited until I was 21 to drink (rarely ever drink). When people try to get me to do any of the above I just say "no thanks, I don't do that stuff.... I'm straight-edge."

When faces have told Punk things like "a world full of straight-edges would be boring" or "get a life" or saying it makes him a nerd.... that stuff really ticked me off because it was the same type of remarks that people told me before college, I was being put down for simply saying "no" to the partying lifestyle.

Imagine now if a teen straight-edge (one who's NOT judgemental.) was watching ECW tuesday. He would be relating to Punk because Punk too is straight-edge. He might have thought Christian was cool too, until Christian put down Punk's lifestyle. Yes I know Christian is a face and the faces are supposed to make fun of the heels, but still.... You shouldn't put down the lifestyle. The worst of all was Tiffany. Telling Punk that he needs to have a life? Come on, that's below the belt.

Tiffany (hot female face) saying things like that to Punk (heel straightedge) reminded me of the way girls often treated me when I was younger. I still to this day avoid women who party for that reason. There are good young men in the world who go through things like that every day. Putting down Punk's philosophy of "just saying no" is putting down THAT group of people as well.

Punk's heel promos may be good, but his lifestyle should NOT be made to look bad. There are a lot of straight-edges out there who are NOT judgemental. We just have a strong dislike towards the partying lifestyle. That is our choice, it should NOT be made to look bad.

Those who think "all straight-edges are judgemental", did you ever stop to think that maybe they became that way because of how they are put down so much for simply saying "no"?

THAT is why Punk should not be a heel.
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[Jack-Hammer]

I understand why you guys (and many others) like Punk's heel promos, they ARE good. However.... there are people in real life who are straight-edge but are NOT acting like they are better than everyone else. I am speaking as one of them. I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I waited until I was 21 to drink (rarely ever drink). When people try to get me to do any of the above I just say "no thanks, I don't do that stuff.... I'm straight-edge."

So what? As I said in my post, there are those that are straight edge that do behave the way that CM Punk is behaving as far as his on screen character is concerned. Punk is using the negativity towards others and arrogance that some straight edge have and is applying it to his own character.

When faces have told Punk things like "a world full of straight-edges would be boring" or "get a life" or saying it makes him a nerd.... that stuff really ticked me off because it was the same type of remarks that people told me before college, I was being put down for simply saying "no" to the partying lifestyle.

The fact that CM Punk's on screen character endorses a philosophy of arrogance that's sometimes associated with the movement that you don't like doesn't mean that he shouldn't be a heel. He takes certain aspects of real life that he's familiar with and uses those aspects to generate heat. That's what a heel is supposed to do. Back in the day, Ric Flair used to cut promos on how much money he had, his tailor made expensive clothes, the fine women he'd bed every night, etc. and it got him over as a heel because his character emphasized that these things made him better than other wrestlers and the fans themselves.

Punk's heel promos may be good, but his lifestyle should NOT be made to look bad. There are a lot of straight-edges out there who are NOT judgemental. We just have a strong dislike towards the partying lifestyle. That is our choice, it should NOT be made to look bad.

So, what if an African American viewer doesn't like to see Cryme Tyme portrayed as young thugs embracing the hip hop movement? What if some viewers become upset because Triple H calls the Big Show fat? Please, you need to give the general wrestling audience some credit. All it takes to know that all those of the straight edge philosophy don't behave as CM Punk's character does is a little common sense. Some Christians endorse killing doctors that perform abortions, but common sense tells you that there are also Christians that don't.

 

[gd]

He character works fine either way. He can play the goody two shoes as a face or the guy pushing his beliefs on you heel. Sure, it can be odd and times, but they aren't really glorifying drugs and alcohol by having Punk as a heel. It's the manner in which he does it, saying that anyone who drinks is going to hell and stuff like that. Punk is a solid heel and isn't corrupting America's youth or anything like that by saying what he does.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Punk is using the negativity towards others and arrogance that some straight edge have and is applying it to his own character.

That part I don't have as much of an issue against. His promos are good, perhaps I should have worded my argument better. It's the way the faces are treating him that bugs me.

The fact that CM Punk's on screen character endorses a philosophy of arrogance that's sometimes associated with the movement that you don't like doesn't mean that he shouldn't be a heel. He takes certain aspects of real life that he's familiar with and uses those aspects to generate heat. That's what a heel is supposed to do. Back in the day, Ric Flair used to cut promos on how much money he had, his tailor made expensive clothes, the fine women he'd bed every night, etc. and it got him over as a heel because his character emphasized that these things made him better than other wrestlers and the fans themselves.

I agree with you there, actually. That kind of promo does make them good heels.... like I said earlier though it's the remarks from the faces that are bugging me a whole lot more.

So, what if an African American viewer doesn't like to see Cryme Tyme portrayed as young thugs embracing the hip hop movement?

Wouldn't surprise me at all.... However, I can't remember them being put down for their hiphop/thug lifestyle nearly as much as Punk has been for not partying. Plus they are faces.

What if some viewers become upset because Triple H calls the Big Show fat?

I see how that would offend people as well. Same argument applies here though as it did for Cryme Tyme. Other than the fact that Big Show is a heel and Cryme Tyme are faces.

Please, you need to give the general wrestling audience some credit. All it takes to know that all those of the straight edge philosophy don't behave as CM Punk's character does is a little common sense. Some Christians endorse killing doctors that perform abortions, but common sense tells you that there are also Christians that don't.

Like I said before. I should have worded my argument better. Putting someone down for not partying is what's wrong here, not Punk being judgemental. If he were a face and those remarks were made towards him, it'd be different because then it would be like the real life scenario of the non-partiers having to stand up to the people who make their lives miserable.

Re-watch the segments of ECW last night and see for yourself. Christian and Tiffany's remarks towards Punk sounded like something heels should be saying to faces. The same can almost be said for R-Truth. Not Hardy since he was so over at the time, but still. Do you understand what I'm getting at now? I can see the points your making, but felt I needed to say mine again so that they would make more sense. I'm willing to debate this further if you still disagree.
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["Cool Guy" Jensen]

I see what you are tryint to say, but I wouldn't exactly use the words that you used. C.M. Punk as a heel, shows a straight-edge man putting over his "correct" lifestyle, making it seem like he is "better than everyone else." You are upset because of the way faces like Jeff Hardy, R-Truth, and Christian is treating him for his lifestyle. While, I see what you are saying...

All I can say is that the faces say those things about C.M. Punk simply because they don't think he has to continue talking about the way he lives. His lifestyle does not give him the right to say that he is "better than everyone else". Being straight-edge was a choice... made by C.M. Punk. Deciding not to be straight-edge is another choice, and that was likely the point that Hardy, Truth, and Christian were trying to make.

C.M. Punk is doing just fine as a heel. He shouldn't go face just because faces are "making fun of the way he lives his life". It's always been a face's job to make fun of a heel for whatever reason. They are just continuing that same trend, except now, it is with C.M. Punk.

 

[JBK2008]

I know a few straight edge people and for the most part, they are self absorbed jackasses. That said, I don't mind CM Punk being a heel with this gimmick. However, he just isn't a believable heel. His look just doesn't say "Hey you s.o.b's I'm the bad guy!" He should be face again, but with all the heat that he's attained, I just can't see it happening anytime soon. Perhaps when Jericho rids himself of the Unified Tag Team Titles, he can jump into the main event spot and take Punk's heat so he can go face again. We'll see.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

CM Punk is the best heel in wrestling today. How can you say he shouldn't be heel? He's ten times more over than he's ever been, he's had title reigns and matches with Undertaker at PPV's. CM Punk's heel tactics are as old school as they get. He's saying he's better than the fans, which irks fans to no end. Ric Flair did it, Harley Race did that before he did, and HHH did it in Evolution. It's the old addage, "If it's not broken, it doesn't need fixed." And there's no need for him to be face when there are plenty of faces on Smackdown. And if there's not, there are better candidates to turn face than Punk. Right now, his character is the best thing going right now and although he was a good face, there's no need for him to go back to being a face before Wrestlemania.

 

[jayteeERA]

You are correct! Punk is the last person in WWE to turn face. He is good at it and funny. I hope he can be a mega heel like edge was. I just love how a wrestler can take his goody two shoes gimmick and flip it around. I remember sable did something like this in the attitude ERA. Went from "Im smoking hot and sweet and kind" into "Im smoking hot and better than all of you." Back to the topic. Yes the gimmick is suppose to be a good role models for kids, but its the WWE. (even tho its PG) Look at Stone Cold. One of the greatest faces of all time, but not a good role model for kids.

 

[Pestilence]

I think it's only a matter of time until he gets back up there because he has all the potential in the world. Plus, we know he can work great as a face or a heel.

 

[Pestilence]

I believe that he should be whatever they and creative want to be. My reasoning is that most of the time, whether the wrestler originally wanted to switch, they come out a more rounded wrestler in ring and out. Also they are usually happy with the overall product.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I think Punk is a good main event heel. If he stays heel, he could be one of the best in the company. He has a good arrogant-type character and is entertaining on the mic. I think the biggest thing holding Punk down is the fact he doesn't seem to be well liked backstage. Every other day it seems like I am reading another article about backstage heat involving Punk. I hope all of that B.S. passes and he continues to improve year in and year out.

 

[DugoutDan17]

I deffinatly prefer CM Punk as a heel, i think some of his work as a heel as been right up there with Chris Jericho and Randy Orton this year, i never really liked CM Punk a whole lot as a face, yea i didnt mind him but i think hes had better matches as a heel and his character is alot more suited to a heel character.

I think he must have upset some of the wwe management tho in recent weeks because of the way he has been booked and especially after being squashed by John Cena on raw last week in under 2 mins.

Altho he isnt being booked as strongly as he was previous in the year i think CM Punk could have some great storylines coming up, with the likes of Rey Mysterio, John Morrison (i no some of these have been done before but not as punk as the heel), Edge (if he comes back as a face and after hes finished with Jericho) I think Punk will get back to the bigger and better storylines in 2010 or atleast i hope so because the character of being Straight Edged works great for a heel.

 

[MoneyMack]

I decided not to even ready anything in this thread besides the original post & the last page of posts. I find this totally ridiculous to even be asked. I don't care who he's feuding with at the time- I totally agree with Lariat: CM Punk is the best heel in the business right now!

I say right now because I think Jericho being in Jerishow(as champs)- hurt his "stock" as the top heel. But I definitely have Jericho & Punk on the same level of heel right now. Also Edge when he was healthy- was the top heel in WWE for at least 2 full years (no jericho for most of it) EASILY! Why did CM Punk go heel in the 1st place?? Cuz Edge went down with injury. Punk was "thrown to the wolves" so to speak, as a heel- at that point. How did he react to the pressure? He fuckin KILLED it!!

SO- keep CM Punk heel. Don't even think about turning him face for quite a while (at least a full year- if not 2 or more) They've given him a "bodyguard" type in Gallows. I say add to it- Bring Mike Knox into the group too. As if Punk doesn't have enough heat already... Put 2 monsters behind him and just sit back & watch Punk do his thing! CM Punk would be "untouchable" at that point. I wouldn't mind adding more guys then just Knox too. Make it a 4 or 5 person intervention- but there is another thread for that. So I'll stop now!