I Love America

[klunderbunker]

Yeah I'll try not to go too overboard again. When I say Republicans, I don't mean all encompassing. Mostly senators/congressmen that I flat out do not believe for a second are anything but bought and paid for insurance company workers.

 

[klunderbunker]

But, according to this administration, nothing should be. That's the point.



I could. I'd just have to keep them hidden.



In all honesty, it wasn't that big of an ordeal. The doctor proclaimed my dad unfit to work, he faxed that letter to the Social Security Administration and they approved all treatment ahead of his enrollment. Once he was enrolled, he was billed a minimal co-pay retroactively.

I think you guys are missing what I want. I do not mind the idea of national healthcare. I wish everyone could be covered. I just don't want the government running it. If the government wants to raise money to insure the uninsured, that's fine, but that money should be given to private industry because private industry can use that money more efficiently. My dad's SSI and Medicaid is run by Humana, and it is run very well and costs him minimally. It really is a solid option. I just feel that the government has shown time and again that when it over-regulates, or takes control of an industry, it does a terrible job. Look at the mortgage industry, the postal service, the train service....these industries are disasters. Would you want the government that runs these industries running your healthcare? This isn't a partisan issue. It doesn't matter who is in control of these essential, everyday services. Every administration has failed. Look at the current legislation for health care. The government won't cover mammograms for women under 50. Breast cancer doesn't have an age minimum. It doesn't ID you. It just strikes. Little pieces of the bill like this scare the shit out of me. Sure, they'll take care of preexisting conditions, but should you have to wait until you're 50 to find out you have the condition?

That's true about the mammograms, but how much of the current bill proposed has been designed to appeal to conservatives that want nothing to do with a public option? If it were up to me, I'd be all for having a government run system. My issue is that while the postal service or train system have been badly run, I'd rather have the government run it rather than private, profit based companies. Look at countries like Canada or England. They manage to stay afloat by having national single payer systems. The government runs a national system but people are allowed to have private insurance if they want it. Take my uncle for example. He's a veteran, he's on medicare, and he has a private policy. He had to have his knee fixed for about the 10th time a few months ago, and he had three options of plans to pay for it from all three plans he had. That is what I would want: more or less, everyone in the country on Medicare. If someone is happy with what their private insurance company is doing for them, they might as well have nnever even heard about Medicare because it wouldn't affect them. They can keep what they have and be just fine with it. As for where the money came from, With as mnay people are having issues with private insurance companies, the money could come from premiums and copays paid by people on the new insurance plan. Not to mention there is money elsewhere in the budget where it can be run, namely in the Middle East wars.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Yeah I'll try not to go too overboard again. When I say Republicans, I don't mean all encompassing. Mostly senators/congressmen that I flat out do not believe for a second are anything but bought and paid for insurance company workers.

The insurance companies paid ten to one for democrats in the last election.

 

[klunderbunker]

That's true, but how many democrats have stood in the way of any kind of reform which would hurt the insurance industry? I see three of them. I haven't seen a single Republican that has said they would vote for it. Lieberman, who might as well be a Republican, has given 6, count them, 6 reasons to even block a vote on this. His main ones: we can't afford it/we'll lose a ton of money on it. The CBO says it will take over 100 billion off teh deficit in ten years. Gallup polls (I believe it was them, could be wrong) say that a majority want a public option. Lieberman says the people don't want it. Odd that he's gotten over 2 million dollars in the last election cycle from insurance companies isn't it?

The thing is, while yes they got more money, the actions would point to Republicans fighting against reform for no reason other than wanting insurance companies not to be touched.

 

[FromTheSouth]

There are 270 Democrats in the house, and only 216 of them voted for the bill.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah the house disappointed me.

One note: I hate Congress, regardless of party. Everything in there is all about partisanship and getting little jabs here and there against the other party and trying to appeal for future elections rather than the people. A Republican in New Orleans voted for the reform and the RNC said "we;ll get him." The congressman's reason for voting the way he did: it was best for the poor people in his district. He represents an incredibly poor area of New Orleans. He did what was absolutely best for his people, and he's apparently in all kinds of trouble with his party. If that's not proof that all of Congress is fucked up beyond belief (regardless of party) I don't know what is.

 

[FromTheSouth]

But it isn't the best for his people. The bill is paid for by cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, free services. The national healthcare is not free healthcare. It still has to be paid for, but it is partially subsidized by tax increases for the rich.

So, the bill takes away something free and makes them pay for it, and this is somehow better for the poor?

 

[klunderbunker]

And the rich should pay more taxes. They have more money so they won't miss it as much. Why should they have gotten such big tax breaks in the previous administration? Why? How was that in the best interest of the American people? Taking away a source of income for the country that the less wealthy people have to take up the slack for? Even by bringing the rates for the rich back to what they were before the tax cuts would help at least some. Granted I've always been a fan of a flat tax but that would never pass.

 

[X]

And the rich should pay more taxes. They have more money so they won't miss it as much. Why should they have gotten such big tax breaks in the previous administration? Why? How was that in the best interest of the American people? Taking away a source of income for the country that the less wealthy people have to take up the slack for? Even by bringing the rates for the rich back to what they were before the tax cuts would help at least some. Granted I've always been a fan of a flat tax but that would never pass.

 

[FromTheSouth]

And the rich should pay more taxes. They have more money so they won't miss it as much. Why should they have gotten such big tax breaks in the previous administration? Why? How was that in the best interest of the American people? Taking away a source of income for the country that the less wealthy people have to take up the slack for? Even by bringing the rates for the rich back to what they were before the tax cuts would help at least some. Granted I've always been a fan of a flat tax but that would never pass.

It's their money. They earned it. There is plenty of opportunity in this country. If you want to raise a trillion dollars to give people further excuse to leach off the government instead of getting jobs, stop sending foreign aid.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Why make a good argument when you can make a shitty joke?

Everyone had money during Clinton's administration and Bush's until the dems took control of congress and thought money could trickle up.

LOL @ Xfears complete and total lack of understanding of economics.

 

[X]

It's their money. They earned it. There is plenty of opportunity in this country. If you want to raise a trillion dollars to give people further excuse to leach off the government instead of getting jobs, stop sending foreign aid.

Explain to me how Paris Hilton earned her money. Was it her dick-sucking skills?

 

[klunderbunker]

As many of you know, I have a bit of money. However, since I made it myself, I'm considered new money. For some reason, this means I'm nothing compared to people that inherited theirs. I went out and made my money on my own, while others got theirs because as sperm they went into the right vagina, yet they've earned their money? I have a major issue with that.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Her clothing line makes millions, her book made millions, her perfume makes millions, her name alone is worth millions. Why is it so bad that she got a head start? Instead of being jealous and petty, you should try and catch up instead of bringing her down.

 

[FromTheSouth]

As many of you know, I have a bit of money. However, since I made it myself, I'm considered new money. For some reason, this means I'm nothing compared to people that inherited theirs. I went out and made my money on my own, while others got theirs because as sperm they went into the right vagina, yet they've earned their money? I have a major issue with that.

And that issue is jealousy. Pettiness like that does not suit you.

 

[klunderbunker]

No, no that issue would be me being angry that I'm looked down upon because my great great great grandparents weren't wealthy but I am. It's apparently bad that I worked hard and got where I am today and wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. It's apparently better to do nothing other than have a last name than it is to go out and earn something. That's jealousy?

 

[FromTheSouth]

Yeah. It is. If you're biggest problem is that people look down on you for being new money, and you still bitch about it, it is petty.

 

[klunderbunker]

No, my biggest problem is making sure my mother gets treatment for skin cancer because her insurance company won't allow it due to her having a completely unrelated preexisting condition that your republican senators won't allow to be changed because it might drop stock prices two pennies. But hey, the CEOs get new planes next year.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Good, they earned those planes. Instead of demonizing profits like a jealous leftist, use the options available to you already provided by the government, and don't let foolish pride be your motivation to bash people over politics. Instead of focusing on your failure to do what is best for your mom, you are blaming others and trying to drag people down instead of striving to ascend their level.

 

[klunderbunker]

FOR DOING WHAT??? Sitting in a fucking board room in a 5000 dollar suit sipping scotch and approving or disapproving insurance policies? If you call that earning something, you have some very interesting views.

I don't want to be on their level. I'd like to think I have more humanity than that.

 

[FromTheSouth]

FOR DOING WHAT??? Sitting in a fucking board room in a 5000 dollar suit sipping scotch and approving or disapproving insurance policies? If you call that earning something, you have some very interesting views.

I don't want to be on their level. I'd like to think I have more humanity than that.

Because, right out of the womb, it was straight to the board room. I bet not a single one of them worked hard in school, grad school, and working up the chain. Give me a break. You are so much smarter than that.

 

[klunderbunker]

You mean like Bush worked so hard to get into Yale? Or so hard to get out of Yale? It had nothing at all to do with what his dad did for a living or had done in war at all? Tell me you don't believe that, please.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Some people do get an extra advantage. Others have to work harder. Bill Clinton grew up dirt poor and worked hard to gain innumerable wealth. Obama grew up poor and he has unconscionable power. Condi Rice grew up poor, Colin Powell was the only black child in a poor Jewish neighborhood, Michael Dell came from a middle class family, so did Bill Gates. Warren Buffet was a poor farmer.

So the fuck what if some people have it easy. I hope to be successful enough to where my kids have it easy. I would hope you want the same thing. I have yet to hear one good argument on why it is so bad to be rich or to inherit large sums of money.

 

[FromTheSouth]

We're having this debate on two different threads, and the thread at the top is about fast food.

 

[klunderbunker]

It isn't bad to inherit money. It's bad for people that did to look down on people with money that worked hard to earn it.