Intercontinental championship

[Lee]

I've been thinking all week about the intercontinental championship after our "fan" Santino Marella won the championship on his WWE debut.

My original thinking was this...the belt is of some sort of presigue and is the stepping stone to the bigger goal, the WWE championship. Then I investigated...

There have been a total of 59 recognized champions who have had a combined 114 official reigns. 14 of these champions went on to be world chamion, that leaves 45 who never did. these are Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Savage, The Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, Rob Van Dam and Booker T.

There have been some dire moment like warrior winning in 31 seconds and have been some bad champs;
But apart from the 'greats' that have held it there have been not so greats...
chyna, the Godfather, D'Lo Brown, Albert, Test, Carlito and Billy Gunn need I go on?

I think there is a great sense of nostalgia here but when you actually look at it the intercontinental championship is not that great.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Actually you are partially right in what you said. it did/does lead to bigger things, not nescissarily a World Title, maybe the main Event. It can lead you to be a Big name in yourself even if you don't win the Title, look at Razor Ramon he went onto bigger things in the nWo. so it can be a stepping stone. It is interesting though that only 14 made it to World champion, but did you include those who won another world title that was not in the WWE, like the NWA or WCW. because you could add Ricky Steamboat into that list with his NWA title run at one stage.

 

[Lee]

It's just including those who went onto win the WWF/WWE title, it does lead to bigger things as my initial thinking does, but it has been exaggerated about how great the belt is. I know that was the case for me anyways it was this amazing championship that actually isn't that great and hasn''t been since the attitude area. before then we had great feuds for it, just look at HBK vs Razor Ramon That was a feud and a half, but now we have Umaga defend twice lose it to a random guy.

 

[herooftime]

i have mix feelings about the ic title now. when i first started watching wrestleing i thought of the ic title as u guys did, the steping stone title to the wwe championship. i have always thought the the best mid card wrestlers got that title and you saw some great matches.

the story diffrent now. the ic title is rarely defended and i have yet to see it put on the line at wrestlemaina in 5 years. i think wreslters link shelton, nitro,masters, carlito, matt or jeff hardy should how the title for 2 reasons: 1. is that they are mid card wrestlers that will put the title on the line and use it to spring board to wwe title. 2: you actually saw great matches when the title were in there hands. like shelton and nitro are both amazing wrestlers and when they had there ic title reighn they were amazing to watch, carlito and masters could use the title to get back on the right track and the and if the hardys ever break up then the ic title can be used the same.


over all i am very disapointed with how the title is being used. i was so looking foward to a nitro jeff ic match at wm

 

[County4]

Actually the I.C Championship is the Stepping Stone to the World Championship it's just a test on how people react towards the New Champion and if the Champion is eligble for the WWE Championship.

The I.C Championship is taken seriously and for those of you who think that it is being mis-used well it's not and for the Case of it not being defended at WrestleMania in over 5 years it's not that WWE takes it as the Small Championship it's just that WWE does not have enough space on the Card to add an I.C Championship Match.

But,yes it is being Mis-used in some Cases about WrestleMania Im 50-50 but on that Santino Mortella or whatever guy winning the Championship it really sucks, A Fan winning the WWE Intercontinental Championship which used to be the Championship in the hands of Shawn Micheals,Bret Hart and Steve Austin?!?! It's really surprising to see that Mcmahon actually let an unknown win the Championship.

The Title is being Mis-used sometimes but still it remains the Great Championship Belt because of it's history and don't get so upset we will see new and good I.C Champions sometime soon..

 

[Lee]

it's just that WWE does not have enough space on the Card to add an I.C Championship Match.

wrestlemania 23; The Great Khali vs Kane, Melina vs Ashley
wrestlemania 22; Torrie Wilson vs Candice Michelle in a Playboy Pillow fight
wrestlemania 21; Akebono vs The Big Show Sumo match, also pipers pit with Austin
wrestlemania 20; Torrie Wilson,Sable vs Stacy Keibler and Miss Jackie in a Playboy Evening Gown Match

You get the point, to me the IC belt is worth more than the Cruiserweight, US and womens title yet they've all been defended, it's not a lack of time at all as the above matches clearly show

 

[EP Punk]

The last five years, the I-C title has definitely seemed to drain in importance. It looked like there may be a resurgence for a bit, when guys like carlito, Nitro, Hardy and Benjamin switched the title back and forth and had some great matches...I could pretty much see that was going to stop once the Samoan Bullshitter won the title from Jeff. This is one of the huge problems with the tri-bran system...3 world titles, one of which seems to be on every damn show, kinda pushes the I-C title to the back burner...if it's evben still on the stove. Hopefully, Santino Marella will bring some better matches into the I-C title picture. He seems to be the type that would compliment Johnny Nitro quite well...and btw..why isn't Kenny Dykstra getting a I-C push? He should be in the picture too

 

[JoshK1985]

Flameboy, I have the exact same feeling as you about this situation. I'm not so pissed that it was put on Santino as for the fact that his first match in WWE... I don't know this guy from shit so why does he deserve the title? I mean he may be a good champion I don't know, and hell he might become a World Champion one day who knows but as of right now this title reign is total disrespect to this title....

 

[Prax]

There have been some dire moment like warrior winning in 31 seconds and have been some bad champs;
But apart from the 'greats' that have held it there have been not so greats...
chyna, the Godfather, D'Lo Brown, Albert, Test, Carlito and Billy Gunn need I go on?

I think there is a great sense of nostalgia here but when you actually look at it the intercontinental championship is not that great.

Before I get to my main point, I'd like to say I have no problem with most of th enames you named of former I.C. Champs. Chyna proved she could wrestle with the big boys, and although her winning the title was kinda fluky, I don't think it was completely unwarranted. The Godfather was a gimmick, but he was also a good wrestler with a good style that I thoroughly enjoyed watching. D'Lo Brown was very unerrated. Test deserved to wrestle for that title hands down, as did Billy Gunn, no question about it. Albert and Carlito are further down the totem pole but by no means do I think they never deserved to have at least a run at the title.

Now moving on... I agree that I think the I.C. Championship should be just a step below the World Championship/WWE Championship, kind of like the US title was when it was back in WCW, but at the same time, you need to give the lower card wrestlers a chance to hold some gold. You need to give those wrestlers a chance to shine and be in the spotlight, wrestlers that would otherwise never get a chance to be in the spotlight anyway.

Think about it... just a little while ago we were complaining that the Tag Championships were stuck in the main event picture... yet now you're asking for the I.C Championship to be further up the card, and to be a stepping stone to the World Championship, or just about in a main even status. It's kind of hypocritical.

I think it's more necessary to have the I.C. championship a little further down the card for said reasons. Then again, that's what the European championship was made for a while ago... but it failed for reasons not pertaining to this thread. And with the brand extension, it would be impossible for them to introduce new belts to each show that are lower on the card without making the content a little more wishy washy.

So in closing, I'm not dissatisfied with the direction that belt has been going... they could be doing a little more with it, but I'm not dissatisfied. Like I said it needs to be a little further down the cards, the guys at the top don't need another belt, and the guys making it to the top will do so with time, with or without a secondary championship reign.

 

[Unrated Superstar]

I personally don't have a problem with the IC title being lower on the card, in fact I'm all for it. I was a little irked by a "fan" becoming the champion though. But hey, at least WWE made an attempt at having this situation make sense when they announced that Santino actually has been training to wrestle so he knows what he's doing. And I guess as long as he makes a fighting champion I don't have a big problem with it.

But some of the people who are fighting for the IC championship, I kind of wish we could see them competing for the WWE championship. Guys like Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, Johnny Nitro, Carlito (say what you will about him, he's grown on me), and maybe even Ric Flair. Hell, I guess that's every past IC champion in the past 2 and a half years except Umaga (he's ok, I just don't find him THAT entertaining). I think all of them have proven they're worthy of being WWE champion, and I find all of them to be very entertaining.

But no, we have to have to have John Cena of all people at the top, being put over like no one has been put over before.

It's not an ideal world.

 

[Rabbid Wolverine]

i think when they actually changed the titles, it lost its momentum. the title juss looked weird, like they made it smaller than the title they use to use in the early 90's. which kinda made it look less prestigious i think.

i guess juss some wrestlers dont get the respect they deserve becuz they're not that good on the mic. like shelton bejamin, matt hardy, jeff may win the title some day down the line if he stays with wwe....so i guess theres juss a few every couple of years.

 

[Lee]

Now moving on... I agree that I think the I.C. Championship should be just a step below the World Championship/WWE Championship, kind of like the US title was when it was back in WCW, but at the same time, you need to give the lower card wrestlers a chance to hold some gold. You need to give those wrestlers a chance to shine and be in the spotlight, wrestlers that would otherwise never get a chance to be in the spotlight anyway.

That's my point is that on investigation it wasn't a high card belt as I actually thought but a mid card, I'm happy with it being mid card and agree with you on this point. Lets see if this 'fan' can produce

 

[Shadowmancer]

IF they decided that now was the time to bring him up from OVW than he should be able to produce a halfway decent match. There is one problem though with the IC title now, it has lost prestige from being the top second tier title in the WWE, to being what it is now. with the exception of Umaga the title reigns have started bringing some prestige back to the belt. Umaga didn't defend it so he couldn't bring prestige to the belt in anyway and somewhat devalued it by going into Wrestlemania with it and not defending it.

 

[Lee]

but like we discussed before that's been the case for 5 years, then that was the opening match of the night.

I would liek to see fueds for it because Umaga for it was a bit of a waste with BOTB going on at the same time.

 

[Shadowmancer]

I was not meaning the defending of it in a defending way, but it was put on Umaga, just so it could be a clash of champions. Because I would have thought that they would have tried to recreate Ricky Steamboat/Randy savage type match at WM. But it was devalued by just putting it on Umaga for the BotB.

 

[Lee]

ah right makes sense now. I was so annoyed when he got it yet annoyed when he lost it, it's just crazy. But yeah this new guy has promise, he must have or else they wouldnt have made him chap, then again they did that with carlito.

 

[A.J.]

The IC belt was a stepping stone and a way to see if a guy had what it takes to main event and maybe down the road carry the company as the Champ. But nowadays itsjust a pointless title that gets passed aroudn from whoever creative falls in love with. It still needs to be a stepping stone belt but only guys who been aroudn a whileand lookingto make the jump from open card ot mid-card player with hope of being a main eventer and even carry the compnay as champ.

 

[emceelokey]

To me all of the belts have lost a lot of their value over the past decade. Here's my reasonings.

- In the mid 90's the WWF started adding more belts or at least featuring more belts during their broadcasts. When I first became a wrestling fan there were only the Heavyweight, IC and ta titles with the occasional Womens championship bout for a major PPV. During the mid 90's though, they had the Light Heavyweight, European, and Hardcore which would total 7 different belts that could be defended on one promotion. Also remember that both shows were intergrated. They couls have rap ppvs where every match was a title defense, but they didn't and that in return made other belts look frivolous.

- The constant belt switching during the late 90's. During the Monday Night Wars both WWF and WCW pretty much used the belts as cheap wasy to grab ratings. Some of those belts swiched hands more during that era than they did in the past decade. Plus belts changed hands in questionable ways which made all belts prestige suffer as a cansequence.

- The merging of all of the companies and the belts within them. Granted some of the belts were dropped but even with both Smackdown and Raw having essentially a Main, Mid, and Tag with a 4th belt (Womens/ Cruiser Weight) per each show, Both shows are still on the same company. There's no real debate on who's the better draw since they all end up on the same shows anyway.

There's just too many belts and not enough prestige to spread around. Only people that really follow wrestling know who's champ and even I get lost with who's holding what belt right now. Thas wasn't the case back in the 80's though. In the 80's anyone that watched would be able to at least dientify who was the champion at any time and when the title changed hands it was a big deal. It was either Macho Man, Warrior, Rude, Perfect and so on. Now you have to know what show what belt is on and actually have to follow the belt to know who's holding it.

 

[Jonny B]

There's just too many belts and not enough prestige to spread around.

Your argument was solid until that point, I couldn't agree less with that statement. Look at this from another point of view, technically RAW, Smackdown and ECW are separate companies, although under the same banner, they are supposed to be completely different entities on their own. Now if you look back, lets say to early 1999 when you had the WWF, WCW and of course ECW. The WWF had around eight belts give or take, WCW had around the same number and ECW had three. So that’s around what eighteen or nineteen Championship belts, at a time when WWF and WCW had two hours of proper TV a week and ECW had a single hour. Now is very much the same, except for the Championship belts, RAW and Smackdown have four each, with two of those belts not being able to be contested by all of the roster, and ECW has only one belt.

Okay I know I went on a tad there, but it was to make a point, the point is that RAW now only has Four Title Belts, the WWE Championship being its Main Belt, the Intercontinental Championship being its Mid-Card, the Tag Titles going around the Lower Mid-Carders and obviously the Women’s Championship. Now look back to the WWE before, because they had so many, the IC was the second highest belt (as it is today on RAW) but because they had so many belts below it (with the European and the Hardcore) the IC belt had to seem more important because they were forced to put it on the people that were just about to make it into the Main Event, or at least not far off that stage.

It is true that at one stage having the IC belt did mean you were effectively the number one contender for the WWF Championship, however times have changed, and I don’t feel the WWE are misusing the belt at all, rather using it in a different manner than they did before, using it as a belt to put younger talent over. The reason IC Champs over the last few years have not gone on to the World Champions is not because the IC Belt means nothing, but rather because the WWE is rather inept at building new talent. Although I think it’s a sure bet that Umaga will hold the WWE Championship within the next 18 months.

The belt isn’t meaningless, the WWE have just changed the meaning of the belt.

EDIT: Post 666, spooky.

 

[emceelokey]

Maybe prestige isin't the correct word. Prestige is brought on by the talent behind the belt and it's more likely a lack of bonafied talent than the belt not being worth much. The belt is a belt but the people behing the belt is what makes it prestigeous. The thing about the "different" brands is that they can place whoever in whatever brand when they want and you'll just end up getting different people in the same position they were in on the other show just with a different belt.

My major problem with the IC in particular was how much it changed from like '99 to 2004. It pretty much changed once a month during that time. Now they've brought it dow to about 5-6 times a year which is better but not too much.

 

[llcj07]

If Santino can win the IC Strap, I think Funaki is our next WWE Champion.

 

[The Canadian Crippler]

llcj07.....appearantly u don't watch anything but wwe....it's obvious......because u don't know who santino is...

 

[justinsayne]

There have been a total of 59 recognized champions who have had a combined 114 official reigns. 14 of these champions went on to be world chamion, that leaves 45 who never did. these are Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Savage, The Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, Rob Van Dam and Booker T.

You forgot Kane in the list of superstars, that have won the IC and WWE title, and if you look at your list then I beleive you may have mis-counted, you say that only 14 have won the WWE and IC title but you have 15 names listed, and with the addition of Kane to that list it brings it to 16, and yes the IC title is a stepping stone, it's also a way of trying out somebody to see how they react and carry themselves as a champion, though the title has lost alot of the prestige that it once held, I think that it still is an important title, and that it is possiable to reatablish that pestige that it once held, they just need the right people in creative and give the belt to people that can take it to the next level, I thought they were doing that with Nitro, and Jeff Hardy, oh and I just remembered that Ric Flair has won it also so that brings the number of guys that have won both the IC and WWE titles to 17

 

[Mackdaddy]

I am disappointed in The WWE's decision to NOT let Santina Marella appear on Raw i expected to see our IC champ on Raw how stupid are they!!?. I hope he defends it sometime in 2007. I wonder if he can actually wrestle.

 

[ErkBono23]

I am disappointed in The WWE's decision to NOT let Santina Marella appear on Raw i expected to see our IC champ on Raw how stupid are they!!?. I hope he defends it sometime in 2007. I wonder if he can actually wrestle.

Hmmm well they aren't very stupid because he clearly appeared..not in person..but he appeared and announced he will be defending the IC title next week on raw..where were you when that happened??!?!..Yes of course he can wrestler..if you have done any research on this wrestler he was the man who got slapped by Jim Cornette...he has skills...do your research before asking questions that u should know that answer to...