Goldberg is overrated

[Achilles07]

Goldberg was actually fairly good. He was built to be unstoppable, and he lived up to it. I liked how he would switch up his move change with leg locks and other submissions other than just using slam maneuvers. No...Goldberg was not overrated. He was good, not perfect or great, but good and the fans loved him.

Just like WM 20.They hyped Lesnar vs. Goldberg up real big and it couldn't live up to the hype because Bill could not wrestle well enough.

That's not the reason. They put on a terrible match because everyone in the building knew that was their last night with the company, so they booed the hell out of both guys. That being said, they hardly tried to entertain them. It was not because "Bill could not wrestle well enough".

 

[MattMoses]

Anyone who believes Goldberg was anything great is out of their mind.

You've yet to prove why he wasn't anything great.

The guy wouldn't know what skill was, if he took a course in college.

He had the skill to make people care about him, chant his name to the rafters and buy his merchandise. Isn't getting people to care about you a necessity to make it in this business?

They claim he was one of the quickest learners in the Power Plant. Then magically enough, the Power Plant shut down.

Not only are you wrong, but you have no point here. The Power Plant stopped holding tryouts in December 1999, well over two years Goldberg had graduated.

The guy never did anything other than a couple press slams, body slams, and his finisher was a spear then a suplex.

Again, what's your point? All Steve Austin did was punches, kicks, a lou thesz, suplex and a stunner, yet he's arguably the biggest superstar of all time.

Do you think it would have made sense for Goldberg's character to wrestle a technical or high flying style? No, it wouldn't. He was a 295lbs monster and it made sense for him to hit his opponents with powerful slams.

Lets not kid ourselves here. The Jackhammer? So a suplex into a pin is suddenly dominating?

So are you telling me that a 295lbs man who's built like a brick wall charging at you like a raging bull with a spear, then hoisting you up in the air and slamming you on your back with him landing on you isn't going to be effective?

But if I recall, Billy Gunn also did the Jackhammer

Goldberg set up the Jackhammer with a furious spear. The intensity behind it was unmatched and believable.

 

[ROHDude]

No one has ever said Goldberg was great or ever put his name in a list of best wrestlers, so I don't even know why someone would make a thread claiming he is overrated, but you can't say Goldberg sucked or was bad.

He did what he was suppose to do and he did it good. His gimmick was to kick your head in (no pun intended, Bret) and people bought it. Goldberg showed skill at times and never looked terrible in the ring, besides the Mania match, so to say he sucks you're wrong. Goldberg played to his strengths and he played em well.

Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill
Lets not kid ourselves here. The Jackhammer? So a suplex into a pin is suddenly dominating? Of course it is, when its being done by a guy who looks jacked to the moon. But if I recall, Billy Gunn also did the Jackhammer.. and it didn't even get him a two count, so how much talent does it take to perform the move?.

After Goldberg kicks your ass for a few minutes then knocks you out of your boots with a spear more devastating than anything Edge could do, a Jackhammer will keep you down for a 3 count.

And the Billy Gunn arguement doesn't work because wrestlers are constantly stealing moves from other wrestlers. Stunners, leg drops, elbows, DDTs, chokeslams, superkicks, etc. are all finishers for some guys, but random moves for others.

 

[midgensa]

Eh ... I don't know. I liked Goldberg and thought he was highly entertaining. Sure, not a great wrestler. Sure, not even that great on the mic. But somehow entertaining none-the-less. He took the "SQUASH" and made it an art form. When they used to talk about if a match would be longer than his intro it was great. Speaking of ... there is really no intro like his. That music hits and everyone gets into it.
I don't think he is really thought of that highly, so I don't know about being "overrated." He definitely left a lot to be desired, but all in all, did his job fairly well.

 

[shayneomac]

Goldberg was booked as ridiculously powerful because he was. I would go as far to say that he was pound for pound the strongest superstar in Wrestling history. Only Mark Henry can claim to be stronger. He was also more agile than people thought as he demonstarted when he did a back flip.
If you want to see how strong he was, take a look at when he gorilla pressed Scott Steiner like Steiner was made on feathers and when he Jackhammered the Big Show.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Matt Moses totally gets a high five from me.

The fact is this...I WANT to see Goldberg. If he came back and wrestled for TNA, you better believe that ratings would go drastically up for Impact, and he would instantly be their top draw...even over Angle.

Goldberg...the name itself just resonates a feeling of electricity. The music...when it hits you just KNOW that someone is going to get freaking dominated. That's the kind of energy that Goldberg commanded. If we are going with the Slyfox ratings/merchandise sales argument, then you can't say that Goldberg was overrated. He put butts in the seats at a time when WCW began its decline...perhaps he even kept them going for longer than they should have been flirting with the top.

Bottom line: Goldberg's streak was going on when I really began to watch wrestling. I remember seeing his match v. Page @ Halloween Havoc '98 on Nitro the next day because of a botched feed during the PPV...it was awesome. I really felt like Page had a chance to win...but Goldberg somehow survived. I was really entertained, and I couldn't get enough of it. Goldberg got me into WCW...and I watched it well after it was stale just to see him.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

You've yet to prove why he wasn't anything great.

Why should I have to prove why he wasn't great, when noone can prove to me why he was?

Because be defeated Hulk Hogan? News flash genius, so has Billy Kidman. Because he became a World Heavyweight Champion? Oh noes, so has David Arquette. Because he had an undefeated streak? Tatanka's was way better, and Tatanka's was against known wrestlers.. not the same no-names and jobbers week in and week out.

Goldberg is overrated and hyped to the moon because of nothing more than blowing pyro smoke, and having a tribal tattoo.

He had the skill to make people care about him, chant his name to the rafters and buy his merchandise. Isn't getting people to care about you a necessity to make it in this business?

You do fully realize most of that was piped in, right? I can 100% prove that is a fact, at least regarding the shows that came to Iowa and Illinois. The speakers started the Goldberg chants on a tape.. people in the crowd started going with it.

As far as people buying his merchandise, why wouldn't they? Who wouldn't want a Tribal tattoo t-shirt?

Neither of those things mean he made millions of wrestling fans give a shit about him though. W.C.W. MADE you care about him, because they wouldn't let you forget him. You didn't care about him of your own free will, you had no choice.

Not only are you wrong, but you have no point here. The Power Plant stopped holding tryouts in December 1999, well over two years Goldberg had graduated.

It was a mocking opinion, of course it wasn't Fact. But the fact is, Goldberg was apparently top of his class. If thats the case, why did he suck so much inside the ring? Why didn't he do anything more than one or two moves, that every local wrestler in a small town federation learn?

Again, what's your point? All Steve Austin did was punches, kicks, a lou thesz, suplex and a stunner, yet he's arguably the biggest superstar of all time.

Steve Austin>Goldberg every day of the week, twice on Sunday.

Austin was a world class famous Wrestler because of his mic skills, not because of his wrestling abilities. Goldberg didn't have mic skills, because he was too stupid to talk. He yelled, and blah'd a lot. He banged his head against lockers, and busted himself open. He loved standing in pyro.

Austin was never a world class wrestler, but if you really wanna match wrestling skills.. then lets look at Austin's W.C.W. career at which point the man could wrestle circles around Goldberg anytime, anyday.

Do you think it would have made sense for Goldberg's character to wrestle a technical or high flying style? No, it wouldn't. He was a 295lbs monster and it made sense for him to hit his opponents with powerful slams.

Explain why Mike Awesome at roughly the same size and height did high-flying moves? Explain why Bam Bam Bigelow, Vader and others who're larger than Goldberg could out wrestle him, and act like cruiserweights? Did that make sense? Of course not.. but it was entertaining.

And last time I checked thats what wrestling was about. Goldberg entertained people for the first couple of monthes of coming out, killing his opponent and leaving. But when he started getting into wrestling actual opponents and not just fed jobbers.. the squash shit was old.

And that whole "He never lost fairly, hes only lost because of fluke issues." That was the biggest crock of shit ever. Goldberg somehow manipulated W.C.W. into allowing shit like that to happen, and it ruined the business. Undefeated wrestlers aren't good. They hurt companies and hurt every opponent they wrestle against.

So are you telling me that a 295lbs man who's built like a brick wall charging at you like a raging bull with a spear, then hoisting you up in the air and slamming you on your back with him landing on you isn't going to be effective?

I never said it wasn't effective. I said anyone can do it, and it was boring to watch. Goldberg's BEST spear was when he rammed head first into a steal plate that Bret Hart had hidden under a hockey jersey. His second best spear was drilling a ref. in W.W.E.

But a spear and a suplex aren't impressive.

Goldberg set up the Jackhammer with a furious spear. The intensity behind it was unmatched and believable.

Are you kidding me? Rhino's spear in the original E.C.W. was just as deadly as Goldberg's. And unlike Goldberg, Rhino's spear was all he needed to win most every one of his matches.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

After Goldberg kicks your ass for a few minutes then knocks you out of your boots with a spear more devastating than anything Edge could do, a Jackhammer will keep you down for a 3 count.

If Edge were as jacked as Goldberg, I'm sure his spear would be just as dominating, if not a whole lot better. The fact is, just because Goldberg can charge head-on into someone's chest, doesn't make him anything great.

Didn't Traci Brooks use a spear a couple times against Robert Roode and Ms. Banks? Does that make her dominating? No. Its a fricken spear, and a suplex. Get over it.

Oh, and why did Goldberg "kick your ass" for a few minutes? Perhaps its because for the largest part of his "streak" it was against no-names, jobbers, and cruiserweights.

When he fought guys like Kevin Nash, D.D.P., Sting, Hogan and others.. Goldberg got his ass handed to him, and ended up winning because of storyline and favortism.. not because he "handed them their ass for a few minutes."

And the Billy Gunn arguement doesn't work because wrestlers are constantly stealing moves from other wrestlers. Stunners, leg drops, elbows, DDTs, chokeslams, superkicks, etc. are all finishers for some guys, but random moves for others.

Why doesn't it work? You're trying to tell me how dominating a suplex is. So why can't I use others who've used the same move, as examples? Maybe its because it shows how much the move isn't as effective, when wrestlers aren't told to sell it as "painful." BECAUSE ITS A FUCKING SUPLEX!!

Wrestlers sold the shit outta the People's Elbow, are you gonna tell me that move was dominating too?

Bottom line: Goldberg's streak was going on when I really began to watch wrestling. I remember seeing his match v. Page @ Halloween Havoc '98 on Nitro the next day because of a botched feed during the PPV...it was awesome. I really felt like Page had a chance to win...but Goldberg somehow survived. I was really entertained, and I couldn't get enough of it. Goldberg got me into WCW...and I watched it well after it was stale just to see him.

That was the only Goldberg match I ever truly liked. But it had nothing to do with Goldberg being anything great, it had everything to do with the fact that Diamond Dallas Page was shown as a strong opponent.

 

[MattMoses]

Because be defeated Hulk Hogan?

He defeated Hulk Hugan when he was still hot. It was a rare occurance when somebody beat Hogan during 97-98. But no, that doesn't make Goldberg great.

News flash genius, so has Billy Kidman.

Do you really think Billy Kidman would have beat Hogan in '98 like Goldberg did? Didn't think so. And nobody mentioned Billy Kidman, so what's the point of bringing him up?

You do fully realize most of that was piped in, right? I can 100% prove that is a fact, at least regarding the shows that came to Iowa and Illinois. The speakers started the Goldberg chants on a tape.. people in the crowd started going with it.

Prove it then.

You know, there probably was Goldberg chants on tape. But the majority of the audience were still on their feet, waving their arms and chanting for him. At least that's what I can remember from the four or so shows I saw him at.

As far as people buying his merchandise, why wouldn't they? Who wouldn't want a Tribal tattoo t-shirt?

It didn't matter about the design. People bought them shirts to show their support for Bill Goldberg because they cared about him.

Neither of those things mean he made millions of wrestling fans give a shit about him though. W.C.W. MADE you care about him, because they wouldn't let you forget him. You didn't care about him of your own free will, you had no choice.

Isn't that what wrestling companies are meant to do with their top superstars?

It was a mocking opinion, of course it wasn't Fact. But the fact is, Goldberg was apparently top of his class. If thats the case, why did he suck so much inside the ring? Why didn't he do anything more than one or two moves, that every local wrestler in a small town federation learn?

What does the amount of moves have to do with the quality of a match?

Remember, this is professional wrestling. Goldberg wasn't paid to go out there and amateur wrestle for an hour with leg locks and figure fours. He was paid to go out to the ring, dominate his opponent and entertain the fans. Which he did.

Austin was a world class famous Wrestler because of his mic skills, not because of his wrestling abilities. Goldberg didn't have mic skills, because he was too stupid to talk. He yelled, and blah'd a lot. He banged his head against lockers, and busted himself open. He loved standing in pyro.

That's not what we're discussing. You used the lame old argument of number of moves, and I simply compared Goldberg's moveset to Steve Austins, both of which in numbers weren't very large yet both wrestlers gained huge success.

Austin was never a world class wrestler, but if you really wanna match wrestling skills.. then lets look at Austin's W.C.W. career at which point the man could wrestle circles around Goldberg anytime, anyday.

I'm comparing Austin's WWF career to Goldberg's WCW career. When Austin was at the heigh of his fame, his moveset was limited. Your amount of moves argument is rubbish.

Explain why Mike Awesome at roughly the same size and height did high-flying moves? Explain why Bam Bam Bigelow, Vader and others who're larger than Goldberg could out wrestle him, and act like cruiserweights? Did that make sense? Of course not.. but it was entertaining.

I don't know. Explain to me why neither of those men achieved the success Goldberg did.

And last time I checked thats what wrestling was about. Goldberg entertained people for the first couple of monthes of coming out, killing his opponent and leaving. But when he started getting into wrestling actual opponents and not just fed jobbers.. the squash shit was old.

His first ten months in the company he was fed jobbers. It was to get him used to the audience and build him up as a legit threat. After he'd made it to the main event in 1998, he wasn't wrestling jobbers anymore.

I never said it wasn't effective. I said anyone can do it, and it was boring to watch.

So why did the audience go nuts for it?

 

[therockyfan316]

goldberg was not overrated, i think this is just revisionist crap that is being mentioned he's retired and ppl forgot about the good ol' wcw days. it takes real wrestling skill to do simple moves and still come off looking like a monster, match after match. its pretty hard, and other big men have failed at it. yet goldberg somehow managed to do it, and if he came back you can be sure the fans would crazy yet again. would u say he is as boring like cena or batista. i doubt it, and thats not by accident, he knew how to carry himself and to me that shows at least some skill. and this is from someone who isnt even particularly a fan of his, just thought i should mention.

 

[agentsmith22]

before i say anything, i'd like to go on record and state that i am in no way a goldberg fan, but i will make some points that are fair for an average indy wrestling fan such as myself.

the jackhammer is a suplex into a powerslam which makes a big difference guys. and yes it was impressive to watch the spear in 98 when nobody was really doing it. and it was impressive because he was a former football player so that was part of it too. tony shiavone wouldn't let anyone forget about that. goldberg's streak against "jobbers" had to be done to build up the drama of him losing, which is why it seemed so important everytime he went up against a big name. there's not favoritsm in that, its called smart booking. go with what's hot, and at the time goldberg was the hottest thing in wrestling. I was extremely impressed when he got big paul wight up for the jackhammer. overall, i'd say goldberg was a very decent wrestler, and anyone who's saying he was boring (and cena and batista for that matter, look at how the crowds react everytime they come out, negative or positive a reaction is always good) is either someone who didnt watch in 98 and is looking back at dvds or is a smark who has nothing better to talk about. for my money though i'd take brock lesnar over g-berg any day of the week.

ROH in the hammerstein August 2nd baby! you'll see me in the 2nd row

 

[bonecrushernumber32]

Say what u want about Goldberg, he came into wrestling at the right time.

No, he wasn't the best wrestler in the world.

But the excitement that he brought to the ring couldn't b matched.

No, he didn't have that many moves.

But what more did he need?

Now a days squash matches are complete over kill.

They damn near kill the jobber for 5 minutes for nothing!

I mean when u see this big menacing guy come out against SHANNON MOORE!

You pretty much lose interest in the match, then when he comes out and beats the guy to a pulp, it's boring.

Goldberg came out to the ring might do two or three moves, then he kills em with the spear, then the jackhammer.

That was all he needed.

As i said look at the squash matches today, they go on and on and on and on.

End the DAMN match already!!!

We already know who is going to win!! Stop torturing us with bad wrestling!

I remember standing up in my living room yelling Goldberg everytime he came out.

I don't care if they were blasting the chants throught the speaker.

I was 12 years old in the living room screaming my head off cause i knew i was abotu to b entertained!

You knew from the moment that pyro went off this guy was about his buiness.

Kick ass, take names and go home.

And it was believable!

And before i sign off I wanna say this...

I don't give a damn who does the spear..Billy Gunn, Batista, Babby Lashley or ANYONE!!

Noone did it with the sheer intensity of Goldberg. NOONE!

When Billy Gunn does it , its just a suplex slam.

Goldberg was literally trying to JACKHAMMER his opponents through the ring! Go onto youtube and watch his matches, when he jackhammered his opponents the entire ring shook!

SUPLEX MY ASS!!

I know i said it was my last thing way back when. But to end this i just want to say that i am a wrestling fan. I want to be ENTERTAINED I know this isn't real. I wrestled in high school, i know real wrestling. I've been in real wrestling matches.

I know this stuff isn't real, i watch it for the excitement, i wanna b suprised which doesn't happen too often.

Wrestling has been dead for a very long time, because that excitement element is no more, its a bunch of dumbass promos that last too damn long.

Tuesday night, who didn't know Dreamer was going to hit Mark Henry with that frying pan?!

Back to the issue, even though we knew what was going to happen in Goldbergs matches, it was the way it was pulled off.

OVER RATED?!

JBL IS OVERRATED!

GOLDBERG ENTERTAINED ME AND THAT IS ALL I WANT IN A WRESTLING MATCH HOW BOUT YOU?!



:headbanger

 

[agentsmith22]

p.s. he did more than spear and jackhammer and press lifts. he had his rolling leg lock, his twisting neck breaker, his judo type throws, the one arm slam thing after catching an opponents leg, etc. a wrestler should only have about 6 or 7 signature moves, anymore than that and he's hogging from other talent. they should then use psychology to use them in a match and get them over. a big guy like goldberg shouldnt be flying from the top, simply because if he does it, then its not going to look impressive when rey misterio jr does it. simple booking, big guys shouldnt fly except on rare occasions. bam bams headbutt was cool, but he didnt fly too much. mike awesome was "awesome", but he didn't bring the right psychology to his move set, so nothing was that over except the powerbomb. and about goldberg-lesnar being awful: imagine it's your last day at your job, and you are getting paid your biggest pay day of the year regardless of what you do. how hard would it be to give a shit? im not saying that i condone that garbage but be realistic. hell, i prob would sneak home after 2 hours. but thats what you get for pushing guys who come from other sports instead of lifelong wrestling fans who live and breathe the business. just sayin'.

 

[Just-Dun Biased]

Goldberg was underrated. There's more to wrestling than actual workrate. Goldberg was able to get the crowd emotionally attarched to him without having to talk on the mic. Goldberg is probably what keeped WCW Nitro ahead in the ratings in 1997.

 

[The Earl]

Goldberg was over-hyped, but not over-rated. He was brought in and given his big push at a time when the WWF had finally closed the ratings gap and was starting to win the Monday Night Wars. WCW had ridden the NWO horse into the ground by then, and the reaction to Goldberg was one of the few fresh things they had going on at the time.

As far as the Goldberg chants, yes it was pretty obvious toward the end of 2000 that they were piped in, I'll give you that. When there is less than 1000 people in the arena, and half of them are comps, hearing the deafening Goldberg chant was just stupid. But the crowd reaction to him in early to mid 1998, when WCW was still selling out the world, was electric.

I maintain that Goldberg was moved up to the main event too soon. Yes he would work the 3 second squash match, but there were also the 10 minute matches he would have with Finlay. I think if he would have spent about a year or so at the US Title level, wrestling guys like Benoit,Finlay, Booker, Jericho, and Saturn, he would have been a much better wrestler than what he was. But WCW had lightning in a bottle with Goldberg, so they elevated him too soon. And it worked, for a while.

The ONLY thing that kept WCW in competition with the WWF during their resurgance in 1998 was Goldberg. Look at the few times Nitro won the ratings war in the second half of 1998. It was Goldberg in the main event.

Now, toward the end of the year, his lack of skill started to catch up with him and people tired of the streak. Until he lost to Nash, he still kept WCW competitive. Once they took Goldberg out of the main event for yet another reincarnation of the NWO in 1999, ratings plumetted and never came back up. They tried to reinsert Goldberg later that year, but the fans just werent coming anymore.

Goldberg was lightning in a bottle. For a short time, he was the biggest draw in the business.

 

[MisterRob]

I maintain that Goldberg was moved up to the main event too soon. Yes he would work the 3 second squash match, but there were also the 10 minute matches he would have with Finlay. I think if he would have spent about a year or so at the US Title level, wrestling guys like Benoit,Finlay, Booker, Jericho, and Saturn, he would have been a much better wrestler than what he was. But WCW had lightning in a bottle with Goldberg, so they elevated him too soon. And it worked, for a while.

Then there would have been no Goldberg or a Goldberg hype. The only reason Goldberg got over and became anything he was was because of those short, explosive matches that hid every negative he had and pushed him as a monster. That's it. If you take that away and give him time to wrestle and show all of his negatives, and against great wrestlers like you just mentioned, the fans would've never gotten behind him or remained there.

The very things that got Goldberg to the height he ended up were the very things that killed Goldberg because who in the world wants to see Goldberg squash a wrestler every single time he goes out there for year after year. People got bored of it and he just wasn't good enough to be anything long term, its as simple as that.

Goldberg was lightning in a bottle. For a short time, he was the biggest draw in the business.

Now I believe that's a bit of exaggeration.

 

[Haner388994]

I don't think that Goldberg was over rated. WCW just gave him the push he deserved and the crowd just ate it up. If Goldberg were to return to Wrestling, whether it was WWE or TNA, that shows ratings would definitely go up. He has such a good pop to him when he enters an arena. He just brings excitment and entertainment to the ring. In my oppinion Goldberg SHOULD return to wrestling even if it's pnly for a few months. He could come back and have the younger guys face him, have him win but, have him win in a very close fashion which would give the younger guys (J. Hardy, AJ Styles, MVP, Kennedy, Kaz, CM Punk, etc.) a BIG push in their company.

Goldberg returning to wrestling would be a great thing.

 

[The Earl]

I disagree. Goldberg was elevated to the US Title level, and worked longer matches against better wrestlers like Raven and Saturn. The fans were just as much behind him as they were for the 30 second squashes. Probably even more so, with the step up in competition. Goldberg wrestlings longer matches against better wrestlers would have only helped Goldberg in the ring.

Had the main event picture in WCW been more competitive, then Goldberg could have stayed in the mid card level longer. He would have only gotten better with more experience. However...this is WCW we're talking about, so Goldberg was elevated before he was ready.

The only main event angle in WCW at the time was the watered down NWo split. The Attitude era in WWF was starting to dominate the Monday Night Wars, and the only thing WCW had to compete with them was Goldberg.

And no, I was not exaggerating. Goldberg was the biggest draw for a SHORT while. In April of 1998, 2 weeks after Wrestlemania, Raw won the ratings war for the first time in over 2 years. The fans flocked back to the WWF in droves, thanks to the Attitude era and the Austin-McMahon angle. However, in the summer of 1998, Nitro again moved to the top of the ratings. This only lasted about a month, but what happened during that period? Goldberg beat Hogan for the title. So for about a month, Goldberg was the biggest draw in the business...even outdrawing Austin.

Was Goldberg ever a great wrestler? No. Could he work a decent match with the right opponent? Yes. Over the span of their careers, Goldberg could not even carry Austin's bags. But in the second half of 98, Goldberg and Austin were equal.

 

[awesomecactus]

goldberg was an appaling wrestler, dangerous and sloppy at best. he couldnt work for shit.
however, thats not to say his impact on the business was insignificant. imo hes the ultimate example of right gimmick, right phyical presence, right time. the reason he got over so quickly was because he looked like a beast in the early squach matches, but hey, so does umaga

 

[MisterRob]

I disagree. Goldberg was elevated to the US Title level, and worked longer matches against better wrestlers like Raven and Saturn. The fans were just as much behind him as they were for the 30 second squashes. Probably even more so, with the step up in competition. Goldberg wrestlings longer matches against better wrestlers would have only helped Goldberg in the ring.

You obviously have an altered sense of history. Goldberg's match against Raven when he won the US title was barely four minutes. You can even find it on youtube to watch it. That's not any long match by anyone's standards, because the reality is all his matches were basically squashes even if they became prolonged squashes by a few minutes. Even his match against Hogan when he won the Heavyweight championship was short; the entrances were longer then the match itself.

Once he hit that peak and he actually had to become a main event star and wrestle any kind of a match it all started to go down hill.

And no, I was not exaggerating. Goldberg was the biggest draw for a SHORT while. In April of 1998, 2 weeks after Wrestlemania, Raw won the ratings war for the first time in over 2 years. The fans flocked back to the WWF in droves, thanks to the Attitude era and the Austin-McMahon angle. However, in the summer of 1998, Nitro again moved to the top of the ratings. This only lasted about a month, but what happened during that period? Goldberg beat Hogan for the title. So for about a month, Goldberg was the biggest draw in the business...even outdrawing Austin.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Goldberg won the championship July 6th from Hogan. Here's the ratings history.

Monday Night RAW
July 6, 1998 4.0
July 13, 1998 4.7
July 20, 1998 5.0
July 27, 1998 4.9
August 3, 1998 4.9
August 10, 1998 4.5

Monday Nitro
July 6, 1998 4.8
July 13, 1998 4.5
July 20, 1998 4.7
July 27, 1998 4.7
August 3, 1998 4.2
August 10, 1998 4.6

So Goldberg's match against Hogan and his build TO the championship drew for that one night, but after he won it no one seemed to care enough to start watching Nitro over RAW.

But in the second half of 98, Goldberg and Austin were equal.

I don't agree.

 

[klunderbunker]

Goldberg was a classic example of something that could've been great, but WCW messed it up. Goldberg's rise to the top made him seem indestructable and that's exactly how he should've been booked. He beat Hogan in his home town and the place erupted just as it was supposed to. That being said, that night should have ended the NWO angle once and for all. The problem came later when the NWO reformed and took GOldberg down like he was just another guy. His offense was limited but I liked that about him. He wasn't supposed to be a technician, he was supposed to be a monster that ran through whatever was in front of him. The fans responded to him and everything was working. However, there was absolutely no depth to his character and I always thought that was his undoing. The night after he lost to Nash, the rematch would've been huge, but WCW put him in that ridiculous angle of stalking Elizabeth and made him look like an idiot crazy man. Then came the Fingerpoke which killed WCW, and Goldberg never got that spark back that he had before. Was he huge for awhile? Yes. Was he Austin? Not even close.

 

[DeadMan5000]

I don"t understand how you could say Austin and Goldberg were equal in 98. Austin all around was a better star. Goldberg was a big attraction but not as big as Austin

 

[The Earl]

I am talking about one year...actually just a few months. And no I dont have the numbers in front of me of the exact ratings in 1998, nor do I have the time to go to the trouble to pull them up. However, I'm sure if you look at the overall numbers in the second half of 1998 compared to the numbers from 99 on, WCW kept things close. And the reason the ratings were close was Goldberg. Once Goldberg was out of the main event picture, the ratings plummeted and Nitro never came close to Raw again.

I never said Goldberg and Austin were equal. Austin was the poster boy of the Attitude era that resulted in the second golden age of the WWF. Goldberg had about six months at the top. 1998 was the best year for wrestling. I was a bartender then, and we actually had the bar TVs on Raw and Nitro instead of Monday Night Football. Goldberg almost single handedly kept Nitro in the ratings war. Until that fateful night after Starcade, when a stupid stalking angle and Tony Schiavonne's Mick Foley remark killed the company for good.

And yes, his US title match against Raven was short, bad, and terribly booked. Raven had just come off 3 month fued with DDP for the title, and had to drop it to Goldberg the next night. But that match drew like hell, and got a bigger reaction at the bar than when the Saints won a playoff game.


No way he is over-rated.

 

[MisterRob]

I never said Goldberg and Austin were equal.

But in the second half of 98, Goldberg and Austin were equal.

Yes you did.

Until that fateful night after Starcade, when a stupid stalking angle and Tony Schiavonne's Mick Foley remark killed the company for good.

I don't think that's what killed WCW for good. Everything about WCW's product at the time is what killed it, as the product got worse and worse and worse and no one man was going to change that, especially not Bill Goldberg. Goldberg was overrated because WCW promoted him as their top star and built the company around him when in the end he couldn't carry the company on his shoulders and he wasn't the long term draw that they hoped, so in essence he was overrated.

 

[therockyfan316]

actually, bill goldberg and austin were pretty much equal for a short period of time. i mean its kind of opinion because its hard to say. if u look at ratings, they were close and even tho wwf/e was on top, it could have also been because of the rest of the show besides austin (altho austin was the main reason). all i know is that when i was a kid then, the two were basically equal among my friends and myself.

matter of fact, it prolly doesnt get any more equal than those two now that i think about it.