IGN's Top 50 Wrestlers of All Time...

[Papa Pillman]

2. Take a look at what character Orton plays.

Okay I looked at it... It's dull, stale, and has become so based on doing the bare minimum that it's borderline lazy. From that perspective it has a lot in common with the current creative staff, no wonder Orton is pushed down our throats so hard.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Oy vey.

How is Orton pushed down our throats so hard? Let's see what else you can get wrong.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I get why you're an Orton fan, you've made about as many actual points over the course of this conversation as one of his promos.

Less is more I guess. Easier than actual providing substance.

As for your "question"... If Orton hasn't been pushed down our throats I'd love to see how many world titles he would have if he had been. Double the amount of Flair maybe?? Would that qualify??

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

You mean those two world titles he has won in the last two years?

 

[Papa Pillman]

You mean he's only averaging one world title a year over the last couple years?? I guess they've successfully buried him.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Are you a fan of The Rock or Edge?

 

[Papa Pillman]

Are you a fan of The Rock or Edge?

Neither would make my top 20 favorites or anything like that, but yes both were over with me. Edge's ring work wasn't as great as it was made out to be and overall I thought Christian was the better talent(Edge only got pushed farther because he was taller and had a little better overall "look"). I did feel Edge was shoved down our throat at times.

As for Rocky his charisma speaks for itself, but he got too far into the "coasting" mode as well, and was overpushed much of the time too. Other attitude era luminaries like Austin, Foley, and Taker were always clearly superior to The Rock in my eyes.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Rock>>>>>>>>>>>>Attitude Era Undertaker.

 

[Papa Pillman]

If we're talking American Badass Taker I agree. If we're talking Ministry of Darkness Taker I disagree.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Fucking Shawn Micheals Jesus christ

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

What puts HBK at #1 seriously? Hogan is #1 in my eyes.

 

[keehlnate]

HBK is probably the greatest performer of all time, hence he is named the Showstopper. He is not Mr. Wrestlemania for no reason because he always put on an epic match on the biggest stage of them all. But is he the greatest superstar? No. To be the G.O.A.T. you need to be a total package - Rock and Austin easily surpassed him at this category.

Now, I haven't watched wrestling long enough to rate Hogan, Warrior (he isn't even on the list), or Savage, even Flair, Bret Hart and Sting. But from what I have seen in the last 10-15 years, Triple H, Undertaker, Rock, Austin should be above Shawn Michaels. Cena and Punk are out of the question.

 

[Kris Benwa]

Edge wasn't even the number two face when he retired. Quit being silly.

Smackdown was Edge's show whenever they needed any main event guy over there it was always Edge he was dominant over there. If Edge doesn't retire the draft doesn't come as early as it did, Randy doesn't go to Smackdown cuz he wasn't needed there and he never wins the title. Idiot

 

[Kris Benwa]

I get why you're an Orton fan, you've made about as many actual points over the course of this conversation as one of his promos.

Less is more I guess. Easier than actual providing substance.

As for your "question"... If Orton hasn't been pushed down our throats I'd love to see how many world titles he would have if he had been. Double the amount of Flair maybe?? Would that qualify??

This.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Smackdown was Edge's show whenever they needed any main event guy over there it was always Edge he was dominant over there. If Edge doesn't retire the draft doesn't come as early as it did, Randy doesn't go to Smackdown cuz he wasn't needed there and he never wins the title. Idiot

Edge was dominant for about half a year in his whole time on Smackdown as a main eventer. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I get why you're an Orton fan, you've made about as many actual points over the course of this conversation as one of his promos.

Less is more I guess. Easier than actual providing substance.

As for your "question"... If Orton hasn't been pushed down our throats I'd love to see how many world titles he would have if he had been. Double the amount of Flair maybe?? Would that qualify??

I can see this point being made in 2004 or 2005, but does 2010 not ring a bell? You remember? The year the fans turned him into a babyface. When the fans begin cheering the top heel in the company, without a "pipe bomb" to spark it, there is zero "forcing" going on.

Smackdown was Edge's show whenever they needed any main event guy over there it was always Edge he was dominant over there. If Edge doesn't retire the draft doesn't come as early as it did, Randy doesn't go to Smackdown cuz he wasn't needed there and he never wins the title. Idiot

So he continues winning world titles on the number one show instead? Even better. You're right, he's too good for Smackdown. That's how normal people see it.

This.

That.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I agree Orton's better than Booker T and that he should be on the list. It goes without saying really but the bolded sentence annoys me. CM Punk is ahead of Orton. Call me an annoying fanboy or whatever you want, CM Punk's shoot drew more interest than the entirety of Orton's career. And his match with Cena at Money In The Bank was more exciting than the entirety of Orton's career. The best of Orton is his feuds with Triple H & Christian. His feud with Christian being on the "B-Show" and the one with HHH being ultimately dissatisfying. So yeah, take a good look at the crowds and you'll see that everyone is wearing a certain Punk's t-shirt. Fuck, does Orton even have merchandise anymore? I don't believe I've seen him wear any during those compelling feuds with Kane, Ziggler and Del Rio.

If Orton had been given something even half as interesting as what Punk had been handed, he'd be in the same spot. Why? The fans. The fans were absolutely insane for Orton, and he didn't sit indian style at the top of the ramp and "break the fourth wall" or whatever you call it. He wasn't pandering to the smarks. I like Punk, but this idea that he had some revolutionary impact on the WWE is absurd. He didn't. They came up with a really nice idea for Punk, it worked well and now it's over. Now he's a heel, with no hope to the be the number one guy in the company. Now he understands how Orton (probably) felt in 2010/11.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I'll never understand why HBK is always #1 on damn near every top wrestler list I see. He's a phenomenal in ring performer and storyteller but to put him ahead of Hogan, Austin or The Rock is just mind boggling. The top spots should always go to wrestlers who became bigger than wrestling.

 

[Shocky]

Shawn Michaels #1, holy mother of God. There isn't an eye roll massive enough to go in this thread.

 

[Ming]

If Orton had been given something even half as interesting as what Punk had been handed, he'd be in the same spot. Why? The fans. The fans were absolutely insane for Orton, and he didn't sit indian style at the top of the ramp and "break the fourth wall" or whatever you call it. He wasn't pandering to the smarks. I like Punk, but this idea that he had some revolutionary impact on the WWE is absurd. He didn't. They came up with a really nice idea for Punk, it worked well and now it's over. Now he's a heel, with no hope to the be the number one guy in the company. Now he understands how Orton (probably) felt in 2010/11.

I actually agree with you on the supposed "revolution" led by CM Punk. It's been blown out of proportion, the WWE is the same as it always has been in the past decade. But would Orton have pulled off what Punk did? No. Orton executes his character well, you know why? Because the Viper is a cold, emotionless, sadistic, heartless being. Orton's tried to pull off other characters before and it's not worked. CM Punk is completely the opposite. As a heel, he's a self-righteous, outspoken moaner. Who better to slag off Vince, whine about their current position in the WWE and wish death upon him? That's right, CM Punk. It's completely out of character for Orton, and CM Punk playing his character as well as he did allowed him to take part in a storyline more interesting than one Orton could ever hope to participate in. And CM Punk was a better heel than Orton before that shoot promo. Better face? No. But after the promo, Punk soared to heights Orton hasn't reached as a face.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I actually agree with you on the supposed "revolution" led by CM Punk. It's been blown out of proportion, the WWE is the same as it always has been in the past decade. But would Orton have pulled off what Punk did? No. Orton executes his character well, you know why? Because the Viper is a cold, emotionless, sadistic, heartless being. Orton's tried to pull off other characters before and it's not worked. CM Punk is completely the opposite. As a heel, he's a self-righteous, outspoken moaner. Who better to slag off Vince, whine about their current position in the WWE and wish death upon him? That's right, CM Punk. It's completely out of character for Orton, and CM Punk playing his character as well as he did allowed him to take part in a storyline more interesting than one Orton could ever hope to participate in. And CM Punk was a better heel than Orton before that shoot promo. Better face? No. But after the promo, Punk soared to heights Orton hasn't reached as a face.

Orton was a little better than Punk as a heel in 2009.

 

[Kris Benwa]

Edge was dominant for about half a year in his whole time on Smackdown as a main eventer. Don't kid yourself.

And Randy Orton was dominant on Smackdown for how long? Edge main evented Smackdowns in 07,08,10, and 11. While also main eventing Raw while your boy Randy Orton was in the mid card which is where he is now and was for most of last year and most of 2010. You're kidding yourself dude. Randy Orton was only the number 2 face from when Edge retired to when CM Punk got big which was what a few months also about as long as you say Edge was dominant on Smackdown. You have no argument kid so just quit.

 

[Kris Benwa]

Orton was a little better than Punk as a heel in 2009.

Honestly I think they were about the same 09 was a good year for Orton and Punk but for the most part Ming was right

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

And Randy Orton was dominant on Smackdown for how long? Edge main evented Smackdowns in 07,08,10, and 11. While also main eventing Raw while your boy Randy Orton was in the mid card which is where he is now and was for most of last year and most of 2010. You're kidding yourself dude. Randy Orton was only the number 2 face from when Edge retired to when CM Punk got big which was what a few months also about as long as you say Edge was dominant on Smackdown. You have no argument kid so just quit.

I remember Orton in 2010 winning the world title and feuding with Nexus and Miz in main events. I remember Orton in 2011 having great match after great match with Christian.

 

[Kris Benwa]

I remember Orton in 2010 winning the world title and feuding with Nexus and Miz in main events. I remember Orton in 2011 having great match after great match with Christian.

In 2010 i remember Edge winning the Royal Rumble and Main Eventing Wrestlemania also Orton held the title for like 3 weeks then after he lost it went on to not main eventing shit and I remember Orton having consistently great matches with Christian because Edge had to retire I also remember everybody hating Orton for taking the title away from Christian two days after he won it in the first place.