It really isn't my whole argument. Shelton has had standard matches against the likes of RVD, HBK, Undertaker, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Christian, Matt Hardy, Los Guerreros, Rey Mysterio, and Billy Kidman that rival the best singles matches. Those matches were fine professional wrestling matches peppered with athleticism which require a greater degree of skill than most of Jeff Hardy's standard spots. That's superior performance, which is the heart of my argument.
Well at least I finally got you to put up a somewhat half assed argument, but it still doesn't cut it. Hardy's put on just as many matches against even better, more respected opponents, and actually managed to come out on top. You know, with this thing called a Victory.
Shelton is an athletic wrestler, with pretty good in ring skills; but that's it, it ends there. Too bad pro wrestling has NEVER been about the actually athletic ability and it's only partially about the wrestling.
It's the old if this was just about the wrestling....Dean Malenko argument.
When his accomplishments as a real athlete are the basis for his entire mega-push to the top, I can't agree with that.
Point being, if you take away angles athletic ability he can still get over on the Mic. You take away Shelton's athletic ability and he's literally as useful as a beach towel, a soaking wet beach towel that's been left out in the rain.
Just wanted to quote this by itself.
It's like me saying "imagine if we took away Jeff Hardy's ability to jump off of tall stuff." It's meaningless hypothetical. Th reality? Shelton Benjamin is a better, more versatile performer than Jeff Hardy. That's not a hypothetical. That's fact.
Again, point being, your argument is 1 dimensional, we take away the one dimension of your argument, and you're left with nothing.
This whole tournament is Hypothetical, is it not?
But Shelton has entertained. He's had many matches that got the crowd going wild. To imply that he hasn't is ass-hatted. And he was so well-regarded for those matches that the WWE didn't completely give up on him until after seven years.
So they kept him around for 7 years based off nothing but athletic ability, and then the realization was finally made: Shelton Benjamin doesn't have what it takes to make it to the top.
You want to talk about crowd reaction, how many people where crying in the audience when Shelton retired, and I'm not talking about tears of Joy.
Foley entertained well in more companies than Jeff. It's not a proper argument.
It is though. It shows that being entertaining is more important that being able to jump high and balance on the top rope, and such.
Not responding. It still isn't all about him being an athlete. You can keep repeating it all you want, but it's about a better performance. Athletics are just a part of that. Get with the program.
Right, Athletics are part of that, but the bigger picture here is ENTERTAINMENT. Being able to entertain a crowd is what get's you to the top, not "athletic ability". Athletic Ability is what gets you a nice meaty contract in any REAL sport, not the case with Pro Wrestling.
When did I say someone needs to be a great athlete to entertain? I simply said that Jeff Hardy's act doesn't encompass the same degree of difficulty as Shelton's and that Shelton's act is more generalizable to a good performance elsewhere. That's the argument. It doesn't all rest of athletic ability.
By "Elsewhere" you mean, not at the highest level. Shelton can take his act to every highschool gym in the country and Hardy is still going to be putting more fans in the seats and money in the pockets of the organization he works for.
I'd say Hardy is the one with the better act, as he has the act people actually want to see, the act that people will pay to see. That's why Hardy is a current World Heavyweight Champion, and why Shelton will be stopping by your local high school gym for the early bird 5 o'clock show, better get there early before those 25 chairs fill up.
Vince McMahon makes stars. TNA, for the most part, leeches off the corpses of former stars. That's almost universally accepted fact, sir. Ask around.
Speaking of stars created by Vince, have you met Jeff Hardy?
You've been in some mighty big outhouses.
I grew up in Oklahoma.
They're different shows with different core audiences. I also didn't do anything not to put Lawler over. I was simply remarking how out of touch the WWE was with that crowd. Heck, maybe the reactions on Sunday were a sign that the core audience of the WWE is getting smarkier and that one day the Shelton marks will inherit the mainstream. Then we'll regard Shelton as being a guy who was ahead of his time. Either way, nothing I'm saying reflects poorly on Shelton and there's nothing two-faced about any of it. A smark crowd showed up to shit on a product that clearly isn't their cup of tea. It ruins the experience. But them showing up for an indy show isn't a bad thing when they're clearly the people the show is marketed towards.
Your wrong, though.
You, as a member of the IWC labeled them as a Smark Crowd. They where anything but.
That was a crowd who was into the WWE product, that was a crowd that cared. I live right outside the ghetto that is Oakland, I know for a fact these people cant afford to show up just so they can boo. Such a fucking uneducated joke that it really makes me chuckle.
All the sudden, WWE gets one of the hottest crowds it's had in a while, and it has to be labeled a smark crowd, and why? because they cheered louder than the rest, because they where into the programming, because they actually cared about the product and the show.
Fucking Christ, just put the blindfold on and stand in line with the rest of the IWC sheep.
Belts are handed out like candy in Jeff's era. It means nothing.
The same Era Shelton participated in, I guess child molesters didn't even want to give Shelton candy.
Your point means nothing, because they wrestled in the same era, it only proves the Hardy was better and more prominent that Shelton ever was.
No, you're right. The whims of Vince McMahon have nothing to do with which castoffs get the TNA World Heavyweight Championship. That's why AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, and all sorts of other homegrown talent are regarded as credible threats to Hardy.
Thank you for pointing out that, Joe and Styles, who have also accomplished loads more than Benjamin, can't even hold a stick to Hardy. Are you trying to lower people opinion of Shelton here?
Not yet, but I've literally got the bowl packed, and will be puffing away after I submit this post. Feel free to join me in the chiefing session, the doors always open.
To rattlesnake: Can you prove that pre-WWE could outperform Benjamin? I didn't think so.
Let's compare minor league careers before they made it to the top. HAHA, but no. Nice try on trying to trick him into taking the battle where it doesn't belong.
What they did prior to their time in the WWE is irrelevant, they where both in the largest wrestling company in the world during the same period of time, what they did prior is like arguing Michael Jordan as the best athlete because he won a 7th grade cyo tournament, fucking pathetic Coco.