Who Is The Best Intercontinental Champion of All Time?

[Emmet]

You just said above he was #2, I believe. Impossible, when Shawn's #1, and there are a few other people who had better reigns that he did.



You spew out so much nonsense I don't stop to believe you. When you start handing me proof for all this, maybe I will. But tell me, ladder match, to all normal fans (I define normal as not blind Hart fans), who is remembered for them? Bret Hart sat in the back watching, or Shawn Michaels being out there and making it happen?

Oh, and him match against Piper is one of the most overrated. It was good. But not great. And Shawns whole IC reigns screamed great at us.

Your calling me a Blind Hart fan?Your a bigger blind HBK fan than I am with Bret. Bret went to Vince in mid 1992 I think and said he should let Bret do a ladder match. Vince was sold on the idea and Bret said he would do one with HBK. Which they did. It was on a house show I think. I cant remember Bret's exact words but he said in his book that the finish for the HBK-Ramon WM X match was the exact same finish as the match them 2 had had 2 years before. Something to that extent anyway. The ladder match came from Bret. Everyone knows that by now.

Who else other than Ramon did HBK defend the title against? Im at a loss.

Perfect>Bret>HBK.

Thats not me by biased. Thats just what I think is right.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Your calling me a Blind Hart fan?Your a bigger blind HBK fan than I am with Bret.

I've changed my mind. THAT is the most stupid thing I've ever seen on these forums. If I was one of those blind, typical HBK fans I'd hate Bret Hart. Yet, I'm very respectful of him, and love his work. The same cannot be said for you.

Bret went to Vince in mid 1992 I think and said he should let Bret do a ladder match. Vince was sold on the idea and Bret said he would do one with HBK. Which they did. It was on a house show I think. I cant remember Bret's exact words but he said in his book that the finish for the HBK-Ramon WM X match was the exact same finish as the match them 2 had had 2 years before. Something to that extent anyway. The ladder match came from Bret. Everyone knows that by now.

Oh wait, maybe that is. If you like, I'll quote pieces of Shawns book all about Bret. Can you see why there may be a problem here? And as I said before, tell me then, why there's a reason people talk about SHAWN'S revolutionary ladder matches, as opposed to what Hart has done. He is everything that's right with a ladder match, and everything that's right with the Intercontinental champion. People cared a great deal more when Shawn was champion.

 

[Emmet]

I've changed my mind. THAT is the most stupid thing I've ever seen on these forums. If I was one of those blind, typical HBK fans I'd hate Bret Hart. Yet, I'm very respectful of him, and love his work. The same cannot be said for you.



Oh wait, maybe that is. If you like, I'll quote pieces of Shawns book all about Bret. Can you see why there may be a problem here? And as I said before, tell me then, why there's a reason people talk about SHAWN'S revolutionary ladder matches, as opposed to what Hart has done. He is everything that's right with a ladder match, and everything that's right with the Intercontinental champion. People cared a great deal more when Shawn was champion.

I dont like HBK's work because IMO it aint as good as its made out to be. Good yes, sometimes even brillant. as good as Hart's? nope. Defintely not.

Why quote HBK's book? is his book honest? damn right it aint. Brets is if nothing honest, brutally honest at times. HBK's book is shit compared to Brets. Bret gives Shawn alot of credit in his book, you havent even read it yet, so I suggest you buy it and read it and you will be blown away by it. If Bret says something in his book about anyone. I would take it to be the truth.

As for the IC belt. Who remembers HBK's reigns other than them 2 ladder matches against Hall?I know I dont. Did HBK ever sell out a stadium the size of Wembley? or even half of it? Nope. Bret did. Granted all not by himself. But his match was last, and for the IC title and he got 2nd biggest pop of that night only to Davey Boy. They put on a classic match and Davey couldnt remember any of the spots during the match so Bret had to call the entire match. That is greatness my young friend

 

[HBK-aholic]

I dont like HBK's work because IMO it aint as good as its made out to be.

So you chose not to like him because other people do? LOL. Every time I read a post about this, I change my mind on the most stupid thing ever said.

Good yes, sometimes even brillant. as good as Hart's? nope. Defintely not.

Damn. Finally, some respect. Was it that hard?

Why quote HBK's book? is his book honest? damn right it aint. Brets is if nothing honest, brutally honest at times.

Ah. I spoke too soon. I could say Shawns book is honest. And you wouldn't be able to prove a damn the other way.

HBK's book is shit compared to Brets. Bret gives Shawn alot of credit in his book, you havent even read it yet, so I suggest you buy it and read it and you will be blown away by it.

I probably will be, yes. I can't wait to read it. But Shawns could never be shit.

If Bret says something in his book about anyone. I would take it to be the truth.

I'd take what Shawn says to be truth as well.

As for the IC belt. Who remembers HBK's reigns other than them 2 ladder matches against Hall?I know I dont. Did HBK ever sell out a stadium the size of Wembley? or even half of it? Nope. Bret did. Granted all not by himself. But his match was last, and for the IC title and he got 2nd biggest pop of that night only to Davey Boy. They put on a classic match and Davey couldnt remember any of the spots during the match so Bret had to call the entire match. That is greatness my young friend

Regarding drawing, it can't really be used when discussing the IC title. You have to look at everything else going on at the time. The WWE championship is the main focus, and due to that the IC champion takes a back seat. Therefore, this argument cannot be used in favour of Shawn or Bret. What we can look at it how good the matches are, and who got the loudest pops. Something I think Shawn walks away with.

Talk about greatness, Shawn had a good match with The Great Khali *Huge Shocked face*. That's greatness my not-so-young friend

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm going to use a write in vote here for Razor Ramon. He was the IC champion I believe four times which was at the time a record, and other than a three day reign, held it a minimum of three months each time. He always was at the top of the mid card, which is what I think the championship is all about. Hall always seemed happy being the champion and never really made the jump to the world title picture. He was the intercontinental champion, and that was all he needed to be. The title just fit him so well. The perfect champion to me: Had good matches, good feuds, elevated other guys, overall just right for the title.

 

[Emmet]

So you chose not to like him because other people do? LOL. Every time I read a post about this, I change my mind on the most stupid thing ever said.



Damn. Finally, some respect. Was it that hard?



Ah. I spoke too soon. I could say Shawns book is honest. And you wouldn't be able to prove a damn the other way.




I probably will be, yes. I can't wait to read it. But Shawns could never be shit.



I'd take what Shawn says to be truth as well.




Regarding drawing, it can't really be used when discussing the IC title. You have to look at everything else going on at the time. The WWE championship is the main focus, and due to that the IC champion takes a back seat. Therefore, this argument cannot be used in favour of Shawn or Bret. What we can look at it how good the matches are, and who got the loudest pops. Something I think Shawn walks away with.

Talk about greatness, Shawn had a good match with The Great Khali *Huge Shocked face*. That's greatness my not-so-young friend

Shawn isnt honest though, its not in his DNA to be honest, hes a lying little prick and is and always will be a snake.As well as his bum boy HHH.

As for pops, even when HBK was champ I doubt he was that over with the crowd. Although I could be wrong but I dont think.

Bret got a good match out of Kane when he was a dentist! Beat that!

(btw I love how every thread me and you participate in turns into a Bret vs HBK thread )

 

[IrishCanadian25]

As for pops, even when HBK was champ I doubt he was that over with the crowd. Although I could be wrong but I dont think.

We gathered.

Let's look at this Hart vs Michaels Intercontinental Title battle by the numbers, now, shall we?

Bret Hart

Total Number of Reigns - 2
Total Number of Days as Champion - 290 days (tied for 14th all time)
Average Length per Reign - 145 days

Shawn Michaels

Total Number of Reigns - 3
Total Number of Days as Champion - 406 (tied for 8th all time)
Average Length per Reign - 135.33 days

Ok, math fans, that means less than 10 days difference between Hart and Michaels in the "Average Length" category.

Hart defeated Curt Henning (on the list) for his first IC Title, and Roddy Piper (not on the list) for his 2nd. One win was at SummerSlam, one was at WrestleMania.

Michaels defeated Davey Boy Smith (on the list) for his first title on a Saturday Night's Main Event, defeated Marty Jannetty (not on the list) for his 2nd reign at a house show, and Jeff Jarrett (not on the list) at an In Your House for #3. He was never beaten for the title the 3rd time, technically, since he had to vacate it.

Two of HBK's Intercontinental Title Matches were PWI Matches of the Year - on Raw against Jannetty and at WrestleMania 10 against Razor Ramon.

One of Bret's Intercontinental Title Matches was a PWI Match of the Year - against Davey Boy Smith.

Ironically, with 3 MOTY's for the IC Title between the two of them, Bret and Shawn were 0-3 in IC Title MOTY's.

Fact is, I don't see how you can definitively choose between the two of them. Both men launched themselves into the atmosphere with the IC Title, and the title benefitted from both men.

 

[mvk112]

This thread really disappoints me as to where the current IC stands. There are some great wrestlers that have held this title, and gone on to great things. And there were routinely some of the greatest matches for the IC title, from Savage-Steamboat at WM3 to the matches mentioned in the above post that won the PWI match of the year.

This is where the brand split really hurts, in my opinion. There just isn't the depth required to have a strong 2nd champion, anybody who looks like a good candidate is thrust right into the main event/world title scene. Look at the younger guys who are in the main event scene in the WWE, and their IC title reigns...

John Cena, 0 IC titles
Batista, 0 IC titles
CM Punk, 0 IC titles
Randy Orton, 1 IC title (210 days)
Vladimir Kozlov, 0 IC titles
Mr. Kennedy, 0 IC titles, 1 U.S. title

Rising up through the ranks and becoming the IC Champ builds the character and adds history. The guys above are big stars for the most part, but I think they would have been better served to come along a little more slowly, as was HBK, Bret Hart, Steve Austin (2 IC titles), The Rock (2 IC titles), Triple H (5 IC titles), and even Edge (5 IC titles).

I consider Bret Hart or HBK to be the best IC champ of all time, for alot of the reasons stated above. They had multiple lengthy reigns that included some of the greatest matches each year, at a time when that title meant alot.

 

[shafe_41]

The greatest IC champ of all time? There's so many names but I would like to throw in HBK as my pick. As for the ladder match at WM 10 being overrated, I can see that. It's tough for 2 people to put on a good ladder match and those 2 did a damn fine job IMO. Seeing as it was kinda the first one on a major scale, it sticks with people and they will remember it. It was amazing in my eyes, but I can also see why it can be seen as overrated since we've seen almost 15 years of ladder match evolution. Compared to todays, it wasn't amazing, but it was for its time.

Anyway, HBK is my choice simply because when I got into wrestling, I always seem to remember HBK running around with Sherri, being cocky, and sporting the IC title. He and Randy Orton really used that title to propel them to the top of their game and I believe they were the only two to really do so in the way the IC title is supposed to. Yes the same can be said for Bret Hart, but I never personally saw many matches with Bret and the IC title other than WM 8 match with Rowdy Roddy Piper. So my vote goes to HBK just because he had it a couple times to propel him to the top.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

This thread really disappoints me as to where the current IC stands. There are some great wrestlers that have held this title, and gone on to great things. And there were routinely some of the greatest matches for the IC title, from Savage-Steamboat at WM3 to the matches mentioned in the above post that won the PWI match of the year.

This is where the brand split really hurts, in my opinion. There just isn't the depth required to have a strong 2nd champion, anybody who looks like a good candidate is thrust right into the main event/world title scene. Look at the younger guys who are in the main event scene in the WWE, and their IC title reigns...

John Cena, 0 IC titles
Batista, 0 IC titles
CM Punk, 0 IC titles
Randy Orton, 1 IC title (210 days)
Vladimir Kozlov, 0 IC titles
Mr. Kennedy, 0 IC titles, 1 U.S. title

I really liked this post. So much so, that I am going to pick it apart a little bit, but it got me thinking...

Cena was a US Champion prior to his current status. So while he may not have held the IC Title, when Cena came up,the US Title was just Smackdown's version of Raw's IC Title.

Batista was a team-carrying tag champion while Orton was running around with the IC Title. He got the IC rub without the belt itself. And truth be told, since Orton was younger and not as green as Big Dave, I think Batista benefitted long term from teaming with Flair and having a safety net.

While I am discussing equivalencies, CM Punk was the ECW Champion, which I think is closer in stature to the IC and US Titles than it is to the WWE or WHC Titles. And with that belt, he got a mainstream feud with John Morrison, which feltlike an IC Title feud anyway.

Orton' IC Title reign is what launched him as a superstar. WIth that title reign he had classics with Edge, RVD, and earned respect against Foley. Then, WWE rushed his WHC reign to tke away the "youngest champ ever" from Brock Lesnar.

Kozlov I have nothing for you on. He's being packaged similar to Ludvig Borga.

Kennedy - same thing. US Title. See: John Cena.

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Top 3 for me:

3. HBK circa 1992-3. Looked great with the title. Perfect guy for it in that era. Memorable feuds with Rick Martel, Marty Jannetty and Razor Ramon. Very very good IC champ.

2. Ravishing Rick Rude. He beat Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania at a time when heels were seldom booked to win at big PPV events in the WWF. Tremendous heat in the feud with Warrior and he carried the roid-beast to some decent matches. Also, you gotta love how much Jesse Ventura loved Rude -- in his WCW run too.

1. Mr. Perfect. It was said by another poster. The IC Title was just made for Hennig's waist and he was born to wear it. A perfect match! He won it in perfect fashion by winning a tournament, and went on to have memorable matches with Texas Tornado and Bret Hart.

 

[ZEUS]

To me, it comes down to two guys, neither of whom made your list. Mr. Perfect, and "Ravishing" Rick Rude. Both guys were nearly flawless in the ring, and for the IC title, that is (or was) very important. They were also near the top of the heap in terms of character/mic work. Heck, Perfect feuded with Hogan while the Hulk was WHC, while holding down the IC title. If that doesn't give you an idea of how important Hennig was to the WWF, then you shouldn't be discussing wrestling. Rick Rude did the same thing as Hennig before Hennig got there. He was easily the best heel in the company while he was IC champ, and his feud with Warrior elevated Warrior to the level where he could win the World title from Hogan.

 

[ZEUS]

Bret got a good match out of Kane when he was a dentist! Beat that!

Not to mention Bret's match of the year candidate with a one eyed Pirate (Jean Pierre Lafitte).

 

[ZEUS]

When you start handing me proof for all this, maybe I will. But tell me, ladder match, to all normal fans (I define normal as not blind Hart fans), who is remembered for them? Bret Hart sat in the back watching, or Shawn Michaels being out there and making it happen?

It is common knowledge that Stampede Wrestling invented the ladder match, and Bret had dozens of classic ones with Dynamite Kid. It is also common knowledge that Bret introduced this concept to WWE. However, he never took part in a PPV or TV ladder match because once Vince saw how popular the HBK/Razor match was, he wanted to keep that as a part of those two guys gimmicks. How could he do that if he was putting Bret, or any other wrestlers in them. That is the same as wrestlers not doing another wrestlers signature moves, they call it gimmick infringement, and a professional does not partake in it. So, yes, Bret introduced the ladder match to WWF. He probably would have been the one to have the first ppv one if Vince didn't want Bret to go over Yoko at WM X.

 

[HBK-aholic]

When you start handing me proof for all this, maybe I will. But tell me, ladder match, to all normal fans (I define normal as not blind Hart fans), who is remembered for them? Bret Hart sat in the back watching, or Shawn Michaels being out there and making it happen?

It is common knowledge that Stampede Wrestling invented the ladder match, and Bret had dozens of classic ones with Dynamite Kid. It is also common knowledge that Bret introduced this concept to WWE. However, he never took part in a PPV or TV ladder match because once Vince saw how popular the HBK/Razor match was, he wanted to keep that as a part of those two guys gimmicks. How could he do that if he was putting Bret, or any other wrestlers in them. That is the same as wrestlers not doing another wrestlers signature moves, they call it gimmick infringement, and a professional does not partake in it. So, yes, Bret introduced the ladder match to WWF. He probably would have been the one to have the first ppv one if Vince didn't want Bret to go over Yoko at WM X.

Pretty sure you misunderstood my post. I'm not saying that Shawn brought the idea to the WWE, or mentioned it to Vince. What I'm saying is that Hart doesn't come to mind when you mention that match. It's HBK, for the IC championship, another reason why I think Shawn is the best one. That match is the one most ladder matches are compared to, with good reason. Bret Hart is a great wrestler, but when it comes to Ladder Matches it's Shawn all the way.

 

[Why Always Me]

Undecided. I do think it's one of the most overrated titles of all time though. If I had to pick a quick one off the top of my head I'd go with the Honky Tonk Man. I haven't really thought about it, but he's the first to spring to mind. I'm taking into account that his reign is the longest. I'm taking into account how hated he was, and how he lost it.

Everyone wanted to see him lose the title, he was annoying, poor in the ring. If you can you could say he didn't deserve the title. It was really supposed to be a long reign for Ricky Steamboat, and I believe that Savage was supposed to win it off him. He said no and as a result he got the WWE Championship instead. Or something like that.

Overall his reign was like JBL's only better executed. And the pop when The warrior won it was one of the best I've ever heard.

Why do you think it's one of the most overrated titles?

It's steeped in a lot of history, and their have been memorable feuds/matches for the belt, Steamboat/Savage, Bret Hart/Bulldog, The Rock/Triple H (my fav feud ever, Jericho/Benoit etc

My wish is for it to be unified with the US title and take up the same role to an undisputed world heayweight title like it did in the early 90's (Main-eventing WM6 and Summerslam 92')

 

[byrnside]

Of the guys on the list, I loved Bret Hart's, Randy Savage's, and Jericho's respective reigns. I have to agree with what a few people have said already, Randy Orton's reign was definitely the last example of "the system.." Rey had been a good choice to revive that tradition, but with this suspension thing, who knows? Hopefully now, Morrison will be another example, although I know he's held the title before, but now he's got some upper mid card experience.

I for one am confused why you didn't mention Perfect or Rude.. Maybe that's just the mark coming out in me? But I feel like both guys had some real classics as the IC champ. I guess Rude's reign wasn't that long, and maybe that's why he isn't listed. But Perfect had a decent length as champion, and absolutely carried on the tradition of bringing prestige to the belt. A few other notable candidates would have to be HBK and Razor.. Their feud over the belt made, me at least, at the time believe that that was the belt to have. The ladder match at Wrestlemania X is proof of that, I don't care what anyone says. I mean, HBK even went out of his way to make a fake belt, that's how prestigious it was.

 

[jazzer]

the greatest ic champ has to be mr perfect, how can you have chyna on the list and leave out curt henning, his old promos were classics

 

[carr360]

Hey new guy here, just happened to stumble onto the site. I'd like to throw in my two cents. The best IC champ of all time is Macho Man Randy Savage. No one in history has used that belt more to garner attention for himself (sorry Chyna fans, but who cares?), or use it as a stepping stone the WWf title quite like him. I also think that more people cared more about the IC strap in the 20-30 minutes he and Steamboat battled at WM3 than the entire 454 days that Honky held the belt. In alot of folks eyes that is the defining match for the IC belt. Honky never had anything close.

 

[Madico_Fs]

A Great IC champion was Triple H, he unified the IC title and the Worlds Title.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Whenever I think of the IC belt, the first name that jumps to mind is Mr. Perfect. If he wasn't so injury prone-demon-plagued, I really think he ends up as a Main Eventer, but even as "just" the IC champion, he added prestige to the belt, and he gave it almost a Main Event feel. Even when his music hit, it felt like an event.

 

[Why Always Me]

IMO, the best IC champ is definitely Chris Jericho. He has held it the most (which doesn't instantally make him the best champ), but he has had good feuds with the likes of Christian, RVD, Chyna & Chris Benoit (one of my favourite feuds).

I also think The Rock was a damn good IC champ, feuding with Shamrock, Faarooq and most notiably Triple H (which also helped elevate the European title a little, as Triple H was the European champion for a part of the feud).

Honourable mentions to Mr Perfect, Bret Hart, Owen Hart and HBK.

Undecided. I do think it's one of the most overrated titles of all time though. If I had to pick a quick one off the top of my head I'd go with the Honky Tonk Man. I haven't really thought about it, but he's the first to spring to mind. I'm taking into account that his reign is the longest. I'm taking into account how hated he was, and how he lost it.

Everyone wanted to see him lose the title, he was annoying, poor in the ring. If you can you could say he didn't deserve the title. It was really supposed to be a long reign for Ricky Steamboat, and I believe that Savage was supposed to win it off him. He said no and as a result he got the WWE Championship instead. Or something like that.

Overall his reign was like JBL's only better executed. And the pop when The warrior won it was one of the best I've ever heard.

Why do you think it's over-rated?

 

[gully side adidja]

the bad guy razor ramon he made the intercontinental title feel like it was the 2nd best belt in the company,unlike today where it is probably regarded as the 4th or 5th,he had excellent matches holding it(jarett,hbk,owen hart)and became the first 3 time champion of that title,plus it looked better on him than everyone else,DON'T MESS WITH THE BAD GUY CHICO.

 

[Theo Mays]

When I saw this thread Mr. Perfect was the first guy that jumped to mind. He, in my opinion, is the greatest IC champion to ever grace the square circle. The guy could wrestle circles around you and his promos were fantastic. His two title reigns achieved 406 total days (t-8th all time). Perfect could have been a main eventer and could have easily been world champ, but that is for another day. Perfect made the IC title so prestigious and he just looked the part and made the belt seem just as important as the WWE title. The first thing I think of when I think of Mr. Perfect is the IC title and the first thing I think of when I think of the IC title is Mr. Perfect. They go hand in hand. And that is why he gets my vote.

 

[TechWrestFan79]

The top two intercontinental champions in order would be Mr. Perfect with Rick Rude as a close second.

Both of these Minnesotans brought prestige to the title. Mr. Perfect's feuds with Kerry Von Erich, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels created the belief that the Intercontinental title was a thing to be desired and wanted.
In any other organization Curt Hennig would have been champion but because of the direction of the company, Curt simply put on great matches either as the cowardly heel or dominant technical wrestler.

Rude on the other hand made the Intercontinental title relevant because he like Perfect made the title seem like prestigious goal. After he lost the title to the Ultimate Warrior due to Roddy Piper's interference and then was referred to as former intercontinental champion...his retort of Former Nothing Little Man, made us believe he was truly upset. Rude's ability to put on good matches with a marginal wrestler like the Warrior while telling a good story puts him within points of Mr. Perfect.