How Is Mickie James Not a Hall of Famer? Who is?

[Meth Head]

As for lasting legacy; just because they were not proficient in the ring... erm, Sunny? Sunny and Sable were both with the WWF for less time than Stacy and Torrie... and what was that memorable about Sable's runs? That she was that hated in her first run that Sean Waltman defecated in her bag as a goodbye present or her 'Playboy' run with (nonHoF worthy) Wilson in her second run?

You could make a case for Sunny not being any more proficient in the ring than Stacy or Torrie was, but her legacy lied not in her time as a wrestler, but in her role as a manager. Apart from this, the company acknowledged her as the first real Diva. She was the "First" - that distinction alone set her apart from all that followed.

Sable was a former Women's Champion, the first wrestling personality to cover Playboy, and at one point one of the most over people in the company regardless of gender. How you could question what was memorable about her run and yet defend two former Nitro dancers who spent their time in the WWE doing bikini matches and shooting t-shirts into the crowd makes me wonder what the hell it was you think you were watching.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

No, buddy. Nu-uh. I appreciate all those mud matches, pillow fights and bra & panties matches they used to have (ah, the memories) as much as the next dude but there ain't no way those two are getting in the Hall.

A small minority may argue that the Hall "isn't real" anyway, or that it has lost its credibility but that's not how most folks perceive it. It's still the highest honor pro wrestling can bestow.

Keibler and Wilson left no lasting legacy in the 'E to be in consideration for that kind of honor. Unless you count the Diva Search.

Not everyone that's inducted into the HOF has to be a credible, good wrestler. Announcers have been inducted, managers have been inducted, celebrities have been inducted. There's other roles in the WWE that are honored with an induction besides an in-ring performer. Much like Sable and Sunny were in the mid-to late 90's, Torrie Wilson and Stacey Keibler were some of the most over female personalities in the WWE during the early to mid 2000's. They weren't great wrestlers, but that's not what they were really there for. There were there more to serve as valets and as personalities. I'm not saying they're HOF shoe-ins by any means. But they kind of fall in the same lineage as non-female wrestlers like Sunny and Missy Hyatt and many of the other female valets in the 1980's. So they had a role and played their roles well, and I'm sure they're in the conversation each year for which female to induct. Stacey Keibler in particular. I agree that they're not the first to come to mind on females that should be inducted, but I don't think it's absolutely ludicrous to say they deserve consideration, especially with what WWE goes for for their HOF ceremonies. aka: star power.

 

[The Man]

I certainly that Mickie deserves to got into the HOF, but it's too soon. I mean, the woman is only 34 years old.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

You could make a case for Sunny not being any more proficient in the ring than Stacy or Torrie was, but her legacy lied not in her time as a wrestler, but in her role as a manager. Apart from this, the company acknowledged her as the first real Diva. She was the "First" - that distinction alone set her apart from all that followed.

Sable was a former Women's Champion, the first wrestling personality to cover Playboy, and at one point one of the most over people in the company regardless of gender. How you could question what was memorable about her run and yet defend two former Nitro dancers who spent their time in the WWE doing bikini matches and shooting t-shirts into the crowd makes me wonder what the hell it was you think you were watching.

You're questioning what I was watching and yet you don't know that neither Torrie or Stacy had anything to do with being Diva search contestants or that Torrie was never a Nitro girl?

Sable was the first Diva to appear in Playboy? Wow - how niche! Asides from the fact that Torrie did too; she was also runner up in the 2009 series of "I'm a celebrity... get me out of here!" Stacy has also brought levels of mainstream exposure to the WWe that Sable could only dream off as a finalist on "Dancing with the Stars" (not to mention her relationship with George Clooney). In today's WWe, Playboy holds much less sway than mainstream recognition.

And while you may have heaped scorn on the sexualized bouts they may have popularized - they DID popularize them and the key male 18-35 demographic that the WWF was targeting loved it... ESPECIALLY when Torrie and / or Stacy were involved.

If you found Sable unmissable - more power to you! Feuds with 'Marvelous' Marc Mero, Jacqueline, Luna, Tori and Debra... yeah, great stuff! I'd personally prefer to remember her feud with Torrie.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Sable was getting some of the loudest pops in 1998 - something that Torrie or Stacy never came close to. It was reminiscent of Lita in 2000. Both of them never have or never will have the impact Sable had during her time in the WWE.

 

[Meth Head]

You're questioning what I was watching and yet you don't know that neither Torrie or Stacy had anything to do with being Diva search contestants or that Torrie was never a Nitro girl?

I never said they were Diva Search contestants, I said the Search was created because of them. Keibler and Wilson were models turned into wrestlers; so were the Diva Search girls. Put two and two together. The Diva Search was never the Search for the Next Molly Holly, Female In-Ring Technician for the Gods; it was the Search for the Next Stacy Keibler, Hot Model With Nice Legs and you know it.

Sable was the first Diva to appear in Playboy? Wow - how niche! Asides from the fact that Torrie did too; she was also runner up in the 2009 series of "I'm a celebrity... get me out of here!" Stacy has also brought levels of mainstream exposure to the WWe that Sable could only dream off as a finalist on "Dancing with the Stars" (not to mention her relationship with George Clooney). In today's WWe, Playboy holds much less sway than mainstream recognition.

Yes, because when Keibler and Wilson get inducted into the Hall of Fame, surely they will be credited for such tremendous accomplishments as banging George Clooney and appearing on "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here."

Look, man, I don't dislike Keibler and Wilson. They were hot and nice to look at and the combined number of their bikini contests probably generated millions of dollars of revenue for Kleenex over the years. I can appreciate that. But the fact of the matter is that they were simply overshadowed by other female performers of their time. They were with the WWE, as you would recall, during the same era as Trish, Lita, Victoria, etc. and in that period their importance in the division was all but secondary to these women. They were never regular contenders for the Women's Title. They were marketable, and that was it.

Your opinion on Sable, I probably can't change that but I respect it. I will say this, though: the next time Raw does a "Reunion" special and Vinnie had to choose which pair of Divas to bring back between Wilson/Keibler and Sunny/Sable... sadly for you, my friend, he will choose the latter.

Sable was getting some of the loudest pops in 1998 - something that Torrie or Stacy never came close to. It was reminiscent of Lita in 2000. Both of them never have or never will have the impact Sable had during her time in the WWE.

There you go.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Sable was getting some of the loudest pops in 1998 - something that Torrie or Stacy never came close to. It was reminiscent of Lita in 2000. Both of them never have or never will have the impact Sable had during her time in the WWE.

Of course she was, she was the trailblazer of the ECWlite WWF women because she had no real competition in the looks department. Despite this Vince still had no qualms about letting her go once he realized that other women (who were less trouble) could fill the same risque slot. A tactic he repeated ad nauseum and to less and less risque levels so that by the time Wilson and Kiebler joined, their matches (the popularity of which you are greatly knocking down) still received pops but couldn't compare with painted on hands against Jacqueline in a bikini contest. She may have been the guinea pig for this type of diva in the WWF but if you want to talk about who made the 'impact', you should be looking to the likes of the ECW girls Vince was looking to emulate.

Reaching the finals of "Dancing With The Stars" or "I'm a Celebrity... Get me out of here!" were the general public were voting for them solely on their legacy as WWe Diva's (both shows are, after all, mainly popularity contests) would indicate they had more than a reasonable impact on the sport.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I never said they were Diva Search contestants, I said the Search was created because of them. Keibler and Wilson were models turned into wrestlers; so were the Diva Search girls. Put two and two together. The Diva Search was never the Search for the Next Molly Holly, Female In-Ring Technician for the Gods; it was the Search for the Next Stacy Keibler, Hot Model With Nice Legs and you know it.

Actually, the likes of Sable, the Kat and Trish had already started that trend.

Yes, because when Keibler and Wilson get inducted into the Hall of Fame, surely they will be credited for such tremendous accomplishments as banging George Clooney and appearing on "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here."

Such things do influence though and they did have careers in the WWF/e as both valets and (admittedly sexist gimmick matches) wrestlers. Plus, I never recall any issues with their attitudes towards their jobs.

Look, man, I don't dislike Keibler and Wilson. They were hot and nice to look at and the combined number of their bikini contests probably generated millions of dollars of revenue for Kleenex over the years. I can appreciate that. But the fact of the matter is that they were simply overshadowed by other female performers of their time. They were with the WWE, as you would recall, during the same era as Trish, Lita, Victoria, etc. and in that period their importance in the division was all but secondary to these women. They were never regular contenders for the Women's Title. They were marketable, and that was it.

No dispute, that wasn't their role - they were there to look good beside a Dudley Boys and to occasionally titillate the core target audience and they never failed on that.

Your opinion on Sable, I probably can't change that but I respect it. I will say this, though: the next time Raw does a "Reunion" special and Vinnie had to choose which pair of Divas to bring back between Wilson/Keibler and Sunny/Sable... sadly for you, my friend, he will choose the latter.

Very hypothetical - given Sable hasn't appeared since 2004 and Kiebler really does appear to have left the business behind. Sunny and Torrie would be the most likely combo to appear.

I couldn't actually care less if none of the three ever make the HoF, but I do believe that T&S have every bit the claim to be in as Sable because for every claim that Sable was the first Attitude babe, I'd counter that this was more a timing than ability thing. Whereas I feel that T&S are undervalued because they were not great in the ring, yet gained a pretty good following from dealing the lesser cards they were dealt. Like I stated to LJL, you don't reach the finals of reality TV shows without a following.

 

[LBGetBack]

The diva who is not currently in that truly deserves it more than anyone else is Michelle McCool. She was outstanding in the ring and carried the division on her back for several years. Mickie was cool and did a good job, but I don't think she ever reached the heights that McCool did in 2009-10. Truthfully, I'd put Melina in before Mickie James too.

Sable was huge for about a year. Chyna too. I do think they both will get in as long as they are on good terms with Vince.

Stacy is the hottest diva ever, but she really didn't do much......other than be hot. Same with Torrie. They really don't deserve it like the above 5 do.